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Going to pharmacy school will be the worse financial choice of your life

Discussion in 'Pre-Pharmacy' started by Humble Sloth, Oct 10, 2016.

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How do you feel about the incoming 2020 burting of the pharmacy employment bubble

Poll closed Oct 10, 2017.
  1. I will sadly work as a pharmacist for less than 50,000 USD if i am lucky enough to find work.

    16 vote(s)
    45.7%
  2. I will be unemployed but at least i will be a 'doctor'

    10 vote(s)
    28.6%
  3. I will change majors avoiding financial ruin

    9 vote(s)
    25.7%
  1. Humble Sloth

    Humble Sloth Planning my financial survival
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    The supply of pharmacists is growing significantly faster than was previously projected. The total active pharmacist supply is projected to grow from 226,000 in 2004 (the base year for the projection model) to 305,000 by 2020 and 368,000 by 2030. The number of full time equivalent (FTE) pharmacists is projected to grow from 191,200 in 2004 to 260,000 by 2020 and 319,000 by 2030. These projections are higher than those in the HRSA 2000 report and primarily result from updated retirement patterns, the opening of new pharmacy programs, and increased enrollment at existing programs. o The number of colleges and schools of pharmacy with accredited professional degree programs rose from 82 in 2000 to 92 by 2005. The American Association of Colleges of Pharmacy predicts that 103 programs will be open by Fall 2007 and 110 by Fall 2010. Meanwhile the number of positions available in 2020 is expected to be less than 270,000 leaving an expected short fall of 35,000 pharmacist positions. This shortfall will increase significantly starting in 2020.
     
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  3. stoichiometrist

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    I will fill in Choice #4: pharmacy will be great in the next 10 years. We will become real doctors as we get prescriber status. If someone tells you that pharmacy is saturated, just deny, deny, deny, don't let them scare you!
     
  4. CetiAlphaFive

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    This thread is pathetic.

    Mods?
     
  5. hye345

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    Hmm, at least once our pharmacy licenses expire, we can work as technicians! Everyone knows that's where the real money is, right? :laugh:
     
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  6. Buk Lau

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    Why do you care so much about other people and the career they choose? If you're such a bitter person maybe you're not cut out for this job and should find another career.
     
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  7. iamwhatichoosetobecome

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    Thank you!!!!!!!!
     
  8. kdbaker17

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    Honestly, you're a jerk. You waste your time commenting on so many threads about how "pharmacy is soooooooooooooooo saturated. No one will get a job" No one wants your opinion. It doesn't have a solid foundation, because the pharmacy field itself is expanding, plus healthcare is booming in America. So you can just take your negative opinion, and leave the Student Doctor Pre-pharmacy thread.
     
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  9. RoadRageR

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    are you still a pharmacy student? or have you graduated? care to share your personal experiences with saturation?
     
  10. CetiAlphaFive

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    I graduated in 2013, and every doom-sayer I've ever met has been a terrible pharmacist panicking about their future.

    It's not that bad, even in Austin.
     
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  11. stoichiometrist

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    With all the pharmacy schools that continue to open and stagnant or even negative growth of the profession, pharmacy is a terrible investment. The profession is expected to grow at a rate of about 910 per year in the entire United States over the next 10 years. Approximately 15,000 students graduate from pharmacy school each year. You risk graduating with $200k+ in loans and 4 years down the drain with no job, or a per diem one at best.

    There are other professions, i.e. computer programming, finance, accounting, engineering, etc. that provide a better quality of life and pay and less loans and 4 years of additional schooling.
     
  12. RoadRageR

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    Yes, i understand this. I have seen you post this verbatim in many threads. I am asking about your personal experiences with difficulties finding employment in pharmacy. Care to share?
     
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  13. drkprstr

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    Imagine consistently trolling these forums talking about how bad the profession is almost weekly. Can't relate. But seriously, it's obnoxious to get on here to see everyone's questions and acceptances and then you guys are CONSTANTLY posting the same thing about how "bad" the pharmacy profession currently is. Just stop.
     
