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I believe that Do have the best shot of getting into a good residency. Mainly because they can partake in the MD residencies and the exclusive DO residencies. However DO do have consiquences, if you want to practice outside of the US, you might not be able to. But if you stay in the US, which 99.99 percent will do, then DO is a good opportunity. I would apply to a DO program, but I am unable to get a LOTR from a doctor, so I am left with the Carb. and low ranking MD schools. However, if I do get a letter I am applying to all 3 programs.

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What do you mean equalized? Because an SGU 225 is not a US MD 225 in the eyes of residency.
Is it not the same exam. Just because a USMG scores a 225 compared to a IMG scoring a 225 does not mean the USMG is better than a IMG, vise-versa.

If you compare to all USMG, why do USMG not compare themselves to graduates from Standford, UCSF, or John Hopkins? just because you graduated from a US school does not mean that you can put yourself in the same ranks as students from these schools.
So what you have indicated that someone who scores a 225 from UCSF is better than someone scoring a 225 from New York Med? Or do you think they are the same?
 
This is a strange comment. I thought Canadians have one of the hardest times finding residencies compared to U.S. medical students. Also all med schools are equalized by the USMLE exams, so the basis of your claim is strange.

Canadians can apply for Canadian residencies. They have a harder time getting into medical school than we do.
And I didn't refer to usmle at all so I have no idea what the basis of the basis of my claim is in your eyes.

I am simply saying that the Americans at SGU have lower stats than their averages show. Canadians with very strong scores are heavily represented in SGU because Canadian schools are impossible to get into.
 
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I want to apply to SGU and Ross. However my first pick is SGU. Can you please tell me the statistics of my chances of being accepted? I am actually really worried I wont get accepted. Can you please tell me how your interviews went, and how long it took for you to hear back?

If you have a pulse you can get into Ross. If you have a 3.4/25 you'll get into SGU.
 
Canadians can apply for Canadian residencies. They have a harder time getting into medical school than we do.
And I didn't refer to usmle at all so I have no idea what the basis of the basis of my claim is in your eyes.

I am simply saying that the Americans at SGU have lower stats than their averages show. Canadians with very strong scores are heavily represented in SGU because Canadian schools are impossible to get into.
I misunderstood you, my apologies.
 
Yes, my Mcat is much higher, same goes for my GPA. Thank you.

Then consider a year off instead of scavenging like a desperate buzzard for a pitiful FM 2 bed program in Wyoming.
 
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Is it not the same exam. Just because a USMG scores a 225 compared to a IMG scoring a 225 does not mean the USMG is better than a IMG, vise-versa.

If you compare to all USMG, why do USMG not compare themselves to graduates from Standford, UCSF, or John Hopkins? just because you graduated from a US school does not mean that you can put yourself in the same ranks as students from these schools.
So what you have indicated that someone who scores a 225 from UCSF is better than someone scoring a 225 from New York Med? Or do you think they are the same?
How programs evaluate you is not up to me, but yes, for purposes of residency Puerto Rican MD on probation > any IMG (assuming equal Step score).
 
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I agree with this. Unfortunately, Canadians have an impossible time matching too. It just sucks to be a Canadian premed unless you are THE best. So glad I'm a dual citizen.

In fairness, Canadian schools have some provisions that help students out. Many schools have policies that drop a certain number of credits, or only consider a certain number of credits for admission. For example, University of Western Ontario judges admission based on your two best years of full time (30 credit hours; September-April) of work. Of course, the cut off is a 3.7, but it does allow for one to have more of a chance.

There are schools like U of Ottawa that don't consider the MCAT at all, but have a hard admissions cut off of 3.9 in your last 3 full time years.
 
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In fairness, Canadian schools have some provisions that help students out. Many schools have policies that drop a certain number of credits, or only consider a certain number of credits for admission. For example, University of Western Ontario judges admission based on your two best years of full time (30 credit hours; September-April) of work. Of course, the cut off is a 3.7, but it does allow for one to have more of a chance.

There are schools like U of Ottawa that don't consider the MCAT at all, but have a hard admissions cut off of 3.9 in your last 3 full time years.

I never knew about this.

Tell me more.
 
I never knew about this.

Tell me more.

Most schools have some policy that drops x amount of credits depending on how many years of full time studies (28-30 credits from september to april) that you've done. Most Canadian schools will try to avoid American applicants (I think) and most, if not all of them, do not consider repeated classes. It is incredibly difficult to get into a Canadian medical school. It sucks for someone like me who spend 4 years partying and ended up with a 1.96 GPA. I have since then gone back to school and have the cut offs for about 4 schools.

