Got declined, should I go international, MPH, grad school?

[Lacipart]

I'm a Wisconsin resident, just got declined to even interview at Madison and University of Minnesota. Still waiting on the interview at MCW (I applied late July) I'm thinking that if I can't even get an interview at these other schools it's dubious I will get into MCW.

31 MCAT (12PS, 9V, 10 BS)
3.4 GPA (ouch)

I'm good friends with the prof's that wrote my LORs, and my extracurriculars are pretty solid: 300+ hours volunteering in a hospital, shadowed for a summer, Red Cross worker, President of the PreHealth club. I even have 2 brothers currently attending Madison's med school, and one of them is on the interview panel. I'm not saying I assumed this would get me accepted, but I would think it would give me a ounce of credibility. Overall I felt my app was pretty strong, albeit my GPA was about 0.3 points to low. Anyway, now I'm faced with what to do after I get my inevitable rejection from MCW in the coming weeks.

I was originally thinking of now applying Australian Med Schools. They have lower admissions requirements and, unlike many European schools, Australia looks at MCAT scores. I seem to be an unusual case in that my MCAT scores are actually a great aspect of my application, so I would be better off going to a school that admits based on them. The cons are of course the stigma that comes with going overseas for medical training. I don't think patients would care as much, but getting the license to work in the US and getting accepted as a resident would be infinitely harder.

My pre-med advisor suggested getting a one year Masters of Public Health degree in Madison and then apply again; though after I looked and found that a MPH degree was actually two years I began to question her knowledge of that path. Also, I don't really have any plans to go into medical administration or biostatistics; the only reason I would want the MPH degree is to help my Med School application and use the opportunity to raise my GPA. If that's the case would it be better to just take grad classes and get a a regular master's degree?

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[cubssox2000]

No one can really give you an answer without knowing what other schools you applied to. Just because your state school doesn't show the love doesn't means someone else won't. It's only October, chin up and keep going!

 

[calnation]

You could boost your GPA with a post-bacc

 

[Lacipart]

No one can really give you an answer without knowing what other schools you applied to. Just because your state school doesn't show the love doesn't means someone else won't. It's only October, chin up and keep going!

I only applied to those three. I was told by numerous people that if you're a Wisconsin resident and can't get into a Wisconsin school, there's no way you will get in out of state.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Doing an MPH WILL NOT raise your GPA. Adcoms look primarily at undergrad GPA, and AMCAS separates graduate work from undergrad. So long story short, after a year (or two) of getting a Masters, your 3.4 will still be a 3.4. From what I hear, a Masters degree really looks more like an impressive EC to adcoms than anything.

If you feel that your GPA is holding you back and you have no real interest in obtaining an MPH, instead consider doing a post-bacc program for a year, where you take nothing but undergrad, upper-division science classes specifically for the purpose of improving your GPA. Also, since you didn't say anything about the strength of your PS, show it to a bunch of people and ask what they think, whether it's strong or not. Finally, you can also always call up the places that rejected you and ask what about your application was the deal-breaker to find out what you should do to improve for next year.

 

[Schlockinz]

I only applied to those three. I was told by numerous people that if you're a Wisconsin resident and can't get into a Wisconsin school, there's no way you will get in out of state.

Wisc schools are very very good schools, and have a very good applicant pool. You may have been able to get out of state with those scores. There are also some schools that put less emphasis on GPA vs MCAT, vice versa, and some that really look into the letters.

With those scores you would have been a strong strong candidate for ND, and some other midwest schools. Hell, that MCAT score would be above average for OU and UAMS, the GPA and out of state would hurt, but you would still be competitive.

 

[gujuDoc]

I only applied to those three. I was told by numerous people that if you're a Wisconsin resident and can't get into a Wisconsin school, there's no way you will get in out of state.

1. whoever told u that is wrong. There are tons of private schools that take out of staters with at the lower end of their GPAs being in the 3.4ish range and at the higher end 3.8-3.9 but with median MCAT scores of 30-32.

You could apply to those. Think Albany Medical College, NYMC, SLU, Tufts, BU, GWU, RFU in Chicago, Tulane, Temple, Drexel, Loyola, etc.

