GP for 650k or Perio for 900k?

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GP for 650k or Perio for 900k?

  • 1. GP

    Votes: 36 52.9%
  • 2. Perio

    Votes: 32 47.1%

  • Total voters
    68

PerioDont

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Hi peeps,

this is NOT myself thankfully, but I was just speaking to a perio resident who is going to be graduating with 900k in debt.

went to a private d school with post-bac, and undergrad loans = 650k. got into a more expensive perio program, total is 900k.

What would you guys do in that situation?

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Pay it off....
No in all seriousness, thats the situation unfortunately. That 900k isn't going away. He or she's best bet is to go into corporate or find a very lucrative Perio practice and work as much as possible for 5-7 years. Even by doing this, paying down 900k is extremely tough. I think all of the people on here, BigHoss I'm a huge advocate of always hits on going to your state D school for this reason. This is an asinine amount of debt (pointing out the obvious I know) and even for a specialists in any field who earns above 300k annually, this much debt is insane. If your friend were to earn 300k out of residency ( I am theoretically speaking and just picking a number - they could potentially make much more) and lived off of 60-70k a year..its still going to take them a significant time to pay back 900k.

I chose 5-7 years because 900k is a ton of debt and if you want to be aggressive by paying this off then this may be the time line in order to do that. Let me finish by saying that what I have said above can easily be change by so many factors such as - where you live, demographics of your locations, the type of practice you go into...basically most of the things people talk about when indeed someone posts a threat that says.."How much can a GP make" or "How much can an perio or OMFS or ortho make.."

All in all, I feel somewhat bad for your friend...900k is steep.
 
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I would not want to go almost 1 mil in debt for anything.
 
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i would go back in time and choose a different career. both situations sound TERRIBLE.
 
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Pay it off....
No in all seriousness, thats the situation unfortunately. That 900k isn't going away. He or she's best bet is to go into corporate or find a very lucrative Perio practice and work as much as possible for 5-7 years. Even by doing this, paying down 900k is extremely tough. I think all of the people on here, BigHoss I'm a huge advocate of always hits on going to your state D school for this reason. This is an asinine amount of debt (pointing out the obvious I know) and even for a specialists in any field who earns above 300k annually, this much debt is insane. If your friend were to earn 300k out of residency ( I am theoretically speaking and just picking a number - they could potentially make much more) and lived off of 60-70k a year..its still going to take them a significant time to pay back 900k.

I chose 5-7 years because 900k is a ton of debt and if you want to be aggressive by paying this off then this may be the time line in order to do that. Let me finish by saying that what I have said above can easily be change by so many factors such as - where you live, demographics of your locations, the type of practice you go into...basically most of the things people talk about when indeed someone posts a threat that says.."How much can a GP make" or "How much can an perio or OMFS or ortho make.."

All in all, I feel somewhat bad for your friend...900k is steep.

I actually have a slight panic attack whenever I think about him...he doesn't seem to think about it very much which is probably the best for his mental health during residency

While it is also a result of bad choices...it is just insane that the system could even allow something like this to happen
 
I actually have a slight panic attack whenever I think about him...he doesn't seem to think about it very much which is probably the best for his mental health during residency

While it is also a result of bad choices...it is just insane that the system could even allow something like this to happen

Now-a-days money is predominantly a digital number with little actual value. Most currencies are an abstraction that are not coupled to anything. Think of all the direct payments from the government to people who don't earn money, the crazy loans that are getting made by governments and lending institutions, and our insane fractional reserve banking system... all this to say, none of it really matters. It's all made up - so why should he/she worry? In real terms this person is a dentist living a modern middle class life most of humanity would be envious of.

If they want to be a periodontist, I say go for broke. If they don't then just start working.
 
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Big Hoss
 
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Hi peeps,

this is NOT myself thankfully, but I was just speaking to a perio resident who is going to be graduating with 900k in debt.

went to a private d school with post-bac, and undergrad loans = 650k. got into a more expensive perio program, total is 900k.

What would you guys do in that situation?