The other thing that sucks is the AMCAS grade conversion is significantly better for me. I have a 3.88 on Ontario's med school application system and a 4.0 (for my post bacc) on AMCAS.
 
Most schools have some policy that drops x amount of credits depending on how many years of full time studies (28-30 credits from september to april) that you've done. Most Canadian schools will try to avoid American applicants (I think) and most, if not all of them, do not consider repeated classes. It is incredibly difficult to get into a Canadian medical school. It sucks for someone like me who spend 4 years partying and ended up with a 1.96 GPA. I have since then gone back to school and have the cut offs for about 4 schools.

The other thing that sucks is the AMCAS grade conversion is significantly better for me. I have a 3.88 on Ontario's med school application system and a 4.0 (for my post bacc) on AMCAS.
Wow, why is the Gpa calculation that much different?

Also, in reading your post I can see why a lot of Canadians go for a second bachelors in order to get into a school.

The other thing that is a bit politically incorrect to say is thay it is much more difficult to get a 3.0 in Canada than it is in the USA barring schools like U Chicago.
 
I agree with this. Unfortunately, Canadians have an impossible time matching too. It just sucks to be a Canadian premed unless you are THE best. So glad I'm a dual citizen.

I heard they have pretty solid match statistics. But who knows, I've never really looked into Maplesyrup Transfusionology or Mooseantler paradigm Cardiothoracic wilderness surgery.
 
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In fairness, Canadian schools have some provisions that help students out. Many schools have policies that drop a certain number of credits, or only consider a certain number of credits for admission. For example, University of Western Ontario judges admission based on your two best years of full time (30 credit hours; September-April) of work. Of course, the cut off is a 3.7, but it does allow for one to have more of a chance.

There are schools like U of Ottawa that don't consider the MCAT at all, but have a hard admissions cut off of 3.9 in your last 3 full time years.


And the other ones have Mcat scores that border far above even Harvard.
 
SGU's average stats is about on par with most DO schools, many SGU students I know could have gotten into DO programs but decided to choose that path. Oh and I have seen match lists at low tier MD schools, they surpass even more established DO schools.

Many SGU students are Canadian or Foreign. Keep that in mind...
 
Im still annoyed that Columbia Presby takes SGU students for their IM program but will outright reject any DO student no matter the stats.

They rather take a foreign educated student than one bred in their own backyard (i.e. NYCOM).
 
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Wow, why is the Gpa calculation that much different?

Also, in reading your post I can see why a lot of Canadians go for a second bachelors in order to get into a school.

The other thing that is a bit politically incorrect to say is thay it is much more difficult to get a 3.0 in Canada than it is in the USA barring schools like U Chicago.

My school has A and A+; A = 3.8 and A+ = 4.0, but for AMCAS they both translate to a 4.0. It's largely inconsequential. Once i'm in the interview room, almost everything depends on how well I do in the interview.

When I did my first degree, one of the main professors told us that we're all likely to graduate with 1.8 GPAs as that is the average GPA for a Math/Stats/Comp Sci student at the school.

And the other ones have Mcat scores that border far above even Harvard.

Yeah. Our ECs are a bit different. Not as much emphasis on clinical work or research. Also, some schools will significantly lower the cut offs if you have a graduate degree. U of Toronto will take people holding Masters or PhDs if they have a crapload of solid publications.

I have to consider the Caribbean/Australia/Ireland myself. I'm not competitive at DO or MD programs in the US because of my past degree (I cannot do grade replacement on upper year mathematics classes because I'm not confident I can get an A). If I don't get in my first cycle in Canada, I'll probably do a 1-2 year course based Masters in Epi or another Bioinformatics and then apply again.
 
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For Canadians returning to Canada, it's a brutal match because they are only eligible for the "second iteration" which is basically all of the leftover spots.
For Canadians trying to match in the USA, they need to target programs that sponsor H1B visas. Their chances are around 30% and that is if they have no blemishes. I got this stat from the NRMP outcomes pdf.

All around, it's much easier to be a premed in the USA. That's why when Canadians ask about their chances my first question is "can you move to the USA?" These days I'm noticing more Canadians getting into DO schools especially with Canadian-specific programs like the one at MSUCOM. They would be well aware of the rigors of Canadian education and may cut the average Canadian some slack.

It's rough for Canadians. I do not want to go overseas; too expensive, poor match rates. I know a few who have gone overseas and were unable to match. I'm not sure if they qualify for academic roles, but I also don't think many who go overseas would consider academic roles. Some of the UK/Ireland schools are very high quality, they must produce graduates who are ready for academia.
 
