Goro’s advice for DO applicants in the absence of grade replacement

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Goro,
Silly and odd question for ya:
In order for science courses to be considered 'upper level', must they have a course number of 300/3000 or higher? Are med schools picky about that?
As mentioned above, I am currently doing a DIY post-bacc at a local university taking recommended bio courses. At this college all the undergrad bio courses(including: genetics, human physiology, cell biology,etc) have course numbers in 1000-2000 level. The material is similar to upper-level courses at other universities, they are definitely not intro/survey courses!
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restndigest92 said:
Goro,
Silly and odd question for ya:
In order for science courses to be considered 'upper level', must they have a course number of 300/3000 or higher? Are med schools picky about that?
As mentioned above, I am currently doing a DIY post-bacc at a local university taking recommended bio courses. At this college all the undergrad bio courses(including: genetics, human physiology, cell biology,etc) have course numbers in 1000-2000 level. The material is similar to upper-level courses at other universities, they are definitely not intro/survey courses!
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I don't pay attention to course numbers. I look for material.
 
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Hi Goro, had a quick question. I was complete at most of the DO schools I applied to (about 18) around 09/01/2017, with some around 09/07 max. Do you think I was late in submitting my secondaries?
3.5 cgpa 3.2 sgpa 504 MCAT, worked full time throughout under grad, low SES, medical scribe.

Thanks!
 
Texasmedins said:
Hi Goro, had a quick question. I was complete at most of the DO schools I applied to (about 18) around 09/01/2017, with some around 09/07 max. Do you think I was late in submitting my secondaries?
3.5 cgpa 3.2 sgpa 504 MCAT, worked full time throughout under grad, low SES, medical scribe.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
In the DO cycle, you're not late until T-giving. Please spread the word.
 
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Watermelonss said:
Hi @Goro,

Does this count as a downward trend?
Freshman gpa: 2.38
Sophmore gpa: 3.85
Junior gpa: 3.6
Senior gpa: 3.63
Post bac gpa: 3.65
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I've wondered about downward trends as well. In either direction, how big of a change does it take to have the trend affect one's profile?
 
Diastereo said:
Just discovered this amazing thread. Can't I get your eyes on this @Goro ? Had a high cGPA and sGPA with grade replacement; now I'm balancing on a cut-off point.
  • Current respite social worker. Direct clinical hours with homeless opiate users and more than 2k clinical hours working with the under-served.
  • uGPA: 3.41
  • sGPA: 2.83
  • MSW GPA: 4.0
  • Last 20 hours of DIY post-bacc at 4.0; 3 C's and 1 F repeated at a 4.0
  • 2 years of research experience; 1 study published.
  • Service and EC Highlights: long-term volunteer with an African non-profit, two mission trips to Kenya, Albert Schweitzer Fellow, multiple graduate scholarships and awards, research in health disparities, former CrossFit Coach.
  • Letters of recommendation from post-bacc professors, research PI's, and Healthcare for the Homeless doctors.
Any advice on whether I should:
  • Take the MCAT in 2018; if the score is appropriate, >510, then apply. Mostly DO and a reach MD like Geisinger or UT El Paso because I want to work with the under-served/in rural medicine.
  • Take more DIY post-bacc courses with my current 4-year school. I'll need about 3 more courses at a 4.0 to bring the sGPA to a 3.0. Take the MCAT and apply in 2019.
  • Note: as a social worker, there's no way I can afford an SMP in my state. It's out of my price range.
Due to my work schedule, I plan to do a long and slow MCAT prep (similar to this plan "How I prepped for a 526"). As a result, I'm going to make the application decision soon.
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Your plans are sound. If you're not a Texan, the two schools you named will be out of reach.
 
Diastereo said:
@Goro Thanks for the fast feedback! Seems like I'll be applying next cycle and updating schools with my grades throughout the cycle. I'm a native Texan, but Geisinger is in PA (formerly Commonwealth). An Adcom encouraged me to apply there after a meeting, so was unsure if they would actually consider me or just wanted my application fee.
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TCMC has a preference for people from the Scranton area. An app there would be a donation.

