Got an A the First Time: Retook and Got a D. Which Grade Counts?

MDforMee

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I'm serious, in community college, I took a humanities course and earned an A. Afterwards, I went to another community college and retook the same humanities course (because I liked it the first time); same course description, same units, same title and course number, even. I was young and didn't know any better. I got a D the second time around, though.

Which grade will AACOMAS take?
 
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Fedxup

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Interesting situation.
 

Fedxup

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most likely the D since that's the most recent
That is what I was thinking. It is called grade replacement and not "we will take the higher grade." Then again, you never know.

OP should email AACOMAS.
 

TheWeeIceMan

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You may need to pull a hat trick.
 

Mehd School

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Putting your ridiculously off base assumptions in that other thread aside, I'm going to give you my insights on this instead of putting you on my ignore list like I would be wise to do.


It is my understanding that your most recent grade counts, so that ugly D will be calculated in your gpa. If you are lucky enough to be interviewed anywhere, THIS WILL COME UP. It is an incredibly bizarre situation and it's really going to raise some eyebrows. "Being young" might not cut it in terms of an explanation that would make them understand why exactly you shelled out hundreds of dollars on a class you already aced....and proceeded to tank it.

Good luck. I don't know what your other numbers are so I can't tell you what shape you are in. Personally, I would retake and get an A. Luckily it doesn't sound like it was a drastically important class like organic or biology.
 

guylewis

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I'm sorry, but this is so ridiculous I refuse to believe it's real (or at least not the whole story). Who gets an A in a class, then repeats it because they liked the class....and then subsequently fails the class they loved so much? honestly, who repeats a class they like? if you take a humanities class and liked it, then audit it. or reread the books at home, it's just as good. why would you threaten your A, and thus threaten your shot at getting into medical school? If I was an in admissions and I saw this, I think it alone should disqualify you from any medical, chiropractor, podiatry, or cosmetology school.

Sorry, I'm venting and being mean....I apologize. I'm gonna ease up and answer your question:

DO schools look at your most recent grade, not the highest grade. Same story for the MCAT. It will likely come up at an interview so have a phenomenal explanation for it. I mean, this story better make Tom Clancy look like he writes for Hallmark. it's a good thing you really loved that class, because you're going to get the chance to do it all over again. third time's the charm...just like the first time, but not the second time.
 

GreyF0X

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I'm serious, in community college, I took a humanities course and earned an A. Afterwards, I went to another community college and retook the same humanities course (because I liked it the first time); same course description, same units, same title and course number, even. I was young and didn't know any better. I got a D the second time around, though.

Which grade will AACOMAS take?
I'm curious, how long ago was the second retake? You said that you were young and didn't know any better so I'm guessing you retook the course awhile back? To answer your question, AACOMAS takes the most recent grade as the other posters have mentioned. Retaking a class and getting a D in it seems to raise a red flag, however i think you will be in the clear if this class was taken awhile back and you've since had a good upward trend. I also recommend that you retake the course again and get an A in it. Good luck.
 

edgerock24

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I'm sorry, but this is so ridiculous I refuse to believe it's real (or at least not the whole story). Who gets an A in a class, then repeats it because they liked the class....and then subsequently fails the class they loved so much? honestly, who repeats a class they like? if you take a humanities class and liked it, then audit it. or reread the books at home, it's just as good. why would you threaten your A, and thus threaten your shot at getting into medical school? If I was an in admissions and I saw this, I think it alone should disqualify you from any medical, chiropractor, podiatry, or cosmetology school.

Sorry, I'm venting and being mean....I apologize. I'm gonna ease up and answer your question:

DO schools look at your most recent grade, not the highest grade. Same story for the MCAT. It will likely come up at an interview so have a phenomenal explanation for it. I mean, this story better make Tom Clancy look like he writes for Hallmark. it's a good thing you really loved that class, because you're going to get the chance to do it all over again. third time's the charm...just like the first time, but not the second time.
He's either a troll or an idiot. Take your pick.
 