I want to apply to SGU and Ross. However my first pick is SGU. Can you please tell me the statistics of my chances of being accepted? I am actually really worried I wont get accepted. Can you please tell me how your interviews went, and how long it took for you to hear back?

Are you Canadian? If not, I would reconsider. I heard back from SGU within a month (2 wks after app for interview scheduled 1 wk later, then 1 wk after interview for the decision). It was a very easy process. Also, apparently SGU counts grade replacement, but I didn't realize this when I applied, so I applied with a GPA ~.4 points lower, but maybe they figured it didn't matter given a big difference in my undergrad performance vs. my post-bac performance.

The interview involved me writing a paragraph about something (first 10 min of interview). I think it was why I wanted to be a doc or something very basic like that. That was followed by very laid back questions, then I asked questions, then it was over. Very straightforward interview.

...However DO do have consiquences, if you want to practice outside of the US, you might not be able to. But if you stay in the US, which 99.99 percent will do, then DO is a good opportunity. I would apply to a DO program, but I am unable to get a LOTR from a doctor, so I am left with the Carb. and low ranking MD schools. However, if I do get a letter I am applying to all 3 programs.

Double check that a Carib MD is accepted wherever you imagine yourself going. Carib MD does NOT equal a US/Canadian MD. I first thought the way you did (an MD is an MD), but after I researched it more, I found numerous countries that did NOT recognize a degree from SGU, but recognized a DO degree (of course the opposite is true in some cases as well, and in others either degree is recognized or not recognized). After looking at that, I realized it was not reasonable to risk going to the Carib when the degree wouldn't have universal practice rights in the country of my choice to begin with. Unless you find that SGU graduates are actively practicing in your country of interest, I would not make that the basis of your decision.

You need to get an LOR from a doctor. There is no reason for you not to. You should be able to shadow a doc relatively easily and get an LOR from them. You will need to do this for applying to residency in 4-5 yrs, so you should get used to it now and keep your options open. I strongly recommend applying to US schools.

Is it not the same exam. Just because a USMG scores a 225 compared to a IMG scoring a 225 does not mean the USMG is better than a IMG, vise-versa.

If you compare to all USMG, why do USMG not compare themselves to graduates from Standford, UCSF, or John Hopkins? just because you graduated from a US school does not mean that you can put yourself in the same ranks as students from these schools.
So what you have indicated that someone who scores a 225 from UCSF is better than someone scoring a 225 from New York Med? Or do you think they are the same?

The thing is if you come out of the Carib with an average or below average Step 1 score, you are guaranteeing a very hard match process (and possibly not matching). US MD grads with average or slightly below average Step 1 scores consistently match, and in most cases never even have to worry about potentially not matching.

The Carib grads that I know that are successful are the ones getting 240+ on the Step, applied to 100+ programs, and struggled to get into community (university-affiliated) IM programs.

Regardless of how knowledgeable or good an individual may be, program directors still discriminate, and the truth is for Carib MDs that discrimination is steeper. There is discrimination for DOs as well, but it tends to be less severe than for Carib MDs (based on what I've heard from those in the process).

Yes, my Mcat is much higher, same goes for my GPA. Thank you.

If this is the case and you are a US applicant (i.e. not Canadian), you should be applying to US MD and DO schools first. If you apply and fail to get in, that's OK, the Caribbean will always be there as a last resort, just don't make it your first because you are worried about shadowing a doc or getting an LOR.
 
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Im still annoyed that Columbia Presby takes SGU students for their IM program but will outright reject any DO student no matter the stats.

They rather take a foreign educated student than one bred in their own backyard (i.e. NYCOM).

Tufts Orthopedics has taken IMGs but no DOs. Life was never meant to be fair.
 
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How long do you guys think till the comlex is reduced to a OMM only exam and we all just take usmle?
 
Are you Canadian? If not, I would reconsider. I heard back from SGU within a month (2 wks after app for interview scheduled 1 wk later, then 1 wk after interview for the decision). It was a very easy process. Also, apparently SGU counts grade replacement, but I didn't realize this when I applied, so I applied with a GPA ~.4 points lower, but maybe they figured it didn't matter given a big difference in my undergrad performance vs. my post-bac performance.

The interview involved me writing a paragraph about something (first 10 min of interview). I think it was why I wanted to be a doc or something very basic like that. That was followed by very laid back questions, then I asked questions, then it was over. Very straightforward interview.