As a perio, I'd would want to be as marketable as possible to DSOs that want a traveling periodontist and crank out significant amounts of production to either save for an office or alternative investments that don't involve dentistry. I'd choose the latter if the periomoney is significant as a traveling periodontist. The good thing about traveling specialists is that you don't have to worry about unprofitable postops. If a traveling perio position could clear 1MM+ per year, I'd stick to being an associate. If not, perhaps starting an office would be a better option. All depends on the periodontist's income generating potential, and only he or she can answer that question. 900k is a good amount of money, but not an impossible amount to contend with. If you're looking at it from a 120k/year associate level position with no hopes of making more (or aspirations/capabilities of making more), then yes, they deserve to be a slave for many years for making a bad decision. However, if they can elevate themselves far beyond that 120k/year position, then 900k seems a little more palatable.

Big Hoss may not agree, but I think there are some circumstances where it could be worth it. However, I'd rather stick to GP than specialize.
 
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As a perio, I'd would want to be as marketable as possible to DSOs that want a traveling periodontist and crank out significant amounts of production to either save for an office or alternative investments that don't involve dentistry. I'd choose the latter if the periomoney is significant as a traveling periodontist. The good thing about traveling specialists is that you don't have to worry about unprofitable postops. If a traveling perio position could clear 1MM+ per year, I'd stick to being an associate. If not, perhaps starting an office would be a better option. All depends on the periodontist's income generating potential, and only he or she can answer that question. 900k is a good amount of money, but not an impossible amount to contend with. If you're looking at it from a 120k/year associate level position with no hopes of making more (or aspirations/capabilities of making more), then yes, they deserve to be a slave for many years for making a bad decision. However, if they can elevate themselves far beyond that 120k/year position, then 900k seems a little more palatable.

Big Hoss may not agree, but I think there are some circumstances where it could be worth it. However, I'd rather stick to GP than specialize.

Have you met perio or other specialists who are doing that amount? wondering how possible that is.
 
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Have you met perio or other specialists who are doing that amount? wondering how possible that is.

I know specialist owners are who doing that amount. For traveling specialists, it highly depends on the compensation mechanism. If it's paid on production with little to no regard to collections/ability to pay/default, then it's more likely. I know OM's of some DSOs will offer payment plans that are bound to default just so they can pump their location numbers and OS/perio gets paid for it. Now the big question is that if the patient defaults or they can't collect, is it charged back to the specialist's draw. Hopefully some traveling specialists or those affiliated with DSOs can chime in.
 
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This is why I keep telling young kids, who want to become dentist like me, to stay focused and work hard in school. Try to earn a BS in 4 or less years because the longer they stay in school, the more loans they have to take out. To get accepted to a dental school, they don't need to go to an expensive undergrad college. There are plenty of good cheap local universities they can attend. With good undergrad grades, they don't need to waste a year to attend a post- bac program. Perio should be a much easier (in comparison to ortho, OS, pedo and endo) specialty to get into.....one doesn't have to be the top in his/her dental class in order to get into a paid perio program or a program that charges low tuition.

My nephew is currently a D1 student at a very expensive dental school but at least he doesn't owe any money for his BS degree. He is just an average student. He didn't have any plan after HS. He listened to my wife's advice and went to 2-year community college to save money. He later transferred to a public university and earned a BS there. He got accepted to dental school without wasting any year. He lived with his parents and they helped him pay for his undergrad education. Many of the kids at his age who are much smarter than him (they had much better high school GPA) are still in college and still have no plan for the future. My nephew is a good kid. He listens to his parents, his aunt and uncle. His obedience helped save him time and money.
 
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Join the 6-days-a-week club. And be prepared to commute a lot. Or go somewhere they need a periodontist because the closest one is like an hour away. Those places still exist.
 
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if they can elevate themselves far beyond that 120k/year position, then 900k seems a little more palatable.
It would have to be FAR BEYOND indeed and they (and maybe family) would still be living like a college student into their 30s or 40s depending on their age and payment. I doubt many specialists are specializing solely because they love the trade. Just trying to pay into the principle would be a ridiculous sum. The interest alone would be a killer. Tell your friend to "periodon't."
 
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Either way you look at it at this point, it almost seems insurmountable. With 650k for general dentistry, you're either going to have to do REPAYE for 25 years and pray to the government gods every day they don't go back on their word, or find a way to make over 250k a year and pay it all off over the course of 7-10 years. Not fun either way.
At least for perio, on average you'll be making more to where you can pay off that 900k in around the same time or quicker than you could pay off 650k as a GP, and then enjoy life more afterwards.
Both options suck, but if specializing is your friend's end goal, then I'd go that route over GP, even with that ugly debt load.
 