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MDforMee

MDforMee

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Well, to be fair, I took the following courses having the following course descriptions:

1. Humanities 1: "A" at School 1 (old)
-- Description: "Introduction to the art, architecture, history, literature, music, religion and philosophy from the ancient through the medieval."
http://www.sierracollege.edu/_files/resources/academics/catalog/catalog-13-14-web.pdf
(pp 195)

2. Humanities 2: "A" at School 1 (newest)
-- Description: "Introduction to the art, architecture, history, literature, music, religion and philosophy of the Western World from the Renaissance to the present."
http://www.sierracollege.edu/_files/resources/academics/catalog/catalog-13-14-web.pdf
(pp 195)

3. Humanities 1: "D" at School 2 (new)
-- Description: "A broad introduction to the major forms and types of artistic expression: sculpture, architecture, painting, philosophy, literature, drama, dance, film, and music."
http://www.siskiyous.edu/academics/classes/hum1001/vancil/

**Added Bonus!
4. Humanities 1: "B" at School 3 (between the old and new)
-- Description: "An introductory survey of influences on Western culture, historically structured from classical Greece to the Renaissance, presenting enduring works of art, drama, literature, music, and philosophy."
http://www.gocolumbia.edu/catalog_schedules/courses.pdf
(pp 46)

So, according to my research, I have not 2 but 3 Humanities 1 courses. Further, Humanities 1 and 2 at School 1 cover the same material (but in different time frames) as Humanities 1 at school 2, so technically, I think that AACOMAS should split the difference and do some math weighting.

But then again, there's the counfounder bonus Humanities 1 at School 3; it sounds similar to Humanities 1 at school 1, am I right? It covered the influences on Western Culture, though, which is admittedly different than 1. - 3. above.
 

Chemistry Cat 3.0

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I smell something fishy going on here.

If I'm reading this correctly. You took the humanities course that was highly similar at 3 different community colleges in order to fulfill your humanities GE requirement.
 
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MDforMee

MDforMee

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I smell something fishy going on here.

If I'm reading this correctly. You took the humanities course that was highly similar at 3 different community colleges in order to fulfill your humanities GE requirement.
Something fishy is spot on. I had a pretty rough time in my life during the first few years I was in school. It helps me to iron out the things that appear strange in my academic history in terms of how able I am to discuss it, and in what way I choose to do so, because I'll probably have to do it during interviews. If you don't feel like reading or responding, don't feel obligated to do so.

Here is my advice to a student that may be a little like me that I posted a minute or two ago:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/transferring-from-a-community-college-to-another-in-another-state.1047885/#post-14751228

As long as you're here and reading this, I currently tutor at one of the community colleges I attended; every time I do, I try to wake people up to the fact that their grades are usually permanent, and that hopefully, they don't make the same mistakes that I did. I'm also involved with mentoring community college transfer students at my current University (where I'm a graduate student) as well as serving on a committee there to oversee the hiring of the next Dean of Undergraduate Studies. In short, I'm trying to make sure that others know what challenges community college transfer students face, and what kinds of backgrounds they might have. Not every student at a big UC is of a certain demographic and/or socioeconomic background.

In fact, I remember some of the people in this thread arguing with me on another thread about ostensibly labeling white males MDs as racist and sexist. I am a white male, and I can almost guarantee you that I had a harder time in life than all of you did, and that I probably worked harder to get here, too. Just keep that in mind.
 

NontradCA

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I am a white male, and I can almost guarantee you that I had a harder time in life than all of you did, and that I probably worked harder to get here, too. Just keep that in mind.
I chuckled in real life.

7/10 for subtle troll building up to race debate.
 

medickdb

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Keep assuming and generalizing, OP. You will go far doing that to people.

You may very well have had a harder time in life, but you don't know that for sure. Nor do you know that you worked harder than anyone else here, there, or anywhere. Again, that very well may be true. But, then again, according to whom?

I hope you learn some humility and respect as things work out for you. And, I do hope they work out for you one day.

I can tell you one thing. It is wise to learn from one's mistakes. But, I'm sure you are already well aware of that. I just wanted to remind you for if and when you do get an interview.

Obviously, if this course of events you outlined is true, it's far from ideal and you know that. As many others have stated, AACOMAS takes the most recent grade. That said, it's not the end of the world. Continue to work hard and overcome. If you truly have had a hard life, this is simply one more setback, not the end of the world.

