GPA discrepancy due to mental illness?

[bobbert]

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During my freshman and sophomore years of college, I had a rough time recovering from anorexia/bulimia and my GPA suffered as a result (3.53). As a junior/senior, I was in a much better place and was able to earn straight A's (3.98). While my overall GPA (3.73) was good (I graduated in an engineering or hard science discipline from MIT, Harvard, or Stanford in 2012), I don't feel like it was representative of my abilities.

Starving myself and bingeing/purging aren't exactly behaviors that I am want to share with an admissions committee and I am not super comfortable admitting that I struggled with a mental illness. I was never diagnosed by a clinician other than being turned away from my university's mental health facility after 3 visits, but my amenorrhea, stress fractures, low bone density, anemia, and dental state would attest to my problem.

I would very much like to go to a top ranked medical school. Do you think it would be alright to discuss my anorexia/bulimia as a reason for the discrepancy in my GPA? And how would you phrase it (I'd like to come across as fully recovered and mentally stable now)? Thanks!

 

[wizedw]

first, you have an above average GPA, so good job earning that even when dealing with such a difficult issue. But if you feel that you should explain it, it would show strength on your part to overcome.

 

[theseeker4]

During my freshman and sophomore years of college, I had a rough time recovering from anorexia/bulimia and my GPA suffered as a result (3.53). As a junior/senior, I was in a much better place and was able to earn straight A's (3.98). While my overall GPA (3.73) was good (I graduated in an engineering or hard science discipline from MIT, Harvard, or Stanford in 2012), I don't feel like it was representative of my abilities.

Starving myself and bingeing/purging aren't exactly behaviors that I am want to share with an admissions committee and I am not super comfortable admitting that I struggled with a mental illness. I was never diagnosed by a clinician other than being turned away from my university's mental health facility after 3 visits, but my amenorrhea, stress fractures, low bone density, anemia, and dental state would attest to my problem.

I would very much like to go to a top ranked medical school. Do you think it would be alright to discuss my anorexia/bulimia as a reason for the discrepancy in my GPA? And how would you phrase it (I'd like to come across as fully recovered and mentally stable now)? Thanks!

You are worried about your "low" GPA being a problem for top medical schools, how do you think they would view a mental health issue, ESPECIALLY a self-diagnosed one? How do you think saying "I know my early undergraduate GPA was lower than my later GPA, but I had bulimia, so that explains it! Well no, it was never diagnosed, in fact my school's mental health office refused to see me anymore, but that is what it was!" would look? Do you think that would inspire more confidence than simply leaving the fact that you had a B+/A- average your first two years of college "unexplained?"

Don't say anything, a 3.73 overall GPA will get you some interest from top med schools, especially with a near 4.0 your last two years, as long as you have the MCAT and ECs to go with it. If asked, simply say something vague along the lines of "I took a little more time than I would have liked to adjust to my transition to college. Once I did, however, I was able to maintain almost a 4.0 while also doing blah blah..." Do not volunteer information they haven't requested that they can use as a reason to reject you.

 

[eggs13]

You are worried about your "low" GPA being a problem for top medical schools, how do you think they would view a mental health issue, ESPECIALLY a self-diagnosed one? How do you think saying "I know my early undergraduate GPA was lower than my later GPA, but I had bulimia, so that explains it! Well no, it was never diagnosed, in fact my school's mental health office refused to see me anymore, but that is what it was!" would look? Do you think that would inspire more confidence than simply leaving the fact that you had a B+/A- average your first two years of college "unexplained?"

Don't say anything, a 3.73 overall GPA will get you some interest from top med schools, especially with a near 4.0 your last two years, as long as you have the MCAT and ECs to go with it. If asked, simply say something vague along the lines of "I took a little more time than I would have liked to adjust to my transition to college. Once I did, however, I was able to maintain almost a 4.0 while also doing blah blah..." Do not volunteer information they haven't requested that they can use as a reason to reject you.

this

 

[eagles22]

Mental illness is never something to bring up in an interview/application just like politics and religion. You don't give them a reason to reject you. It's almost impossible to spin a negative into a complete positive.

