Good news, everyone! The sky isn't falling

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KennethCool

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The number of people admitted pharmacy school has been falling for 4 consecutive years. Word about the bad prospects is getting out. The class that begins this next fall is extremely likely to be smaller than last year based on everything I've seen. So we will have 5 years in a row with declining enrollment.

67% of new graduates are female. Women are much more likely to pursue part-time work and take time off for childcare responsibilities. On average, women work about 1/8 less than men for paid work (they're doing unpaid work at home usually).

There are states like New York which are requiring electronic RXs. This will add an extra layer of efficiency, allowing the chains to increase profits.

The sky is not falling, guys.

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Less students are also passing the boards and the baby boomers that refused to retire are also beginning to just die off. We also have increased employment opportunities with PGY3, PGY4, and PGY5 coming up so rather than enter the workforce pharmacists can exist in a perpetual residency and delay entry.
 
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Plus PAtoPharmD dropped out, so that's one more spot that's available! And MTM is sure to make us more valuable, amirite?
 
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Decreasing enrollment won't save this profession. It needs to cut the new grads by half at least. Seriously, my chain has an intern, or two or three in every store, they will be jobless fighting for scraps getting 8-24h/w floating forever this summer. The offer they got sends them straight to the boonies, 2 hours drive from metro. Take it or leave it LMAO...

"Fake news!!!" - Dumb Trump.
 
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Should I discourage my P1 tech?? I feel like not mentoring her to look to other alternatives is just wrong.
 
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The number of people admitted pharmacy school has been falling for 4 consecutive years. Word about the bad prospects is getting out. The class that begins this next fall is extremely likely to be smaller than last year based on everything I've seen. So we will have 5 years in a row with declining enrollment.

67% of new graduates are female. Women are much more likely to pursue part-time work and take time off for childcare responsibilities. On average, women work about 1/8 less than men for paid work (they're doing unpaid work at home usually).

There are states like New York which are requiring electronic RXs. This will add an extra layer of efficiency, allowing the chains to increase profits.

The sky is not falling, guys.
You have to realize that every new graduate is going to be on the market and competing for jobs for the next 40 years. The saturation will only get worse.
 
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You have to realize that every new graduate is going to be on the market and competing for jobs for the next 40 years. The saturation will only get worse.

I imagine a lot of people will give up and leave pharmacy if they can't find a job after two years.
 
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I imagine a lot of people will give up and leave pharmacy if they can't find a job after two years.
And do what? Imagine that you have a PharmD and 200k, what else can you do? You are broke, can't take out anymore student loans. Sure, a few people might find a unicorn job that will use a pharmD but what about 10,000 of students. That is the real danger and tragedy of pharmacy school, a pharmacy education is so narrow in its application that if you don't work as a staff pharmacist, retail pharmacist, you basically can't find a job.
 
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And do what? Imagine that you have a PharmD and 200k, what else can you do? You are broke, can't take out anymore student loans. Sure, a few people might find a unicorn job that will use a pharmD but what about 10,000 of students. That is the real danger and tragedy of pharmacy school, a pharmacy education is so narrow in its application that if you don't work as a staff pharmacist, retail pharmacist, you basically can't find a job.

You will do what tens of thousands of other students have done with lots of debt and a low paying job.

Move back home and default on the debt or do PAYE working at a fast food eatery or Walmart.
 
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And do what? Imagine that you have a PharmD and 200k, what else can you do? You are broke, can't take out anymore student loans. Sure, a few people might find a unicorn job that will use a pharmD but what about 10,000 of students. That is the real danger and tragedy of pharmacy school, a pharmacy education is so narrow in its application that if you don't work as a staff pharmacist, retail pharmacist, you basically can't find a job.

There's not a widespread cash dole in America so they will have to work. I look forward to seeing the uniquely American solutions that they come up with.
 
The flow of new grads may abate, but the stock of pharmacy licensees only attrites by death. There are hordes of RPHs out there that graduated in the 90s before the bubble but were PIPed and harrassed out the door. You can wipe your butt with official stats of pharmacist uneployment. Many aren't officially counted. The real U6 number for pharmacy is probably north of 30%.
Saying that sky isn't falling due to class sizes diminishing is like Chernobyl residents saying the worst is behind them in 1986. It's too late. The demographic damage was already done long ago. Pharmacy as a field has become Tarkovsky's "The Zone" in Roadside Picnic.

