Goal Income

[boyan]

What is your Goal Income as a Dentist?

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[besqaurewithme]

hmmmmmmm $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[vishal_k32801]

if any one is in it for money, it should me close to $500, 000.

 

[aphistis]

I'm not responding to the poll. It's been said a hundred times here, but not very many people seem to get it. I hope to have enough income to support myself and my family, to give to church and charity, and save for later. Beyond that, anything anybody earns gets spent on toys and other unnecessaries; and no matter how few or many of those you have, you'll never have enough. Expecting some arbitrary income figure to validate--or even <em>help</em> validate--your existence is foolishness, whether it's $100,000 or $100,000,000.

 

[init4damoney]

Amen aphistis.

 

[besqaurewithme]

Originally posted by aphistis
I'm not responding to the poll. It's been said a hundred times here, but not very many people seem to get it. I hope to have enough income to support myself and my family, to give to church and charity, and save for later. Beyond that, anything anybody earns gets spent on toys and other unnecessaries; and no matter how few or many of those you have, you'll never have enough. Expecting some arbitrary income figure to validate--or even <em>help</em> validate--is foolishness, whether it's $100,000 or $100,000,000.

I wouldn't mind the latter

 

[ShawnOne]

Number two: "Dr Evil, since you have been frozen in space, I have converted this two bit evil organization to a world class cosmetic dentistry empire!"

Dr. Evil: "Keeeewl"

Number Two: "Last year we netted $100,000,000!"

 

[Comet208]

aphistis and others,

I think the point of the OP was to ask how much would you think or hope to earn after you are an established dentist. you may hope or try to earn as much as you want for of course different needs that everyone of us would have (family, repay loans, mortgage, food, vacation, charity, etc) but there is a max to that.

Bottom line, how much a year would make you financially happy?

Comet

 

[besqaurewithme]

If I make 150,000 a year, i would be the happiest SOB on the planet. I am sick and tired of living like a poor individual. I busted my ass in undergrad, and I guarantee you I will work hard enough for that to happen.

 

[vishal_k32801]

Originally posted by besqaurewithme
If I make 150,000 a year, i would be the happiest SOB on the planet. I am sick and tired of living like a poor individual. I busted my ass in undergrad, and I guarantee you I will work hard enough for that to happen.

No you wouldn't be happy....because as you go near that
figure, then your needs will go up...and then u will be
unhappy, then u will get caught into a vicious circle of hard
work and more money...you won't have life left...this is
human nature...You won't accept this truth now...but you will
keep on working harder and harder...thats how you got here..
I mean hard work and busting your ass...

 

[besqaurewithme]

You could be right. I don't know what lies in the future. But even if i go after more and more $$$, atleast I'll be doing something. I'll probably have a family, go on vacation, work, and enjoy my life. BTW, what is wrong with making money? And why are all you guys against it?

 

[aphistis]

Originally posted by besqaurewithme
You could be right. I don't know what lies in the future. But even if i go after more and more $$$, atleast I'll be doing something. I'll probably have a family, go on vacation, work, and enjoy my life. BTW, what is wrong with making money? And why are all you guys against it?

First, I'm not against having money. Sorry for the confrontational nature of my first post, but I'm a firm believer in working a career you enjoy for enough money to take care of yourself, and letting anything else take care of itself.

You say that working harder and concentrating on earning maximal income means you'll be able to take time off on vacations and to enjoy your life. My question to you is, when? All those extra hours are going to have to come from somewhere, and that "somewhere" is your leisure time. You can spend your adult life chasing a bigger buck, or you can be content with the VERY liveable wage you'll be earning as a dentist and take those vacations you mention.

I don't remember who said it, but he was a perceptive lad: "The root of evil is not money, but the <em>love</em> of money."

 

[aphistis]

Originally posted by Comet208
aphistis and others,

I think the point of the OP was to ask how much would you think or hope to earn after you are an established dentist. you may hope or try to earn as much as you want for of course different needs that everyone of us would have (family, repay loans, mortgage, food, vacation, charity, etc) but there is a max to that.

Bottom line, how much a year would make you financially happy?

I understand that, but happiness isn't a number in a box on a 1040. I'd like enough money to meet the needs I outlined above, whatever that number happens to be. Anything beyond that is pure gravy.

 

[Comet208]

Thanks Bil...

So, at this point, what is your estimate of that number???

 

[DcS]

Originally posted by aphistis
I understand that, but happiness isn't a number in a box on a 1040. I'd like enough money to meet the needs I outlined above, whatever that number happens to be. Anything beyond that is pure gravy.

