Goths more likely to self harm

[neutropenic]

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This was surprising to me.
Thought being goth was just a fashion statement.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4905898.stm

 

[Psyclops]

The correlation isn't surprising to me. But I wouldn't see thier gothness as causing thier cutting. Those who are likely to engage in cutting are likely to dress in whatever is percieved as counter culture at the time.

 

[Anasazi23]

The correlation isn't surprising to me. But I wouldn't see thier gothness as causing thier cutting. Those who are likely to engage in cutting are likely to dress in whatever is percieved as counter culture at the time.

"Gothness" can and indeed will cause the cutting in many instances, given the correct psychological diathesis. The culture is one of pain, suffering, and non-conformity, and rests on the idea of exploring the dark recesses of the human psyche. Death, and iconoclastic figures representing death and suffering (dracula) are revered, and mimiced to varying degrees - piercing, cutting, etc. It logically follows that cutting, which produces pain, is relatively non-conformist, and elicits blood, will result.

 

[Psyclops]

A couple of things: one. we're getting close to the chicken and the egg question, although I think your points have merit. two. I'm not sure that the type of cutting they engage in is more or less distressing than the "true cutting" (just what I'm calling it) seen in patients who aren't just mimicking and are experiencing dissociation and some of the more sever psychopathologies. But, perhaps it's more worrysome that a kid would begin cutting just because their friends do, what's next the bridge?

 

[tr]

I suspect that, as with a lot of chicken-and-egg questions, this sword cuts both ways. Kids who are 'a little weird' are probably more likely to gravitate towards the Goth subculture; and once there, they are encouraged by the other slightly eccentric types they find there.

I remember talking to this one Goth girl in my high school, many years ago. She said that she felt understood and accepted by the Goth community because they were the only ones who didn't view her "desire to experience death" as odd. I surmise that being around people who validated that sort of desire would make her more likely to act on it, even if they didn't put the idea in her head to begin with.

 

[sga430]

maybe there would be a correlation but u can not say all goths are into cutting. i listen to death metal which is more underground, insane and hardcore than goth yet i feel i would be more likely to cure a cutter than be one myself (provided I match next year.) i also listen to psychaedelic trance. (the significance of this belongs in another post perhaps 😎 .)

 

[PublicHealth]

i listen to death metal which is more underground, insane and hardcore than goth

Death metal!

 

[PublicHealth]

i listen to death metal which is more underground, insane and hardcore than goth

Which bands? I'm a "death head" myself. Behemoth, Despised Icon, Cannibal Corpse, Krisium, Malevolent Creation, Suffocation, Cryptopsy, etc.

Love the blasting!

P.S. Only time I cut myself was while playing a blast beat on my drums.

 

[Poety]

maybe there would be a correlation but u can not say all goths are into cutting. i listen to death metal which is more underground, insane and hardcore than goth yet i feel i would be more likely to cure a cutter than be one myself (provided I match next year.) i also listen to psychaedelic trance. (the significance of this belongs in another post perhaps 😎 .)

Ohhhhh my trance days <soft sigh> how did I get this old? 😛

 

[Triathlon]

After considerable investigation into the psyche of my younger brother, the above mentioned music had a LARGE contributing factor into his suicide.

So thanks for supporting these *@$%ers!

 

[Triathlon]

Of course you probably haven't done much research into the correlation of music and suicide so my remarks are only to make a point. In my mind these "artists" are an enemy to our cause. So look into it please adn reconsider your opinions.

 

[sga430]

Which bands? I'm a "death head" myself. Behemoth, Despised Icon, Cannibal Corpse, Krisium, Malevolent Creation, Suffocation, Cryptopsy, etc.

Love the blasting!

P.S. Only time I cut myself was while playing a blast beat on my drums.

i am into all those bands as well. i just saw suffocation and cryptopsy a few months ago. i am more of a guitar player rather than a drummer. lately been listening to cephalic carnage. just got the latest dismembered.

as for any genre of music causing harm i feel metal is often a scapegoat. i feel other forms of music are more guilty than metal. (german polka music/ww2, etc.) i dont agree with all the lyrics but then who would agree with hannibal lecture or frakenstein either. it is a form of entertainment.

 

[Poety]

After considerable investigation into the psyche of my younger brother, the above mentioned music had a LARGE contributing factor into his suicide.

