GPA Dilemma

[87138]

Ok, so I attended one school for two years of undergrad, then transferred (due to a variety of reasons, mostly financial and demographical).

Now, at my current school, I'm finishing up my 3rd year (5th year senior, a lot of my credits transferred as electives). At my current school, I have a 3.92 GPA. The problem is, at my old school, I had a GPA of roughly 3.0. That includes 56 credits worth of class.

The main reason for the discrepancy is that at my first school, I had no real academic direction, wasn't sure what I wanted to study, and made no time to actually do the studying. After transferring, I buckled down, picked something I enjoyed, and developed a whole new "love" for studying material that interested me.

So how negatively will that affect my candidacy for admission to med school?

I will graduate with 150 total credits (56 from the first school and 94 from the second). Assuming my GPA does not change this final semester, and weighting the two totals, I would get roughly 3.58 for a total GPA:

3.92 x 94 = 398.48
3.00 x 56 = 168

368.48 + 168 = 536.48

536.48 / 150 = 3.57653

So that is the raw number that will be spit out, but in terms of recency, my schoolwork has been "exceptional" (I don't say that in a bragging way, but in a relative way). Is there any hope that this will get more consideration during the initial screening, or will it just be read by a computer as "3.58" and filtered out?


Also, in a general Bio class at my first school, I received a C-. Part of that was that I had just had surgery and missed a week or two in the beginning, part of it was that it was actually Bio II and had Bio I as a "strongly recommended but not required course" to take first, and I hadn't actually taken that yet (I know, weird method). I've got a few other Bio classes at my new school that I've aced, but only one of them with a lab. So for my two "bio with lab" classes, one is an A, and the other is a C-. Is this a huge problem, all other things notwithstanding?



Sorry for the long post. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

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[gary5]

The average accepted med student has a 3.5 GPA, so your 3.57 is fine.

 

[Law2Doc]

Ok, so I attended one school for two years of undergrad, then transferred (due to a variety of reasons, mostly financial and demographical).

Now, at my current school, I'm finishing up my 3rd year (5th year senior, a lot of my credits transferred as electives). At my current school, I have a 3.92 GPA. The problem is, at my old school, I had a GPA of roughly 3.0. That includes 56 credits worth of class.

The main reason for the discrepancy is that at my first school, I had no real academic direction, wasn't sure what I wanted to study, and made no time to actually do the studying. After transferring, I buckled down, picked something I enjoyed, and developed a whole new "love" for studying material that interested me.

So how negatively will that affect my candidacy for admission to med school?

I will graduate with 150 total credits (56 from the first school and 94 from the second). Assuming my GPA does not change this final semester, and weighting the two totals, I would get roughly 3.58 for a total GPA:

3.92 x 94 = 398.48
3.00 x 56 = 168

368.48 + 168 = 536.48

536.48 / 150 = 3.57653

So that is the raw number that will be spit out, but in terms of recency, my schoolwork has been "exceptional" (I don't say that in a bragging way, but in a relative way). Is there any hope that this will get more consideration during the initial screening, or will it just be read by a computer as "3.58" and filtered out?


Also, in a general Bio class at my first school, I received a C-. Part of that was that I had just had surgery and missed a week or two in the beginning, part of it was that it was actually Bio II and had Bio I as a "strongly recommended but not required course" to take first, and I hadn't actually taken that yet (I know, weird method). I've got a few other Bio classes at my new school that I've aced, but only one of them with a lab. So for my two "bio with lab" classes, one is an A, and the other is a C-. Is this a huge problem, all other things notwithstanding?



Sorry for the long post. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

The GPA is adequate for many places, but what is your BCPM? It may pay to retake the bio as you'd like to show an ability to do well in all the mandatory prereqs, but I wouldn't sweat the overall GPA stat.

 

[LizzyM]

The overall gpa is average and the improvement over time is far better than the alternative. The only concern would be if you transferred from a top university to a far easier school. Then it might seem as if you performed poorly despite the grades/scores that got you into a good school, transferred to a less challenging school and experienced a ceiling effect (you did well but weren't challenged in a classroom of far less talented students than yourself).

In your PS you might want to address your decision to transfer and the transformation that you experienced once you found some direction in your life.