Just because that is your estimate of satisfaction doesn't mean it has to suit everyone on this board and everyone in general. A dental student or dentist can aspire to make a certain salary without being solely interested in the finances of the profession. With the amount of debt I'm going into, I do expect to make a certain amount at a specific point in my career. It doesn't really have much to do with happiness; it's just an estimate of how much I will earn with regards of my investment into my education and career. I don't post much on these boards but I do read up and pretty much most of your posts aphistis are those that allow you to take the moral "high ground" or put other people down.

People are curious about expectation of salary. For you to bash that is not necessary. For most of us, in our 20s, the thought of making 150,000+ is a crazy thought, and one that all of us have at least once thought of. For you to put people down for considering this is ridiculous. If you don't go into practice with the idea of maximizing profit while in business, you need to do some homework. Yes, in the end most people are in it for the right reason; to treat people's teeth and make an impact in their lives. But to say that because they consider salary and future earnings makes them money grubbers you are way off base.

A lot of Dr. Jeff's posts on here are money oriented and you don't bash him for that. It's not that he's boasting about making a lot of money, it's that he seems to have a good grasp of being a good dentist and running a good business. I hope that you don't act with the same elitist attitude when you treat patients compared to when you post 5 times a day on this internet site

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

****....people really wanna make a lot of money here! Do you know what that means? well, you're gonna need to see LOTS patients, which means less patient time (going from patient to patient)....less patient care...more stress with billing......3 day work week???......HAHAHAH...good luck dreamers!

If you expect to make as much as this poll indicates, you are gonna be one stressed, burned out dentist, and wont be living the comfortable lifestyle you are envisioning.

When I once questioned the whole suicide myth with my dentist a few years back, he told me it was not true but gave me a couple of reasons why many dentists are stressed and hate their jobs and seeking money was the root of it all:

1. Many people envision a life of money as a dentist.....however, in order to get this, you must see many many patients, have many hygenists, stress out with billing, always running around, etc. He told me that people are so wrapped up about making a certain income that they will do anything to reach it.....which ultimately leads to their stress and hate towards the job. I knew one dentist that was always miserable and frustrated, because his hygenists were always unreliable, not competent, etc. Although everyone has this risk....its easier to deal with 1-2 hygenists rather than 4-5, which will be need to make a big income. Is this the same type of patient care you tell adcoms you wanna give? Gimme a break and stop lying to the adcoms!

2. On top of this, by seeing many patients,he claims many dentists become stressed because they are constantly confined to one area for many hours because they are CONSTANTLY seeing patients one after the other......however, if one would see a comfortable amount of patients, being confined to one area doesnt become a problem

Like with any other job....the key is to take it easy....if you take on a lot of work at once, obviously you are gonna go insane!

Good Luck with making $300 000 - 400 000 people!

As for me, like aphitis said, I would be more content with making $100 000 - 150 000 and living an above average life with limited toys. WIth the price of luxury is gonna come stress, so you guys can have all the toys you want, while Ill actually enjoy my job and "take it easy"!

 

[DcS]

avingupta I agree with a lot of what you said. A professor once told me the thing he hated about being out in the field was when a patient opened their mouth and he added up the cost of the work they needed. He told me how hard it is with debt from school and a house etc to see the patient as a patient and not as a means to an end.

My problem with some people is that just the mention of income or a dollar makes them tighten up and freak out. I agree that if a dentist runs his practice with a certain number in mind he will hate his job. I do, however, think it's ok to think about income and plan for it in the future. For so many people, it's "taboo" to even mention a figure. With that said, I do think some people throw numbers around without fully understanding what they represent.

What a dentist makes has a lot to do with the treament he wants to provide. Someone who is soley interested in making dough can limit his/her practice to procedures that make the most profit. I just don't understand why everyone freaks out at the mention of money. Anyone in their right mind when considering a future career, in weighing the risks versus the benefits, has to consider the income as part of the equation. Just because someone asks about income doesn't mean that is soley what they are interested in.

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

Have you ever considered the fact that some dentists employ other dentists and own large practices? a successful dentist making 400k+ is NOT unheard of.

True.....but I think this is the same thing as owning any business....and as we know, people who own big businesses are always consumed with work and dont have time for their families and the other pleasures in life.......we all know the stereotype......businessman always has work on his mind....never has time for their family.....but has a few luxury cars and a big house......it all depends on what your needs are.....if you want toys....yes, u need money, and like Ive said, can get it, but at a price.