OOS MD schools know from historical data that nearly all Texans (~all but 500 of the total applicant pool) stay in TX.
 
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Would it be worth it do a DIY post bacc? I have a very low GPA but with a steady upward trend (did very very poorly my first 2 years of college). I have a 4.0 in the last 51 quarter units consisting of mainly science courses.
My stats are:

cGPA: 2.52
sGPA: 3.14
MCAT: 510
ED scribe, clinical research assistant, free clinic volunteer, Bio tutor.

Should I do a DIY post bacc or apply to DO schools directly? Curious if I need to take another year to raise my GPA. Thanks in advance :)
 
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premedbrah said:
Would it be worth it do a DIY post bacc? I have a very low GPA but with a steady upward trend (did very very poorly my first 2 years of college). I have a 4.0 in the last 51 quarter units consisting of mainly science courses.
My stats are:

cGPA: 2.52
sGPA: 3.14
MCAT: 510
ED scribe, clinical research assistant, free clinic volunteer, Bio tutor.

Should I do a DIY post bacc or apply to DO schools directly? Curious if I need to take another year to raise my GPA. Thanks in advance :)
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How many years is 51 qtr hours???
 
Goro said:
I recommend one more year of aceing before applying.
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Ok sounds good.. is CC ok for classes? I know this has been asked a million times but CC is significantly cheaper than any nearby University extension.
 
premedbrah said:
Ok sounds good.. is CC ok for classes? I know this has been asked a million times but CC is significantly cheaper than any nearby University extension.
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Mostly OK, but will be school-specific. Some MD schools specifically won't allow the coursework for requirements, others recommend not to do it. Check out a few schools and see what they have to say (say, Drexel, Wake, BU and Loyola)
 
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Hi Goro, I had a few questions about getting clinical experience. Is it necessary to have a balance between volunteering/jobs (ex. scribe, technician). Will DO adcom's care if I have a lot of volunteering during my gap year, but unemployed?
 
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Goro said:
Mostly OK, but will be school-specific. Some MD schools specifically won't allow the coursework for requirements, others recommend not to do it. Check out a few schools and see what they have to say (say, Drexel, Wake, BU and Loyola)
Click to expand...

Just calculated my theoretical cGPA w/ a 4.0 1 year post bacc. 1 more year of full time puts me at a cGPA of 2.58 and sGPA (accomas) of 3.48 :(
 
premedbrah said:
Just calculated my theoretical cGPA w/ a 4.0 1 year post bacc. 1 more year of full time puts me at a cGPA of 2.58 and sGPA (accomas) of 3.48 :(
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Not going to happen for you. Schools have a window of leeway they give students, but generally if you can't crack that 3, you won't get into Med school. The only way would be an SMP, but even for that your GPA is toast. There are so many good applicants that struggled but not too the point of pulling on the noose that there's no point in taking you
 
Goro said:
Go re-read my post. It's not about the cGPA anymore, but proving the you of now is not the you of then.
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So, my GPA for each year are as follows:

Freshman: 2.98
Sophomore: 3.07
Junior: 3.98
Senior: 3.7
Post-Bacc: 3.5-3.6 (still working on it)

Does it look like upward trend, even if Senior year a little lower than Junior year?
Post-Bacc will be around 3.5-3.6 for the next cycle.

Thank you
 
PashaOdesit said:
So, my GPA for each year are as follows:

Freshman: 2.98
Sophomore: 3.07
Junior: 3.98
Senior: 3.7
Post-Bacc: 3.5-3.6 (still working on it)

Does it look like upward trend, even if Senior year a little lower than Junior year?
Post-Bacc will be around 3.5-3.6 for the next cycle.

Thank you
Click to expand...
That is what would be scientifically described as a "massive upward trend". You're fine.
 
