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Ray. Thanks for telling people the reality for international students in Australia. Do not bother applying to an Aussie school without a PR.
Good internship news for international students in Sydney/NSW
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It would certainly be easier if you have an Australian PR. But I read that the AMA is taking a serious look into the issue, and one of their objectives is to attempt to increase the number of hospital internships in Australia to at least 3400 by the time we graduate in 2012, which should be enough.
Whether they will accomplish that or not is another issue.
Anyone have any information about NZ?
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I really do not know about NZ but I heard an internship year in Singapore or Malaysia is considered equivalent to one in Australia, now this is just what I heard, maybe Redshift could confirm this.
Somehow what the AMA says does not give me any comfort about going 300k in debt. They could be saying that just to keep international students. Someone said you could get married to an Australian, I know from personal experience that even a marriage will not give you an automatic PR, the DIAC knows full well about marriage scams.
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Internal medicine is easy to match into in the US. Just get decent scores in the USMLE steps. Your odds are very high.
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It's a well-known fact -- read up through the forum.
Here's a link: http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2009v3.pdf
Here's a link: http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2009v3.pdf
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rox is right
IM is relatively easy
IM is relatively easy
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FM would be easy too, but most people want to do better than go into a FM/IM residency. Specialties will be difficult for IMGs. Fields like Radiology, Orthopedics, Anesthesiology, and Dermatology will be tough for IMGs. Emergency Medicine is also an uphill climb for IMGs. You might work on the assumption that since Australia is an advanced English speaking country that PDs might treat you different from other IMGs(ie. Caribbean graduates) but you really cannot count on that.
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That's not the point. The poster was asking about IM.
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Keep in mind that "relatively" is the key word there... it's still not "easy" by any means.
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Keep in mind that "relatively" is the key word there... it's still not "easy" by any means.
snap. Thanks for the info though, Janikey.
I'm thinking of IM - I really don't mind it. Thinking about going through all core areas before thinking of a fellowship, if I wanna go there.
Yeah, I assume so. Well, in general, it is a difficult road to become a doctor anyway. Not to mention getting into medical school...
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Don't lose hope.
Study hard and you will open doors.
Start planning 2 years prior to graduation where you want to go or head.
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Just now graduating from University of Auckland and as far as I'm aware everyone in my class got an internship spot for next year. This is including around 20 Malaysian students and 1 North American student who is yet to get their PR. Even some of the students in my class got internship spots at Monash in Melbourne, Adelaide, and a hospital in Sydney. I believe there are even some 1st year spots that are still not filled even after all the places were taken by NZ graduates. However, all of these spots would be at probable less desired places. In short, if you are an OZ grad. it wouldn't be too problematic to get an intern spot over here most likely.
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Between now and 2012, there will be a massive increase in graduates. Nobody missed out on internships this year, but the government has no intention of creating enough internships to accommodate the increase in graduates. That's why we're expecting a shortage in the future.
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I want to remind everyone how, once again this year as every year for the past six, doomsdayers and/or trolls made adamant statements that there were NO places for int'ls this year (in all of Australia!).
As shan and others who are here have said, it will become increasingly difficult to stay, and those who are thinking of coming here need to assume they won't be able to stay (unless they get PR along the way). But be on the lookout for exaggerated, sensationalistic claims which are nothing but scaremongering. Few know the future, things change, systems adjust, laws change (e.g., see a few threads earlier about the relaxation of the moratorium), and some people just like to make such comments because they lack subtlety of thought or just because that's how they get off.
btw Queensland accepted 52 int'l interns for next year. I haven't heard yet about any not offered a job.
As shan and others who are here have said, it will become increasingly difficult to stay, and those who are thinking of coming here need to assume they won't be able to stay (unless they get PR along the way). But be on the lookout for exaggerated, sensationalistic claims which are nothing but scaremongering. Few know the future, things change, systems adjust, laws change (e.g., see a few threads earlier about the relaxation of the moratorium), and some people just like to make such comments because they lack subtlety of thought or just because that's how they get off.
btw Queensland accepted 52 int'l interns for next year. I haven't heard yet about any not offered a job.