 

[Praefectus]

If asked, simply say something vague along the lines of "I took a little more time than I would have liked to adjust to my transition to college. Once I did, however, I was able to maintain almost a 4.0 while also doing blah blah..." Do not volunteer information they haven't requested that they can use as a reason to reject you.

👍 This would draw a lot less negative attention since it happens to a good chunk of applicants.

 

[Bangersandmash]

tl;dr - Engineering major at MIT/Harvard/Stanford worried about their 3.73 GPA.

You're nuts.

 

[MedPR]

tl;dr - Engineering major at MIT/Harvard/Stanford worried about their 3.73 GPA.

You're nuts.

Crucial post right here. Thanks.

OP, you're crazy.

 

[thlaxer]

Do not volunteer information they haven't requested that they can use as a reason to reject you.

Pretty much this. I'd much rather be seen as the 3.73 applicant with no history of mental illness than the 3.98 applicant with previous mental illness. Med school can be stressful, you don't want to give schools any reason to think you might not do well. Just my thoughts.

 

[pre med 2014]

Lolz. Self diagnosed mental illness.

 

[pre med 2014]

Mental illness is never something to bring up in an interview/application just like politics and religion. You don't give them a reason to reject you. It's almost impossible to spin a negative into a complete positive.

Crazy. I posted something almost exactly to your first sentence the other day, almost word for word.

 

[antonius89]

I think you guys are being a little harsh on OP. As someone with a mental illness, I understand your predicament OP. I developed schizophrenia my junior year and got 3 C's in math at a top school. I think your GPA is fine. Just say you were severely ill or something but I wouldn't give specifics. I really don't know, but I think your grades are amazing and your upward trend is a good sign, so you may not even need an explanation. My situation is a lot worse than yours. I got a 3.7 overall, even with three C's, and I may need to retake my classes. I have a 3.48 in sciences because of those three C's. I'm glad you're feeling better.

 

[bobbert]

"I know my early undergraduate GPA was lower than my later GPA, but I had bulimia, so that explains it! Well no, it was never diagnosed, in fact my school's mental health office refused to see me anymore, but that is what it was!"

To clarify everyone's "self-diagnosed" comments. It's pretty hard to misdiagnose bulimia when you are bingeing and purging tens of thousands of calories per day and when you cannot stop thinking about food, eating, exercise, or guilt associated with those topics no matter how hard you try. I have binged and purged to the point where I physically didn't think I could get to lecture and mentally couldn't leave my room/the bathroom. I have seen a psychiatrist, who for some reason expressly did not like categorizing patients under a disease name. He confirmed that I had a serious problem that needed to be addressed, although he never said "bulimia". I used up all of my university's free mental health visits, which is the reason I stopped going (and because it wasn't really helping anyway).

I'm not trying to make up an excuse for my perceived low grades during my freshman/sophomore years of college. I had a legitimate problem that really impeded my ability to focus and succeed. I dug a hole and got myself out. Advice is appreciated, but being made fun of is not. Thanks.

 

[theseeker4]

"I know my early undergraduate GPA was lower than my later GPA, but I had bulimia, so that explains it! Well no, it was never diagnosed, in fact my school's mental health office refused to see me anymore, but that is what it was!"

To clarify everyone's "self-diagnosed" comments. It's pretty hard to misdiagnose bulimia when you are bingeing and purging tens of thousands of calories per day and when you cannot stop thinking about food, eating, exercise, or guilt associated with those topics no matter how hard you try. I have binged and purged to the point where I physically didn't think I could get to lecture and mentally couldn't leave my room/the bathroom. I have seen a psychiatrist, who for some reason expressly did not like categorizing patients under a disease name. He confirmed that I had a serious problem that needed to be addressed, although he never said "bulimia". I used up all of my university's free mental health visits, which is the reason I stopped going (and because it wasn't really helping anyway).

I'm not trying to make up an excuse for my perceived low grades during my freshman/sophomore years of college. I had a legitimate problem that really impeded my ability to focus and succeed. I dug a hole and got myself out. Advice is appreciated, but being made fun of is not. Thanks.