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AlbinoHawk DO said:
Not going to happen for you. Schools have a window of leeway they give students, but generally if you can't crack that 3, you won't get into Med school. The only way would be an SMP, but even for that your GPA is toast. There are so many good applicants that struggled but not too the point of pulling on the noose that there's no point in taking you
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I appreciate your advice. I'm adding it to my motivation :)
 
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premedbrah said:
I appreciate your advice. I'm adding it to my motivation :)
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I sincerely hope I'm wrong and wish you good luck since there's no reason for me to wish you to fail, but I think it would be wrong of me not to tell you where you are and how dire your situation is.
 
AlbinoHawk DO said:
Not going to happen for you. Schools have a window of leeway they give students, but generally if you can't crack that 3, you won't get into Med school. The only way would be an SMP, but even for that your GPA is toast. There are so many good applicants that struggled but not too the point of pulling on the noose that there's no point in taking you
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There are plenty of SMPs that will take people with a GPA < 3.0. Mine's just one of them. Brah has demonstrated enough reinvention that with a 513+ MCAT, s/he is viable for a number of MD schools, and any DO. Even a 505 will look good for most DO schools.
 
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Goro said:
There are plenty of SMPs that will take people with a GPA < 3.0. Mine's just one of them. Brah has demonstrated enough reinvention that with a 513+ MCAT, s/he is viable for a number of MD schools, and any DO. Even a 505 will look good for most DO schools.
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Maybe your school doesn't use screens, but the majority of schools will screen at a 2.8. My school, for example, has hard cut off for their class. I know the student has worked hard and would likely succeed, but the story is usually not as simple as that.
 
Goro said:
There are plenty of SMPs that will take people with a GPA < 3.0. Mine's just one of them. Brah has demonstrated enough reinvention that with a 513+ MCAT, s/he is viable for a number of MD schools, and any DO. Even a 505 will look good for most DO schools.
Click to expand...
Would it be advisable to apply to an SMP program (such as LMU, Burrell or PCOM) for this upcoming year (fall 2018)? Or should I focus solely on a DIY post-bacc as you stated before? I found a handful of SMP's that do not have GPA requirements. I also do not want to limit myself to DO schools if I don't have to. Either way I am happy, I just want to look at ALL of my options :)

Edit: And yes money is very much a concern
 
premedbrah said:
Would it be advisable to apply to an SMP program (such as LMU, Burrell or PCOM) for this upcoming year (fall 2018)? Or should I focus solely on a DIY post-bacc as you stated before? I found a handful of SMP's that do not have GPA requirements. I also do not want to limit myself to DO schools if I don't have to. Either way I am happy, I just want to look at ALL of my options :)

Edit: And yes money is very much a concern
Click to expand...
I have posted the plusses and minuses of DIY post-bacs vs SMPs. If $ is an issue, then the former is better for you.
 
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premedbrah said:
Would it be advisable to apply to an SMP program (such as LMU, Burrell or PCOM) for this upcoming year (fall 2018)? Or should I focus solely on a DIY post-bacc as you stated before? I found a handful of SMP's that do not have GPA requirements. I also do not want to limit myself to DO schools if I don't have to. Either way I am happy, I just want to look at ALL of my options :)

Edit: And yes money is very much a concern
Click to expand...

I believe that you are a solid candidate for a SMP. If I were in your position, I would apply to SMPs with high linkage to their host medical school. Your cumulative will bearly move even with another full year of 4.0 so I strongly feel that a SMP should be your next step (only if money is not an issue).
 
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Shotapp said:
I believe that you are a solid candidate for a SMP. If I were in your position, I would apply to SMPs with high linkage to their host medical school. Your cumulative will bearly move even with another full year of 4.0 so I strongly feel that a SMP should be your next step (only if money is not an issue).
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Ok, I think I will apply for several SMP programs. If I don't get into those, at least I know the DIY post bacc is always an option. I'm really hoping the one at LMU works out, seems like a good program! Thanks for the response btw
 
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premedbrah said:
Ok, I think I will apply for several SMP programs. If I don't get into those, at least I know the DIY post bacc is always an option. I'm really hoping the one at LMU works out, seems like a good program! Thanks for the response btw
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You got this man, especially with that solid MCAT score. LMU looks like a great program. GL and keep updating.
 