 
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The flow of new grads may abate, but the stock of pharmacy licensees only attrites by death. There are hordes of RPHs out there that graduated in the 90s before the bubble but were PIPed and harrassed out the door. You can wipe your butt with official stats of pharmacist uneployment. Many aren't officially counted. The real U6 number for pharmacy is probably north of 30%.
Saying that sky isn't falling due to class sizes diminishing is like Chernobyl residents saying the worst is behind them in 1986. It's too late. The demographic damage was already done long ago. Pharmacy as a field has become Tarkovsky's "The Zone" in Roadside Picnic.



ahh good ole "performance improvement plans". That's the ultimate way to fire someone. Pip them with subjective un-meetable goals wait 6 months then pull the trigger.
 
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You know, I just came across a craigs list ad for a independent mail order pharmacy manager gig.

Get this....30 bucks an hour.

And you know what? Some ole fart retired pharmacist will take it just to get away from the wife. I've seen it with me own eyes. These codgers come out of the woodwork for this ads.
 
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I imagine a lot of people will give up and leave pharmacy if they can't find a job after two years.
And those people will be irrelevant - I imagine that if a new grad doesn't get a job in a year or two, newer new grads or people with experience will be preferred over them, and they will be unemployable.
 
I don't know, that all kind of sounds like symptoms of the sky falling.
 
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And those people will be irrelevant - I imagine that if a new grad doesn't get a job in a year or two, newer new grads or people with experience will be preferred over them, and they will be unemployable.

Yeah, if you can't get a job quickly, then companies are going to assume something is amiss as to why you have not worked. If you can't find work, then really the only option to keep some degree of experience would be volunteering at free clinics.
 
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ahh good ole "performance improvement plans". That's the ultimate way to fire someone. Pip them with subjective un-meetable goals wait 6 months then pull the trigger.

Some schools use this tool for behavioral improvement, but they give you 3-5 days to correct said behaviors. However, there is no consensus as to how effective these plans are: just like in life.
 
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The market can remain irrational longer than you can stay solvent.

The market will most likely improve but the question is how soon. Will it be soon enough for the currently $200k-indebted new grads to pick up more hours and pay off their loans before their loan balances continue to rise due to interest?
 
Based on what I learned from the business class in pharmacy school, job market will swing periodically. So I wouldn't be worried about permanent saturation but would be nice to close down some schools and decrease class size... U of Florida had 300 grads... lol geez.

Also, no matter how good the market becomes, if working conditions don't improve for retail, I'm not sure if I will ever recommend anyone to get into pharmacy.
 
U of Florida had 300 grads... lol geez.

UF actually closed a campus and cut enrollment, so while they are an easy target due to how large they had grown I personally think they are acting by far the most responsibly of any COP in Florida. Certainly more responsible than opening a new COP in south Florida!
 
Keep in mind that faculty are on extreme shortage. Only pharmacists who obtained postgraduate education (residencies and/or fellowships), publications, community service, professional organization service, and honorary leadership credentials are allowed into academic positions. Some faculty have precepting duties, clinical duties, research, grant writing, and ever piling workload. What I mentioned was just the basics. Some individuals have a residency plus experience and are still having trouble landing jobs, much less the one they saw upon matriculation; this is nothing new for our profession. Some faculty leave because the position is so demanding with very little pay or they found a better opportunity elsewhere.

Due to increasing demands on pharmacists and ever increasing supply of new students, a paucity of qualified individuals exist to train the students. Furthermore, not all residencies are created equal; the requirements of the program may or may not match the needs of the potential employer. In layman’s terms, good help is hard to find and one size does not fit all.

Our last class in 2017 has a 48% employment rate for positions within a pharmacy. The data does not out rightly say whether or not those individuals are pharmacists practicing with their license granted. The data is also spread out among people lost to follow-up, those employed outside of pharmacy, and students who received residency or fellowship training, so widely that it is difficult to tell how many students correspond to each category; the numbers do not add up to 100%. The responsibility is on increasing our own professional brand in addition to that of the profession, even the school itself.

Furthermore, if one defaults on their Federal student loans, they are no longer eligible to practice as a pharmacist. That’s because there are so many options available to repay them. If students default on them, it makes the school look bad. The Authorizations to Test (ATT) for the NAPLEX are also evaluated on a case-by-case basis while the timing of eligibility varies from school to school. This makes the whole process both cumbersome and inconvenient for students and graduates alike.

