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Good GPA, bad DATs. Any chance?

Discussion in 'Pre-Dental' started by vhinrich, Jun 1, 2008.

  1. vhinrich

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    I have 3.6 overall, 3.7 sci GPA. I'm planning on taking DATs next month. I'm not confident that I'll do any better than 17 or 18 overall. It's long story but I won't have enough time to study for DATs b/c of cancer treatments of a family member. I took a practice exam and scored a 14. Let's say I got 16 on DATs, would I be able to get into any dental schools? I know my GPA is descent but if my DAT scores are low, I'm afraid they'll reject me? What do you think? Any suggestions?
     
  2. doc3232

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    If you have a 3.7 sci gpa then a high DAT score is expected.
     
  3. rkamsterdam

    rkamsterdam Old Member
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    i dont think gpa's and dat scores correlate very well.

    Practice test scores can be very misleading and usually are. Practice tests are created to expose your weaknesses. With that said, focus on the problems you missed and study these areas very closely. you have until late august to study and still stay competitive in the app cycle. Thats three months to try and bust your butt. just stay focused. You never know what your gonna score unless you try.
     
  4. mantraman1010

    mantraman1010 Member
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    I'm afraid you would have to have some killer EC's or something that would make up for lower scores, I have a pretty high GPA and had an average DAT score and couldn't make the cut. Trust me, DAT is THE MAIN FACTOR, I speak from experience. A low GPA can be compensated with a high DAT, but it is less likely that a high GPA can compensate for a low DAT. That is what I have observed going through a full application cycle, there are exceptions, but the chances remain minimal. Try hard and score high. I know I am gonna try. Good luck to you.
     
  5. jigabodo

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    Even with a 3.7, a 16 probably still won't get you anymore.

    an 18 or 19 is probably a safer score.
     
  6. doc3232

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    Please explain.
    If you are getting A's in your science classes then you must be doing something right, why would you not do well on your DAT which has 3 science sections?
     
  7. rkamsterdam

    rkamsterdam Old Member
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    you and i both know that there are limitless examples of low 3.0ers who ace the dats. As you know, acquiring a good grade in a course-a semester long affair-requires a completely different skill set than taking a 4 hr long exam. Its not just a matter of knowing the material. So No, just because the OP has a high gpa does not pre-destine (by way of some divine law) him/her to a high dat score. Just look at the OP's practice test scores.
     
  8. vhinrich

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    I did well in class because I had all the time in the world. For DATs, it's basically everything I learned in the past 4 years on one exam. Plus, during classes, it's only one subject you focus on. On DATs, everything comes together so need to take some time to refresh everything you learned and memorize it. I'm in deep s**t because I only have one month to study everything and on top of that, a week later after my DATs, I'm taking MCATs so I also have to study physics and work on my writing in a month. Any advice on how to improve my score? BTW, I heard Meharry and Howard accept people with pretty low DATs. I don't know if they'll accept someone with 16.
     
  9. rkamsterdam

    rkamsterdam Old Member
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    hahaha, you just completely ruined this thread with that post.
     
  10. Bruinlove

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    Those two schools are mainly for minorities. If you are African American or Native Indian, you may have shot.
     
  11. vhinrich

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    What if I'm asian? Asians are minorities. BTW how can they tell if you're Native american or African american? I can just lie on an application stating I'm native american/african american. What measures do they take to find out?
     
  12. doc3232

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    Ok, I agree there are some exceptions, but I am just trying to point out that some people go to schools that give out grades. 3.0ers sometimes go to tough schools and get 22+s even though they didn't study much. For the average Pre-dent, if you go to my school and have a 3.7+ (not that I do), there is no way you are getting anything less than a 22.

    hahaha, he completely ruined it.
     
  13. doc3232

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    Ya sure go ahead and do it. When you get to the interview and they see your asian, then tell me their reaction. Asians are OVER-represented. Not being racist, but it is a fact and just look at their DAT scores. About 1-2 point above the average. Nonetheless, Asians do not have a disadvantage when applying.
     
  14. Bruinlove

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    Uh-oh. Be careful here. Firstly, Asians are not minorities. We asians (I'm Korean) make up about 25~40% of student body of top tier dental schools. Secondly, dental school adcom people are not stupid. They won't get fooled, or they will find out sooner or later.
     
  15. dentstd

    dentstd Fena Gonzales
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    It's not uncommon to get 18-19 on practice tests and 22 on the real thing. Take the test first.
     
  16. SHC1984

    SHC1984 Membership Revoked
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    People can easily tell where you are from by your last name...
    Anyways why are you taking the MCAT and DAT?
     
