good $ in peds?

[jackjinju]

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Hi,

I'm a third-year basically trying to figure things out...I have a family, and will be the sole bread-winner, plus I will have >$200K in debt from school. I justfinished talking with my Dean who is a former pediatrician, and he said the job market is good right now, and that general pediatricians are starting >100K, and 5 years in are getting $180-$200 if they ha ve a decent practice. Is this possible? What about the peds subspecialties?

Can anyone help with anecdotal tales?

Thanks!

 

[dr.evil]

If you're asking whether it's possible to make $180-200k/year as a pediatrician, the answer is yes. Do most pediatricians make that much money? The answer is probably not. I do know a pediatrician who has the most efficient practice I have ever seen and told me he makes nearly $300k/year! He's the extreme plus he works his tail off and sees an enormous amount of patients/day but it is possible. Purely anecdotal. But, if you want to do peds, then do it. Your loans are going to hang over your head no matter what you do especially when you have >200K. wow.

 

[jackjinju]

Thanks for the response....any other takers? What about the subspecialties?

 

[rastelli]

I heard of a peds. heme/onc doc in Vegas that is flying solo. Not sure how many other heme/onc doctors are out there, but he works his butt off, and grosses $2,000,000/year. Obviously an exception to the rule. I do know it's not uncommon for noninvasive ped. cardiologist to pull in 250-300K/year.

Remember, much of this depends on which part of the country you choose to practice in. If you want, check out <a href="http://www.salary.com." target="_blank">www.salary.com.</a> I think this is the site where you can compare salaries in various parts of the country, and compare versus the national average.

 

[realruby2000]

how much do they make on average...

 

[mcwmark]

The starting salaries I have heard vary between geographical region, but they range from $100,000 (California) to about $120,000 (here in the midwest). In general practice, how much you make will ultimately depend on how many patients you want to see in a day, if you'll take overnight call, if you'll see patients in the evening, etc.

I know of a recent "retiring" pediatrician (he's only 50!) who sold his practice (20 years) for $2 million. He worked very hard, often 60-80 hours a week, but decided he needed to work less. He now works in hospital administration.

 

[Voxel]

In general pediatrics and their subspecialties make less than adult medicine fields, especially some adult subspecialists. Most pediatric fellowship trained pediatricians only make 30-50K/yr more than the general pediatrician.

From the several salary survies out there, I believe that pediatric neonatologists make the most money and on average make atleast $200K (60-80K more than average salary of general pediatricians). In some parts of the midwest and deep south you can probably make 300-400K as a neonatologist.

Neonatologists have a hard life in terms of hours and babies dying daily. NICUs need 24/7 coverage. It is rewarding to save those little premies, but can be draining physically and emotionally.

 

[Floyd77803]

statistically, pediatrics is THE least paying medical specialty. Though you must note the differnce between peds and pediatric(other specialty such as oncology) In this example a pediatric oncologist is an internist (possibly dual boarded in peds) who completed a oncology fellowship and practices primarily on children. They aren't general pediatricians. These types of specialtists commonly make 250+. However, I think the average pediatrician makes less then 150 per year

 

[deleted4401]

Our Pediatric Interest Group advisor, a general pediatrician, was telling us about how pediatricians were the lowest paid specialty and how it came about.

The reason? Not because of less procedures, or less patients or anything really different in terms of practing medicine. Medicare/all other DRGs came up with the brilliant conclusion that because children are smaller, it is less work to do a work up/any procudure on a child. So, for every procedure listing that is the same for an adult or child (EKG, blood test), they just have a lower price for a child on the DRG. Why? Maybe because your hands move less on a smaller person, I guess, that's all Dr. Hebert could come up with.

Maybe they should charge less for midgets and more for NBA centers.

Did they even consider the fact that children are a hell of a lot harder to get a history out of? And that maybe when they squirm, your hands actually may move more when doing a procedure?

Guess you can guess that I'm a future pediatrician ...

Simul

 

[John90210]

Most salary surveys also do not take into account that many female pediatricans work part time. It is not unusual for full time pediatricians to start out at 140K and move to 180K within five years.

 

[grkbuckeye]

Just curious, what would a part time Pediatrician make?

 

[John90210]

Part time is variable. From 1/2 day per week to 3 days per week are usually considered part-time. From the little that I know about compensation, a full day is worth about $400-$800 depending on how many patients and the level of service.

 

[Voxel]

Medicare usually does not pay for child services, although may children are covered by Medicaid/CHIP insurance as well as private insurance. 1) The pediatrician market is saturated in many suburban and urban (well atleast the nice urban areas) areas. This leaves many pediatricans unable to negotiate better fees. If you want to make more go to areas with less managed care penetration. 2) Corporations, which provide a significant amount of child health insurance are looking for the cheapest price. Unfortunately children are the last in the totem pole in terms of insurance companies wanting to spend money on them and therefore pediatricians get less money. 3) Children tend to be realitively well (mostly outpatient medicine) and when they do get sick they usally get better quickly (probably shorter lengths of stay). They usually do not have chronic problems like adults and do not usually require expensive tests and interventions (luckily). Most children do not need coronary artery stenting, abdominal CTs, or MRIs of their brain for strokes.

 

[deleted4401]

I agree, Voxel, about children being well and usually outpatient and about CHIP and Medicaid ... I was just thinking about the average Joe-Schmo general pediatrician.

The stents and CTs aren't performed or billed by the internists/pediatricians anyway. The specialists themselves get to bill for those procedures, I think (correct me if I'm wrong). And severely ill patients aren't generally cared for by general pediatricians, right (I'm not sure on that, either)? I thought the neonatologists, pediatric cardiologists, intensivists, etc. take care of those patients, rather than the child's general pediatrician.

It doesn't make sense for the fee-for-service/DRG schedules to reimburse less for the same services, since the activity level and work done for routine services are the same for a child or adult. I think it's just another way that children (and along the way, pediatricians) get shafted.

I guess it's just something that will never change anyway, so no use complaining, we should be able to pay off our debt eventually, right?

Simul

 

[rastelli]

I have been told be various ped. specialists that cardiology and critical care docs are in surplus. I've heard that right now, there is more of a need for GI, endo, heme/onc, etc.