Double check that a Carib MD is accepted wherever you imagine yourself going. Carib MD does NOT equal a US/Canadian MD. I first thought the way you did (an MD is an MD), but after I researched it more, I found numerous countries that did NOT recognize a degree from SGU, but recognized a DO degree (of course the opposite is true in some cases as well, and in others either degree is recognized or not recognized). After looking at that, I realized it was not reasonable to risk going to the Carib when the degree wouldn't have universal practice rights in the country of my choice to begin with. Unless you find that SGU graduates are actively practicing in your country of interest, I would not make that the basis of your decision.

You need to get an LOR from a doctor. There is no reason for you not to. You should be able to shadow a doc relatively easily and get an LOR from them. You will need to do this for applying to residency in 4-5 yrs, so you should get used to it now and keep your options open. I strongly recommend applying to US schools.



The thing is if you come out of the Carib with an average or below average Step 1 score, you are guaranteeing a very hard match process (and possibly not matching). US MD grads with average or slightly below average Step 1 scores consistently match, and in most cases never even have to worry about potentially not matching.

The Carib grads that I know that are successful are the ones getting 240+ on the Step, applied to 100+ programs, and struggled to get into community (university-affiliated) IM programs.

Regardless of how knowledgeable or good an individual may be, program directors still discriminate, and the truth is for Carib MDs that discrimination is steeper. There is discrimination for DOs as well, but it tends to be less severe than for Carib MDs (based on what I've heard from those in the process).



If this is the case and you are a US applicant (i.e. not Canadian), you should be applying to US MD and DO schools first. If you apply and fail to get in, that's OK, the Caribbean will always be there as a last resort, just don't make it your first because you are worried about shadowing a doc or getting an LOR.

Thank you, I mainly started looking at SGU because a lot of my highschool friends seems to have success at that school. They got match into residency, they did well on their USMLE step 1 and 2. At the same time, I have talked to another highschool friend who went into podiatry school in the U.S. due to her Mcat-27. She and her husband, a surgeon has suggested that if I were to do Internal medicine, I would be fine going to a Carb school. The issue to me is the residency crunch. I have read a lot of rumors but I doubt it will just effect IMG, it will affect every MG.
I have looked into Touro, Kansas city, Lecom , and Arizona. I have read many scary incidents about Lecom, students complaining about "residencies just dropping out of the blue due to the school." I have also read that Obama passed a law to increase residency position, unsure which field though.

My concern is that I apply for 1-2 years, and get rejected. Worst comes to worst I wasted 2 years of my life, and attend a Carb school. But what scares me more is the idea that a lot can change within 1 to 2 years. How the DO and MD programs recently merged, and how medical schools are opening up everywhere. And depending who our next president is, we will either see an increase in residency positions.

I have thought a lot about this issue and although it might be easy for you to obtain a LOTR from a Dr., I have a huge research background, so it is easier for me to obtain letters of recs from professors and researchers. I have obtained 3 letters of recs from researchers/ PI. I have asked my family physician, but his wife who runs the front of the desk just loves money. So she basically said no. But I know if it was up to my physician, he would be okay with it. On my last checkup, he told me that with my scores, I can try to get to a MD program in the states, but I would be very competitive for DO and Carb schools. He also told me that at this point no one cares where you graduate from, they are all the same. My doctor is a USMG, interned at Stanford.

I want to thank you for addressing my concerns. It is not that I am impatient, it is the idea that the medical community is changing at an accelerated rate. I do not want to be stuck with loans and unable to find residency coming from a DO school, US MD, or Carb school.


Also may I ask which school you are planning to attend? I know you said you got into SGU, but it sounds like you do not want to go there. Maybe you got into another school that you have not mentioned?
 
Thank you, I mainly started looking at SGU because a lot of my highschool friends seems to have success at that school. They got match into residency, they did well on their USMLE step 1 and 2. At the same time, I have talked to another highschool friend who went into podiatry school in the U.S. due to her Mcat-27. She and her husband, a surgeon has suggested that if I were to do Internal medicine, I would be fine going to a Carb school. The issue to me is the residency crunch. I have read a lot of rumors but I doubt it will just effect IMG, it will affect every MG.
I have looked into Touro, Kansas city, Lecom , and Arizona. I have read many scary incidents about Lecom, students complaining about "residencies just dropping out of the blue due to the school." I have also read that Obama passed a law to increase residency position, unsure which field though.