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But the thing is...are there going to be jobs for those students who graduate in 2012 and later? From most of my research, the only places that might have availability in those later years will be in South Australia and WA. NSW and Victoria will be pretty much closed to international students in later years.
I actually really like Australia a lot and with each day am really considering just staying in Oz, especially considering the fact that the US economic situation shows no genuine signs of improvement. I was even told by other Americans as to why I would want to return to the US and I guess I now understand, seeing the stark reality of the current US economic and sociopolitical situation, things do not look very promising in the US or North America in general.
I actually really like Australia a lot and with each day am really considering just staying in Oz, especially considering the fact that the US economic situation shows no genuine signs of improvement. I was even told by other Americans as to why I would want to return to the US and I guess I now understand, seeing the stark reality of the current US economic and sociopolitical situation, things do not look very promising in the US or North America in general.
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I've been told by a Doc trained in Aus that for this past year there were not many WA internships available even to local Aussies that were out-of-state applicants. Notre Dame Fremantle's first cohort finished in 2008 and its grads entered the internship pool in 2009. given this, its unlikely ANY were left for former international med students, especially those that didnt study in WA. Thus, thinking WA is safe is probably a mistake.
noone will know what things will be like in 2012. state governments could increase the number of internships available, but it would be foolish to decide to invest loads of cash in an aussie degree assuming you will be able to get an internship as a former international med student. if things don't change, every state but SA will have fewer internships than graduates, and SA will not be able to handle the glut from every other state. i'd say you should plan on not being able to stay if you come to Aus for med school.
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Well I got another way into Australia. I can apply for a PR through my girlfriend. Its very likely I am going to get married, so now they cannot kick me out because I am going to be a family member of an Australian citizen. Marriage is the most efficient way to get past immigration in any country. I have friends who were able to get into some of the most anti immigrant countries this way. One of my friends in college immigrated to Switzerland by marrying a Swiss citizen, and its almost impossible to move to Switzerland unless you have an EU passport or are insanely wealthy, he is neither, Switzerland easily has the most rigid immigration laws on Earth of any developed nation. Aussie immigration is a cinch in comparison. Even so, Australia is an excellent country for anyone to live in, a lot better than most parts of the world, sure it has its issues, but it deserves its high ranking for quality of life on global surveys. The US today is not even in the top ten among best countries in which to live anymore and traveling around America this year the reality of America in decline hit me like a ton of bricks, the US is currently in an unprecedented economic decline, if you don't think America is in jeopardy you are living in a fantasy world, and to those of you thinking that the very lush way of life that most North Americans have been accustomed to up until now are going to continue, I can tell you that it ain't. I guess the only real annoyance I will anticipate as a student in Australia is the North American students, particularly, the Canadians who will whine about how great North America was and how Australia does not have this or that, and trust me I see this a lot among North American, particularly Canadian expats in Australia, in fact I am usually pretty snotty to fellow North Americans but am on my best behavior with Aussies.
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All the best Janikeydoc but even though you'vd lived in Australia for a couple of years you really don't know them that well.
Getting PR is a great step but not exactly citizenship. You're a medical student but in the International classification and everyone knows you pay higher fees and you have to apply for the Internships but the International ones in Australia.
Your accent will give you away every time you interview.
Australian medicine like UK or US medicine has it's heirarchy and genetic family bloodline going back generations. Australian physicians who suceed have been born and raised there going to the schools that their families for generations have gone whether it's King's School in Parramatta or Ascham Girls School near Point Piper. Outsiders call it arrogance and elitism but it's alive and well in Australia.
Getting PR is a great step but not exactly citizenship. You're a medical student but in the International classification and everyone knows you pay higher fees and you have to apply for the Internships but the International ones in Australia.
Your accent will give you away every time you interview.
