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Alternatively view it this way: The world just became completely level. There is no "DO" bias. But don't jump to conclusions and call me idealistic. Please view it this way.

Everything counts in an application. Just like in med school, a similar candidate from Harvard and Rolling River Community College will be viewed VERY differently. Not a little differently.... very. Hell, even a similar candidate from a small no-name liberal arts college and some county catch basin public college would be looked at very differently. Now apply it to residency. You are looking at people and *where* they come from matters a lot, so school matters a lot. By making all residencies equally qualified you make a de facto precendent that the training is equivalent between the two (not that each residency is equally educational, only that every single person can pass the same minimum threshold). This means that *quite* quickly DO school affiliation stops mattering. It doesn't change that nearly every DO school will fall below nearly every MD school in the US when you evaluate their value on an application, but it does firmly cement the caribbean ones below the DO ones when you do that.

Leveling the playing field means you earn what you earn. Does that mean people will lose out on some stuff? sure. But someone like myself, who likes the challenge, I like to know that in the "big picture" this does TONS for the credibility of DOs within medical education and I don't think having a level playing field is a terrible thing. It was unfairly good to us for a long time. Going to "fair" is never a bad thing unless youre being selfish (which youre allowed to do)
This is incredibly spot on. Besides, would the AOA being on the board permit discrimination over time? No way. Even if just for show and tell many programs will take the token DO and over time people will lose stereotypes. Also it forces DO programs to have higher standards in all aspects. Our generation will pave this, but the upside is that into our career we'll be seen as equal.

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DO apps probably won't change at all tbh. It'll increase the same way as it dir as projected.
Most premeds don't have a clue about SDN and what is happening. They simply know what their advisors say.
I wager you are wrong. MD schools reject 60% of applicants. You think a good chunk won't take DO over re-applying now that all is equal?
 
I have a dream that by 2075 all physicians will have a unified title.
 
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I feel so late to the party! This is excellent news, no matter how many possible negatives you can think of. This day is massive ladies and gentlemen!

Not an adcom, but its a stretch to say that most premeds will even know about the change, and I doubt anyone will even take this into account when applying, so no, Liberty University isn't going to become Harvard in 3 months.
 
I can see some sort of system where allopathic schools offer some sort of elective OMM course over the summer after first year. It would also make sense for the COMLEX to be phased out and an osteopathic section add-on to the USMLE for DO students and those MD students who took OMM as an elective.
If our generation is smart, we can push for USMLE only and compromise on an additional OMM test to the USMLE. That day is when we will truly have parity.
 
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Not an adcom, but its a stretch to say that most premeds will even know about the change, and I doubt anyone will even take this into account when applying, so no, Liberty University isn't going to become Harvard in 3 months.

I doubt this. While a lot of premeds may not get what this means, many will (again probably not the majority), but many in areas that have a lot of DO and MD schools will.

The thing is there are still a lot of people with competitive stats that get rejected from MD schools, by a hair. Those people that might have scoffed at DO schools (and despite what we like to believe there are many people like that) before will take an extra look. Now I doubt the changes will be particularly immense or sudden, but I would be surprised if DO schools didn't see an increase in the rate of application growth and applicant stats than were previously projected.
 
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I wager you are wrong. MD schools reject 60% of applicants. You think a good chunk won't take DO over re-applying now that all is equal?


you think a good chunk a) know about this and b) know what it means ?

further, things still aren't equal. PD's aren't suddenly going to start accepting DO's to programs where they aren't currently accepted. For the MD hopeful (or anyone for that matter), going to DO is, in all likelihood, going to limit their chances at at certain residencies. When PD's stop discriminating against DO's THEN we'll see an uptick in DO admission stats.

For anyone who thinks this is going to lead to an increase in DO applicants, you must also believe there will be no, or less bias against DO's for certain residencies...no?
 
you think a good chunk a) know about this and b) know what it means ?

further, things still aren't equal. PD's aren't suddenly going to start accepting DO's to programs where they aren't currently accepted. For the MD hopeful (or anyone for that matter), going to DO is, in all likelihood, going to limit their chances at at certain residencies. When PD's stop discriminating against DO's THEN we'll see an uptick in DO admission stats.
I understood what this meant when I was a pre-med. You're underestimating what got DO school in the map: the internet.
 
I understood what this meant when I was a pre-med. You're underestimating what got DO school in the map: the internet.