My concern is that I apply for 1-2 years, and get rejected. Worst comes to worst I wasted 2 years of my life, and attend a Carb school. But what scares me more is the idea that a lot can change within 1 to 2 years. How the DO and MD programs recently merged, and how medical schools are opening up everywhere. And depending who our next president is, we will either see an increase in residency positions.

I have thought a lot about this issue and although it might be easy for you to obtain a LOTR from a Dr., I have a huge research background, so it is easier for me to obtain letters of recs from professors and researchers. I have obtained 3 letters of recs from researchers/ PI. I have asked my family physician, but his wife who runs the front of the desk just loves money. So she basically said no. But I know if it was up to my physician, he would be okay with it. On my last checkup, he told me that with my scores, I can try to get to a MD program in the states, but I would be very competitive for DO and Carb schools. He also told me that at this point no one cares where you graduate from, they are all the same. My doctor is a USMG, interned at Stanford.

I want to thank you for addressing my concerns. It is not that I am impatient, it is the idea that the medical community is changing at an accelerated rate. I do not want to be stuck with loans and unable to find residency coming from a DO school, US MD, or Carb school.


Also may I ask which school you are planning to attend? I know you said you got into SGU, but it sounds like you do not want to go there. Maybe you got into another school that you have not mentioned?

You are kind of a bit all over the place here, so lets address each 1 by 1.

1) The Carib (SGU in particular) were in the past perfectly fine options. As you noted though, things have gotten harder for IMGs than they once were, mainly because of relative stagnation in residency positions and a significant increase in US MD and DO schools.

2) Obama can't pass a law for more residencies without congressional support (as far as I understand it). The truth is for the last 5-6 years either the president or congress has tried to expand residencies through medicare funding, but each year the bills have been dead in the water. That means that there certainly is a general stagnation in residencies that will affect all med graduates (hurting the IMGs the most and DOs next).

3) As far as LECOM students having "residencies dropped", I think you are confusing residencies and rotations. A residency is a GME, a rotation is a 4 week training program under a medical preceptor (MD or DO). Rotations occur throughout 3rd and 4th year of medical school. Sometimes rotations do get dropped at a school. This especially happens at DO and Carib schools, but there are usually other options of rotations available to students. Residency is the GME that trains you after graduating from medical school. First off, LECOM has consistently expanded and added new GME programs with its affiliates (via LECOMT) for the last few years. Secondly, residents don't get their residencies dropped, unless either the hospital loses accreditation (nothing to do with a school) or the resident gets fired (relatively rare).

Now LECOM has recently had its UPMC rotations dropped (last year), but as I've mentioned (having close ties to UPMC) this seems to have been more of a political/financial move with regards to the Highmark/Allegheny Health vs. UPMC feud. This has nothing to do with GME, all this means is that now LECOM students have to rotate at some of the 100-some odd other LECOM affiliates during 3rd and 4th year as opposed to UPMC sites. This year UPMC still matched many LECOM students into affiliated residencies programs (including RadOnc in Presby - bam!).

4) I'm almost done with MS1 at LECOM, but don't let my choice sway you. Any DO school on your list is fine, just make your decision (after you apply and get in of course) based on which one you like the best, is reasonably priced, and you think you would succeed most in.

The thing is, as an IMG, you may have a very unstable future. Who knows how state laws may change (generally speaking they have been consistently getting less IMG-friendly). Because you will never be a graduate from a US school, you will consistently have to jump through more hoops each time you apply for a state licensure. We all have hoops to jump through, but if your intention is to practice in the US, it is much safer and easier to go to a DO school than it is to attend any Carib school (even the best one). Now if you can't handle having DO behind your name, that's a different story...

Regardless of whether you are a US MD or DO, you should be able to secure a residency in the not too distant future. Very few people go unmatched, and even fewer go completely without finding a GME. The same really can't be said about all Carib grads, and even SGU grads. At the same time, the US will always be invested in the DO profession much more than a foreign program, because the schools are actually here, in the US, making money for each of states that they are in.

Now I'm not going to sit here and tell you your life will be over if you go to SGU. Its likely that many SGU grads will continue to match for at least the foreseeable future. That said, if your goal is stability, less unnecessary hurdles, and a more secure outlook for the future, DO is a much safer option than SGU.

My recommendation is to get your ducks in a row, get that doc letter and apply broadly and early to US MD schools and DO schools. If you can't get one from your doc, just start cold calling other docs and asking them if you can shadow them, or ask your PIs if they can introduce you to any MDs or DOs that you can shadow and then get a letter from. When I applied, I had 3 PI letters (2 were also MDs though), a DO letter, 4 faculty letters, and a physical therapist (extracurricular) letter. Just get as many letters as you can, and pick and choose which ones to send to what school.
 