I am not saying anything about you at all. The point of my post was to help you see how your situation would look to adcoms if you brought it up. I certainly was not making fun of you, nor was I in any way trying to discourage you from applying. There is simply no way that bringing up your mental health history could help your admissions chances. Just don't being it up, and you should have no issues getting in at all.

 

[Josh7]

8/10 honestly.

 

[CaliGirl14]

Hi!

I'm actually in a similar situation. I suffered with anorexia/bulimia for the past two years and it definitely affected my life at school. Either way, I don't think it's a good idea mentioning it (see my own thread on it here : http://forums.sdn.net/showthread.php?t=955173 ). You're better off not saying anything than giving adcomms a reason to reject you.

Also, I completely empathize with you. While you weren't 'officially' diagnosed starving yourself and vomiting everything you eat, only a fool would say you don't have an eating disorder.

Stay strong 🙂

 

[Bangersandmash]

I think you guys are being a little harsh on OP. As someone with a mental illness, I understand your predicament OP. I developed schizophrenia my junior year and got 3 C's in math at a top school. I think your GPA is fine. Just say you were severely ill or something but I wouldn't give specifics. I really don't know, but I think your grades are amazing and your upward trend is a good sign, so you may not even need an explanation. My situation is a lot worse than yours. I got a 3.7 overall, even with three C's, and I may need to retake my classes. I have a 3.48 in sciences because of those three C's. I'm glad you're feeling better.

Do you know how many threads there are asking if a 3.5 will get into medical school? It gets pretty tiring. It's pretty well established that a suitable explanation for a BELOW AVERAGE GPA (not a 3.73) should suffice if you show an upward trend. It is also well established that you should not disclose mental disorders. General statements about health issues or adjustment problems are fine.

"I know my early undergraduate GPA was lower than my later GPA, but I had bulimia, so that explains it! Well no, it was never diagnosed, in fact my school's mental health office refused to see me anymore, but that is what it was!"

To clarify everyone's "self-diagnosed" comments. It's pretty hard to misdiagnose bulimia when you are bingeing and purging tens of thousands of calories per day and when you cannot stop thinking about food, eating, exercise, or guilt associated with those topics no matter how hard you try. I have binged and purged to the point where I physically didn't think I could get to lecture and mentally couldn't leave my room/the bathroom. I have seen a psychiatrist, who for some reason expressly did not like categorizing patients under a disease name. He confirmed that I had a serious problem that needed to be addressed, although he never said "bulimia". I used up all of my university's free mental health visits, which is the reason I stopped going (and because it wasn't really helping anyway).

I'm not trying to make up an excuse for my perceived low grades during my freshman/sophomore years of college. I had a legitimate problem that really impeded my ability to focus and succeed. I dug a hole and got myself out. Advice is appreciated, but being made fun of is not. Thanks.

A few of us are not judging your disorder. We are just telling you not to worry about a 3.73 GPA in a tough major at a top school. You shouldn't worry about your GPA, especially with an upward trend.

8/10 honestly.

OP am srs.

 

[pre med 2014]

I have seen a psychiatrist, who for some reason expressly did not like categorizing patients under a disease name.

This is because it is a categorical error to classify a mental disorder as a physical disease.

for example, if an actor or actress starves themselves for a film role, they can never prove that they are not anorexic after the matter. If it is a disease, the diagnosis must be falsifiable.

 

[positivityrocks]

"I know my early undergraduate GPA was lower than my later GPA, but I had bulimia, so that explains it! Well no, it was never diagnosed, in fact my school's mental health office refused to see me anymore, but that is what it was!"

To clarify everyone's "self-diagnosed" comments. It's pretty hard to misdiagnose bulimia when you are bingeing and purging tens of thousands of calories per day and when you cannot stop thinking about food, eating, exercise, or guilt associated with those topics no matter how hard you try. I have binged and purged to the point where I physically didn't think I could get to lecture and mentally couldn't leave my room/the bathroom. I have seen a psychiatrist, who for some reason expressly did not like categorizing patients under a disease name. He confirmed that I had a serious problem that needed to be addressed, although he never said "bulimia". I used up all of my university's free mental health visits, which is the reason I stopped going (and because it wasn't really helping anyway).