The only hint I will give you is this: "It does not matter how much you know, but how much you care." That is the only hint I am giving you as to the school I attended.
 
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Why is Husson University's pass rate so low? it's near 50% that is very sad.
I don't know but there is no way I would pay 37k plus COA for that pass rate. You would have to be an idiot because even mediocre schools are still trying to fill seats and they are either same cost or lower.
 
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Our last class in 2017 has a 48% employment rate for positions within a pharmacy. The data does not out rightly say whether or not those individuals are pharmacists practicing with their license granted.

That is a truly harrowing statistic. I assume the school is counting pharmacists who took residencies, and students who haven't/can't pass the NAPLEX and are working as technicians (since it is in the school's interests to make that number as high as possible to attract future students.)
My only doubt of that number, is I'm surprised the school would release it at all, since that number is so low. I suppose part of the issue could be the school is in a super-saturated area, and none of the pharmacists want to move for a job. Either way, future pharmacy students need to think long and hard about what they are getting themselves into.
 
Keep in mind that faculty are on extreme shortage. Only pharmacists who obtained postgraduate education (residencies and/or fellowships), publications, community service, professional organization service, and honorary leadership credentials are allowed into academic positions. Some faculty have precepting duties, clinical duties, research, grant writing, and ever piling workload. What I mentioned was just the basics. Some individuals have a residency plus experience and are still having trouble landing jobs, much less the one they saw upon matriculation; this is nothing new for our profession. Some faculty leave because the position is so demanding with very little pay or they found a better opportunity elsewhere.

Due to increasing demands on pharmacists and ever increasing supply of new students, a paucity of qualified individuals exist to train the students. Furthermore, not all residencies are created equal; the requirements of the program may or may not match the needs of the potential employer. In layman’s terms, good help is hard to find and one size does not fit all.

Our last class in 2017 has a 48% employment rate for positions within a pharmacy. The data does not out rightly say whether or not those individuals are pharmacists practicing with their license granted. The data is also spread out among people lost to follow-up, those employed outside of pharmacy, and students who received residency or fellowship training, so widely that it is difficult to tell how many students correspond to each category; the numbers do not add up to 100%. The responsibility is on increasing our own professional brand in addition to that of the profession, even the school itself.

Furthermore, if one defaults on their Federal student loans, they are no longer eligible to practice as a pharmacist. That’s because there are so many options available to repay them. If students default on them, it makes the school look bad. The Authorizations to Test (ATT) for the NAPLEX are also evaluated on a case-by-case basis while the timing of eligibility varies from school to school. This makes the whole process both cumbersome and inconvenient for students and graduates alike.

The only hint I will give you is this: "It does not matter how much you know, but how much you care." That is the only hint I am giving you as to the school I attended.
Roosevelt?
Where'd you find the 48%?
 
Roosevelt?
Where'd you find the 48%?

School website.

Each pharmacy school posts their own graduation and post-graduation data every year, some within a 3-year time span. The data postings as tables are intended so pre-pharmacy students can research their opportunities more closely; this is what we call in pharmacy "transparency of data reporting." If you would like more information, PM me. If not, use your skills to find employment as a pharmacist or as something else.

FYI: Some pharmacy schools do not post employment statistics or show a trend in employment outcomes or where students are employed on their website. The trends listed are usually graduation rates, NAPLEX pass rates, and/or MPJE pass rates. Our school actually chose to list gainful employment (thanks ACPE). Why some schools are not sanctioned for omitting gainful employment from the statistics they post I will never know. Slow on the uptake, perhaps?

More information about ACPE accreditation is located here, if you are interested:

PharmD Program Accreditation

Note the term: "Gainful employment." That term is listed in the ACPE guidelines on Page 20 of their most up-to-date Policies and Procedures document for January 2018, Section 11.6.5.

A link to the ACPE Policies and Procedures for January 2018 is posted here for your review: https://www.acpe-accredit.org/pdf/PoliciesandProcedures.pdf

Hopefully, some pre-pharmers will have a leg-up so they can choose their schools more appropriately.
 