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You are kind of a bit all over the place here, so lets address each 1 by 1.

1) The Carib (SGU in particular) were in the past perfectly fine options. As you noted though, things have gotten harder for IMGs than they once were, mainly because of relative stagnation in residency positions and a significant increase in US MD and DO schools.

2) Obama can't pass a law for more residencies without congressional support (as far as I understand it). The truth is for the last 5-6 years either the president or congress has tried to expand residencies through medicare funding, but each year the bills have been dead in the water. That means that there certainly is a general stagnation in residencies that will affect all med graduates (hurting the IMGs the most and DOs next).

3) As far as LECOM students having "residencies dropped", I think you are confusing residencies and rotations. A residency is a GME, a rotation is a 4 week training program under a medical preceptor (MD or DO). Rotations occur throughout 3rd and 4th year of medical school. Sometimes rotations do get dropped at a school. This especially happens at DO and Carib schools, but there are usually other options of rotations available to students. Residency is the GME that trains you after graduating from medical school. First off, LECOM has consistently expanded and added new GME programs with its affiliates (via LECOMT) for the last few years. Secondly, residents don't get their residencies dropped, unless either the hospital loses accreditation (nothing to do with a school) or the resident gets fired (relatively rare).

Now LECOM has recently had its UPMC rotations dropped (last year), but as I've mentioned (having close ties to UPMC) this seems to have been more of a political/financial move with regards to the Highmark/Allegheny Health vs. UPMC feud. This has nothing to do with GME, all this means is that now LECOM students have to rotate at some of the 100-some odd other LECOM affiliates during 3rd and 4th year as opposed to UPMC sites. This year UPMC still matched many LECOM students into affiliated residencies programs (including RadOnc in Presby - bam!).

4) I'm almost done with MS1 at LECOM, but don't let my choice sway you. Any DO school on your list is fine, just make your decision (after you apply and get in of course) based on which one you like the best, is reasonably priced, and you think you would succeed most in.

The thing is, as an IMG, you may have a very unstable future. Who knows how state laws may change (generally speaking they have been consistently getting less IMG-friendly). Because you will never be a graduate from a US school, you will consistently have to jump through more hoops each time you apply for a state licensure. We all have hoops to jump through, but if your intention is to practice in the US, it is much safer and easier to go to a DO school than it is to attend any Carib school (even the best one). Now if you can't handle having DO behind your name, that's a different story...

Regardless of whether you are a US MD or DO, you should be able to secure a residency in the not too distant future. Very few people go unmatched, and even fewer go completely without finding a GME. The same really can't be said about all Carib grads, and even SGU grads. At the same time, the US will always be invested in the DO profession much more than a foreign program, because the schools are actually here, in the US, making money for each of states that they are in.

Now I'm not going to sit here and tell you your life will be over if you go to SGU. Its likely that many SGU grads will continue to match for at least the foreseeable future. That said, if your goal is stability, less unnecessary hurdles, and a more secure outlook for the future, DO is a much safer option than SGU.

My recommendation is to get your ducks in a row, get that doc letter and apply broadly and early to US MD schools and DO schools. If you can't get one from your doc, just start cold calling other docs and asking them if you can shadow them, or ask your PIs if they can introduce you to any MDs or DOs that you can shadow and then get a letter from. When I applied, I had 3 PI letters (2 were also MDs though), a DO letter, 4 faculty letters, and a physical therapist (extracurricular) letter. Just get as many letters as you can, and pick and choose which ones to send to what school.
Hey Hallowman,
So I applied for a few DO mentors. I am very fortunate that 2 responded this morning. Both roughly 40 min to 1 hour drive away, which I am willing to do.
Can I ask your opinion about my stats. I am planning to apply to this upcoming cycle. Seeing that 2 DO mentors have responded with kindness, I think I should weigh my options now, instead of jumping the gun to SGU.

So I took the exam 3 times, once in 2011- 23, June 2013-28 (11/6/11), and August 2013-29 (9/9/11). I transferred from a community college to UCD coming in with a gpa around 3.2 and my UCD gpa is 3.77.
I want to go to Touro in Ca, since my family is here. But I am willing to go anywhere. I do not care about the DO reputation, I just want to be a doctor.
Do you think I have a good chance? I have 3 LOTR from my Research, and if I can get two more LOTR from DO. I think I would be a good candidate, but I am uncertain and very worried. Because what we all struggle for is residency. I will agree that the residency for IMG is getting smaller. It looks like DO has a better chance of acquiring residencies compared to USMD.