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I actually have a slight panic attack whenever I think about him...he doesn't seem to think about it very much which is probably the best for his mental health during residency

While it is also a result of bad choices...it is just insane that the system could even allow something like this to happen
I think your friend should look into the Military reserve for some Loan repayment as well as potential bonus money. Good benefits for a small amount of commitment.
 
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It would have to be FAR BEYOND indeed and they (and maybe family) would still be living like a college student into their 30s or 40s depending on their age and payment. I doubt many specialists are specializing solely because they love the trade. Just trying to pay into the principle would be a ridiculous sum. The interest alone would be a killer. Tell your friend to "periodon't."

At 500k/year, you wouldn't have to be living like a college student into your 30s or 40s; that sounds like a gross exaggeration. Let's say that you have 1MM in loans @ 6%. Under a standard 10 year loan, you'll end up paying 11k. If you end up making 40k/month minus 40% taxes (worst case), you have 26k. 26k - 11k leaves you at 15k, which leaves you with a middle upper class lifestyle. Now, if you want to take it easy or live in a completely saturated area and make 120k/year, then you will be screwed at those debt levels. What you do with the remainder of your money is up to you (save for a practice, invest, blow it all every month, etc..). Whoever takes this path must be extremely motivated to produce and work.
 
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At 500k/year, you wouldn't have to be living like a college student into your 30s or 40s; that sounds like a gross exaggeration. Let's say that you have 1MM in loans @ 6%. Under a standard 10 year loan, you'll end up paying 11k. If you end up making 40k/month minus 40% taxes (worst case), you have 26k. 26k - 11k leaves you at 15k, which leaves you with a middle upper class lifestyle. Now, if you want to take it easy or live in a completely saturated area and make 120k/year, then you will be screwed at those debt levels. What you do with the remainder of your money is up to you (save for a practice, invest, blow it all every month, etc..). Whoever takes this path must be extremely motivated to produce and work.
I know you have been around the block and have probably a successful practice and want to help people out, but come on. 500K seems steep, not saying it isn't possible of course, but probably not fresh out of residency. I am assuming that you have to either buy into a practice or straight up buy the practice to get that income potential (also assuming that you have patient referrals etc.).

ADA says 2018 average specialty income is 330K(perio was actually listed at 269K).

BUT, I'm bored so I'll entertain the income you stated earlier. Going with 500K income taxed at 40% will leave you with 300K (25K/month as you said earlier). 1MM in loans at a very unrealistic initial 4% rate will net a 4K monthly payment of interest + whatever you actually want to put into the principle. If you made a 10K payment a month it would still take over 10 years. Don't forget your practice payment, mortgage, kids payments, healthcare insurance, 401K payments, trips etc..you know life expenses. That 15K won't feel like a lot and you wont have anytime to go on those trips because you will be "extremely motivated to produce and work." If the income is lower or the interest rate higher, it is only a worse situation.

OP's friend was already in a hole with 650K and I believe it was a poor decision, at this time, to continue on to an expensive school for a specialty. They should at least put a dent in the loans before pursuing further training.
 
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I know you have been around the block and have probably a successful practice and want to help people out, but come on. 500K seems steep, not saying it isn't possible of course, but probably not fresh out of residency. I am assuming that you have to either buy into a practice or straight up buy the practice to get that income potential (also assuming that you have patient referrals etc.).

ADA says 2018 average specialty income is 330K(perio was actually listed at 269K).

BUT, I'm bored so I'll entertain the income you stated earlier. Going with 500K income taxed at 40% will leave you with 300K (25K/month as you said earlier). 1MM in loans at a very unrealistic initial 4% rate will net a 4K monthly payment of interest + whatever you actually want to put into the principle. If you made a 10K payment a month it would still take over 10 years. Don't forget your practice payment, mortgage, kids payments, healthcare insurance, 401K payments, trips etc..you know life expenses. That 15K won't feel like a lot and you wont have anytime to go on those trips because you will be "extremely motivated to produce and work." If the income is lower or the interest rate higher, it is only a worse situation.