  14. Humble Sloth

    Humble Sloth Planning my financial survival
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    Yes! Censor the truth and free thinking and independent analysis in order to trick young febile minds into entering a unrealistic occupation.

    MODS please censor my realistic opinion.
     
  15. Humble Sloth

    Humble Sloth Planning my financial survival
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    Yes I forgot about healthcare booming, MTM and how provider status is right around the corner for Pharmacists! NPs and PAs are sure to let up the great ground they have gained in the last year to leave enough money for pharmacists!

    REALITY IS
    In 2016 more prescription processing and dispensing is being handled by:
    -Pharmacy techs
    -Mail-order companies
    -Machines
     
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  17. Humble Sloth

    Humble Sloth Planning my financial survival
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    Yeah but these occupations require a much higher IQ than pharmacy. The pharmD programs are literally letting anyone with a pulse in.
     
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  18. Humble Sloth

    Humble Sloth Planning my financial survival
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    we are trying to help you avoid the same massive life mistakes we did.
     
  19. kdbaker17

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    Are you a certified pharmacist? Do you hold a position as a pharmacist? If so, where?
     
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  20. Buk Lau

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    So how does there being a reported surplus of pharmacists with increased debt affect you?
     
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  21. Buk Lau

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    Pharmacy isn't a mistake for me. I'm sorry you are not satisfied with your career. By the way, did you know there are plenty of other professions (Engineering, Computer Science) that will give you an easier lifestyle with no need for 4 extra years of schooling? It's never too late to change your career path.
     
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  22. Humble Sloth

    Humble Sloth Planning my financial survival
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    engineering and CS require a much higher IQ than i have. I actually already have an engineering degree and a pharmD. I agree pharmD is much more worthless and much easier to obtain.
     
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  23. stoichiometrist

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    This wasn't the case 10 years before when PharmDs programs actually required a high GPA (3.5+), excellent LORs, extracurricular activities, work experience, etc. Now just about anyone can get into a program as long as they're willing to sign away $200k+ in loans. Those who think that there is still a shortage are 10 years behind.
     
  24. hye345

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    It depends on which location your talking about. I've heard nightmare stories about the East Coast. Where I'm at however (northern CA), we are starving for people. Pay ranges from 65/hour for new grads to 90/hour for experienced PIC in especially hard-to-staff area.
     
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  25. Amicable Angora

    Amicable Angora Lagomorpha

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    It's painfully obvious that some of you have never worked a day in your life in a real pharmacy (sorry kids IPPE and shadowing doesn't count). Over saturation is everywhere and it's even creeping into academia as well. You have subpar PGY1 programs that are starting to get 20, 30+ applicants per seat, driven by waves of fraudulent, wannabe pharmacists to be, that entered school terrified of retail.

    I would not recommend pharmacy to anyone, not for at least another 15 years after everything has gone to @:"44 and half of the schools have closed.

    Even then, it's probably a waste of time as half of the new emerging roles and duties are bs and a waste of time (I'm looking at you MTM)
     
  26. CMUchicka

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    Where at in northern CA? I always heard that CA market sucks..
     
  27. CetiAlphaFive

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    Ding ding ding!!

    Here's the true motive for these threads everyone.
    These two are attempting to project their insecurities and fears onto others.

    However, it's obvious that their motivations aren't altruistic.
    I said it's pathetic because it is.
    You're trying to scare away future competition.

    You're not a lighthouse warning ships away from rocks.
    You're a rat trying to protect your cheese.

    Get good.
     
  28. Humble Sloth

    Humble Sloth Planning my financial survival
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    The MTM joke was mainly in 2002-2009. Since 2009 they have been pushing the "provider status" as the golden panacea for all pharmacy occupation woes.
     
  29. Humble Sloth

    Humble Sloth Planning my financial survival
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    Even your logics fails. If there wasn't hypersaturation why would we even need to "scare away future competition."

    Wouldn't there be plenty of jobs for everyone?

    Checkmate.
     