Australian medicine like UK or US medicine has it's heirarchy and genetic family bloodline going back generations. Australian physicians who suceed have been born and raised there going to the schools that their families for generations have gone whether it's King's School in Parramatta or Ascham Girls School near Point Piper. Outsiders call it arrogance and elitism but it's alive and well in Australia.
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Wow...this is a complete 180 of you a few months ago, being anti australia and pro america.
Hypocrite.
Uh...remember these posts?
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=8302947#post8302947
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=8250447#post8250447
Those surveys are bullcrap, everyone has a different experience. Honestly I find Australia to be BORING. I like traveling, and like going to places like South America and Europe, two destinations which are too expensive to go to from Australia. A bargain roundtrip to Europe is around $1500AUD, I could get bargain tickets to Europe from the US as low as $300AUD.
I am from Miami, I have spent a lot of time on the West Coast, and yes I have seen quite a few Aussies in both Miami and in Cali, and no I did not mistake them for being British. There are tons of famous examples of Aussies who have moved to the USA. Even the Crocodile Dundee actor won't set foot in Australia again, how ironic.
The Mercer surveys are nonsense, they pick the most boring places in the world as the best places to live. Life is really what you make of it. Frankly speaking I saw another survey, a survey of cities with the world's best looking women, cities like Copenhagen, Montreal, Barcelona, Moscow, Prague, and Stockholm ranked very high. That is a survey I respect.I have been to Moscow, I have to say wawaweeewa!!!
Sydney was way down on the bottom of that list, its not surprising since so many Aussie guys go overseas for fun, if you know what I mean, and the fact that every other guy here has a mail order bride or girlfriend.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=8233808#post8233808
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=8233786#post8233786
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=8188016#post8188016
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=8188004#post8188004
But now you want to get an Australian PR? hmm...
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So what?? I made the folly of comparing Oz in 2009 to the USA in 1999. I have been living outside the USA for nearly that much time the last two of those years in Oz. I only realized on my recent trip to the States how much it has changed. You won't be hearing any more pro US things from me any time soon. Push the time frame to 2019 and I think the difference is going to be even more stark, I just don't see the US getting out of this current mess that it is in anytime soon.
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Re: Internship in Malaysia and Singapore being equivalent to Aus Internship.
This was info I gathered from speaking to the AMC, but it would be good if someone else could confirm it.
Basically the situation I enquired about was if you had an Oz degree and did an internship in one of those countries, would you be able to get General Registration (ie has if you had completed your internship) and the answer I was told was "yes".
This was info I gathered from speaking to the AMC, but it would be good if someone else could confirm it.
Basically the situation I enquired about was if you had an Oz degree and did an internship in one of those countries, would you be able to get General Registration (ie has if you had completed your internship) and the answer I was told was "yes".
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Hi,
1-By internship, do you mean residency (2-3 years work that you do in hosp after you graduate)?
2-So, after a Canadian student graduates from Auzi med school, they can do their internship in Malaysia,(if they can't do it in Australia) and then can they get back to australia and getting licensed...?
3-I read on earlier post that if NSW is the hardest of all the provinces/territories in Asutralia in finding residency. what if I study at UTasmania Med school and want to do my internship in Tasmania. Is that a viable option?
4-I'm Canadian, and I know getting back to Can is very diff. And australia is not easy for International students to practice in b/c of lack of residency...Hence, I'm thinking about practicing in U.S eventually. I know if I go to Caribbean Med school, after the 1st couple of years in Carib, I go to U.S & do my last 2 years of Med school in U.S hospitals (and take USMLE 2 & 3). Having said that, is it better to go australian med school or carribean med school, if you want to practice in U.S eventually? (I see alot of ppl seem to be going to carribean)...
Thanks...
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1 Internship = 12 months of supervised training in an accredited hospital with certain core rotations.
2 Yes, provided Malaysia will accept you. NZ and Singapore certainly will, the trick with Singapore is your school MUST be on their approved list. If it's a new school it won't be.