Boys....if you get a trophy wife like many of you want, you'll have no problem living this sort of lifestyle!

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

I do think some people throw numbers around without fully understanding what they represent.

Then these people who say that they wanna make $400 000 and havent researched what it will take to achieve this are ignorant can can still dream about working 3-4 days a week and giving optimum patient care. In my opinion, they are also sad!

Just because someone asks about income doesn't mean that is soley what they are interested in

Of course.....that is obvious! However, there is a difference between me saying, "I wanna be a dentist cause I can make a good income which in mind is $150 000 so I can take care of my family and be comfortable" compared to "I wanna be a dentist to make half a million, and buy many cars and toys and still be able to have a great family life and go sailing all the time and play golf 24/7".......keep on dreaming buddy!

Of course, money is an issue to consider when choosing a job, but a huge income should not be.

 

[boyan]

Here is what I want from life:
-work 3 or 4 days a week (8h a day)
-have a nice home but not huge
-drive a nice car but not something for $120,000
-have a wife that will stay home and take care of the 2 kids
-go on a vacation for 2 weeks in the summer and winter

How do I see myself achieving this:
-become a dentist and specialize in endo / ortho / OMS or maybe perio
-have an income close to $200,000/year but not more
-STUDY MY ASS OFF FOR THE NEXT 4 YEARS (and yes I am ready to sacrifice 4 years of my life to get the above)

 

[besqaurewithme]

Originally posted by avingupta
Then these people who say that they wanna make $400 000 and havent researched what it will take to achieve this are ignorant can can still dream about working 3-4 days a week and giving optimum patient care. In my opinion, they are also sad!



Of course.....that is obvious! However, there is a difference between me saying, "I wanna be a dentist cause I can make a good income which in mind is $150 000 so I can take care of my family and be comfortable" compared to "I wanna be a dentist to make half a million, and buy many cars and toys and still be able to have a great family life and go sailing all the time and play golf 24/7".......keep on dreaming buddy!

Of course, money is an issue to consider when choosing a job, but a huge income should not be.

I think you have forgotten a little thing called "investing." Unfortunately for all those who have no clue how to invest in stocks, bonds , reits, mutual funds, etc...the main chunk of your income will come from work. But with a solid investing via the base investment of your education (i.e. dentistry), a person can easily accumulate the money he/she desires. It is the base salary that does not allow many people to invest with the kind of money that will allow for their money to grow.

 

[Zurich5]

Hey guys, lets just get it over with and say a lot, not all, but a lot of dentists go into the profession for the money and enjoy working three to four days a week. Ok, now that that is straight, I don?t think there is much to argue. Do pro-bono work if you want to, don?t if you don?t want to?just enjoy your profession either way.

Zurich5

 

[vishal_k32801]

Originally posted by besqaurewithme
I think you have forgotten a little thing called "investing." Unfortunately for all those who have no clue how to invest in stocks, bonds , reits, mutual funds, etc...the main chunk of your income will come from work. But with a solid investing via the base investment of your education (i.e. dentistry), a person can easily accumulate the money he/she desires. It is the base salary that does not allow many people to invest with the kind of money that will allow for their money to grow.

I think you have forgotten how many people lost theirs shirts and pants in last 5 years after investing in stocks and whatever...You don't have a clue brother!

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

Here is what I want from life:
-have a wife that will stay home and take care of the 2 kids

HAHAHA......no white picket fence? Stop watching Nick at Night buddy. A woman that aspires to become a housewife needs help.

Get back to the 90's....ooops.....I mean.....uh.....the 21st century!

And besquarewithme, this poll was asking how much money you want to make AS A DENTIST ONLY.....so I was noly referring to that....you can do whatever the hell you want with your money...but as Vishal pointed out, investments do not have guaranteed results.

By the way Zurich, A-ROD definitely did not deserve the MVP....everybody knows Delgado did!

 

[aphistis]

Originally posted by vishal_k32801
I think you have forgotten how many people lost theirs shirts and pants in last 5 years after investing in stocks and whatever...You don't have a clue brother!

I can't believe you're suggesting somebody not invest the money they earn. You really think one recession slump is reason to not invest your money? The stock market has a aggregate rate of return of something like 10% over the last 50 years. There's not an economist or financial planner alive who will tell you not to invest your money, and put some of your long-term savings in the stock market. But, what would they know, right?