Do you believe the current barriers DO's face in landing more competitive residencies will diminish in the short term (5ish years) as a result?
 
I hope that DO becomes slightly more competitive so admission stats can finally go up.

Question: Will this make Carib MDs more competitive for residencies than DOs because of their MD title?

Do you mean for AOA residencies? Why would DOs discriminate against DOs????? I still wish some of the more competitive AOA residencies will still favor DOs since I'm pretty sure competitive MD residencies will still favor MDs.

Does this merger change the rules of some MD residencies so that they can no longer bar DOs from applying to their program?
 
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Do you believe the current barriers DO's face in landing more competitive residencies will diminish in the short term (5ish years) as a result?
I don't know. What I do know is that if the MD world doesn't make an effort at all to include us, they will lose the opportunity to absorb us, which is their ultimate goal. The AOA will be on the board. Trust that they will advocate on our behalf because it's in their best interest too to be seen as equals.
 
@Goro - question for you...

How are you and/or other adcoms expecting this to play a role in incoming class stats? If I'm applying for DO in June, will I now be looking at incoming class averages of 30 and 3.6+?



You asking if LUCOM will jump their averages to a 30, 3.6+?
 
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I don't know. What I do know is that if the MD world doesn't make an effort at all to include us, they will lose the opportunity to absorb us, which is their ultimate goal. The AOA will be on the board. Trust that they will advocate on our behalf because it's in their best interest too to be seen as equals.

If you/we are unsure about the barriers of entry to more competitive DO's being diminished, what is the logical basis behind the statement that DO schools will suddenly have an uptick of applicants? Is it simply because 10 or so years from now, DO's will be seen as "equals"?

For all intents and purposes, the bias is still there, at least in the short term. And the short term is really all that matters to people applying in the present.
 
Guys. Stop arguing about this and let me have my happy moment.
 
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I hope that DO becomes slightly more competitive so admission stats can finally go up. I think we


Do you mean for AOA residencies? Why would DOs discriminate against DOs????? I still wish some of the more competitive AOA residencies will still favor DOs since I'm pretty sure competitive MD residencies will still favor MDs.

Does this merger change the rules of some MD residencies so that they can no longer bar DOs from applying to their program?

Contrary to my belief that essentially a bum off the street can get into LUCOM with a magical 24 on the MCAT and a 3.1 from the worst college in america, I do believe this merger will make DO schools slightly more competitive, more so for the "upper" DO's and I think it is fair to say we can pretty much categorize those ones now.
 
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I wonder if actual DO tiers will arise now. ... interesting
 
Do you guys think the combined match will be in place for the class graduating in 2018? It would be a dream come true to combine the two test by then too. Who wants to take 2 6-7 hr test that cost $500 each?
 
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Well MAYBEEEEE... now DO shadowing will be looked upon more heavily when DO schools go through apps to ensure the applicant knows what he/she is getting into and not applying just as a backup??? (I'm just guessing to make myself feel better LOL)
 
If you/we are unsure about the barriers of entry to more competitive DO's being diminished, what is the logical basis behind the statement that DO schools will suddenly have an uptick of applicants? Is it simply because 10 or so years from now, DO's will be seen as "equals"?

For all intents and purposes, the bias is still there, at least in the short term. And the short term is really all that matters to people applying in the present.
I disagree because I believe there is a good chunk of people that avoided DO on fear of not matching ACGME. This includes people that want primary care but were worried their training would be seen as inferior or would not have international practice rights in Canada where they require in many provinces to have completed an ACGME residency.

Time will tell.
 
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I'm not sure how to feel about this. feel good on many aspects though a bit worried on others. like how MDs will now be able to apply to AOA spots that were once only refuge for DOs. though the wording "There will be prerequisite competencies and a recommended program of training for MD graduates who apply for entry into osteopathic-focused programs." is slightly vague but if states that MDs have to have OMM knowledge and be tested beforehand, that would make me feel a lot better. this could be a great thing for many reasons though

Now we worry about MD people applying for AOA residencies! LOL I knew this is the next item on the "List of things to worry about"
 
Now we worry about MD people applying for AOA residencies! LOL I knew this is the next item on the "List of things to worry about"
IMGs will also be able to apply to osteo residencies if the match is unified. This is good all around, as many of the osteo programs that had no matches will at least be able to scoop up foreign grads that are highly qualified, society will have more doctors, and the DO and MD worlds are getting closer to merging. It's like an orgy- everyone wins!
 