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That is a truly harrowing statistic. I assume the school is counting pharmacists who took residencies, and students who haven't/can't pass the NAPLEX and are working as technicians (since it is in the school's interests to make that number as high as possible to attract future students.)
My only doubt of that number, is I'm surprised the school would release it at all, since that number is so low. I suppose part of the issue could be the school is in a super-saturated area, and none of the pharmacists want to move for a job. Either way, future pharmacy students need to think long and hard about what they are getting themselves into.

My thought is pure laziness on part of the students IMO and part of what you said: graduates do not want to move (or cannot move due to a disability or due to issues beyond their control) to find or keep their job. Having said that, It is not just a case of willingness to move somewhere else, but the ability to move somewhere else. Some individuals may have sick and ailing family members and prefer to be closer to home to take care of them. Others may be just lazy. It is not in our power to judge their circumstances, them, or the decisions they make.

Physicians may match into a residency and are not able to move for at least 3 years post-MD. If a couple's match were in place for pharmacy residencies, that would solve the emotional disconnect and possibly increase their willingness to move. Another proposed solution: have employers allow relocation payment for stellar new graduates (high-performers) who provided extraordinary service and otherwise could not afford to move.

In my case, my supports for the time being are too close to home to move out-of-state. There is no guarantee that such supports will be offered in another state or even in another country. Students (and pharmacists) are expected to take such risks (with money or not) and be comfortable with their own decisions (conscious or under stress). It is not thinking long and hard that is the issue, it is thinking longer and harder than the persons before you and further than those students who graduate after you.

The problem with the data presented is not the number of students matriculated into the schools every year or the number in comparison to the amount of opportunities achieved, but the method used to report the school's data. The number of students in each category is not included to make a clear comparison. Again, the percentages do not add up to 100%, increasing the ambiguity. One cannot tell who is employed, who is not, or how many; that lack of clarity and lack of transparency in reporting data (as well as strong feelings bias) are a few reasons stakeholders and professionals make poor decisions (such as open up more schools, not do well on rotations, lose out on opportunities, or do not use the opportunities they are given).

NABP data is available to the public and something anyone can Google if they choose. The option is there, but searching for the school data and critically reviewing school data is not encouraged. However, in practice, critically reviewing patient data and research articles is essential for pharmacy practice. Executives and employers need strong interpretation of clinical and economic data to make informed decisions; we as pharmacists gifted in such skills can meet and exceed the employer's demands (when we are in the right fit). The conflict of interest between schools and the real world is pervasive and never ends. The lack of clarity and transparency in addition to such conflicts of interest is why "the struggle is real." Every institution of higher learning has their own mission, every setting of pharmacy operates differently than the last, and each area within that setting varies in its operational practices. Consistency is not our friend, but it is something we strive for.


Our NAPLEX pass rates are all higher than the state average (FL), and 3-5% lower than the national average. However, our school had the enrollment capped at less than 100 students per class during the 2018 graduating classes and beyond; other schools in FL continue to either increase their numbers or remain at similar enrollment figures to their previous years. We were the only institution who capped student enrollment after a bunch of students raised the oversaturation issue to administration. In case I was not clear, our institution agreed to cap the PharmD student enrollment during the year 2014 and continued to do so. Despite the lower number of students, our scores reflect the quality of our training in a positive light versus a negative light. One of our colleagues even graduated with autism, a disability that prevents executive functioning skills, multitasking, and working with teams; this is hardly ever seen in pharmacy, a noteworthy accomplishment to be sure. Some individuals may have mixed feelings about this, but the accomplishment protects the integrity of the institution and the value of their PharmD. Despite these accomplishments by our institution, there is clearly lots of work to be done.

The real question is: who is going to do the work? The other question is why is our profession not doing a better job?


As a profession, we can do better and we know we can do better; we just don't! That is why we see what we see.

Student Statistics | USF Health
 
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My thought is pure laziness on part of the students IMO and part of what you said: graduates do not want to move (or cannot move due to a disability or due to issues beyond their control) to find or keep their job. Having said that, It is not just a case of willingness to move somewhere else, but the ability to move somewhere else. Some individuals may have sick and ailing family members and prefer to be closer to home to take care of them. Others may be just lazy. It is not in our power to judge their circumstances.

Physicians may match into a residency and are not able to move for at least 3 years post-MD. If a couple's match were in place for pharmacy residencies, that would solve the emotional disconnect and possibly increase their willingness to move. Another proposed solution: have employers allow relocation payment for stellar new graduates (high-performers) who provided extraordinary service and otherwise could not afford to move.