My cousin applied to some of these schools as a Wisc. resident and got in some of them. He did however have a higher GPA. To get a higher GPA you will want to consider doing a postbac or an SMP as a last resort if you don't have other options. I'd recommend RFU's program or Loyola's or Georgetown's or BU's. There are others as well.


Also what are your ECs??? Are your ECs, essays, and LORs strong?

 

[gujuDoc]

BTW OP,

You haven't even exhausted your options here yet by not applying broadly and not applying to a lot mroe schools then 3. the average is 15 schools but many in positions like yours apply to a many as 20+ schools. Some californians even apply to 30+ schools.

So you can't complain just yet. You also hav been getting bad advising to be told not to apply elsewhere if you can't get in here. there are only 2 schools in your state so competition is going to be tough and you are going to have to consider moving out of your comfort zone.

 

[njbmd]

I'm a Wisconsin resident, just got declined to even interview at Madison and University of Minnesota. Still waiting on the interview at MCW (I applied late July) I'm thinking that if I can't even get an interview at these other schools it's dubious I will get into MCW.

31 MCAT (12PS, 9V, 10 BS)
3.4 GPA (ouch)

I'm good friends with the prof's that wrote my LORs, and my extracurriculars are pretty solid: 300+ hours volunteering in a hospital, shadowed for a summer, Red Cross worker, President of the PreHealth club. I even have 2 brothers currently attending Madison's med school, and one of them is on the interview panel. I'm not saying I assumed this would get me accepted, but I would think it would give me a ounce of credibility. Overall I felt my app was pretty strong, albeit my GPA was about 0.3 points to low. Anyway, now I'm faced with what to do after I get my inevitable rejection from MCW in the coming weeks.

I was originally thinking of now applying Australian Med Schools. They have lower admissions requirements and, unlike many European schools, Australia looks at MCAT scores. I seem to be an unusual case in that my MCAT scores are actually a great aspect of my application, so I would be better off going to a school that admits based on them. The cons are of course the stigma that comes with going overseas for medical training. I don't think patients would care as much, but getting the license to work in the US and getting accepted as a resident would be infinitely harder.

My pre-med advisor suggested getting a one year Masters of Public Health degree in Madison and then apply again; though after I looked and found that a MPH degree was actually two years I began to question her knowledge of that path. Also, I don't really have any plans to go into medical administration or biostatistics; the only reason I would want the MPH degree is to help my Med School application and use the opportunity to raise my GPA. If that's the case would it be better to just take grad classes and get a a regular master's degree?

I only applied to those three. I was told by numerous people that if you're a Wisconsin resident and can't get into a Wisconsin school, there's no way you will get in out of state.

Why don't you apply to more schools? Your chances of acceptance greatly increase if you increase the number of schools that you apply to. Those "numerous people" did you an expensive disservice by telling you to only apply to three schools. It's OK to have a Plan B but one school is still in the running and it only takes one interview + acceptance for you to get in.

A graduate degree, outside of an SMP (Special Masters Program) is not going to enhance your uGPA. You need to do postbacc work to raise the uGPA. If you want a Masters of Public Health, then pursue that degree because you are interested in the subject matter and not because you are trying to get into medical school.

If medical school is your goal, then quickly add more schools and apply broadly. At my two schools, both private, there has been a record number of applicants. I am sure that other schools are likely seeing increases too. Since you have already invested the time and energy into getting your application done for this year, add more schools and add them fast. Some schools have a deadline that may be coming up Nov 1.

If the worst happens and you need to reapply next year, then make sure you have done some upgrading on your application. Don't just reapply with the same PS and same letters. There are plenty of people who didn't get in on their first try but managed to make some changes and got in on the second try. Take some additional courses (post bacc) - you can start doing that for Spring Semester anyway and start putting things together for a second shot.

The worse case is that you will be prepared for an early (and very broad) application next year and the best is that you won't need to upgrade anything because you go in this year.

If you do not get in next year with some serious upgrading and broad application (yes, to DO schools too), then look at international but international should be your last resort unless you plan to practice overseas. If you want to practice in this country, then you need to attend medical school here.

Bottom line: Lose the "I am just going to give up" attitude and get busy shoring up what you can as much as possible and as quickly as possible. It's still pretty early in the process and no one has a crystal ball here. Get busy.