OP's friend was already in a hole with 650K and I believe it was a poor decision, at this time, to continue on to an expensive school for a specialty. They should at least put a dent in the loans before pursuing further training.

Looking at Year 1 of a specialist associate v. GP associate, the specialist associate should make a lot more (looking at the best opportunies and average opportunities of GP/specialist associate positions). Depending on how much each one can make, the specialist associate has a lot more potential as an associate if they are crammed with high value procedures in different locations every day. GP associates require a high flow of daily patients to extract same day value. I think the ballgame totally changes when you become a practice owner. 500k/year no longer seems a lot and the potential to make a lot more becomes unlocked. That's when 1MM of loans seems a lot smaller.

So, to go down the list of all these other "payments":
- Practice payment: save as much as you can, defer debt as much as you can so you can afford a cheap startup. If you don't need to borrow money for a startup, don't.
- Mortgage: Live in an apartment for a year or two. In the midwest, you can probably wing a cheap 100k 3bedroom house. If you're employed as an independent contractor, you could deduct the rental costs potentially.
- Kids payments: Don't have kids yet. If you do, hopefully there's some loving grandparents you can pawn them off too to reduce their financial burden temporarily. Grandparents love kids to a certain extent and want to see them every weekend or so. Don't abuse this too much as grandparents do get sick of grandchildren, then you're SOL for free childcare and maintenance expenses.
- Healthcare insurance: You're young, get the cheapest insurance or no insurance unless you have a preexisting medical condition, then I'm sorry to say, you might be stuck in corporate for awhile. I know a few dentists that stuck at corporate because they needed insurance for their medical conditions and they were essentially a prisoner for awhile.
- 401(k) payments: wtf are you worrying about retirement at this early stage. Take the money and invest in yourself first. The matching might be good if your company matches, but your rate of return is exponentially higher in starting a practice. This only makes sense if you're a lifetime employee with no desire to own.
- Trips/life expenses: The first year is like a sprint. Make as much money as you can to get out of your prison known as associateship (unless you can make 750k-1MM+ per year as an associate). There shouldn't be time for trips on the first year.

That's why I push that people have to be extremely motivated to produce and work. Being a lazy 1 patient per hour type of dentist isn't going to cut it at those debt levels. It's not an easy path to begin, but it gets easier as you transition into practice ownership and beyond.

I used one of those loan calculators to determine what a monthly payment would be for 1MM @6%, 10 year term - came to about 11k/month. Now, this is probably a moot point, but if you're getting yourself into 1MM in loans, you need a concrete plan. If you can spend 200k to achieve the same result (a DDS/DMD), probably best to reduce your degree startup costs as much as possible. However, what's done is done and prepare to succeed or be prepared to live a life of mediocrity.
 
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I know you have been around the block and have probably a successful practice and want to help people out, but come on. 500K seems steep, not saying it isn't possible of course, but probably not fresh out of residency. I am assuming that you have to either buy into a practice or straight up buy the practice to get that income potential (also assuming that you have patient referrals etc.).

ADA says 2018 average specialty income is 330K(perio was actually listed at 269K).

BUT, I'm bored so I'll entertain the income you stated earlier. Going with 500K income taxed at 40% will leave you with 300K (25K/month as you said earlier). 1MM in loans at a very unrealistic initial 4% rate will net a 4K monthly payment of interest + whatever you actually want to put into the principle. If you made a 10K payment a month it would still take over 10 years. Don't forget your practice payment, mortgage, kids payments, healthcare insurance, 401K payments, trips etc..you know life expenses. That 15K won't feel like a lot and you wont have anytime to go on those trips because you will be "extremely motivated to produce and work." If the income is lower or the interest rate higher, it is only a worse situation.

OP's friend was already in a hole with 650K and I believe it was a poor decision, at this time, to continue on to an expensive school for a specialty. They should at least put a dent in the loans before pursuing further training.

I can't think of any GP solo practice producing more than TanMan and working only 3 days a week.
 