I'm not trying to make up an excuse for my perceived low grades during my freshman/sophomore years of college. I had a legitimate problem that really impeded my ability to focus and succeed. I dug a hole and got myself out. Advice is appreciated, but being made fun of is not. Thanks.

If I'm understanding correctly from your description above, it sounds like you saw a psych for only a short time, and then decided to stop on your own (after 3 visits?) because the visits were no longer covered by the school? I understand completely if this isn't something you want to discuss on here, but just from the little tidbit you've written above, it honestly sounds pretty concerning. 🙁

Have you received any other professional support regarding this issue? If your psych was aware that you were "binging and purging tens of thousands of calories per day," it seems very strange that they didn't refer your for more intensive treatment. Quite honestly, if it was interfering with your life that much, it seems irresponsible (imho) to expect that just seeing a psych on an outpatient basis when you felt like it would be anywhere near considered the standard of care / medically sufficient.

Unfortunately, I don't have a very good answer for you about how adcoms might react to you mentioning a history of an ED. From my perspective though (as a mostly-anonymous internet stranger), I honestly think you need to be asking yourself a ton of other questions way before you even start to worry about what adcoms might think. Off the top of my head:

1) Do you consider yourself recovered? Do you have any symptoms, whatsoever? ED-related thoughts, behaviors, habits? Be honest with yourself here...
2) What helped you recover from the ED? What didn't?
3) What will you do to prevent a relapse in the future? Do you have a relapse prevention plan?
4) Is it fair for you to take on huge responsibilities associated with caring for somebody else and potentially their life (as an MD, one day)? Is it fair to your patients? To yourself?
5) What have you learned and/or gained from your experience with the ED? Coping skills? Empathy? A stronger self-identity?

Honestly, I'm not trying to single you out here. You sound like a very strong candidate with good credentials, and an above average chance of receiving an offer for admission. I just think it helps to remember your own health, happiness, and wellbeing is important here too.

 

[pre med 2014]

If I'm understanding correctly from your description above, it sounds like you saw a psych for only a short time, and then decided to stop on your own (after 3 visits?) because the visits were no longer covered by the school? I understand completely if this isn't something you want to discuss on here, but just from the little tidbit you've written above, it honestly sounds pretty concerning. 🙁

Have you received any other professional support regarding this issue? If your psych was aware that you were "binging and purging tens of thousands of calories per day," it seems very strange that they didn't refer your for more intensive treatment. Quite honestly, if it was interfering with your life that much, it seems irresponsible (imho) to expect that just seeing a psych on an outpatient basis when you felt like it would be anywhere near considered the standard of care / medically sufficient.

Unfortunately, I don't have a very good answer for you about how adcoms might react to you mentioning a history of an ED. From my perspective though (as a mostly-anonymous internet stranger), I honestly think you need to be asking yourself a ton of other questions way before you even start to worry about what adcoms might think. Off the top of my head:

1) Do you consider yourself recovered? Do you have any symptoms, whatsoever? ED-related thoughts, behaviors, habits? Be honest with yourself here...
2) What helped you recover from the ED? What didn't?
3) What will you do to prevent a relapse in the future? Do you have a relapse prevention plan?
4) Is it fair for you to take on huge responsibilities associated with caring for somebody else and potentially their life (as an MD, one day)? Is it fair to your patients? To yourself?
5) What have you learned and/or gained from your experience with the ED? Coping skills? Empathy? A stronger self-identity?

Honestly, I'm not trying to single you out here. You sound like a very strong candidate with good credentials, and an above average chance of receiving an offer for admission. I just think it helps to remember your own health, happiness, and wellbeing is important here too.

But think about it, it only took OPs GPA down to a 3.53, in engineering classes in a top school at that. So it obviously didn't effect his abilities that much. Since lots of people get into medical school with sub 3.53 GPAs, would it be fair to let those people care for patients?