 

[chiz2kul]

I only applied to those three. I was told by numerous people that if you're a Wisconsin resident and can't get into a Wisconsin school, there's no way you will get in out of state.

Complete and total B.S.

 

[CarrieBad]

I only applied to those three. I was told by numerous people that if you're a Wisconsin resident and can't get into a Wisconsin school, there's no way you will get in out of state.

Find whoever told you this and kick them in the head. Seriously, apply to the Chicago schools (and heck, apply to Midwestern DO school - you have ever practice rights as an MD, so honestly, there is very little difference). But apply ASAP, because time is an issue right now. Make sure you hit Rosalind Franklin, Loyola, and Rush, and Midwestern (Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine or something like that). Also, if you are feeling very daring, apply to the new medical schools - there is one starting this year in Eastern PA (Commonwealth Medical College or something). Make sure your secondaries are solid.

 

[elementals]

Just real quick:

DO NOT GO TO GRAD SCHOOL just because it seems like a logical alternative to med school. That's what I did, and while I know the PhD will help me in my career, I wouldn't do it again if I could live my life over. Five years after I got rejected from my 5 dream schools (like you, I applied to a very narrow slice of the pie) and went to grad school instead, I'm still dreaming of medicine, and the PhD has just become another stepping stone to that path. And lemme say, a PhD is very very very ****ing hard work, and I would not recommend it to anyone who isn't 150% committed to science.

At the risk of sounding like a hallmark card: pursue your dreams, however you can, or you'll always regret it and wonder if you should have done things different!

 

[GoSpursGo]

Actually, I don't want to be the crusher of dreams here... but I think a lot of people are seriously overestimating the OP's competitiveness. The 32 MCAT is, in general, great, but his GPA is SIGNIFICANTLY below the mean for essentially every allopathic school in the country. While normally he might have a shot at some of those lower-selectivity schools, when combined with the fact that he'd be unbelievably late at essentially any school he added right now, he is essentially an uber-longshot at anywhere he added right now; getting an acceptance wouldn't be impossible, to be sure, but I'd say 97% of the time he'd be wasting his application fees.

If I were the OP, I'd save that money, kick butt on any classes you've got left in your senior year to raise your GPA, use that money you didn't spend on near-hopeless applications to do a post-bacc to raise your GPA further, and apply in June of next year when your chance of acceptance will be higher; then if you STILL don't get in, you'll have a great shot the following year after your post-bacc has helped you raise your GPA even further.

 

[Schlockinz]

Actually, I don't want to be the crusher of dreams here... but I think a lot of people are seriously overestimating the OP's competitiveness. The 32 MCAT is, in general, great, but his GPA is SIGNIFICANTLY below the mean for essentially every allopathic school in the country. While normally he might have a shot at some of those lower-selectivity schools, when combined with the fact that he'd be unbelievably late at essentially any school he added right now, he is essentially an uber-longshot at anywhere he added right now; getting an acceptance wouldn't be impossible, to be sure, but I'd say 97% of the time he'd be wasting his application fees.

If I were the OP, I'd save that money, kick butt on any classes you've got left in your senior year to raise your GPA, use that money you didn't spend on near-hopeless applications to do a post-bacc to raise your GPA further, and apply in June of next year when your chance of acceptance will be higher; then if you STILL don't get in, you'll have a great shot the following year after your post-bacc has helped you raise your GPA even further.

I'll call BS on this.

If you're major is a harder non-traditional pre-med major (i.e. physics, chemical engineering, electrical engineering etc...) than many med schools expect you to have a lower GPA.

I am graduating with a specialty physics degree, and you will be hard pressed to find more than 3 people in my graduating class with above a 3.4 (I have a 3.2 and I have been recruited by the program for a PhD). If you make it past the initial screening, this will be taken into account.

BTW, this comes from what people have told me at the admissions office. A 3.7 engineer is rare, a 3.7 Bio kid isn't. Easier program that does not require true mastery of material to get anything above a 2.0

No offense, but thats been my take on it since I generally suck at bio, yet I can be the highscorer in a class full of kids that have 4.0's, and put in half the studying that they do.