 

[jebus]

In your PS you might want to address your decision to transfer and the transformation that you experienced once you found some direction in your life.

How big of a deal is it for a student to transfer? I view my transfer as a non-issue. I remember reading an article describing that the NCAA concluded that 60% of all students transfer.
Do AdComs perceive it as deleterious? Is it absolutely necessary to address it in a personal statement? Everybody's transferring. I am thoroughly confused.

 

[DrBowtie]

How big of a deal is it for a student to transfer? I view my transfer as a non-issue. I remember reading an article describing that the NCAA concluded that 60% of all students transfer.
Do AdComs perceive it as deleterious? Is it absolutely necessary to address it in a personal statement? Everybody's transferring. I am thoroughly confused.

NCAA is sports thus 60% athletes.

 

[jebus]

NCAA is sports thus 60% athletes.

No, it turns out that 60% of all the students are transferring.
They looked at the total number of students because athletic programs were complaining that athletes who transfer into a program didn't count towards their graduation rates. The NCAA was weighing a new rule that required athletic programs to maintain a certain graduation rate or lose athletic scholarships. It turns out that athletes actually transfer at a lower rate than other students. University athletic directors felt these rules didn't fairly compare athletes to the rest of their student body peers. I don't have the link at my fingertips now but that was the rationale behind these studies. They are relatively recent articles; they are fresh in my memory.

 

[DrBowtie]

No, it turns out that 60% of all the students are transferring.
They looked at the total number of students because athletic programs were complaining that athletes who transfer into a program didn't count towards their graduation rates. The NCAA was weighing a new rule that required athletic programs to maintain a certain graduation rate or lose athletic scholarships. It turns out that athletes actually transfer at a lower rate than other students. University athletic directors felt these rules didn't fairly compare athletes to the rest of their student body peers. I don't have the link at my fingertips now but that was the rationale behind these studies. They are relatively recent articles; they are fresh in my memory.

You are right. I interpreted it incorrectly.

 

[87138]

In your PS you might want to address your decision to transfer and the transformation that you experienced once you found some direction in your life.

Yeah I had planned to address my transferring in my PS. Basically state the reasons that sparked my decision to transfer. Besides the reasons I already mentioned, I suffered a career ending injury (I was a varsity sport member) and had some really good experiences with MDs/DPMs, so I can tie that in. That partially led to me transferring anyway, as one of the reasons I was influenced to attend my original school was the coaching staff on the team (I know, bad reason).

Anyway, I figured I would elaborate on that, and explain how once I decided what I really loved, curriculum-wise, I developed a thirst for knowledge in all areas of my studies, and thus performed much better. As far as academics between the two schools, the first school I went to is a bit more selective in admissions, but they are both quality schools, and I feel the education offered by both is very similar. I didn't transfer in order to go to an easier school, but the school I did transfer to was much bigger and had MANY MANY more opportunities and higher quality facilities and such.


Anyway, thanks for the comments so far, I'm still a little worried, but not QUITE as much.


To Law2Doc: I'm sorry, I'm unfamiliar with some abbreviations. What does BCPM stand for?

 

[gaylord]

B = Biology C = Chemistry P = Physics M = Math

 

[akinf]

The average accepted med student has a 3.5 GPA, so your 3.57 is fine.

Are you serious? In Canadaa, that'd get you an interview (maybe) and after many hours of prayer, hopefully an acceptance letter. Not to say the US accepts lower class students, but I'm shocked that a GPA like that would even consider applying for medicine. Even Pharmacy, a minimum of 3.8 is needed to be in the least-bit competitive. People with 3.90+ have been known to be rejected.
Yikes!

 

[mazeymaze]

Sorry for the long post. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!![/QUOTE]


No worries.

Make sure that you are clear and concise about your GPA in your amcas statement--its your one place to shine (cuz most admissions peeps will read at least that it if ur MCAT ends up OK). As long as you stress the fact that you "found" yourself and your grades got better then the admissions comittee may even see that as a + over other candidates with higher credentials..I think. I'm a post-bacc and in undergrad I failed Intro to Sociology (um..yeah..it actually took work to fail that class). I aced my post-bacc and I'm in the middle of this process and after 10 interviews it seems that what everyone is stressing is 1) that you REALLY REALLY DO want to be a doctor and 2) that you REALLY REALLY DO want to go to THEIR school. Your grades getting better supports #1 and that actually seems to help a lot. Don't even stress the grades, stress your luv for the work.