You're perfectly welcome to stuff all your savings under your mattress; as for me, I'll be earning a comfortable long-term interest rate. One more time, just for clarification, <em>who</em> is it that doesn't have a clue?

 

[NewNameForGoogleBot]

Originally posted by avingupta
HAHAHA......no white picket fence? Stop watching Nick at Night buddy. A woman that aspires to become a housewife needs help.

Get back to the 90's....ooops.....I mean.....uh.....the 21st century!

Once again we have our socialist friend dictating to others what they should aspire to whether it's related to your income or your family. What is wrong with a woman who wants to stay home and raise kids? I guess those government subsidized babysitters do a better job than your wife can at raising her own children. A woman that aspires to become a housewife needs a commendation in this day and age where society as a whole and people like you try to tell her that it's somehow wrong to want to take care of a family. Get a life and stop pissing all over people's dreams because they don't match your communist view of how things should be.

I would think that given your previous rants you would want your wife to stay home so you can achieve the laid back lifestyle you talk about. And you always bash on "trophy wives," so a stay-at-home-mom would seem to be your thing.

Boyan is completely capable of achieving his dream and I wish him all the best.

 

[shizzleDDS]

I think that some of us that have grown up without a lot of money or those of us that have had to pay for our own education obviously want to be in a profession that makes a lot of money. Growing up, my family didn't have much money, and currently I am paying for ALL of my school, as well as many of us probably are.
Because of this I think that we all deserve to make a decent amount of money, but too much is too much. I don't want to end up as a rich tight a55 conservative with three spoiled brats all wanting there own Camero--I hated those kids in high school....come to think of it I still do. Anyways, I digress, if we do end up making a ton of money, the excess should go back to the community somehow. I don't want to come off as one of those that "is just trying to make the world a better place" (peace on earth man) its just that as public servants, a selfish attitude would be contradictory to the whole profession.

 

[Rezdawg]

Are the money figures before or after taxes?

$200,000 after taxes would be damn nice. The most important aspect of dentistry for me is being able to work 3-4 days a week. You may not make it big time in the salary department, but having time off from work is much more important than making more money than you actually need. It is the balance in lifestyle that provides someone with a very satisfying life. Dentistry is perfect for me because it can provide me with this balance. Also, working 3-4 days a week will allow me to fulfill other goals I have. For instance, a dream of mine has always been to own a restaurant or lounge. Investing in stock has also been an enjoyable experience for me. Dentistry will allow me to invest a proper amount of time in my other interests.

Also, I will work extra hard and experience criminal-like stress so that I can make some big time money and take all the SDNers to Vegas. All on me. Party in Sin City. And for all the people that will be single, I will reserve the back room of a strip club for you guys. If you are married, I will need your wife's permission.

 

[blankguy]

If you are looking to settle down and have a family, you may be forced to aim as high as possible. The living expenses are just going to rack up like crazy.(Education for kids, getting a house, etc...).

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

Once again we have our socialist friend dictating to others what they should aspire to whether it's related to your income or your family. What is wrong with a woman who wants to stay home and raise kids? I guess those government subsidized babysitters do a better job than your wife can at raising her own children. A woman that aspires to become a housewife needs a commendation in this day and age where society as a whole and people like you try to tell her that it's somehow wrong to want to take care of a family.

Sorry dude, I havent met any Suzy-homemakers in my time, except for gold diggers, and girls that adore disney cartoons and dream of being a little princess and want to make you puke.

Women today have grown up not to rely on a man, and thats the way it should be.

 

[speter33]

From somebody who's never had more than a couple thousand dollars on hand I can't even imagine what 80,000 could buy. Wow if I can make that money working 35 hours a week I'd be the happiest son of a beach. What can 200k buy me that 80k can't?

 

[Rezdawg]

Originally posted by speter33
What can 200k buy me that 80k can't?

Education for your kids.

 

[speter33]

I find it hard to believe, in fact there's a better chance your kids will be spoiled brats who won't get educated with higher income

 

[Rezdawg]

Originally posted by speter33
I find it hard to believe, in fact there's a better chance your kids will be spoiled brats who won't get educated with higher income

Thats up to you and how you raise them. Just because you make money doesnt mean your kids will be spoiled and uneducated. In fact, I have no idea where you get this correlation. You can make life a lot easier on your children if you have the funds to pay for their education. I was lucky in that way. I will never be in debt. Im also not a spoiled, uneducated brat.