If history has taught me anything, some of the most profound advancements this world has ever seen have been made through perseverance.

That's all I really have to say.

Again, good luck.
 
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MDforMee

MDforMee

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Keep assuming and generalizing, OP. You will go far doing that to people.

You may very well have had a harder time in life, but you don't know that for sure. Nor do you know that you worked harder than anyone else here, there, or anywhere. Again, that very well may be true. But, then again, according to whom?

I hope you learn some humility and respect as things work out for you. And, I do hope they work out for you one day.

I can tell you one thing. It is wise to learn from one's mistakes. But, I'm sure you are already well aware of that. I just wanted to remind you for if and when you do get an interview.

Obviously, if this course of events you outlined is true, it's far from ideal and you know that. As many others have stated, AACOMAS takes the most recent grade. That said, it's not the end of the world. Continue to work hard and overcome. If you truly have had a hard life, this is simply one more setback, not the end of the world.

If history has taught me anything, some of the most profound advancements this world has ever seen have been made through perseverance.

That's all I really have to say.

Again, good luck.
We all make the world the way it is.

I'll keep doing the right thing, making positive contributions to myself and others in what ways I can.
 

medickdb

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We all make the world the way it is.

I'll keep doing the right thing, making positive contributions to myself and others in what ways I can.
That's all you can do.

Good luck.
 
OP
MDforMee

MDforMee

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I can almost guarantee that you don't have any idea what you're talking about
Feel free to post your "overcoming" story. I'll post mine.

I think that it might actually be helpful for us in terms of secondary essays we'll have to write.
 

Haxx

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Feel free to post your "overcoming" story. I'll post mine.

I think that it might actually be helpful for us in terms of secondary essays we'll have to write.
The level of chest-puffing and allegorical junk-measuring in this thread is too damn high.
 

Mehd School

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Feel free to post your "overcoming" story. I'll post mine.

I think that it might actually be helpful for us in terms of secondary essays we'll have to write.
Oh boy. I feel sorry for your future classmates. If you make it that far. I'd keep the "poor me" out of the interview room if I were you.
 

jayoh

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Feel free to post your "overcoming" story. I'll post mine.

I think that it might actually be helpful for us in terms of secondary essays we'll have to write.
please be trolling
 

Mad Jack

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Something fishy is spot on. I had a pretty rough time in my life during the first few years I was in school. It helps me to iron out the things that appear strange in my academic history in terms of how able I am to discuss it, and in what way I choose to do so, because I'll probably have to do it during interviews. If you don't feel like reading or responding, don't feel obligated to do so.

Here is my advice to a student that may be a little like me that I posted a minute or two ago:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/transferring-from-a-community-college-to-another-in-another-state.1047885/#post-14751228

As long as you're here and reading this, I currently tutor at one of the community colleges I attended; every time I do, I try to wake people up to the fact that their grades are usually permanent, and that hopefully, they don't make the same mistakes that I did. I'm also involved with mentoring community college transfer students at my current University (where I'm a graduate student) as well as serving on a committee there to oversee the hiring of the next Dean of Undergraduate Studies. In short, I'm trying to make sure that others know what challenges community college transfer students face, and what kinds of backgrounds they might have. Not every student at a big UC is of a certain demographic and/or socioeconomic background.

In fact, I remember some of the people in this thread arguing with me on another thread about ostensibly labeling white males MDs as racist and sexist. I am a white male, and I can almost guarantee you that I had a harder time in life than all of you did, and that I probably worked harder to get here, too. Just keep that in mind.
 
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MDforMee

MDforMee

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Oh boy. I feel sorry for your future classmates. If you make it that far. I'd keep the "poor me" out of the interview room if I were you.
From what I can tell, posts like these are the reason that there are stickies in the tops of forums about derailing threads, rude posts, etc.

In the interest of my thread, if I can post my more difficult experiences, work on describing how I've dealt with adversity, and help others facing similar challenges by relating these things to them in a mature, collaborative fashion, then I'll do it.

In the end, I'll have contributed to our little community, and you'll look just how you do, now; immature and foul mouthed.
 

Mehd School

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From what I can tell, posts like these are the reason that there are stickies in the tops of forums about derailing threads, rude posts, etc.