3. NSW and QLD are the two hardest. Yes UTAS = preference for all of Tassie. The easiest place to get a job would be in Burnie, so do your final two clinical years there and you'll get a job. I got a first round offer (on paper not supposed to happen for internationals) in Burnie after graduation. Really this whole PR thing is moot in hospitals like that since they just want someone who's willing to stay for the full year.
4. You may want to go to the US, but may never end up getting there. Aus is a safer bet because it opens doors for you in NZ and Singapore, the caribbean does not. At the end if you do all your clinical training in Oz it's easier to go back to Canada; in fact you may have to write only a few exams. For Americans going the carib route makes sense since they can only really do their residency in the US, because with few exceptions no Australian training is recognized in the US, and they have an advantage when getting jobs in the US (greencard/citizenship). For Canadians the situation is a lot different. So ultimately do whatever you think will give you the best long term outcome.
2 Yes, provided Malaysia will accept you. NZ and Singapore certainly will, the trick with Singapore is your school MUST be on their approved list. If it's a new school it won't be.
3. NSW and QLD are the two hardest. Yes UTAS = preference for all of Tassie. The easiest place to get a job would be in Burnie, so do your final two clinical years there and you'll get a job. I got a first round offer (on paper not supposed to happen for internationals) in Burnie after graduation. Really this whole PR thing is moot in hospitals like that since they just want someone who's willing to stay for the full year.
4. You may want to go to the US, but may never end up getting there. Aus is a safer bet because it opens doors for you in NZ and Singapore, the caribbean does not. At the end if you do all your clinical training in Oz it's easier to go back to Canada; in fact you may have to write only a few exams. For Americans going the carib route makes sense since they can only really do their residency in the US, because with few exceptions no Australian training is recognized in the US, and they have an advantage when getting jobs in the US (greencard/citizenship). For Canadians the situation is a lot different. So ultimately do whatever you think will give you the best long term outcome.
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Gotta disagree with you there. I've applied to some pretty competitive programs with the least Australian accent on the planet and I've gotten spots over blonde hair blue eyed aussies. BTW I was also the least qualified ie. only internship with no RMO experience.
Ultimately the secret to getting a job here is do well on your interview, and know the right people. I suppose it's not really that different anywhere, but here you'll find the "rules" are a lot more flexible.
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How many redshifteffects are there? From what he writes he seems to have already done 2 FM residencies and got into several of the top notch programs in the nation of Australia beating out the local inhabitants.
Where exactly are you and doing? You surely must be the Surgeon General of Australia by now.
Where exactly are you and doing? You surely must be the Surgeon General of Australia by now.
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I don't remember him ever saying any of those things. He said he was ACCEPTED to the FM programs, not that he completed them. Also, he didn't say that he got into "top notch" programs - he said "competitive." After you finish your internship, it doesn't really matter whether you're a "local inhabitant"... everybody is treated pretty equally, unless you're an AMC student.
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If you read through my posting history you'll see I got into the two residencies that I applied for last year, Pathology and FM. Pathology in NSW had over 100 applicants, about 40 of which got an interview for around 7-10 jobs in all of NSW (I never knew the exact number). I got the job, and had no PR (at the time), no Aussie accent, no qualifications in Pathology, no RMO experience (straight internship), and I hadn't even passed the BPS at the time, and there were a lot more Australian candidates then the job positions. The several people from this forum who I've invited to gain experience in my job can back this up. I'm working as a registrar in the NSW pathology program.
BTW How much time have you worked in Oz. It's nice that you're commenting on a system that (I assume) you've never even worked in.
I reapplied to GP this year and got in. That's the beauty of Oz, you can apply to several residencies at once, and get into them even when you're in another program.
BTW How much time have you worked in Oz. It's nice that you're commenting on a system that (I assume) you've never even worked in.
I reapplied to GP this year and got in. That's the beauty of Oz, you can apply to several residencies at once, and get into them even when you're in another program.