 

[sealsk22]

Yeah dude, honestly, do yourself a favor and apply to more schools. In terms of sheer probability it makes sense, and also, you never know when you are going to happen to click with a particular selection committee person. Pick some more schools and maximize the probability of that happening.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I'll call BS on this.

If you're major is a harder non-traditional pre-med major (i.e. physics, chemical engineering, electrical engineering etc...) than many med schools expect you to have a lower GPA.

I am graduating with a specialty physics degree, and you will be hard pressed to find more than 3 people in my graduating class with above a 3.4 (I have a 3.2 and I have been recruited by the program for a PhD). If you make it past the initial screening, this will be taken into account.

BTW, this comes from what people have told me at the admissions office. A 3.7 engineer is rare, a 3.7 Bio kid isn't. Easier program that does not require true mastery of material to get anything above a 2.0

No offense, but thats been my take on it since I generally suck at bio, yet I can be the highscorer in a class full of kids that have 4.0's, and put in half the studying that they do.

That's all well and good, except for two things:

1) We have no reason to believe he's an engineer or physics major.

2) The crux of my argument, if you look closer, is that IT'S OCTOBER 26. I think that it's entirely possible that, had the OP applied to those schools in June, he may well have had a chance. But today, with very few interview spots left and even fewer seats available at these schools, it's just not worth it to apply to these schools at this point in the game. I'd save the money for the next application season and improve my application as much as possible before then.

If money is really no object to the OP, then fine, apply to your heart's content and maybe you'll get lucky. I'm just saying that considering an adcom won't see his application until December at the earliest at this point, he's an extreme long-shot.

 

[Schlockinz]

That's all well and good, except for two things:

1) We have no reason to believe he's an engineer or physics major.

2) The crux of my argument, if you look closer, is that IT'S OCTOBER 26. I think that it's entirely possible that, had the OP applied to those schools in June, he may well have had a chance. But today, with very few interview spots left and even fewer seats available at these schools, it's just not worth it to apply to these schools at this point in the game. I'd save the money for the next application season and improve my application as much as possible before then.

If money is really no object to the OP, then fine, apply to your heart's content and maybe you'll get lucky. I'm just saying that considering an adcom won't see his application until December at the earliest at this point, he's an extreme long-shot.

Alright, I'll buy this, I keep forgetting that its late October since some schools that I applied to haven't started having committee reviews yet (see UW MSTP).

But back to the OP, take the next year off, take your harder upper level bio courses, and study like hell for that test. Maybe work in a lab and try to get your name on a paper, even 4th author could be a big deal in making you "pop out" in the applicant pool.

 

[Lacipart]

Thanks a bunch guys, lots of good advice (and harsh realities) in these posts. I'll apply to 4 more schools that have a Nov. 4th deadline with the hope that something will catch with someone.

Other then that I guess I better hit the books, still got a semester and a half left in undergrad. I got my wake up call.

 

[Law2Doc]

Thanks a bunch guys, lots of good advice (and harsh realities) in these posts. I'll apply to 4 more schools that have a Nov. 4th deadline with the hope that something will catch with someone.

Other then that I guess I better hit the books, still got a semester and a half left in undergrad. I got my wake up call.

For the reasons mentioned above, an MPH makes no sense for you and you were given very bad advice on this -- that doesn't sound like an advisor I would listen to again. I agree that not applying to enough schools is a potential problem. But if you have a brother who is on admissions, you ought to be able to get some feedback from that school as to why you didn't get an interview. Perhaps your essays were non-compelling. Perhaps you didn't sell the "why medicine" answer compelling enough.

 

[MossPoh]

Complete and total B.S.

Agreed.

Seriously, just take a few classes and up the gpa a bit. Reapply next year. You're stats aren't that unusual, don't make them worse than they are. A 3.4 isn't horrible. I've heard of worse. Your mcat isn't THAT high either; I've heard of higher. Just work on a few impressive things that demonstrate leadership, get a few As in some classes and stronger LORs and try again. I had a friend with similar stats not get any love one year and then the next got accepted to 4 schools. It happens. Maybe throw a few DO schools in. No guarantee there either, but it opens up a few more opportunities.