So thanks for supporting these *@$%ers!

TRANCE did? or do you mean goth?

 

[Triathlon]

TRANCE did? or do you mean goth?

Well it was mainly the death metal and many milder bands even, like Slayer, Korn, megadeth, and those kinds. He wasn't goth by any means. And trance I have no idea what that even is.
I have looked into the effect of this kind of music on the mind and emotion of its listeners and it has surprisingly negative effects. More disturbing is the intentions of the so-called artists. MANY of them have flat out said they want to ruin lives and cause suicide. They are immersed in a darkness that can only encourage evil. Whatever your take on religion (or any sort of good-evil belief system) may be, you should be able to see the contrast of their message and that of goodness.
I just wanted to shed some light on the topic and hopefully get some of you thinking. This music will not cause a suicide alone, by any means, and the majority of listener will not be affected by it to that extreme. But their intentions are often terrible and many lives are ruined by the influence.
Analogy: What if Phillip Morris company in an public statement expressed the explicit desire to cause as much lung cancer and ultimately death as possible. Would you want to buy their cigarettes even if you knew you weren't going to get cancer? It's the principle and that is what my point was.

 

[PublicHealth]

Well it was mainly the death metal and many milder bands even, like Slayer, Korn, megadeth, and those kinds. He wasn't goth by any means. And trance I have no idea what that even is.
I have looked into the effect of this kind of music on the mind and emotion of its listeners and it has surprisingly negative effects. More disturbing is the intentions of the so-called artists. MANY of them have flat out said they want to ruin lives and cause suicide. They are immersed in a darkness that can only encourage evil. Whatever your take on religion (or any sort of good-evil belief system) may be, you should be able to see the contrast of their message and that of goodness.
I just wanted to shed some light on the topic and hopefully get some of you thinking. This music will not cause a suicide alone, by any means, and the majority of listener will not be affected by it to that extreme. But their intentions are often terrible and many lives are ruined by the influence.
Analogy: What if Phillip Morris company in an public statement expressed the explicit desire to cause as much lung cancer and ultimately death as possible. Would you want to buy their cigarettes even if you knew you weren't going to get cancer? It's the principle and that is what my point was.

Bullsquat. Show me evidence of musicians saying that they intentionally want to ruin lives and encourage evil. Most are sublimating some unmet aggressive and sexual urges. Better death metal than spraying an uzi wildly in the streets. If anything, music is an indirect mediator of suicide. There are a slew of other factors explaining suicide, and they tend to vary cross culturally. Here are some articles that contradict your position:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=8195761&query_hl=28&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...uids=12882414&query_hl=28&itool=pubmed_docsum


Oh, and Korn, Slayer, and Megadeth are not death metal bands. Korn is MTV pop metal, and Slayer and Megadeth are more aptly classified as speed metal and thrash metal, respectively. Now go throw on some Simon and Garfunkel and rock out.

Think of how many people are injured or die at concerts. I'm pretty sure Dave Matthews shows hold the record in both tallys. In my home state, some kid hanged himself at a "DMB" show a couple of years ago. I'm sure it was directly linked to DMB. Give me a break!

 

[Triathlon]

Bullsquat. Show me evidence of musicians saying that they intentionally want to ruin lives and encourage evil. Most are sublimating some unmet aggressive and sexual urges. Better death metal than spraying an uzi wildly in the streets. If anything, music is an indirect mediator of suicide. There are a slew of other factors explaining suicide, and they tend to vary cross culturally. Here are some articles that contradict your position:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=8195761&query_hl=28&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...uids=12882414&query_hl=28&itool=pubmed_docsum




Oh, and Korn, Slayer, and Megadeth are not death metal bands. Korn is MTV pop metal, and Slayer and Megadeth are more aptly classified as speed metal and thrash metal, respectively. Now go throw on some Simon and Garfunkel and rock out.

Think of how many people are injured or die at concerts. I'm pretty sure Dave Matthews shows hold the record in both tallys. In my home state, some kid hanged himself at a "DMB" show a couple of years ago. I'm sure it was directly linked to DMB. Give me a break!

DUDE, did you even read my post?