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Do you guys think the combined match will be in place for the class graduating in 2018? It would be a dream come true to combine the two test by then too. Who wants to take 2 6-7 hr test that cost $500 each?

lol the USMLE is 8-9 hours, and costs way more than $500
 
IMGs will also be able to apply to osteo residencies if the match is unified. This is good all around, as many of the osteo programs that had no matches will at least be able to scoop up foreign grads that are highly qualified, society will have more doctors, and the DO and MD worlds are getting closer to merging. It's like an orgy- everyone wins!
The DOs are gonna be on the receiving end.
 
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Seriously, I better get in this cycle because people are gonna be flooding in
Worry not. It takes years to build a competitive app. Those who were already competitive were already ahead of you. Those who aren't are behind you. Just keep on keepin' on.
 
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I think everyone agrees on that. No need to get matching BFF bracelets just yet

The biggest revolution would be Haxx/User3 getting BFF bracelets and Me/You+the rest of the pre-DO's BFF bracelets.
 
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The biggest revolution would be Haxx/User3 getting BFF bracelets and Me/You+the rest of the pre-DO's BFF bracelets.

Me and @Dave89 getting BFF bracelets would be the biggest upset of the century lol

I think serenade and user3 would also be a solid choice.

Trolol
 
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You asking if LUCOM will jump their averages to a 30, 3.6+?

I want to know this as well, since I am applying in June and retaking my 26 MCAT next month. My GPAs are 3.53 cumulative and 3.27 science.
 
part of me worries it'll be more like a bukakke and the DOs are gonna be on the receiving end.

0g8uo.gif


I want to know this as well, since I am applying in June and retaking my 26 MCAT next month. My GPAs are 3.53 cumulative and 3.27 science.

You will be fine.
 
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Omg I'm saving that. Epic
 
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Yes, it's old data, and for USMLE, but a score 25 and lower shows an increased risk for both failing out of medical school, and poor performance on USMLE. I have yet to see any data that shows a correlation between MCAT scores an my own students' performance on COMLEX.

Unfortunately, the COMs are loath to share board score data, so it's hard to see it MCAT performance applies to them.

Is there any data that shows correlation between low MCAT scores and low board scores?
 
I think what we'll see is the IMGs having a harder and harder time getting residency slots, and DOs becoming either more competitive for, or more prevalent in, specialties. Time will tell.

@Goro - question for you...

How are you and/or other adcoms expecting this to play a role in incoming class stats? If I'm applying for DO in June, will I now be looking at incoming class averages of 30 and 3.6+?
 
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I have been dying to use this as a response for months:

Question: Will this make Carib MDs more competitive for residencies than DOs because of their MD title?

This is a legitimate question! I happen to think the BIG 4 carib might do better better because of that 'merger'....
 
So MDs and DOs share the same water fountain now...Interesting.
 
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Concur. But at the least, we'll see less posts here like "I'm interested in DO, but I'm afraid I won't be able to specialize in X".

Not an adcom, but its a stretch to say that most premeds will even know about the change, and I doubt anyone will even take this into account when applying, so no, Liberty University isn't going to become Harvard in 3 months.
 
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I think what we'll see is the IMGs having a harder and harder time getting residency slots, and DOs becoming either more competitive for, or more prevalent in, specialties. Time will tell.

What do you think will be the next major change for osteopathic medicine? Will we see reductions of OMM? What about comlex? Do you think this is a step to a degree merger?
 
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So MDs and DOs share the same water fountain now...Interesting.
We were always be able drink from the same fountain as MDs. But before there used to be a DO only fountain and an MD and DO fountain. Caribbean grads drank whatever puddled on the ground next to the fountains.
 
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I'm sorry, maybe my terminology could've been stated better: how about a Cincinnati bowtie?
That's disgusting.

At least ******* is kind of mainstream. ..

Damn I think I need to get out more
 
ok here is what I want to know: what year will the combined match begin? any certainty as to when? It would suck if it was delayed until 2020.
 
ok here is what I want to know: what year will the combined match begin? any certainty as to when? It would suck if it was delayed until 2020.

No certainty as to the when, since that is managed by NRMP. The AOA info released today says that a unified match is likely in the future, though.
 
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