Forget about the C-, doesn't mean a thing, but DO explain it on your secondaries when they ask if u had any academic hardships or anything like that and say what you wrote above. Let them know that it was a truly difficult event and the first time u had surgery and had taken a class without a strong foundation, and these things combined tthrew u for a loop, but now that u had that experience, if you come across something like this in the future you are ready to tackle this type of obstacle, even more ready than a person who may not have a C- on their record. Show that you have leared and growm from your experiences. Everyone has stains on their record. Its how you address them that counts.

Don't listen to akinf. I can't even reply to his/her post because I will curse and get kicked out off the forum.

 

[87138]

Sorry for the long post. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

No worries.

Make sure that you are clear and concise about your GPA in your amcas statement--its your one place to shine (cuz most admissions peeps will read at least that it if ur MCAT ends up OK). As long as you stress the fact that you "found" yourself and your grades got better then the admissions comittee may even see that as a + over other candidates with higher credentials..I think. I'm a post-bacc and in undergrad I failed Intro to Sociology (um..yeah..it actually took work to fail that class). I aced my post-bacc and I'm in the middle of this process and after 10 interviews it seems that what everyone is stressing is 1) that you REALLY REALLY DO want to be a doctor and 2) that you REALLY REALLY DO want to go to THEIR school. Your grades getting better supports #1 and that actually seems to help a lot. Don't even stress the grades, stress your luv for the work.

Forget about the C-, doesn't mean a thing, but DO explain it on your secondaries when they ask if u had any academic hardships or anything like that and say what you wrote above. Let them know that it was a truly difficult event and the first time u had surgery and had taken a class without a strong foundation, and these things combined tthrew u for a loop, but now that u had that experience, if you come across something like this in the future you are ready to tackle this type of obstacle, even more ready than a person who may not have a C- on their record. Show that you have leared and growm from your experiences. Everyone has stains on their record. Its how you address them that counts.

Don't listen to akinf. I can't even reply to his/her post because I will curse and get kicked out off the forum. [/QUOTE]




Thank you very much, Mazey, that reply was extremely helpful. I appreciate it.

 

[ND2005]

The average accepted med student has a 3.5 GPA, so your 3.57 is fine.

I wouldn't go that far. You have to consider that the average GPA takes into account a lot of people with low GPAs but other factors like URM, non-trad, exceptional ECs, etc. To just say, "you'll be fine" with a 3.5, b/c it is right near the average is kind of a stretch. There's a lot more to it. Plus, if the OP has been doing substantially better than a 3.5 at his/her new school, then they may hope to be more than just an "average" candidate.

To the OP: there is a thread floating around somewhere (probably a few pages back) that links to Stanford's website. The website has a press release about the new system they use for MD admissions. On some of the screenshots of that system, you can see that the Adcoms get a pretty detailed breakdown of your grades (it shows GPA by year, in major, science, etc). Most schools, whether computerized or not, probably get a similar breakdown. Your more recent accomplishments will certainly be seen, and if you appropriately express your experiences in your PS (ie finding more direction/motivation after transferring), the grades from your new school may be looked at more than the older bad grades.

 

[DrBowtie]

The average accepted med student has a 3.5 GPA, so your 3.57 is fine.

BTW, it is a tad bit over 3.6 now according to AAMC Applicant FACTS

 

[akinf]

Thank you. Gosh, some people just get so hostile sometimes.

 

[MDGuy07]

Are you serious? In Canadaa, that'd get you an interview (maybe) and after many hours of prayer, hopefully an acceptance letter. Not to say the US accepts lower class students, but I'm shocked that a GPA like that would even consider applying for medicine. Even Pharmacy, a minimum of 3.8 is needed to be in the least-bit competitive. People with 3.90+ have been known to be rejected.
Yikes!

Yup. I'm in Ontario and not one of our medical schools admits anyone with lower than 3.8.

US Colleges are a joke compared to Canada, except for obviously schools like Washington, Harvard etc..

When I look at schools like Howard, Mississppi etc... I'm like wtf, why can't we have bull**** schools like that in Canada.