 

[LestatZinnie]

Originally posted by avingupta
Sorry dude, I havent met any Suzy-homemakers in my time, except for gold diggers, and girls that adore disney cartoons and dream of being a little princess and want to make you puke.

Women today have grown up not to rely on a man, and thats the way it should be.

My girlfriend wants to be a homemaker and just work part-time to prevent being bored if I am able to bring enough cash home. I certainly agree with her because when I was young, both my parents worked very hard and I had to live with my grandmother till age 5, and even afterwards I hardly saw my dad. So my mother even encourages my gf not to work in the future if she doesn't have to. Just because you haven't met any 'Suzy-homemaker' doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

[savvysearch]

I don't want to knock anyone's dreams but some of these choices seem unrealistic. 65% want ~200K? Do you guys plan on having something on the side careerwise?

 

[FutrDDS]

Originally posted by avingupta
Sorry dude, I havent met any Suzy-homemakers in my time, except for gold diggers, and girls that adore disney cartoons and dream of being a little princess and want to make you puke.

Women today have grown up not to rely on a man, and thats the way it should be.

So you are assuming that every woman who wants to be a housewife is a gold-digger? Absolutely wrong.

Many of my girlfriends from high-school went on to college, finished, married, and many are housewives. Those that married doctors have wealthy lifestyles, but those that married men that make an average income live an average lifestyle.... you ask why? Well, according to them, nothing compares to raising their children on their own. My best friend tells me that she would rather cut coupons then miss a moment with her child. Had she been a gold-digger, then she would have only married a wealthy man.

What I am trying to say is that it all depends on your personality, your aspirations, and your priorities. I, for example, can afford to be a housewife and have my fiancee pay for everything in the future; however, that would not make me happy. I have taken a year off before dentistry school to transition my company from my own management to that of others so I can go onto what I want to do the most. My company can make more money for me than a career in dentistry.

On that note... NEVER EVER BELITTLE THE JOB OF A HOUSEWIFE--- I MEAN, NEVER!!!!!! I recently have assumed some of the roles, and it is indeed very tough. I won't even get started on how difficult it is to raise a child.

 

[LestatZinnie]

FutrDDS:
agreed....in fact i know many women who would rather go to work than doing housework because they don't like the latter. You only get to raise your children once, and I hope that I would be actively participate in that process in the future. it's just too easy to hire a nanny than to undertake the various tasks of maintaining a healthy family, imo.

 

[comatose]

folks, if you want to get rich quick, become an engineer. they'll be making about 65K/year (starting out) while we're in school for four years accumulating a six figure debt. by the time we're out of school, they will have already made about 260K, AND they will have little to no educational debt. then, if we choose to go into private practice, that's another 250K down the drain, while the engineers are still making bank. moral of the story, if you want to get rich quick, become an engineer.

 

[3rdMolarRoller]

If all you are worried about is making money and not worrying about the patient and their overall health, just start a porn site...I'm sure that will make you some big bucks fast

I have big disappointment for those going into this field that want to be millionares fast. Dentistry is a huge investment...go to dental town and you will read of dentist in debt from 500k to over a million

As stated before, doctors do not get rich from their income but get rich from what they do with their income, and that takes knowledge, time, and patience.

Most dentist that I see that have accumulated wealth have been practicing around 15 years...in that time frame you could have gotten an MBA for really cheap and worked up the corporate ladder or other business venture and made more money sooner. And don't give me that crap that the economy is bad and you can't find jobs...while I was getting my MBA and was in school I was making 50k a year

 

[aphistis]

Agree completely. If dentistry was any easier a path to fabulous riches than any other field, you can bet <em>everyone</em> would know about it.

 

[ShawnOne]

Wasnt this the same logic I used in the "Attorney turning to Dental" thread??

nobody "agreed completely" with me then.

 

[Rezdawg]

Dentistry may not make you a billionaire, but you can bet on living a very comfortable life, have the ability to go on amazing vacations, feed your dogs and cats, be able to accomodate your children's needs, buy your wife a louis vuitton purse every now and then, and enjoy NFL Sunday Ticket.

 

[Zurich5]

Originally posted by Rezdawg
Dentistry may not make you a billionaire, but you can bet on living a very comfortable life, have the ability to go on amazing vacations, feed your dogs and cats, be able to accomodate your children's needs, buy your wife a louis vuitton purse every now and then, and enjoy NFL Sunday Ticket.

Very well said Rezdawg. I like all of those perks.

 

[aphistis]

Originally posted by Rezdawg
NFL Sunday Ticket.