  30. Hohohee1

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    #28 Hohohee1, Oct 13, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016
  31. hye345

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    Parts of it probably does. I'm talking the area starting an hour or so north of Sacramento, and going all the way up to Oregon border. The new PIC at my store was part-time PIC at Redding, had only graduated 2 years ago; said he made $80/hour regular pay there. I also know of some people who got hired in the Bay area for 60-65 an hour, but not sure if they got lucky, or if there is still need in select areas down there.
     
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  32. Pharmd = Phake Doctor

    Pharmd = Phake Doctor Phorum Hedonist

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    LOL at all the pharmacy students attacking the pharmacists. I wonder who has more experience to give advice?

    Also, if you're gonna trash talk the advice people give you, then you need to follow the following commandments...
    • If you claim you have a PASSION™ for pharmacy, you cannot complain when you have to take a night job in the middle of Trump country. If you are truly "passionate" about a career, then you will do anything to attain it. Artists who work odd jobs to enable their artistic passions are passionate, whiny pharmacists who cannot fathom living outside California are not.
    • If you do a residency, then CONFIDENCE™ cannot be the only thing you get out of it. I keep on seeing people defend residency on these forums, and I always see two points used to defend it. The first point is that it's a requirement for tighter job markets (ie California). That is valid, especially if it does get you the job you wanted. The second point is that it builds confidence. Confidence is something you gain over time as you become familiar with your work. If you do a residency and you cannot land the job you were trained for, then you were better off not even doing it. I'll take three months of on-the-job training at full wages over residency without job prospects.
    • If you fail out of pharmacy school, you cannot complain that you could have done medical school instead. If you can't handle the snail's pace that is pharmacy school, then you're gonna get slaughtered at med school. Don't believe me??? Talk to your professors. The same professors who taught you pharmacology and biochemistry teach the med students. Having to learn biochemistry over two semesters is long, boring, and drawn out. But tackling the same subject in four weeks sounds like hell. Do the math.
    • If you graduate pharmacy school with 200K+ loans, you have [email protected]#$ed yourself and cannot blame anyone else. Financial literacy is a must kiddos. Go to the cheapest option available (ie the state flagship university). Any loans you take out is your responsibility to bear. The federal government doesn't care a bit about the unemployed or underemployed law grads who are drowning in debt, so they won't care about you if you end up in the same situation. Be vigilant about your finances.
    • If you graduate pharmacy school and realize that what you've always wanted to do was direct patient care, then you have to go to nursing school or medical school or shut up. No one cares that you didn't research the healthcare professions enough to discern pharmacy from nursing or medicine. There are people out there who actually like being pharmacists. But you may not. Don't make the mistake of attributing aspects of nursing or medicine to pharmacy. Here's an easy example: Doctors, APRNs, and PAs can prescribe; Pharmacists cannot. That's an important distinction to know.
     
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  33. Humble Sloth

    Humble Sloth Planning my financial survival
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    You are a wordsmith!
     
  34. CMUchicka

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    Cool, thanks for that info.. I heard last year there was need of people in central california? I keep hearing from people how CA market is super saturated, i guess they might be talking about LA and its surrounding. And wow, its surprising places like SF is in need of people..
     
  35. Humble Sloth

    Humble Sloth Planning my financial survival
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    The golden days of pharmacy are long gone. I have been watching youtube videos on how to operate a deep fryer incase I have to get a second job at mcHell in order to afford to pay my student loans.
     
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  36. Humble Sloth

    Humble Sloth Planning my financial survival
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    The issues with working in SF is the salaries don't keep up with the cost of living. I would guess the average pharmD in SF earns around 45,000 -55,000 after taxes and CoL.
     
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  37. ldiot

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    Even my professors and the president of my university openly state that pharmacy has reached the saturation point and the market is getting worse. Meanwhile new schools are opening and existing schools are maintaining/increasing class size. Tuition is increasing. Reimbursement is falling and retail chains are consolidating and cutting staff. Residency has become a requirement to get a hospital job, which pays even less than retail. The healthcare industry as a whole faces political pressure as costs are rising. Automation and central fill also threaten retail pharmacies and the market share of independent pharmacies is shrinking every year.