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And quit one to do another! A guy in my anaesthetics dept just finished a PHO year to get proceduralist skills as part of his GP training, but liked it so much he quit the RACGP for anaesthetics.
btw I haven't seen any favoritism to domestics here either. Mucho ass kissing by some to get into ortho, for sure, but that's another matter.
Red, did you opt for path after all, or are you switching??
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Nope, was hoping it would be a surprise
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Hey, could someone tell me about U Tasmania med school? I read above that it's easier to get internship in Tasmania? Does it mean you have to go to med school there and how much would it cost? Also if you can't get internship in australia but get it in new zealand, would it stop you then from getting a competitive residency in australia?
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i will direct you to their website to find tuition as i assume you are not an aus permanent resident or citizen. the cost of living should be comparatively low. redshift will probably chime in to say more on that.
every state currently has a preference for internship selection and those that studied medicine in the state have a higher preference than interstate applicants. also, there is only the one med school in tasmania and as far as i know (which isnt much) they have not increased student places as much as they other states so it should be relatively easy to secure an internship in tasmania (in comparison to other states).
new zealand internship is recognized in Aus as is most (if not all) specialty training. however, you will still have to deal with visa issues and the 10 year moratorium.
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Thank you. I have also used the search button and found that U Tasmania is a 6yr program which is too long and too expensive for me as an international, and the same with U Auckland. Also I read that while in-state applicants get preference, if you are a student from out-of-state but do a rotation at a rural hospital in Tasmania, they would take you? Flinders as such seems like a great choice because it's a 4yr program and supposedly SA still has a lot of spots and if not can try to do rural electives in places like Tasmania?
So I have further questions:
1) If I get an internship in Australia after med school then I will get enough points to get PR during that internship year. Then I will be on equal footing with australians when I try to get a competitive residency for the next year? I.e. most australians could get into a non-competitive residency straight out of internship, and if they want to they can reapply and get into a competitive residency after 2nd yr?
2) Is there any flaw in this strategy: offer some woman $20k to marry me and then I get PR while still in med school? Or how long would the process take if I am a 1st year medical student married to an australian with a prior masters degree from usa and no work experience?
3) I do not really understand what is moratorium. From what I've read the 10yr mark starts from the time you complete internship? So you may spend part of that time in residency. And then you can either work at a public hospital at a slightly lower pay anywhere in australia or in private practice in selected underserved areas? That does not seem very restrictive especially since public hospitals in australia allow you to make $200k+ as a specialist.
Thank you.
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utas is now 5 years. the med course was revised 2-3 years ago.
i'm sure doing a rotation in Tas would help but they probably have the same ballot system which uses ballots. that is not to say that its impossible to secure an internship outside the match.
you are going to offer some girl 20 grand to marry you to get a visa. i dont want you as my doctor. could take over a year to get a visa, but i dont know much about getting visa as a partner.
moratorium starts when you gain PR or unconditional registration, whichever occurs last.
i'm sure doing a rotation in Tas would help but they probably have the same ballot system which uses ballots. that is not to say that its impossible to secure an internship outside the match.
you are going to offer some girl 20 grand to marry you to get a visa. i dont want you as my doctor. could take over a year to get a visa, but i dont know much about getting visa as a partner.
moratorium starts when you gain PR or unconditional registration, whichever occurs last.
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No, you would be required to wait until you are fully registered, i.e., after you complete internship. Then you can get the 60 or whatever points for being a doc, and if you go the route of getting state sponsorship (easy at least in Qld) you'll be able to get your PR prioritized (within about 2 months in Qld from multiple recent samples).
Correct, the moratorium is to start after internship, whether you have PR or not (jaketheory - Roxon is in the process of changing this so that it's not the later of the two).
Many do not consider it much of a hindrance, with recent changes institutionalizing at MOST ten years of either public training (JHO year and beyond) or restricted practice. So for most specialties, count on 4 years or less of restrictions after training.