Sorry if I have been all over the place. I am just trying to figure out the best options for my future. So I have done a lot of research, I doubt I can get into a USMD, but I believe with the two LOTR from DOs that I will be a strong candidate for DO schools. I already know that I am a good candidate for Caribbean schools.

Also may I ask if you applied to other DO schools besides Lecom?
 
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Hey Hallowman,
So I applied for a few DO mentors. I am very fortunate that 2 responded this morning. Both roughly 40 min to 1 hour drive away, which I am willing to do.
Can I ask your opinion about my stats. I am planning to apply to this upcoming cycle. Seeing that 2 DO mentors have responded with kindness, I think I should weigh my options now, instead of jumping the gun to SGU.

So I took the exam 3 times, once in 2011- 23, June 2013-28 (11/6/11), and August 2013-29 (9/9/11). I transferred from a community college to UCD coming in with a gpa around 3.2 and my UCD gpa is 3.77.
I want to go to Touro in Ca, since my family is here. But I am willing to go anywhere. I do not care about the DO reputation, I just want to be a doctor.
Do you think I have a good chance? I have 3 LOTR from my Research, and if I can get two more LOTR from DO. I think I would be a good candidate, but I am uncertain and very worried. Because what we all struggle for is residency. I will agree that the residency for IMG is getting smaller. It looks like DO has a better chance of acquiring residencies compared to USMD.

Sorry if I have been all over the place. I am just trying to figure out the best options for my future. So I have done a lot of research, I doubt I can get into a USMD, but I believe with the two LOTR from DOs that I will be a strong candidate for DO schools. I already know that I am a good candidate for Caribbean schools.

Also may I ask if you applied to other DO schools besides Lecom?

If I were you, I'd apply to US MD schools too. It'll be tough, especially for coming from CA, but its worth a shot. I think your stats are good. You really are right at the border with regards to MCAT, but assuming your GPA is around 3.5 and with the very nicely balanced MCAT at 29, people have gotten in to US MD schools with that. I would not apply to Carib schools at all. Be sure to apply early and broadly to MD schools (low-mid tier and new ones all over the country).

Stat-wise you are looking good for basically all DO schools (even though some have slightly higher MCAT averages - but none should reject based on stats alone). I don't know much about Touro-CA, but I think you'd be OK applying there. Just make sure you get those DO LORs.

I applied to a lot of different med schools (MD, DO, and Carib). I had a decent amount higher MCAT than you, but also had a much lower GPA than you. I also applied late (interviewed late Feb to early April). Like I mentioned, I was accepted into Ross and SGU right away. I was waitlisted at an MD school and a few DO schools, but post-secondary, LECOM was my top choice due to location (close to my family) and cost so I withdrew from the other DO waitlists when I got off the LECOM waitlist last April.

It worked out in the end for me, but don't do what I did though. No matter what, apply early. Every US school I interviewed at was full or almost full when I interviewed there.
 
If I were you, I'd apply to US MD schools too. It'll be tough, especially for coming from CA, but its worth a shot. I think your stats are good. You really are right at the border with regards to MCAT, but assuming your GPA is around 3.5 and with the very nicely balanced MCAT at 29, people have gotten in to US MD schools with that. I would not apply to Carib schools at all. Be sure to apply early and broadly to MD schools (low-mid tier and new ones all over the country).

Stat-wise you are looking good for basically all DO schools (even though some have slightly higher MCAT averages - but none should reject based on stats alone). I don't know much about Touro-CA, but I think you'd be OK applying there. Just make sure you get those DO LORs.

I applied to a lot of different med schools (MD, DO, and Carib). I had a decent amount higher MCAT than you, but also had a much lower GPA than you. I also applied late (interviewed late Feb to early April). Like I mentioned, I was accepted into Ross and SGU right away. I was waitlisted at an MD school and a few DO schools, but post-secondary, LECOM was my top choice due to location (close to my family) and cost so I withdrew from the other DO waitlists when I got off the LECOM waitlist last April.

It worked out in the end for me, but don't do what I did though. No matter what, apply early. Every US school I interviewed at was full or almost full when I interviewed there.
Will do, one has agreed to let me shadow her on the month of June in Touro, so hopefully I can get my concerns answered.
Also Hallowmann, is it true the Lecom requires you to dress formal? I have heard that they have ridiculous rules, I was wondering if they were true. I am kinda a laid back dresser.
 