In fact I would argue OP is better suited for medicine, some peoples grades go down much more for much more trivial life difficulties, yet the OP was able to maintain strong marks in the face of a pretty serious personal problem. Thus, OP can obviously handle his responsibilities well in the face of distraction.

If he/she is still performing better than other students even during his/her mental disorder, is it fair to judge? I don't know, but it needs to be carefully reasoned.

 

[deleted303591]

But think about it, it only took OPs GPA down to a 3.53, in engineering classes in a top school at that. So it obviously didn't effect his abilities that much.

I disagree. I have a 3.2 cGPA in electrical engineering and I have a rare autoimmune disease that basically causes my whole autonomic nervous system to go crazy (except for the autonomic functions directly regulated by the central nervous system). I live with digestive problems of sorts, blood pressure problems, etc, in addition to type 1 diabetes (autoimmune diabetes).

I constantly worry about turning things in on time, making it to class, not getting sicker, etc.

If I were to guess, my grade point is probably affected by .25 to .5 of a percentage point due to my health issues.

Mental illness is often just as devastating as chronic physical illness. It is no different than treating diabetes in the respect that one has to take their medicine, monitor their condition, etc. Even with that kind of intervention complications can still develop, just like diabetes.

 

[Squirrel87]

"Mental illness is never something to bring up in an interview/application just like politics and religion"

This really depends on the circumstances and the person. I wrote about both religion and my mental health in my applications, both of them have shaped me into the person I am today. It also explained a very low GPA (3.2 - your GPA is quite good). As long as you can talk about it maturely and are willing to discuss it when it’s brought up in an interview then be as candid as you can. Personally I think it shows strength so say I faced an issue and I overcame it.
Anyway being very frank and honest in my applications didn’t hurt me a bit. I’ve had several interviews and have been accepted. However I had one interviewer who read my personal statement and it clearly had a negative impact on her impression of me and I got rejected from that school. However it didn’t seem to hurt at the majority of schools I applied to.
Tell the committee about who you are and what has made you into the person you are today. If your problems helped shape you by teaching you something about yourself, giving you strength to overcome diversity, or turned you toward medicine for one reason or another then it seems like a good thing to let the committee know.
However make sure you don’t talk about it too much you have to balance it in with all the wonderful things you’ve done too.

 

[theseeker4]

"Mental illness is never something to bring up in an interview/application just like politics and religion"

This really depends on the circumstances and the person. I wrote about both religion and my mental health in my applications, both of them have shaped me into the person I am today. It also explained a very low GPA (3.2 - your GPA is quite good). As long as you can talk about it maturely and are willing to discuss it when it’s brought up in an interview then be as candid as you can. Personally I think it shows strength so say I faced an issue and I overcame it.
Anyway being very frank and honest in my applications didn’t hurt me a bit. I’ve had several interviews and have been accepted. However I had one interviewer who read my personal statement and it clearly had a negative impact on her impression of me and I got rejected from that school. However it didn’t seem to hurt at the majority of schools I applied to.
Tell the committee about who you are and what has made you into the person you are today. If your problems helped shape you by teaching you something about yourself, giving you strength to overcome diversity, or turned you toward medicine for one reason or another then it seems like a good thing to let the committee know.
However make sure you don’t talk about it too much you have to balance it in with all the wonderful things you’ve done too.

I applied to a single school with no research, no leadership, no shadowing, clinical volunteering started in the same month as I applied, no non clinical volunteering, and only listed a handful of jobs, all unrelated to medicine. I did this with a GPA and MCAT only slightly above the school's average, and used a LOR from a professor who last had me in a class half a decade ago. I got in. However, I do not go around telling other people "go ahead and apply without any of those things, and if you have one favorite school, only apply there, it worked for me!" Being an outlier does not mean what worked for you is good advice. This is especially true when adcom members on SDN specifically state it is never a good idea to bring these topics up.

Congrats, by the way, on the acceptance!