What has your experience been with perio practice owners? do you personally know people that are producing 1M+? I imagine that wouldn't be that difficult with implants etc as a perio as compared to GP practice

Perio practices seem to be doing well, working the standard M-F w/ half day Fridays. I personally know some that are producing 1M-2M+, at least the ones that are open with their numbers. Perio practices in my area do implants, osseous, and full bony. If you want to be a profitable periodontist, I will say that you should attack the bread and butter of oral surgery (implants and 3rds) and team up with good restorative dentists that allow for seamless integration of full arch solutions. A good restorative dentist will do a lot of the workup so that your implants don't fail. Now, if you can land a traveling perio gig with high volume of patients (same day osseous, implant placement, 3rds w/ IV (in a state that allows you to hookup many patients simultaneously), that might be worthwhile, especially if your company will fly you around, pay for all your flights, meals, and room. It sucks if you are married and faithful, but I remember a single traveling specialist that did that and he had a woman in every city. Dunno whatever happened to him, but it was a bachelor's dream. Disclaimer: This is from a guy's perspective.
 
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Perio practices seem to be doing well, working the standard M-F w/ half day Fridays. I personally know some that are producing 1M-2M+, at least the ones that are open with their numbers. Perio practices in my area do implants, osseous, and full bony. If you want to be a profitable periodontist, I will say that you should attack the bread and butter of oral surgery (implants and 3rds) and team up with good restorative dentists that allow for seamless integration of full arch solutions. A good restorative dentist will do a lot of the workup so that your implants don't fail. Now, if you can land a traveling perio gig with high volume of patients (same day osseous, implant placement, 3rds w/ IV (in a state that allows you to hookup many patients simultaneously), that might be worthwhile, especially if your company will fly you around, pay for all your flights, meals, and room. It sucks if you are married and faithful, but I remember a single traveling specialist that did that and he had a woman in every city. Dunno whatever happened to him, but it was a bachelor's dream. Disclaimer: This is from a guy's perspective.

do you know what company that was? that sounds like a sweet gig for the traveling perio.

I wonder if it's worth even owning a practice if you can get that setup to start with as no OH or employees to manage
 
Perio practices seem to be doing well, working the standard M-F w/ half day Fridays. I personally know some that are producing 1M-2M+, at least the ones that are open with their numbers. Perio practices in my area do implants, osseous, and full bony. If you want to be a profitable periodontist, I will say that you should attack the bread and butter of oral surgery (implants and 3rds) and team up with good restorative dentists that allow for seamless integration of full arch solutions. A good restorative dentist will do a lot of the workup so that your implants don't fail. Now, if you can land a traveling perio gig with high volume of patients (same day osseous, implant placement, 3rds w/ IV (in a state that allows you to hookup many patients simultaneously), that might be worthwhile, especially if your company will fly you around, pay for all your flights, meals, and room. It sucks if you are married and faithful, but I remember a single traveling specialist that did that and he had a woman in every city. Dunno whatever happened to him, but it was a bachelor's dream. Disclaimer: This is from a guy's perspective.

If you want to do complicated implant cases and 3rds, become an oral surgeon then, not a periodontist. This is why oral surgeons tend not to like periodontists-they often go out of scope because their procedures don't make as much. This is also not the best care for patients-oral surgeons are much better equipped to do these procedures.
 
do you know what company that was? that sounds like a sweet gig for the traveling perio.

I wonder if it's worth even owning a practice if you can get that setup to start with as no OH or employees to manage

I'll ask him if I'm allowed to reveal that information. I wouldn't want to step on a colleague's domain/territory.

If you want to do complicated implant cases and 3rds, become an oral surgeon then, not a periodontist. This is why oral surgeons tend not to like periodontists-they often go out of scope because their procedures don't make as much. This is also not the best care for patients-oral surgeons are much better equipped to do these procedures.

Would you say it's a grey area for a periodontist to do implants and 3rds?
 
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If you want to do complicated implant cases and 3rds, become an oral surgeon then, not a periodontist. This is why oral surgeons tend not to like periodontists-they often go out of scope because their procedures don't make as much. This is also not the best care for patients-oral surgeons are much better equipped to do these procedures.


Could you expand a little bit on what kind of cases a periodontist wouldn't be able to handle for implants/exos? I would understand all med complex, sedation cases even
 
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If you want to do complicated implant cases and 3rds, become an oral surgeon then, not a periodontist. This is why oral surgeons tend not to like periodontists-they often go out of scope because their procedures don't make as much. This is also not the best care for patients-oral surgeons are much better equipped to do these procedures.