In my case, my supports for the time being are too close to home to move out-of-state. There is no guarantee that such supports will be offered in another state or even in another country. Students (and pharmacists) are expected to take such risks (with money or not) and be comfortable with their own decisions (conscious or under stress). It is not thinking long and hard that is the issue, it is thinking longer and harder than the persons before you and further than those students who graduate after you.

The problem with the data presented is not the number of students matriculated into the schools every year or the number in comparison to the amount of opportunities achieved, but the method used to report the school's data. The number of students in each category is not included to make a clear comparison. Again, the percentages do not add up to 100%, increasing the ambiguity. One cannot tell who is employed, who is not, or how many; that lack of clarity and lack of transparency in reporting data (as well as strong feelings bias) are a few reasons stakeholders and professionals make poor decisions (such as open up more schools, not do well on rotations, lose out on opportunities, or do not use the opportunities they are given).

NABP data is available to the public and something anyone can Google if they choose. The option is there, but searching for the school data and critically reviewing school data is not encouraged. However, in practice, critically reviewing patient data and research articles is essential for pharmacy practice. Executives and employers need strong interpretation of clinical and economic data to make informed decisions; we as pharmacists gifted in such skills can meet and exceed the employer's demands (when we are in the right fit). The conflict of interest between schools and the real world is pervasive and never ends. The lack of clarity and transparency in addition to such conflicts of interest is why "the struggle is real." Every institution of higher learning has their own mission, every setting of pharmacy operates differently than the last, and each area within that setting varies in its operational practices. Consistency is not our friend, but it is something we strive for.


Our NAPLEX pass rates are all higher than the state average (FL), and 3-5% lower than the national average. However, our school had the enrollment capped at less than 100 students per class during the 2018 graduating classes and beyond; other schools in FL continue to either increase their numbers or remain at similar enrollment figures to their previous years. We were the only institution who capped student enrollment after a bunch of students raised the oversaturation issue to administration. In case I was not clear, our institution agreed to cap the PharmD student enrollment during the year 2014 and continued to do so. Despite the lower number of students, our scores reflect the quality of our training in a positive light versus a negative light. One of our colleagues even graduated with autism, a disability that prevents executive functioning skills, multitasking, and working with teams; this is hardly ever seen in pharmacy, a noteworthy accomplishment to be sure. Some individuals may have mixed feelings about this, but the accomplishment protects the integrity of the institution and the value of their PharmD. Despite these accomplishments by our institution, there is clearly lots of work to be done.

The real question is: who is going to do the work? The other question is why is our profession not doing a better job?


As a profession, we can do better and we know we can do better; we just don't! That is why we see what we see.


From what I understand, part of the problem is that we have way too many entities controlling our profession and it's difficult to get anything done. Also, there are not many members of congress, if any, to represent pharmacy hence all the policy controlling boils down to who lobbies the hardest i.e. pharmaceutical companies. On top of that, most of the big companies that rule the pharmacy are run by by businessmen, not pharmacists. By law, they need pharmacists to push the pills out the door so it makes sense that they would want to produce as many pharmacists as possible and pay them as little as possible which is the reason for recent hike in number of pharmacy schools opening and the standards of acceptance getting lowered.

So I do agree with you in that we do need to do something about this... but what? and how?
 
You will do what tens of thousands of other students have done with lots of debt and a low paying job.

Move back home and default on the debt or do PAYE working at a fast food eatery or Walmart.

I took the NYPD exam, got called to come to the Academy but I turned it down after they told me I would have to quit being a pharmacist for the first year of being a cop. I was hoping to work full-time as a cop and moonlight as a pharmacist. I was also told there was a high chance of me being denied due to insane amounts of debt. Apparently, debt is a red flag because it could lead to taking bribes.
 
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I took the NYPD exam, got called to come to the Academy but I turned it down after they told me I would have to quit being a pharmacist for the first year of being a cop. I was hoping to work full-time as a cop and moonlight as a pharmacist. I was also told there was a high chance of me being denied due to insane amounts of debt. Apparently, debt is a red flag because it could lead to taking bribes.

Of ALL the things that would disqualify you...debt is the worst one?


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We were ready to hire a guy once. and HR rescinded the job offer because he had a lot of debt.