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i knew there has been pressure to change it but it's not changed yet. who knows how long it will take to get it through?
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Point taken, jake, and I wasn't sure either, so I looked it up -- it passed in February, with wording as was proposed:
[bill passed]
http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id:legislation/billhome/R4227
[explanatory memorandum]
http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/legislation/ems/r4227_ems_6ae29e2a-2801-4a93-8636-f1c144b3391c/upload_pdf/335176.pdf;fileType=application%2Fpdf
[bill text]
http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/legislation/bills/r4227_aspassed/toc_pdf/09206b01.pdf;fileType=application%2Fpdf
To answer skatetudoroga's question about tuition for med school at UTAS as an international (non-Australia citizen, non-Australian PR) student: AUD $16,500 per semester. There are 2 semesters each year. So that totals AUD $33,000 per year. 5 year program so that totals to $165,000 for your entire degree, tuition only.
Source = I'm a Canadian-citizen 3rd year UTAS med student.
And personally I also do not encourage paying a girl 20K to get married, as a means of jumping through the immigration system...
And in case you were wondering what sort of VISA you'd be under during your internship year, I think it's a long-term business VISA, hospital-sponsored or a temporary VISA for doctors -- not completely sure of their names but they're something like that.
That is if you do get an internship.
Take care.
Source = I'm a Canadian-citizen 3rd year UTAS med student.
And personally I also do not encourage paying a girl 20K to get married, as a means of jumping through the immigration system...
And in case you were wondering what sort of VISA you'd be under during your internship year, I think it's a long-term business VISA, hospital-sponsored or a temporary VISA for doctors -- not completely sure of their names but they're something like that.
That is if you do get an internship.
Take care.
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so utas isn't that bad of an idea financially. tuition alone would be cheaper than for a 4 year course. flinders is probably amongst the cheapest for internationals and is $173,000 over 4 years. total living expenses for 5 years in hobart would be around the same or less than 4 years in Sydney (probably less). i'd say 5 years at UTas at worst would cost the same as the cheaper 4 year schools. but you should also consider that you will be spending an extra year studying rather than earning dough. good back up plan to grad-entry though.
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and 2 weeks ago i visited Hobart and the med school and it's all quite nice. the med school building is brand new and houses the Menzies research institute on the top floors. it's right across the street from the hospital. i really liked hobart too. i could see myself living there. mind you it is a pretty tiny city, but it has all the conveniences of a real city but without all the big city nuisances. it's right on the water too. in Sydney it can take over an hour to get from one side to the other. if you go to visit a friend on the other side of time, you'll want an appointment cuz it could mean 2 hours or more wasted traversing the city. in hobart you can get to the other side in 10 minutes. plenty of restaraunts, cafes, pubs, and shopping.
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There are different routes to take, but grads I know have generally done the following:
For internship and up to applying for PR:
457: Temporary Business Long Stay
You're qualified as long as you have a hospital job offer.
For PR:
885: General Skilled Independent
This is the lowest priority, requires meeting points requirement from the Skilled Occupations List (shouldn't be a problem once you've completed internship), takes up to 18 months to get.
856: Employer sponsored
This is medium priority if you can get your hospital to sponsor you, though many hospitals are no longer doing this.
176: State govt sponsored
This is the highest priority. If docs are on your state's skilled jobs list of high priority need (I'd think most states, but only know Qld for sure), then you get the state to sponsor you, then apply for the 176 and should get PR within a couple months (though the immigration website has temporarily suspended this one, hopefully somehow just as part of Rudd's ongoing immigration shakeup). Technically is an 'offshore' visa, so when they're ready to decide on your visa, they'll call and tell you to leave the country for something like 5 days (though in practice has recently been just 1-2 days). You're committed to the state for 3 years (obviously you can leave Australia, but if you go interstate for full-time work, you're taking a risk).