In the interest of my thread, if I can post my more difficult experiences, work on describing how I've dealt with adversity, and help others facing similar challenges by relating these things to them in a mature, collaborative fashion, then I'll do it.

In the end, I'll have contributed to our little community, and you'll look just how you do, now; immature and foul mouthed.
I can assure you that we don't care to hear your story. We've got our own problems to deal with, whether you're naive to that fact or not.
 
OP
MDforMee

MDforMee

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I can assure you that we don't care to hear your story. We've got our own problems to deal with, whether you're naive to that fact or not.
We should behave here on SDN as we would in real life.

And above, I stated "It helps me to iron out the things that appear strange in my academic history in terms of how able I am to discuss it, and in what way I choose to do so, because I'll probably have to do it during interviews. If you don't feel like reading or responding, don't feel obligated to do so."

If you don't have anything constructive to say in this thread, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't bump it.
 

NontradCA

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From what I can tell, posts like these are the reason that there are stickies in the tops of forums about derailing threads, rude posts, etc.

In the interest of my thread, if I can post my more difficult experiences, work on describing how I've dealt with adversity, and help others facing similar challenges by relating these things to them in a mature, collaborative fashion, then I'll do it.

In the end, I'll have contributed to our little community, and you'll look just how you do, now; immature and foul mouthed.
Go ahead and tell your story booboo.

 

cliquesh

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In highschool I took calculus at a community college (got an A) and retook it my freshman year of college (got an A-). I was concerned that my community college version was too simple and I would be ill prepared for calc 2.

Aacomas only considered my university grade not my community college grade.
 

AlbinoHawk DO

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Yes, the most recent grade counts. However, as far as I know, you don't have to report the second course as a retake. You can report both scores as individual grades and it would average out.
 

guylewis

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Yes, the most recent grade counts. However, as far as I know, you don't have to report the second course as a retake. You can report both scores as individual grades and it would average out.
wrong. when AACOMAS verifies grades it will figure this out. If by some crazy miracle they don't figure it out and let it slide through, any school you get accepted to will ask for your transcripts again prior to matriculation and they will figure out at that point what you did and they won't be all too pleased if they see you tried to sneak away a big red flag like that. it can result in you losing your acceptance, and as a result application cycle will be lost. then you'll have to explain in subsequent years when you reapply that you had previously been accepted at another school but had your acceptance withdrawn by the school for trying to hide a regrade (they do ask this question in most applications).
 
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From what I can tell, posts like these are the reason that there are stickies in the tops of forums about derailing threads, rude posts, etc.

In the interest of my thread, if I can post my more difficult experiences, work on describing how I've dealt with adversity, and help others facing similar challenges by relating these things to them in a mature, collaborative fashion, then I'll do it.

In the end, I'll have contributed to our little community, and you'll look just how you do, now; immature and foul mouthed.
it is ok to explain your tough situation and how you overcame it in order to help or even inspire others. You're right that it would be a contribution to the SDN community. I don't think you've done that at all, though. All I've heard was you say was that your life was "almost guaranteed" to be harder than everyone else's, and that you've worked harder than everyone else. There are some pretty amazing people around here that have overcome some pretty crazy things, and I have had to overcome quite a bit myself. Rather than believing that you are the only one who has been dealt significant challenges in life, you should respect the fact that nearly everyone has had to overcome some kind of obstacle. And to think that your life has definitely been harder, and that you have definitely worked harder, is purely ignorant.
 
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AlbinoHawk DO

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wrong. when AACOMAS verifies grades it will figure this out. If by some crazy miracle they don't figure it out and let it slide through, any school you get accepted to will ask for your transcripts again prior to matriculation and they will figure out at that point what you did and they won't be all too pleased if they see you tried to sneak away a big red flag like that. it can result in you losing your acceptance, and as a result application cycle will be lost. then you'll have to explain in subsequent years when you reapply that you had previously been accepted at another school but had your acceptance withdrawn by the school for trying to hide a regrade (they do ask this question in most applications).
I could be wrong, and if I am, I apologize. My understanding is that grade replacement isn't forced on anyone. Some people genuinely repeat courses for the extra units. For example: PE units, Research Units or courses labelled that can be repeated despite grade. Does that extend to OP's class? I would say so unless there is a rule that says you must report it as a repeat. There is no unethical behavior where you're trying to sneak a red flag. You are reporting all the grades. You're just not asking for grade replacement. I hope an ADCOM can weigh in.
 