 

[eagles22]

"Mental illness is never something to bring up in an interview/application just like politics and religion"

This really depends on the circumstances and the person. I wrote about both religion and my mental health in my applications, both of them have shaped me into the person I am today. It also explained a very low GPA (3.2 - your GPA is quite good). As long as you can talk about it maturely and are willing to discuss it when it’s brought up in an interview then be as candid as you can. Personally I think it shows strength so say I faced an issue and I overcame it.
Anyway being very frank and honest in my applications didn’t hurt me a bit. I’ve had several interviews and have been accepted. However I had one interviewer who read my personal statement and it clearly had a negative impact on her impression of me and I got rejected from that school. However it didn’t seem to hurt at the majority of schools I applied to.
Tell the committee about who you are and what has made you into the person you are today. If your problems helped shape you by teaching you something about yourself, giving you strength to overcome diversity, or turned you toward medicine for one reason or another then it seems like a good thing to let the committee know.
However make sure you don’t talk about it too much you have to balance it in with all the wonderful things you’ve done too.

And you can walk blindfolded across the highway without getting hit by a car, but I wouldn't try it. Congrats, you did something stupid and it didn't hurt you, but seriously don't try to advocate bringing these points up in anything professionally related to anyone else because it's crappy advice. There is always something better (i.e. less controversial) to discuss.

 

[pkwraith]

You're graduating from MIT, Harvard, or Stanford in 2012? You're still not sure which one yet? Better make a decision soon.

 

[positivityrocks]

But think about it, it only took OPs GPA down to a 3.53, in engineering classes in a top school at that. So it obviously didn't effect his abilities that much. Since lots of people get into medical school with sub 3.53 GPAs, would it be fair to let those people care for patients?

In fact I would argue OP is better suited for medicine, some peoples grades go down much more for much more trivial life difficulties, yet the OP was able to maintain strong marks in the face of a pretty serious personal problem. Thus, OP can obviously handle his responsibilities well in the face of distraction.

If he/she is still performing better than other students even during his/her mental disorder, is it fair to judge? I don't know, but it needs to be carefully reasoned.

That's part of the point I was trying to make with my post actually 🙂

Its impressive, yes, that the OP was able to maintain top grades in tough classes while struggling with a serious illness, but, ultimately its not about grades. Its about acting responsibly to get the help you need to help yourself before you start attempting to help others. Its about having the self awareness to know when you need help with personal issues. Its about realizing that sometimes you do need to take care of yourself before others because failing to do so will most likely not work out well for anybody in the long term.

It's just like those old school airplane safety videos. They all seem to instruct you to put on your own oxygen mask before you start trying to help others. Maybe some people will choose to ignore the advice because it seems "selfish" to put their own safety before that of others, or simply because they seem to be doing okay initially, despite the circumstances (not unlike the OP here!). Overtime though, the people who never stop to take care of themselves are far less capable of helping others. Eventually, things catch up to them, the oxygen runs out -- no matter how strong they are and/or appear to be, they simply can't live without oxygen. Its the "selfish" ones who took time to help themselves when they needed it that are actually likely there to help long term.

 

[MrSunny1]

We all eventually face some sort of condition whether it is anxiety, depression, ocd, stress, headaches, flu, drugs, even a real live diagnosed illness. In most cases it would be better to avoid a sob story especially if you had a well above average GPA. Really..?. focus on your positives you have like 20-30 minutes in an interview do you think it is a good idea to spend that talking about your bulimia/(negatives)? The only and I mean only way I would ever mention it is if your interviewer adamantly probed into your slightly lower performance but very unlikely.

 

[Squirrel87]

As I said it depends on the circumstance and the person. If I was in the OP's shoes with a 3.7 and a degree from MIT, Harvard, or Standford I might not discuss personal problems unless they significantly shaped who you are and your motivation to be a doctor.

I wasn't saying to "walk blindfolded across a highway" or that everyone should talk about these things but just that if you feel you need to it's not going to necessarily keep you out.

By the way there is no need to be rude. It sounds like the OP is probably bright enough to take advice from a forum like this with a grain of salt and do what is best for their personal situation.