Was it student debt?

New grads must be really screwed if no one wants to hire them due to their $200k+ loans.
 
Of ALL the things that would disqualify you...debt is the worst one?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Weed use up to 1-2 years prior apparently can be an issue for the hair test. And my crazy driving history of speeding tickets apparently would show lack of respect for the law, another potential disqualifier.

Aced the exam though, everyone was telling me about how hard it was but I got a near perfect score.
 
I took the NYPD exam, got called to come to the Academy but I turned it down after they told me I would have to quit being a pharmacist for the first year of being a cop. I was hoping to work full-time as a cop and moonlight as a pharmacist. I was also told there was a high chance of me being denied due to insane amounts of debt. Apparently, debt is a red flag because it could lead to taking bribes.
Well you have your tricked out car that looks like a cop car so can't you just play some cops shows on youtube on your iphone via a 3.5mm jack into your car and then dress up like a cop and drive around your community role playing as a police officer?
 
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From what I understand, part of the problem is that we have way too many entities controlling our profession and it's difficult to get anything done. Also, there are not many members of congress, if any, to represent pharmacy hence all the policy controlling boils down to who lobbies the hardest i.e. pharmaceutical companies. On top of that, most of the big companies that rule the pharmacy are run by by businessmen, not pharmacists. By law, they need pharmacists to push the pills out the door so it makes sense that they would want to produce as many pharmacists as possible and pay them as little as possible which is the reason for recent hike in number of pharmacy schools opening and the standards of acceptance getting lowered.

So I do agree with you in that we do need to do something about this... but what? and how?

I discount nothing you are saying. Your question is also appropriate.

Here is my answer.

So many faculty say this answer constantly and I will say it here: GET INVOLVED; I say with politics. Understand the judicial process fully (not just the law class you take in pharmacy school) and get some people to help propose whatever resolution you have. Also have it proofread before submission so you have no issues articulating your viewpoint.

Even if the resolution does not pass, at least you understand the process and you can "lobby" for something else you are passionate about and/or find individuals in support of your cause.

I don't like politics, but at least I have the option to change something about my practice. Some do not get a voice (or choose not to voice their opinion due to harsh criticisms in a town-hall type environment or personal reasons).

If we are not involved with conviction, then pharmacy becomes "THEIR" profession not "OUR" profession.

Here is my question about training and education. What factors are preventing preceptors from "stepping up" and training their future pharmacists? Is it really the lobbyists' fault or is it pharmacists refusing to train? Which has more weight: our decision making or someone elses'?
 
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I discount nothing you are saying. Your question is also appropriate.

Here is my answer.

So many faculty say this answer constantly and I will say it here: GET INVOLVED; I say with politics. Understand the judicial process fully (not just the law class you take in pharmacy school) and get some people to help propose whatever resolution you have. Also have it proofread before submission so you have no issues articulating your viewpoint.

Even if the resolution does not pass, at least you understand the process and you can "lobby" for something else you are passionate about and/or find individuals in support of your cause.

I don't like politics, but at least I have the option to change something about my practice. Some do not get a voice (or choose not to voice their opinion due to harsh criticisms in a town-hall type environment or personal reasons).

If we are not involved with conviction, then pharmacy becomes "THEIR" profession not "OUR" profession.

I'm one of the more cynical members of this forum, and yet I agree with you 100%. Many of our problems are allowed to persist due to our inactivity and apathy. I would have said it was pointless to try even just a year ago, but I saw firsthand how a group of motivated individuals can affect change when we pushed the state to enact regulations against PBMs. We've yet to see the results of that legislation, but we saw that our collective power can force our politicians to act.

As a pharmacist, you have value. Your knowledge and judgement is necessary. The companies that employ you are only allowed to conduct business because you are present. The problem is we can only use our power if we work together.
 
I'm one of the more cynical members of this forum, and yet I agree with you 100%. Many of our problems are allowed to persist due to our inactivity and apathy. I would have said it was pointless to try even just a year ago, but I saw firsthand how a group of motivated individuals can affect change when we pushed the state to enact regulations against PBMs. We've yet to see the results of that legislation, but we saw that our collective power can force our politicians to act.

As a pharmacist, you have value. Your knowledge and judgement is necessary. The companies that employ you are only allowed to conduct business because you are present. The problem is we can only use our power if we work together.

So true. Why don't we?