 

[MDGuy07]

Plus, if the OP has been doing substantially better than a 3.5 at his/her new school, then they may hope to be more than just an "average" candidate.

It's ok to just use the male pronoun, no need to bring political correctness to SDN.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Yup. I'm in Ontario and not one of our medical schools admits anyone with lower than 3.8.

US Colleges are a joke compared to Canada, except for obviously schools like Washington, Harvard etc..

When I look at schools like Howard, Mississppi etc... I'm like wtf, why can't we have bull**** schools like that in Canada.

have you ever been to Mississippi?

 

[Rafa]

US Colleges are a joke compared to Canada...


When I look at schools like Howard, Mississppi etc... I'm like wtf, why can't we have bull**** schools like that in Canada.

If there weren't so many silly posts on SDN, I wouldn't get to use this picture nearly as often as I do.

 

[Rafa]

It's ok to just use the male pronoun, no need to bring political correctness to SDN.

I'm not sure when acknowledging the 50% chance that the OP was of either gender became a bad thing. Do you live in a cave?

 

[remo]

Ok, so I attended one school for two years of undergrad, then transferred (due to a variety of reasons, mostly financial and demographical).

Now, at my current school, I'm finishing up my 3rd year (5th year senior, a lot of my credits transferred as electives). At my current school, I have a 3.92 GPA. The problem is, at my old school, I had a GPA of roughly 3.0. That includes 56 credits worth of class.

The main reason for the discrepancy is that at my first school, I had no real academic direction, wasn't sure what I wanted to study, and made no time to actually do the studying. After transferring, I buckled down, picked something I enjoyed, and developed a whole new "love" for studying material that interested me.

So how negatively will that affect my candidacy for admission to med school?

I will graduate with 150 total credits (56 from the first school and 94 from the second). Assuming my GPA does not change this final semester, and weighting the two totals, I would get roughly 3.58 for a total GPA:

3.92 x 94 = 398.48
3.00 x 56 = 168

368.48 + 168 = 536.48

536.48 / 150 = 3.57653

So that is the raw number that will be spit out, but in terms of recency, my schoolwork has been "exceptional" (I don't say that in a bragging way, but in a relative way). Is there any hope that this will get more consideration during the initial screening, or will it just be read by a computer as "3.58" and filtered out?


Also, in a general Bio class at my first school, I received a C-. Part of that was that I had just had surgery and missed a week or two in the beginning, part of it was that it was actually Bio II and had Bio I as a "strongly recommended but not required course" to take first, and I hadn't actually taken that yet (I know, weird method). I've got a few other Bio classes at my new school that I've aced, but only one of them with a lab. So for my two "bio with lab" classes, one is an A, and the other is a C-. Is this a huge problem, all other things notwithstanding?



Sorry for the long post. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

You might want to keep in mind that a C- is not passing at some schools (they will not accept it for a pre-req unless it is a C or better). I was just going through the MSAR and I saw a few schools that specifically said that. You might want to check this with the schools you are applying to.

 

[MDGuy07]

I'm not sure when acknowledging the 50% chance that the OP was of either gender became a bad thing. Do you live in a cave?

The point I made is not an assertion, it is a fact that any non-biased English professor will tell you....

If you don't believe me, see the second paragraph of this page.

http://www.av1611.org/kjv/tniv_he.html

Contrary to what you learned in your sociology, or psychology classes on how to be politically correct, the male pronoun is used to refer to a group of both males and females.

The same is true in the French language.

 

[Rafa]

The point I made is not an assertion, it is a fact that any non-biased English professor will tell you....

I'm not sure where you learned to speak English, but when you speak about a man or a boy (in non-sexist English), you generally refer to said man or boy as he or him. When you speak about a woman or a girl, you refer to said woman or girl as she or her. That isn't being politically correct - it's being gramatically, factually, and anatomically correct.

But you're welcome to refer to girls as "he's" in common conversation, if that's your way of taking a stand against the system. You hero, you.

 

[ND2005]

It's ok to just use the male pronoun, no need to bring political correctness to SDN.

Thank you. If you hadn't corrected me on my PC-ness 4 months later, I don't know how I would have gotten through life.

Also, I consider over-use of gender neutral language for PC-sake to be very different from trying to respect the fact that I don't know the OP's gender.