  17. trixie2126

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    #17 trixie2126, Jun 1, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2008
  18. TeamGuo

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    omg taking mcat right after DAT.... you totally ruined the thread...

    stick with one profession.

    and you can always take the DAT a little later in the summer, you are not required to take it a month from now on. There's no RULE!

    If you are running out of time just take few more weeks to study.
     
  19. gkhan

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    gettings a's in science and college really is a poor indicator of intelligence.
    it shows other things like organization, dedication, studying skills, etc.

    i know a lot of 3.5-4.0's that are dumb as a rock.

    my pre-health advisor also said that standardized scores are considered more valid because gpa's can be so variable depending on the school, major, etc.
    but for GRE/dat/etc you have x amount of time on X day.
     
  20. jigabodo

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    Interviews.
     
  21. Stillmaticbeat

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    so is 18 the lowest dat score this guy can afford to get /w his high gpa?
     
  22. MnBr63

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    Wow...a couple things going on in this thread.

    The reason there are standardized tests for admissions is so that it levels the playing field for people from different institutions. I've always said, there are plenty of people with 2.8s from some schools that know leaps and bounds more in a subject than someone with a 3.8 from another school.

    red flag right there. aside the fact that it is highly unethical to lie on an application, race is also noted on several other documents you submit with your application like (for some) transcripts. you also have to submit a picture and go to an interview. In order to apply as a native american you have to also be enrolled in either a federally recognized or state recognized tribe. Depending on the tribe there are different restrictions for members. Most require ancestors to have signed government roles.


    ...a week later after my DATs, I'm taking MCATs so I also have to study physics and work on my writing in a month.

    I won't :beat: here...I'm sure you're beginning to understand from other people on here the disdain that exists for people that see dental as a "back up" for not getting into med school.
     
  23. airsimon

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    You'd be good with an 18. Possibly a 17. (I got in with an 18)
     
  24. vhinrich

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    I'm not considering dental as a back up plan. My first preference is dental school but if I don't make it then at least I can go into medical school if I do descent on MCATs. I don't mean to look down on any field of study but I can't afford to not get into any health related professional school.
     
  25. vhinrich

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    The only reason I'm taking DATs sooner than later is because I want to try for early decision. I think I have better chance of getting in that way than traditional way.
     
  26. Bruinlove

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    This statement makes me laugh.
    Now I understand why you got 14 on practice DAT and why you would lie about your ethnicity.

    I predict,

    1) Lakers win in 5,

    2) and OP won't get much love from either dental or medical schools.
     
  27. trixie2126

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    #27 trixie2126, Jun 2, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2008
  28. TeamGuo

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    What you are saying doesn't make any sense since if you want to get in with an early decision your DAT should be phenomenal. But you said you are predicting your score to be low... hmm...
     
  29. hannah999

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    I don't think you have a good chance. I have a pretty high GPA as well (3.6) and have a strong overall application but my DAT scores were 17/18's...I was told my DAT scores did not correlate with my grades.
     
  30. Montserrat

    Montserrat Proud of my Pats
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    I was told the same, except the situation was switched - it was my GPA that was le suck.

    Just from talking with fellow applicants, a 18-19 is a much safer score, assuming you score an 18 or 19 across the sections. A 16 or 17 in a science section leaves question marks.

    Don't take the DAT if you aren't ready - even if you do choose to retake the DAT down the road, they will still see your old score because it's all on the same printout. You don't want to be in a situation where you do badly, and THEN have to explain why. Reschedule it for a time that is more conducive, and apply late. That way, you won't hurt your chances to be admitted later on if the current application cycle doesn't pan out.
     
  31. jigabodo

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    Celtics in 6.

    (Sorry, I just have to do this!)
     
  32. Montserrat

    Montserrat Proud of my Pats
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    [​IMG]
     
  33. AlcoHulk

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    They don't but you'd be a pretty big jerk to do so. Alot of us are asians and I don't think that really matters. Cruel world, America is.
     
  34. Prepharm1214

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    The fact minorities are given any special pathways to easier acceptances is bull in my opinion anyway. Would be nice if everyone were graded on the same criteria, but then again i'm a white male.
     
  35. Mpr823

    Mpr823 Mpr823

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    Well, I am trying to understand my chances here as well.. (Im gonna be another first time poster posting my scores...)
    I have a great overall GPA of 3.9 and a science GPA of 3.85, but my dat scores were average (except for PAT).
    AA 18
    TS 19
    PAT 21
    GC 19
    Bio 19
    OC 18
    RC 19
    QR 17

    I submitted June 11th to 12 schools. From experienced applicants, it seems as if I barely made the general cutoff for low dat/high gpa acceptance. Any thoughts?
     