Resources:
General Skilled:
http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/general-skilled-migration/visa-options-inside.htm
Doctor specific:
http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/medical-practitioners/visa-options-doctors.htm
Example of State sponsorship (Qld):
http://www.workliveplay.qld.gov.au/dsdweb/v4/apps/web/content.cfm?id=4175
Red (or anyone else who's going through it)...is this also what you've seen?
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i have a 176 visa sponsored by NSW. you commit to living 2 years in the sponsoring state, not 3 years, unless they've recently changed that. and you aren't really taking any risks by going interstate. the australian government technically has no legal authority to tell you where you can live in Australia if you are a permanent resident or citizen (with few exceptions like areas that are off limits to all civilians). that would violate the freedoms afforded by aus law. before applying for sponsorship the state told me they will not enforce the 2 year requirement. i also asked the immigration dept and they said it was an issue between the applicant and the sponsoring state, it is not a federal level issue. i also searched internet forums devoted to people migrating to aus and found a thread where legal practitioers addresed this issue. it should be noted that your visa is valid on the condition that you did not provide false info in your application and one issue would be that you not intend to live in the sponsoring state when you applied for your visa or while the application is being processed; the application process requires you to provide updates should your circumstances change anytime after your visa application is submitted and before it is approved. to revoke your visa, they would essentially have to show that you never intended to live in the sponsoring state. you can intend to live there before applying and during the processing of your visa, but once your application is approved it wont matter.
things change in life and if your reasons to live in that state change, they wont force you to live there.
disclaimer: i am not a legal practioner or a migration agent and i accept no responsibility for any potential consequence of your use of any info i have provided.
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You're absolutely right, apologies - I doublechecked my (Qld) app and it says 2 years.
Interesting and insightful. To play devil's advocate, I guess an exception to the notion of freedom to live where you want as a PR or citizen is if you are also effectively restricted on where you can live because you're restricted on where you can work, for example under the moratorium (which itself could be legally challenged I guess). Because that precedent is there, it could be the 'living' in state is unenforceable while 'working' in state could be.
It's untested though. NSW saying they won't enforce the rule is welcome news, but if a state decided to do something to back up their stipulation, I would think it would at least be a "risk" that one is taking. I don't think it's a serious one, but it is something that people need to consider. I'd hate to be the test case if my state wanted and were to come after me, even if the odds were excellent that I'd win.
Jake - how long did it take you to get your 176?
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the 176 is totally all about where you live, not work. i looked into living in Queenbayen in the NSW. its a 20 minute commute to the Canberra CBD from there. and i'm quite sure the moratorium is solely about where you work. you could commute by plane everyday to the middle of nowhere if you want, as far as i know. but i admit i'm not in the thick of things. but there is no precedent about working at all for the 176. if you are independently wealthy you can sit on your ass forever. i've been in sydney on my 176 for 7-8 months and only just scored a job.
like i'm saying, the australian gov't cannot dictate where you live. i can find the web address of the forum with a lawyer saying such if you want. i'm sure i have it bookmarked somewhere. all you have to do is ask them up front like i did, then there is no worry. say look, i'm worried i may not find the right job for me. if that is the case and i look interstate, would there be consequence in me moving? or something like that. they will have to tell you and if you have it in writing that works for you. but like i said, they cant violate your freedoms as a permanent resident.
it took 9 months between the time i applied for the visa and it was approved. but i applied before things went crazy. my visa was approved may 2009.
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In my app, it says:
"a) I must work and reside in Queensland for a period of at least two years."
It may not be enforceable, but it's pretty clear about both working and living in Qld.
That's messed up. I know docs who applied last year and this year and got it in under 2 months. Totally unpredictable then! Maybe because they were docs(?) How long after you got a case manager?
"a) I must work and reside in Queensland for a period of at least two years."
It may not be enforceable, but it's pretty clear about both working and living in Qld.
That's messed up. I know docs who applied last year and this year and got it in under 2 months. Totally unpredictable then! Maybe because they were docs(?) How long after you got a case manager?