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Anyone know how much the competitive GPA will change for future cycles? It's obviously going to go down right? Wouldn't this be something schools would actively want to avoid?
 
YeezyQ said:
Anyone know how much the competitive GPA will change for future cycles? It's obviously going to go down right? Wouldn't this be something schools would actively want to avoid?
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Everything depends upon how the economy is and how attractive Medicine looks as a career. But over the past few years, there has been a steady rise in both MCAT and GPA median at DO schools. At the latest crop of interviewees seen at my school, they're nearly all in MD caliber, as in our state school, and not like Mercer or U NE.
 
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Just wanted to say, thank you Goro. You are a physician and faculty and must be extremely busy. The fact that you spend so much time here, helping people realize their dream, says a lot about you.
 
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darkeon said:
He's not. He does teach medical students though. All the same, the previous comment above still holds true.
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I agree. I definitely respect Goro and all his contribution here and acknowledge that it is so much helpful to everyone here on SDN.

Thank you, Goro.
 
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If science GPA is low (2.5) and cgpa is 3.2, would an SMP or informal post bacc be better?

If I take two year post bacc (at least 52 semester units) and get straight A's, sgpa would be at a 3.04. But that's IF I get straight A's (which I am not confident I will be able to pull off without the occasional B+ here and there lol).

Or would it be better to go through an SMP to establish a different gpa that looks nicer on an application seeing as my other gpa's are lackluster.

I don't expect to apply for med school until 2021, so I have some time but I just need to figure out a plan.

Thank you!
 
taurusajg said:
If science GPA is low (2.5) and cgpa is 3.2, would an SMP or informal post bacc be better?

If I take two year post bacc (at least 52 semester units) and get straight A's, sgpa would be at a 3.04. But that's IF I get straight A's (which I am not confident I will be able to pull off without the occasional B+ here and there lol).

Or would it be better to go through an SMP to establish a different gpa that looks nicer on an application seeing as my other gpa's are lackluster.

I don't expect to apply for med school until 2021, so I have some time but I just need to figure out a plan.

Thank you!
Click to expand...
I've written in the past as to the plusses and minuses of SMP vs post bac. I prefer the SMP because it's a back door into med school when given at a med school. High risk, but reward.
 
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I was wondering- do they count introduction to math classes as a part of the final gpa calculation? (I was wondering for a friend, she went to CC and she went through the introductory math classes)
 
Dr.Barker&Mr.Scootches said:
I was wondering- do they count introduction to math classes as a part of the final gpa calculation? (I was wondering for a friend, she went to CC and she went through the introductory math classes)
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yes...for aacomas they count as non-science. for amcas they count as science. all grades, even for college credits earned in HS, must be reported.
 
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Hey goro this doesn’t have much to do with grade replacement but I was curious what do adcoms look for specifically when pulling people from waitlists and what would make someone get picked over another person? Are grades and mcat the only real player in accepting some off of the WL or do other things matter as well? I happened to pull off a 3.9 in 21 credits 12 of which were science classes including biochem and virology(only Non A class that semester, was B+) how much do you think this will influence my WL position. I also added another LOR and a research grant I was awarded. Ultimately trying to understand how those on the WL are evaluated and what makes one more likely to be granted acceptance over another. Thanks again
 
@Goro
Random admissions Q...

Are students who have completed post-bacc courses evaluated separately from applicants who have not completed a PB?
Do adcoms note that a student has completed a PB and place the applicant into an applicant pool of other PB students for comparison?
 
CJhooper123 said:
@Goro
Random admissions Q...

Are students who have completed post-bacc courses evaluated separately from applicants who have not completed a PB?
Do adcoms note that a student has completed a PB and place the applicant into an applicant pool of other PB students for comparison?
Click to expand...
Nope, the thing see see on the app form is PBgpa...and the coursework in the transcripts
 
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