 

[Poety]

Bullsquat. Show me evidence of musicians saying that they intentionally want to ruin lives and encourage evil. Most are sublimating some unmet aggressive and sexual urges. Better death metal than spraying an uzi wildly in the streets. If anything, music is an indirect mediator of suicide. There are a slew of other factors explaining suicide, and they tend to vary cross culturally. Here are some articles that contradict your position:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=8195761&query_hl=28&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...uids=12882414&query_hl=28&itool=pubmed_docsum


Oh, and Korn, Slayer, and Megadeth are not death metal bands. Korn is MTV pop metal, and Slayer and Megadeth are more aptly classified as speed metal and thrash metal, respectively. Now go throw on some Simon and Garfunkel and rock out.

Think of how many people are injured or die at concerts. I'm pretty sure Dave Matthews shows hold the record in both tallys. In my home state, some kid hanged himself at a "DMB" show a couple of years ago. I'm sure it was directly linked to DMB. Give me a break!

Holy sh$t I'm laughing. Here's a post by PH, (who usually never responds passionately, who's clearly perturbed ) and yet he still manages to add in his links to support his argument - oh GOTTA LOVE YOU PH JUST GOTTA LOVE YA

 

[PublicHealth]

Holy sh$t I'm laughing. Here's a post by PH, (who usually never responds passionately, who's clearly perturbed ) and yet he still manages to add in his links to support his argument - oh GOTTA LOVE YOU PH JUST GOTTA LOVE YA

Careful, new MD, you're not supposed to diagnose over the Internet. 😛

Death metal has perturbed me and made me passionate.

 

[Doc Samson]

Music is art. Art is (often) the expression of the human condition. This is going to include discussion of disturbing and upsetting thoughts and emotions. If we're going to rail against death metal, then there are other forms of music/art that we should be protesting too. This is the same crap that people were worried about when I was listening to The Smiths and Joy Division back in the 80's. We have bigger fish to fry.

For anyone who's interested, here's a nice psychodynamic reivew of the issue:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12824123&query_hl=4&itool=pubmed_docsum

I'm off to burn a copy of The Bell Jar.

 

[Poety]

Music is art. Art is (often) the expression of the human condition. This is going to include discussion of disturbing and upsetting thoughts and emotions. If we're going to rail against death metal, then there are other forms of music/art that we should be protesting too. This is the same crap that people were worried about when I was listening to The Smiths and Joy Division back in the 80's. We have bigger fish to fry.

For anyone who's interested, here's a nice psychodynamic reivew of the issue:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12824123&query_hl=4&itool=pubmed_docsum

I'm off to burn a copy of The Bell Jar.

The Smiths RULE 👍

And what about Pulp? Mile end to name a fav.

PH, last I checked perturbed wasn't in the DSM 😛

 

[PublicHealth]

PH, last I checked perturbed wasn't in the DSM 😛

We all know there's more to diagnosing than the DSM. 😉

 

[Doc Samson]

The Smiths RULE 👍

And what about Pulp? Mile end to name a fav.

PH, last I checked perturbed wasn't in the DSM 😛

Pulp are great. Maybe my favorite band of the 90s with (the london) suede a close second.

 

[Poety]

Pulp are great. Maybe my favorite band of the 90s with (the london) suede a close second.

Lets go on a date, we like the same music 😍

 

[Doc Samson]

Lets go on a date, we like the same music 😍

Wouldn't want to break up the parents of the CN. 😉

 

[Poety]

Wouldn't want to break up the parents of the CN. 😉

dammit... ok. pffft 😛 btw, CN is standing by herself, and saying bye-bye, and talking gibberish, AND crawling upstairs 😍

So, is the consensus that goths are more likely to self harm or what?

Would you say that the goth lifestyle perhaps attracts borderlines or other PD's?

 

[Psyclops]

Would you say that the goth lifestyle perhaps attracts borderlines or other PD's?

Absolutely! When I used to work on an adolescent unit, all the little PDs were into the goth stuff. Although goth doesn't always fit a BPDs personality. Only when they are feeling morose. Usually they want to call attention to themselves but in not such a depressed way, even if they still choose negative attention.

P.S. I don't want any comments about not being able to diagnose PDs in adolescents. Or if you insist they had cluster B personality traits.

 

[psydoc]

I could never imagine that I could find in pubmed papers like those you linked on hard rock and psychopathology!
That's why I never searched for them. From now on I'll never look on any topic taking for granted that a psychiatrist has not written something about it!
Jokes apart I'm very interested to those issues, maybe I'll post more later.