The sky has already fell, but that is because we are letting it happen.

In FL, we as pharmacists also have to check the PDMP now for EVERY C-II PRESCRIPTION on a patient. Retail is gonna be a fun ride next year. Best part: physicians have to join us in the fun (certain specialties excluded of course). It is allowed because it is all in the name of patient safety.

It gives us something to do not to gripe about. :) This change also makes us seem more valuable than we think we are.

In case you are doubting the validity of the PDMP post, the link is here:

https://flmedical.org/Florida/Florida_Public/Docs/FMA-Opioid-HB21.pdf

Be prepared.
 
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So true. Why don't we?

The sky has already fell, but that is because we are letting it happen.

In FL, we as pharmacists also have to check the PDMP now for EVERY C-II PRESCRIPTION on a patient. Retail is gonna be a fun ride next year. Best part: physicians have to join us in the fun (certain specialties excluded of course). It is allowed because it is all in the name of patient safety.

It gives us something to do not to gripe about. :) This change also makes us seem more valuable than we think we are.

A great question. Why don't we? We are a conservative group. Pharmacists are rarely risk takers. We have been fortunate enough to benefit from skyrocketing salaries in recent years, and I think people have been more than happy to do the bidding of their employers rather than rock the boat. One can only hope that the changing of the tide will spur more of us to become active in fighting for our profession.

As a former FL pharmacist, I feel your pain. As a pharmacist who hopes to return to the sunshine state someday (many, many years from now.. preferably as a wealthy man who owns a boat and doesn't have to work), I hope everything works out.
 
A great question. Why don't we? We are a conservative group. Pharmacists are rarely risk takers. We have been fortunate enough to benefit from skyrocketing salaries in recent years, and I think people have been more than happy to do the bidding of their employers rather than rock the boat. One can only hope that the changing of the tide will spur more of us to become active in fighting for our profession.

As a former FL pharmacist, I feel your pain. As a pharmacist who hopes to return to the sunshine state someday (many, many years from now.. preferably as a wealthy man who owns a boat and doesn't have to work), I hope everything works out.

I asked an independent pharmacist in FL about employment opportunities; the pharmacy was booked for four years out. That same pharmacist who worked in an independent pharmacy in FL asked me about their employment prospects, in the off-chance they decided to venture out.

I told them the truth.

We need feelings AND a strategy for growth. I am seeking to move out of the FL area as soon as possible (once the finances are situated). Some pharmacists also feel with the current job market, they may not be able to transition into something else within pharmacy (circumstances as always) or choose not to take additional training to meet that goal.

PM me and we can talk further.

An old friend of mine works as an engineer, has a boat, and recently had a baby. Yes, he does live in Florida. I attended an engineering program back in high school and I love data when it is transparently reported. I feel like I went to the wrong school to promote my career.
 
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Gotten so bad that the NABP has pulled down this year stats, or at least put them somewhere I can't find them.
https://nabp.pharmacy/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/NAPLEX-Pass-Rates-2017.pdf

The link is still on the NABP website. No worries. Unless they were protecting something, they would not remove such data without our knowledge. Otherwise they would be discouraging transparency of data, a big no-no when dealing with an astute (not dumb) public; price transparency is something the public is outraged with when they pay too much for medications. We are trained that the public is dumb: the majority of people, however, are not. This is a real conflict of interest when students are trained. Programs such as SecondLife with premade avatars based on TV tropes do not help matters, unless suitable technology can be used to integrate the avatars and make them more real. That kind of technology costs money; lots of money. In case you guys do not know, SecondLife is a second-rate version of CGI with comparable graphics of the original Resident Evil 1 and not equipped to handle Healthcare 3.0 due to lack of technology.

It would be nice if someone could make a running tally of the NABP data (NAPLEX and MPJE) over the next 10-15 years or longer, then put it together with data from many of the years prior to 2014. Then have each state create its own database to keep track of graduation and employment outcomes (as pharmacists or as some other category). Maybe we can find trends, the numbers of graduates, tangible reasons for the oversaturation, students who attained pharmacist licensure, and solutions to address the oversaturation problem and the lack of jobs. Then place the reasons and solutions in a document and generate a proposal. The outcomes the Accreditation Council for Pharmacy Education (ACPE) tracks are not good enough.

The question is: to whom or to what organization do we send the data to enact change?
 
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