    Pharmacists can do all the clinical stuff they want but it won't create a single job until insurance companies pay them for it, and even then a NP will do the job for less.
     
    #35 ldiot, Nov 13, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016
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  38. exiangwsu

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    NOPE pharmacist in cali make around 120000 to 150000......
     
  39. CetiAlphaFive

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    I think you missed his point.

    Even if you're making a net of $3,300 - $3,700 per pay period, that's not that much if your rent is around $4k for a small apartment.
     
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  40. Humble Sloth

    Humble Sloth Planning my financial survival
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    My point exactly. I don't think exiangwsu knew that CoL = cost of living. They prob still live at home with parents.
     
  41. stoichiometrist

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    SF pharmacist salary minus taxes minus astronomical student loan payments minus astronomical cost of living leaves you with not very much remaining.

    If you really desire to live in SF then it's a no-brainer to skip pharmacy school and just go to a coding bootcamp or study computer science after which you can earn far more than a pharmacist can without the $200k+ in loans and 4 years of lost earnings opportunity cost.

    Sent from my SM-N910V using SDN mobile
     
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  42. stoichiometrist

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    Let's say you earn the high end of $150k and pay $3k/month in rent.

    $150,000
    -$50000 in taxes (CA + federal)
    ---------------------------------------------
    $100,000

    $100,000
    -$25,000 in student loan payments
    ---------------------------------------------
    $75,000

    $75000
    -$36,000 ($3000/month) in rent
    ---------------------------------------------
    $39,000/year ($3250/month) remaining
     
  43. Humble Sloth

    Humble Sloth Planning my financial survival
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    you also have to factor in the SIX years of LOST WAGES while you were in school.Say that is 40k*6 = $240,000 should be added to your debt because you got that debt by being in school instead of working
     
  44. stoichiometrist

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    Let's say you come out of a coding bootcamp straight out of high school and earn $75k/year. You take out $10k in loans and spend 4 months in the program.

    $75,000
    -$25,000 in taxes
    ------------------------------------------
    $50,000 after taxes

    Multiply that by 6-8 years, and you will have had a $500-800k head start compared to the pharmacy grad with $200k+ in loans and spent that 6-8 years in school. I haven't mentioned yet that the sky is the limit when it comes to software engineer salaries. Even in less expensive cities, it's very easy to break $100k/year with experience - the same 6-8 years of experience that could have been spent in pharmacy school racking up loans.
     
  45. BMBiology

    BMBiology temporarily banned~!

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    I don't know why you keep on posting the same crap over and over again.

    Why don't YOU become a software engineer?

    Let's also be frank here. Half of the pharmacy students have a hard time doing pharmacy calculation....I am taking about 8th grade math here.




    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
     
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  46. Humble Sloth

    Humble Sloth Planning my financial survival
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    so 200k + 800k pharmacy school basically ends up being a $1,000,000.00 dollar mistake for most people.
     
  47. Humble Sloth

    Humble Sloth Planning my financial survival
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    exactly. pharmacists can't even handle pharmacy calculations let alone writing an recursive algorithm
     
  48. Wow! I didn't know that hospital job pays less than retail.
    Is it always true? Or just in some cases?
     
  49. I love this thread and its discussion!
    Thanks !!!
     
  50. Rxed 1996

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    Telling pre-pharm kids to do software engineering/computer science/engineering as a way to save themselves from making some mistake...when they can't even prove themselves as examples of their own advice. If anything, aren't you trolls handicapping yourselves from your own success? Why not find a new job or change careers rather than complaining on the SDN forum every few days? Hypocrites, I say.
    There are people in those fields who are miserable and there are people in pharmacy who are miserable. Let them figure it out.
     
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  51. Spillmax

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    The landscape has definitely changed a bit, but there's plenty of openings, especially if you're competent. Personally, I've worked with some that don't know how to use a computer or fax machine.
     
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  52. APN-59 rph

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    My problem is that I forget how to run the cash register and sometimes ring up candy under RX.....Pretty fast at shoveling snow out of the drive up too....
     

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