Going for residency after experience as pharmacist.

[Sparda29]

Been job searching, and god dammit I see all these open jobs here in NYC and LI for Clinical Coordinators at hospitals, but of course, they all require a PGY1 residency. So I'm thinking, work as a pharmacist, go to Mid-Year and apply for residencies and live off of half the pharmacists salary so that I don't get used to the money when residency time comes.

Now I'm pretty sure the reason why I only got 1/10 interview offers was because of my C+ GPA. Would this still be an issue after having experience as a pharmacist, or is it still an issue (at this point, can't do anything about it)?

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[KARM12]

Been job searching, and god dammit I see all these open jobs here in NYC and LI for Clinical Coordinators at hospitals, but of course, they all require a PGY1 residency. So I'm thinking, work as a pharmacist, go to Mid-Year and apply for residencies and live off of half the pharmacists salary so that I don't get used to the money when residency time comes.

Now I'm pretty sure the reason why I only got 1/10 interview offers was because of my C+ GPA. Would this still be an issue after having experience as a pharmacist, or is it still an issue (at this point, can't do anything about it)?

Well you certainly can't change your GPA...maybe if you did an advanced degree and did well. But yes for residency it will still count against your for interviews. I've certainly met pharmacists who worked and went back to do residency.

 

[Sparda29]

Well you certainly can't change your GPA...maybe if you did an advanced degree and did well. But yes for residency it will still count against your for interviews. I've certainly met pharmacists who worked and went back to do residency.

Ah damn. Maybe better off just working for 3 years then taking the BCPS right?

 

[hereticmnk]

Ah damn. Maybe better off just working for 3 years then taking the BCPS right?

Well you cant work in retail for 3 years and then sit on an BCPS exam for onc, critical care etc.

 

[findingforever]

Well you cant work in retail for 3 years and then sit on an BCPS exam for onc, critical care etc.

Just wanted to clarify that the BCPS certification is different from oncology (BCOP), and critical care (pending approval of this specialty in mid 2013). Others, as of now, include nutrition support, psych, nuclear pharmacy, and ambulatory care. And to answer OP's question, if you can get at least 50% of your work experience in a pharmacotherapy related setting (i.e. not traditional retail), you'll be good to sit for the BCPS. The other specializations I have mentioned have their own specific requirements.

 

[Sparda29]

Just wanted to clarify that the BCPS certification is different from oncology (BCOP), and critical care (pending approval of this specialty in mid 2013). Others, as of now, include nutrition support, psych, nuclear pharmacy, and ambulatory care. And to answer OP's question, if you can get at least 50% of your work experience in a pharmacotherapy related setting (i.e. not traditional retail), you'll be good to sit for the BCPS. The other specializations I have mentioned have their own specific requirements.

How about inpatient staff pharmacist?

One of my classmates did a project and she claims that by 2020 all pharmacists will be required to complete a residency. I just don't see how this will work. If you're gonna have 15,000 pharmacy students graduating every year, you're gonna need 15,000 residency slots if you want all pharmacists to have completed a residency. Just not feasible.

 

[mustang sally]

I am wondering the same thing. If you just work for several years in a hospital and get your BCPS, will you be held in similar regard to someone just coming out of a residency? Or are you never really going to be able to catch up?

Obviously certain positions are going to require PGY-2 or whatever but I'm talking about more general hospital positions.

I agree with you, Sparda, on the residency thing as I'm sure many others do as well. I don't see how it will ever be feasible to meet the 2020 goal.

 

[ADN1226]

I believe that ASHP wants all hospital pharmacists to be residency trained by 2020. Thats what I got from attending a talk by Paul Abramowitz, ASHP's CEO. He urged for residency programs to expand but I don't think their goal is feasible either.

For BCPS you'd have to be clinical 50% of the time as the previous poster mentioned, I don't believe staff pharmacist would be considered a clinical position to qualify for BCPS.

Check out their website: http://www.bpsweb.org/specialties/pharmacotherapy.cfm

 

[rxlea]

A staff/clinical hybrid would qualify-- especially with decentralized pharmacists. I know some pharmacists that went this route.

To answer Sparda's question, staffing for a few years won't necessarily get you a clinical position (or residency), as some institutions still require a PGY1 as a minimum requirement.

 

[Sparda29]

A staff/clinical hybrid would qualify-- especially with decentralized pharmacists. I know some pharmacists that went this route.

To answer Sparda's question, staffing for a few years won't necessarily get you a clinical position (or residency), as some institutions still require a PGY1 as a minimum requirement.