  36. Andrew324

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    I hope thats enough :) I have a slightly lower GPA 3.84 and am thinking ill get about the same scores, I submitted in mid-June except my DAT, soooo we are pretty even, You are my direct competition! Will probably come down to the extras we both did. But I wish you luck and I hope your scores will be enough!
     
  37. ucla2134

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    i just do not understand how can people get such a high score on science GPA an poor score on DAT science section.
     
  38. Simiam

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    Asians aren't a minority in D School... Go ahead and lie about it though... That would show the Dental Schools what an upstanding person you are, I mean dentistry isn't based on ethics, right?

    Yeah, like when you show up for interviews... It's kind of hard to fake your ethnicity haha unless you are james bond

    :confused:This coming from a guy with a Patriots Avatar. :luck:Go Celtics!:luck:Hypocrit!:smuggrin:
     
  39. americanpierg

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    ditto. Something just doesnt seem right when a 3.7 student cant get at least a 18 across the board on the DAT. Easy school? Easy classes? Very forgiving curves? Yup.
     
  40. ttom

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    It's possible, easily! Like the OP said, family member had cancer so he couldn't concentrate. Lack of study time, lack of practice, poor preparation, lack of test experience, etc...can lead to lower DAT score.
     
  41. Aceofspades

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    The bad thing about the high GPA/low DAT, besides the above, is that people may suspect that the student had an advantage through college (old exams from older students, cliques, connections, money, cheating, etc). With the DAT it is very hard to cheat and/or gain an unfair advantage.

    However, most people with that combo (depending on how low the DAT) can get into a school as long as they aren't too picky.


    Edit:
    To be fair, the bad thing about a low GPA/high DAT combo is that people may view you as smart, but lazy. In addition, the DAT is a temporary exam only used to get into dental school whereas GPA follows you around for life. You can also retake the DAT and get a higher score without any questions, but GPA is impossible to improve in such a fashion because it is weighted and no grade is ever forgiven. Personally I would pick the high GPA/low DAT any day.
     
    #41 Aceofspades, Jun 30, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2008
  42. lphiewok

    lphiewok ACFAS Member
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    to OP, if you're thinking about applying to both Dental and Medical schools, i have heard from people that it probably is not a good idea. First, they can sometimes figure out where you're applying to (for example, in Texas you have to list everywhere you're applying to, including names of dental schools and medical schools) and some dental schools share the facility with medical schools and they can share the information, and that makes you look very undetermined of what you really want to do. That's why it's important to shadow dentist / doctors and figure out what you really want to do, instead of getting into somewhere and stick with whatever because you did not get into another.

    Your GPA is very good but low DAT will definately lower your chances so you should really spend your time studying for it instead of trying to apply early.
    Your GPA is high enough so take some more time and study thoroughly and make 19s and above and you'll be much more confident and you probably would not need to apply to medical schools as back-up (like you said). With your GPA, you probably do not need to have early interview so take your time and study for DAT.

    Asians are definately not minorities, I don't know why people are keep asking this stupid question. Do you really feel that you are being underrepresented? Asians compose the lowest percentage of American popluation but makes the highest average salary and ratio of people in health field is also highest to the population.
    I am Asian myself but we are definately not underrepresented minorities. minority status is for those people who could not get all the benefits that other people might have received (such as Asian people with crazy parents) so stop crying and try to beat it fair
     
  43. mshUofI

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    I agree with the first reply in that if you have a high GPA, they will be expecting good DAT scores since that is the standard comparison tool. If you do not perform well on the DAT, then it will question the credibility of your grades and the institution you attended to get them. Anyone can get high grades if they go to the right school, but not everyone can get high DAT scores! I understand your situation is difficult, but I would make sure to mention it to dental schools if things don't go the way you'd like on the DAT -they can only give so much empathy though and too low of scores isn't it. My brother was in the hospital the week I had to take the DAT, but I had to block him out - it was difficult, and yes it was selfish, but I'm sure your loved ones will understand and they will want the best for you - which means at least committing some time to studying (I studied at the hospital). Consider pushing the DAT back a little (no later than mid September) to prepare more for it. Good luck!
     
  44. xiphoidprocess

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    If asians are not minority, does that mean arabs aren't either?
     
  45. murff05

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    Cramming works! Thats what I am doing :D
     
  46. slick90210

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    Technically, we are asian :p
     
  47. mshUofI

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    I hate to break it to you but if you are from the middle-east you are considered Caucasian. I have been told this by many admissions staff.
     
  48. slick90210

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    LOL! Are you serious?
     
  49. polarmolar

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    I am Arabic (Egyptian) and have been told I could fill out Caucasian, African American, and the classic "other" by many different people lol.
     
  50. slick90210

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    haha African American it is! Meharry and Howard here I come!!!!
     

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