With technological advances these days, the number of GPs and other specialties (Perio, Prosth) doing implants will only increase. I would be far more concerned with GPs that take 1 or 2 weekend CE courses that then become full time implantologists.

Scope changes all the time, and turf wars are always happening. I agree that perio shouldn't be touching full bony 3rds, I mean 150 surgical extractions is nothing compared to what a typical OS resident does, but for implants at least, many cases are simple, there are many competent perios out there, GPs care about the best results from who they refer to, and not everybody is medically complex.

Honestly, I feel like a lot of the resentment between the two is the "stolen valor" that OS feels periodontists have. Tbh it is very hard to become an OS ( high rank in dental school, taking the CBSE, extremely rigorous residency) and it is extremely easy to become a periodontist ( the perio residents at my school literally told me if you have a pulse and a couple 100 grand you can get accepted somewhere and residency is super chill). And then they both end up doing 80% of the same procedures and earning similar income. Kind of like how most traditional ortho residents are really pissed at the Georgia Ortho program ( pay 300k and who cares what your rank is). Also OS always tells me they get really pissed when perio messes up an extraction/implant and has to refer to them (which is understandable lol).

I would rather be trained to rip peoples faces off and put them back together than SRP and sculpt gingiva during residency. I would also feel bad saying I'm the specialist in something but then occasionally having to refer out my complications to another specialty, but YMMV.
 
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OK. I've lived and practiced in an urban, saturated city (Phoenix) for the last 27 yrs. I've worked with many specialists and referring GPs.
Some commonalities or household realities.

Orthodontists are known for staightening teeth.
OMFS are best known for extracting full and partial boney 3rds and placing implants.
Perio is best known for alveolar surgery and placing implants.
Of course simple stuff can be done by anybody, but we're talking about the harder stuff.

I believe this to be what the public perception of what these specialists do. I could be wrong, but this is what I see every day.

Personal opinion here. Regarding an anterior implant that requires more thought in the process (tissue, bone grafting, sculpting, etc.) .... I would rather have an experienced perio place an anterior implant. You can get away with alot of crap with the posterior implants, but not an anterior implant.

If you are a GP doing anterior implants. I hope you are able to properly prepare the area with adequate bone (labio-lingual thickness), properly sculpted tissue contours. Alot of these anterior cases require ortho tx to provide the proper spacing and to correct an existing malocclusion.

Turf wars seem to be only getting worse.
 
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With technological advances these days, the number of GPs and other specialties (Perio, Prosth) doing implants will only increase. I would be far more concerned with GPs that take 1 or 2 weekend CE courses that then become full time implantologists.

Scope changes all the time, and turf wars are always happening. I agree that perio shouldn't be touching full bony 3rds, I mean 150 surgical extractions is nothing compared to what a typical OS resident does, but for implants at least, many cases are simple, there are many competent perios out there, GPs care about the best results from who they refer to, and not everybody is medically complex.

Honestly, I feel like a lot of the resentment between the two is the "stolen valor" that OS feels periodontists have. Tbh it is very hard to become an OS ( high rank in dental school, taking the CBSE, extremely rigorous residency) and it is extremely easy to become a periodontist ( the perio residents at my school literally told me if you have a pulse and a couple 100 grand you can get accepted somewhere and residency is super chill). And then they both end up doing 80% of the same procedures and earning similar income. Kind of like how most traditional ortho residents are really pissed at the Georgia Ortho program ( pay 300k and who cares what your rank is). Also OS always tells me they get really pissed when perio messes up an extraction/implant and has to refer to them (which is understandable lol).

I would rather be trained to rip peoples faces off and put them back together than SRP and sculpt gingiva during residency. I would also feel bad saying I'm the specialist in something but then occasionally having to refer out my complications to another specialty, but YMMV.


it seems to me that you personally want/wanted to be an OMFS and are projecting your assumptions.

I assure you it is not 'extremely easy' to become a periodontist and residency is not 'super chill', though it is definitely not the on-call intensity of OMFS.
 
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OK. I've lived and practiced in an urban, saturated city (Phoenix) for the last 27 yrs. I've worked with many specialists and referring GPs.
Some commonalities or household realities.