Right, but in that case, would staffing for a couple of years be enough to throw GPA out of the equation?

 

[joetrisman]

Right, but in that case, would staffing for a couple of years be enough to throw GPA out of the equation?

I'd say second degree (masters) in something that would be important to your career aspirations and get awesome grades there. Like translation research, epidemiology, MPH, or something. That would likely nullify some of your gpa troubles.

 

[cycloketocaine]

Right, but in that case, would staffing for a couple of years be enough to throw GPA out of the equation?

Are you wanting to go back for residency or get a clinical position?

I honestly don't think you'd be able to throw a sub-3.0 GPA out, unless you get another degree or something. Residencies are just becoming way too competitive.

 

[Sparda29]

I'd say second degree (masters) in something that would be important to your career aspirations and get awesome grades there. Like translation research, epidemiology, MPH, or something. That would likely nullify some of your gpa troubles.

Not gonna happen. I have way too much debt to go back for more school.

Are you wanting to go back for residency or get a clinical position?

I honestly don't think you'd be able to throw a sub-3.0 GPA out, unless you get another degree or something. Residencies are just becoming way too competitive.

Ultimately, what I want is to be a clinical specialist in ID or Cardiology while at the same time teaching at a pharmacy school. Pretty sure I'll need a residency.

 

[cycloketocaine]

Not gonna happen. I have way too much debt to go back for more school.



Ultimately, what I want is to be a clinical specialist in ID or Cardiology while at the same time teaching at a pharmacy school. Pretty sure I'll need a residency.

Yeah, those positions will take most likely a PGY2. Since GPA is a qualifier, you're going to have a hard time escaping anything <3.0. Especially when the average applicant GPA is ~3.5.

 

[BenJammin]

I believe that ASHP wants all hospital pharmacists to be residency trained by 2020. Thats what I got from attending a talk by Paul Abramowitz, ASHP's CEO. He urged for residency programs to expand but I don't think their goal is feasible either.

For BCPS you'd have to be clinical 50% of the time as the previous poster mentioned, I don't believe staff pharmacist would be considered a clinical position to qualify for BCPS.

Check out their website: http://www.bpsweb.org/specialties/pharmacotherapy.cfm

That will never happen. A pharmacist without a resident is just as qualified for a staff hospital job as a "resident" would be. Besides, what self respectingpharmacist is going to do a $30,000 a year "residency" for a job I got straight out of college?

 

[KARM12]

To be a clinical specialist...you need to have a ton of experience (i.e inthe field >10yrs...a PGY1 plus 3-5 years or PGY1 and 2 in your speciality area. BCPS does not qualify you to be a specialist.

 

[confettiflyer]

That will never happen. A pharmacist without a resident is just as qualified for a staff hospital job as a "resident" would be. Besides, what self respectingpharmacist is going to do a $30,000 a year "residency" for a job I got straight out of college?

Hmm. I'm getting paid ~$60k as a resident, most of my resident friends are in the upper 40's.

Yeah goodluck finding a staffing job in California right out of school, unless you had an "in" as an intern, PGY1 is now standard for staffing.

But to be fair you can still find staffing jobs without a residency in rural areas if that's what you're talking about.

 

[BenJammin]

Hmm. I'm getting paid ~$60k as a resident, most of my resident friends are in the upper 40's.

Yeah goodluck finding a staffing job in California right out of school, unless you had an "in" as an intern, PGY1 is now standard for staffing.

But to be fair you can still find staffing jobs without a residency in rural areas if that's what you're talking about.

I disagree. In fact, if you haven't noticed, I'm on the anti-residency bandwagon. It seems like an overrated rip off used to justify staffing of a job that most experienced pharmacists can do anyway.

I graduated with 3 other people who wanted a hospital job and we all got staffing jobs without residencies. Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Dallas, and San Antonio are not rural areas.

 

[Notecard]

I graduated with 3 other people who wanted a hospital job and we all got staffing jobs without residencies. Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Dallas, and San Antonio are not rural areas.

Do you honestly think that this is going to be possible after the next several years?

That's a serious question. I'm not saying residencies are absolutely necessary but with how many residency trained pharmacists there will be it doesn't seem likely that a new grad would get hired over the pharmacist with a residency.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I disagree. In fact, if you haven't noticed, I'm on the anti-residency bandwagon. It seems like an overrated rip off used to justify staffing of a job that most experienced pharmacists can do anyway.

I graduated with 3 other people who wanted a hospital job and we all got staffing jobs without residencies. Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Dallas, and San Antonio are not rural areas.