Someone a while back had the match list from PCOM and Thomas Jefferson Medical College. The Jefferson list looked better. PCOM is one of the best DO schools and Jefferson is a lower tier MD school.

Not all foreign schools are "bad" or take subpar students. The stats for medical schools in Ireland for Atlantic Bridge are ridiculously high, with most successful applicants with MCATs in the low 30s.

Most Caribbean schools though do take students who have no business in medical school. Ross is one of the those schools, they take in a ridiculous number of students, many quite or fail out within the first two years.

How is Jeff a low tier MD school? As far as I know in Philly it's second behind UPenn, which isn't a bad name to come second to. I've heard people refer to Jeff as if it as a lot of prestige.
 
Will do, one has agreed to let me shadow her on the month of June in Touro, so hopefully I can get my concerns answered.
Also Hallowmann, is it true the Lecom requires you to dress formal? I have heard that they have ridiculous rules, I was wondering if they were true. I am kinda a laid back dresser.

Yeah, LECOM has a lot of rules. Honestly, the getting dressed up thing is barely noticeable anymore. They want you to dress like you would in 3rd and 4th year (and after), so you need to have a dress shirt, tie, dress pants, etc. so that you look/feel more professional. That said, in PBL, at least 3 days a week I'm only in school for 2 hrs (which drops to zero hours each block when we finish the cases), so its even less of a big deal for me. I imagine if I had to be in lectures for 6-8 hours everyday like the LDP people, it might be a pain.

Really though, I could care less about rules. Any rules they have here are the same as almost any other place I've worked at before. People who see it as a huge deal must have never had a professional job before. Like I said, LECOM was the right choice for me for reasons that were essentially very personal situation-specific. Choose where you want based on your own circumstances.
 
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Yeah, LECOM has a lot of rules. Honestly, the getting dressed up thing is barely noticeable anymore. They want you to dress like you would in 3rd and 4th year (and after), so you need to have a dress shirt, tie, dress pants, etc. so that you look/feel more professional. That said, in PBL, at least 3 days a week I'm only in school for 2 hrs (which drops to zero hours each block when we finish the cases), so its even less of a big deal for me. I imagine if I had to be in lectures for 6-8 hours everyday like the LDP people, it might be a pain.

Really though, I could care less about rules. Any rules they have here are the same as almost any other place I've worked at before. People who see it as a huge deal must have never had a professional job before. Like I said, LECOM was the right choice for me for reasons that were essentially very personal situation-specific. Choose where you want based on your own circumstances.
Dressing up does matter when you are in the anatomy lab.
 
Is it not the same exam. Just because a USMG scores a 225 compared to a IMG scoring a 225 does not mean the USMG is better than a IMG, vise-versa.

It does in the eyes of residency program directors and that is what matters. A US MD with the same board score as a DO or IMG is considered a substantially superior candidate at many places. There are many programs that don't consider either group.

If you compare to all USMG, why do USMG not compare themselves to graduates from Standford, UCSF, or John Hopkins? just because you graduated from a US school does not mean that you can put yourself in the same ranks as students from these schools.
So what you have indicated that someone who scores a 225 from UCSF is better than someone scoring a 225 from New York Med? Or do you think they are the same?

They absolutely do compare themselves to graduates of prestigious US schools. In competitive fields and at competitive programs, school name and rank is an important factor. Furthermore, letters or req from well known physicians in the field are important. That becomes harder to obtain at less prestigious or Carib institutions. The student from UCSF would be a better candidate at many programs.
 
It's like asking who's going to get more attention, the guy with a 4.0 from MIT or the guy with a 4.0 from Penn State... Sure, they're both 4.0, but it's not the same 4.0.
 
It does in the eyes of residency program directors and that is what matters. A US MD with the same board score as a DO or IMG is considered a substantially superior candidate at many places. There are many programs that don't consider either group.



They absolutely do compare themselves to graduates of prestigious US schools. In competitive fields and at competitive programs, school name and rank is an important factor. Furthermore, letters or req from well known physicians in the field are important. That becomes harder to obtain at less prestigious or Carib institutions. The student from UCSF would be a better candidate at many programs.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. I knew someone who went to Harvard and got a 220 on her Step 1, she interviewed with virtually every big name academic residency in the country.
 
Thanks for pointing out the obvious. I knew someone who went to Harvard and got a 220 on her Step 1, she interviewed with virtually every big name academic residency in the country.

The info wasn't to educate you personally or other medical students.

I quoted a post where the concept wasn't clearly understood.
 
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