Orthodontists are known for staightening teeth.
OMFS are best known for extracting full and partial boney 3rds and placing implants.
Perio is best known for alveolar surgery and placing implants.
Of course simple stuff can be done by anybody, but we're talking about the harder stuff.

I believe this to be what the public perception of what these specialists do. I could be wrong, but this is what I see every day.

Personal opinion here. Regarding an anterior implant that requires more thought in the process (tissue, bone grafting, sculpting, etc.) .... I would rather have an experienced perio place an anterior implant. You can get away with alot of crap with the posterior implants, but not an anterior implant.

If you are a GP doing anterior implants. I hope you are able to properly prepare the area with adequate bone (labio-lingual thickness), properly sculpted tissue contours. Alot of these anterior cases require ortho tx to provide the proper spacing and to correct an existing malocclusion.

Turf wars seem to be only getting worse.


From my experience, most laymen don’t even know periodontists exist.
 
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the few non dental people who I told I am going into perio seem to always ask if 'deep cleanings' are a scam haha :rolleyes:

Usually, it's good to explain in terms of an analogous real world example. I.e doing a cleaning when you have gum disease is like trying to fix frame/structural damage to your car by buffing it out.
 
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From my experience, most laymen don’t even know periodontists exist.
True. Before I started dental school, I thought there were only 2 kinds of dentists: general dentist and orthodontist. I didn't know much about dentistry when I applied for dental school. Back then, shadowing a dentist was not required for dental school application.

Most patients don't go see the OS or perio direclty. They go because their general dentists make them go see these specialists. So it is not a big deal if they patients don't know who the periodontists are and what they do for a living. Your success as a perio or an OS depends on the way you communicate with the referring GPs. The GPs are the ones who determine who (perio or OS) is better at handling the complex implant cases for their patients. You don't need to advertise your practice directly to the public.
 
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If you could find work in a nonprofit you could theoretically use PSLF. That's one way out of a million dollars in debt...
 
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If you could find work in a nonprofit you could theoretically use PSLF. That's one way out of a million dollars in debt...
If theoretically the United States hasn’t gone bankrupt by then...


Who am I kidding?! It’s already bankrupt. National debt is $217,000 per tax payer and skyrocketing!

Big Hoss
 
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If theoretically the United States hasn’t gone bankrupt by then...


Who am I kidding?! It’s already bankrupt. National debt is $217,000 per tax payer and skyrocketing!

Big Hoss
Since the loans are held by the governmenr, more often than not, they are basically just letting you walk away with money they already paid out rather than actually paying anything out
 
Since the loans are held by the governmenr, more often than not, they are basically just letting you walk away with money they already paid out rather than actually paying anything out
Except they’ll need that money paid back, or they’ll have to tell Grandma her Social Security is gonna be slashed 20% in 2031. Hope she enjoys eating cat food!


Big Hoss
 
To anyone who thinks it’s okay to borrow $650,000 to become a dentist or $900,000 to become a periodontist, or that the US can continue to spend like a drunken sailor I only have one thing to say...

2CBBF418-2F18-40D8-8343-92AB21648353.gif


Big Hoss
 
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To anyone who thinks it’s okay to borrow $650,000 to become a dentist or $900,000 to become a periodontist, or that the US can continue to spend like a drunken sailor I only have one thing to say...

View attachment 321229

Big Hoss
I know HPSP gets thrown around a lot as a solution for expensive private schools - and I know you were HPSP. But what are your thoughts on the program paying $650K plus stipend for a student? It’s still the US government paying a private school, it’s just coming from a different pot of money (DoD vs DOE).
 
I know HPSP gets thrown around a lot as a solution for expensive private schools - and I know you were HPSP. But what are your thoughts on the program paying $650K plus stipend for a student? It’s still the US government paying a private school, it’s just coming from a different pot of money (DoD vs DOE).
HPSP has become too sweet of a deal, as tuition charges towards insanity. My school was probably like $300,000. If I ran the program, I’d cap it at $300,000 tuition or make it a 6-year payback. Even with a change like that, you’d still have more than enough people clamoring for a spot. I’d also trim all the O4s and up who don’t do crap clinically. You don’t need a DDS/DMD to be a paper pusher. Either sling some amalgam, or GTFO!

Big Hoss
 
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