At the risk of provoking one of your tantrums, this really sounds like sour grapes. You'd be a resident right now if you'd matched. And I'm not sure you can credibly disagree with confetti about the California job market.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Do you honestly think that this is going to be possible after the next several years?

That's a serious question. I'm not saying residencies are absolutely necessary but with how many residency trained pharmacists there will be it doesn't seem likely that a new grad would get hired over the pharmacist with a residency.

I think we're already seeing this happen. In certain parts of the country, residency is the standard for hospital staffing. There will always be exceptions, but I think with the next decade or so, most hospital jobs will be held by residency trained pharmacists.

 

[BenJammin]

At the risk of provoking one of your tantrums, this really sounds like sour grapes. You'd be a resident right now if you'd matched. And I'm not sure you can credibly disagree with confetti about the California job market.

Sour grapes? I'm a staff pharmacist at a hospital and I don't have a residency. I may be angry that I didn't match but I got that job that I wanted without the residency that I wanted which was supposed to lead me to this job in the first place. Trust me, I'm not angry about making more than $30,000 this year I don't live in California so I cannot respond to that statement. I can only speak for my area.

 

[confettiflyer]

I disagree. In fact, if you haven't noticed, I'm on the anti-residency bandwagon. It seems like an overrated rip off used to justify staffing of a job that most experienced pharmacists can do anyway.

I graduated with 3 other people who wanted a hospital job and we all got staffing jobs without residencies. Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Dallas, and San Antonio are not rural areas.

I was kind of anti-residency until I actually matched...I'd probably be on the anti-residency bandwagon had I not matched. I gave up a 50/50 clinical-staffing job offer to do residency though...but it was on the east coast, and I hate the east coast as much as I hate wet socks.

And when I mean rural, it's relative/from a west-east coasters perspective. Everything is rural outside of NYC/DC, Chicago, SF, Los Angeles, and Seattle. Actually, hell, I'd consider seattle more suburban than urban.

 

[clachan3]

Anybody else thinking about going for residency after practicing for a few years? I was stuck with retail when I first graduated. Most hospitals in my area didn't hire any non-citizen graduates for some reason. After a few years of working retail, I honestly feel my intelligence is vanishing. Yes, I feel very stupid. I went to pharmacy school to do a tech's job with a pharmacist license.

I don't know, residency seems like my only way to get out of retail. None of the hospitals in my area are hiring anyone without PGY1. How do you even get into a residency when you obviously don't remember everything you learned five years ago? How do you compete with new grads full of energy and enthusiasm? I think I'll soon be going down the road of being unemployed. I need your advice...

 

[confettiflyer]

Every retail-pharm-turned-inspired-residency-applicant > 2yrs in retail seriously tanked our application process. TANKED.

Great personalities and people skills though, but damn....that experiment/hope ended quick.

Keep that in mind for those thinking of doing it. You really can't do much short of taking per-diem overnight/traveler positions in places that can't attract any pharmacists period. That's your foot in the door for hospital.

But even now, our "less desirable" areas in california are starting to get gutsy and put "residency highly preferred" in their job listings, don't know how successful they are at the moment.

 

[Dalteparin]

It may depend on the reason a person didn't do a residency. Two of my classmates did not do residencies immediately after graduation but applied later. Out of respect for these individuals' privacy, I will not post any of their personal info (GPA, work experience, extracurriculars) on the forum.

Person A applied for residencies but didn't match, so they spent a year in retail. Person A tried again the following year, and matched.

Person B didn't apply for residencies due to a family situation. When the next application cycle rolled around, Person B's situation had improved and they applied for residencies, and matched.

On the other hand, at my hospital we've had several applicants who've been out of school for a few years who didn't do residencies because (as far as we could tell) they just didn't feel like it. We didn't rank these people.

 

[PracticalPharmD]

I am not a big proponent of residencies either. The experience is highly over-rated and lots of pharmacists that were residency-trained are without positions. I try to have more than one practice site just in case one position gets funding cut/eliminated plus it really makes a more diverse and interesting career - lots of non-traditional pharmacy positions out there.

 

[PracticalPharmD]

Go for it! You'll never know what can happen until you try! You have experience that new graduates do not have which is a huge plus. If not already, start living as far below your financial means as possible as a cash savings cushion for when you GET that residency. Start by checking residency websites, find a mentor at a nearby pharmacy school or one of your old professors.

I didn't even start undergrad until I was 45 years old and graduated as Pharm.D. when I was 53! It's never too late to act on dreams or goals.