coolingglasses

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I could be wrong, and if I am, I apologize. My understanding is that grade replacement isn't forced on anyone. Some people genuinely repeat courses for the extra units. For example: PE units, Research Units or courses labelled that can be repeated despite grade. Does that extend to OP's class? I would say so unless there is a rule that says you must report it as a repeat. There is no unethical behavior where you're trying to sneak a red flag. You are reporting all the grades. You're just not asking for grade replacement. I hope an ADCOM can weigh in.
Per Page 18 of the AACOMAS application instructions:
Courses repeated for academic improvement or
grade change must be listed each time taken. Courses
repeated for additional credit, but not for a better grade,
such as physical education or chorus, are not considered
a repeat.
That section also includes an example chart where a person took Calc I, repeated it and got a lower grade. They were listed as repeats in the order they were taken. I was going to suggest that since you took them at different institutions you might be able to get away with it, but since they're virtually identical I wouldn't count on it.

I don't think the consequences of trying it are nearly as dire as guylewis implies, though. Most likely, AACOMAS would pick it up, adjust it accordingly, and that'd be the end of that.
 

guylewis

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Per Page 18 of the AACOMAS application instructions:


That section also includes an example chart where a person took Calc I, repeated it and got a lower grade. They were listed as repeats in the order they were taken. I was going to suggest that since you took them at different institutions you might be able to get away with it, but since they're virtually identical I wouldn't count on it.

I don't think the consequences of trying it are nearly as dire as guylewis implies, though. Most likely, AACOMAS would pick it up, adjust it accordingly, and that'd be the end of that.
my point was that, just like you said, AACOMAS will find the repeat and report it as such in the final grade verification on your application...but the problem will be if AACOMAS doesn't find it and you don't correct them. that's when things get messy. because if you get accepted to a school, you need to turn in your transcripts all over again to the school you were accepted to and they will check your grades again. if they find any discrepancies, they will not be pleased.
 

AlbinoHawk DO

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I'm convinced by your arguments. Please disregard my previous posts.
 

hallowmann

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Bottomline: AACOMAS counts the most recent retake.

Per Page 18 of the AACOMAS application instructions:


That section also includes an example chart where a person took Calc I, repeated it and got a lower grade. They were listed as repeats in the order they were taken. I was going to suggest that since you took them at different institutions you might be able to get away with it, but since they're virtually identical I wouldn't count on it.
Am I the only one who thinks the 2 courses could arguably be different? The first course is covering a very specific time periors, while the newer one is more general. As for the 3rd course (at school 3) that sounds identical to the first, so I'd definitely classify that as a repeat of the first one. I think OP would get away with classifying the course with a D as a separate course.


I don't think the consequences of trying it are nearly as dire as guylewis implies, though. Most likely, AACOMAS would pick it up, adjust it accordingly, and that'd be the end of that.
This is probably true. Its not like schools can't see every course you've ever taken on your AACOMAS app, so they shouldn't be surprised by seeing your transcripts.


On the other note, OP, just some advice: don't be quick to cry out woe is me. There are tons of people that have gone through all sorts of hardships. Try to stay away from an attitude of being victimized and focus more on how those experiences have improved your character and made you who you are today. It will make your life (and app process) easier. Also, stop focusing on how your life stacks up to that of others, whether it be by comparing hardships or comparing wealth, etc, it will make your life happier.

EDIT: Actually MedSchoolMama says it better than me in another thread to someone else:

...Please try to see, despite what you have experienced in life, that everyone has their own cross to bear - no matter if it is self inflicted or inflicted upon them. They all must live with their choices. Empathy is incredibly important to the act of being a physician. Understanding our patient's own struggles will help us treat them. Life is not a competition of who had it worse. Remember that perception is reality for many people and what one person perceives as a great hardship is something another person would often. This doesn't change what the original person feels as they experience it.
I don't write this to in any way diminish what you have experienced. Undoubtedly it was a tough, hard road for you and I applaud you for being strong enough to rise above all of it.
 
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