Grad School for Existential/Humanistic Psychology?

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mlaumeister

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Hello, I wish to go to graduate school for Existential/Humanistic Psychology. I am fascinated by this branch of Psychology; fear the conventional approach will bore the hell out of me. I am disposed to philosophy, go figure.

I have many questions, the main one being- what does a career look like for one with a track in this sector of Psychology?

I have narrowed down the Schools specializing in this branch such as Pacifica University, Saybrook, Sofia, West Georgia et. al. I am so curious what the real life career prospects and realities are for those who have graduated from a Graduate school for Existential/Humanistic Psychology - both Masters and Ph.D.

All related entries welcome on this subject. Thank you!
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OP -

I would also suggest you look at Miami University (Ohio) and York University (Toronto) Clinical Psych programs.

For Masters, I'd add Sonoma State, Seattle University and University of Dallas.

Duquesne, of course, sounds perfect for you.

I think (and Im sure you will hear this 1000 times on this forum) that the debt and barriers to the profession you face with a degree from Pacifica, Saybrook, Sofia, CIIS etc are not worth it.
 
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Thank you! I am aware of Duquesne Unv. -- from what I've researched, it's very difficult to get into. I thought I'd start in a masters and segue in to a Ph.D. should that feel right-- Duq only offers aPh.D. is the other thing.
 
Really?! No i did not know that. This is exactly why I am asking!

So Miami, York, Sonoma State, Seattle University and University of Dallas are good ones though?

Oh gosh, I know about Duquesne! As I said, it is extremely competetive. i have in mund to start with a Masters and do very well, then transfer to D- should be easier to get in that way. So yeah I'm looking in to a Masters specifically at this point.

You seem to know what you are talking about. This is great, thank you!
 
For Masters programs, both Dallas and Seattle are explicitly existential/phenomenological. Dallas used to have a doctoral program, which many of Pacifica, Duquesne and Saybrook faculty came from.
 
ela said:
For Masters programs, both Dallas and Seattle are explicitly existential/phenomenological. Dallas used to have a doctoral program, which many of Pacifica, Duquesne and Saybrook faculty came from.
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Would you recommend Dallas and Seattle then? Pacifica, Saybrook, Sofia are not recommended here. I don't know what your back ground is but you seem to know the ropes here! I am a newbie and am on this road to figuring these specifics out. I don't want to learn upon starting in a program, for the obvious reasons. It's rather daunting I have to say.
 
jferd said:
I would second the recommendation to look at York University if you don't mind moving to Canada. On its faculty are several of the most relevant humanistic-experiential researchers in the field today, most notably Les Greenberg and Alberta Pos. Les Greenberg's emotion-focused therapy is the only humanistic treatment on APA Division 12's empirically supported treatments list -- your mileage may vary on how authoritative you consider the EST list.
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I am at the web site right now- York Unv!
This is fantastic, thank you!
 
Hello!

I am peruvian, 24 years old, and I have a bachellor degree in Business. After a year of psychotherapy, and after discovering the line of thought of Frankl, Fromm, Yalom, etc, I have realized I want to be a Humanistic/Existential Counselor. I want to persue a Grad Program in this branch of Psychology. It is really hard to find programs that allow non psychologists like me. What would you recommend?

Thank you!

Maria
 
mlaumeister said:
Would you recommend Dallas and Seattle then? Pacifica, Saybrook, Sofia are not recommended here. I don't know what your back ground is but you seem to know the ropes here! I am a newbie and am on this road to figuring these specifics out. I don't want to learn upon starting in a program, for the obvious reasons. It's rather daunting I have to say.
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I really don't understand why those types of schools aren't recommended. While they may have low APA match rates, it really doesn't matter for someone who goes into private practice. It doesn't matter at all. You can still get licensed and bill at the same rate as anyone else in private practice with the same credentials. I know this OP doesn't want that, but I'm just saying in general...

And also, a lot of the ones with PhDs/PsyDs do, in fact, teach at like-minded schools with that kind of coursework.

Its not like you're ONLY taught one form of therapy and because you're exposed to a school with a more Jungian base, you automatically don't learn and can't do any other form of psychotherapy.


There have been many successful private practice psychotherapists and psychologists who have graduated from schools like those. While I don't actively keep tabs, I hear about them every now and then. Dr. Eres Huemer seems to be the newest one I keep hearing about left and right. While she is heavily in the public eye now due to being on the Bravo TV show LA Shrinks, she was still pretty successful before that.

She did 100% of her education online too, from bachelors, to MFT, to PsyD. And those schools listed above don't only have online programs. She's just one random example that popped into my head.
 
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neutralpalatte said:
I really don't understand why those types of schools aren't recommended. While they may have low APA match rates, it really doesn't matter for someone who goes into private practice. It doesn't matter at all. You can still get licensed and bill at the same rate as anyone else in private practice with the same credentials. I know this OP doesn't want that, but I'm just saying in general...
And also, a lot of the ones with PhDs/PsyDs do, in fact, teach at like-minded schools with that kind of coursework.
Its not like you're ONLY taught one form of therapy and because you're exposed to a school with a more Jungian base, you automatically don't learn and can't do any other form of psychotherapy.
There have been many successful private practice psychotherapists and psychologists who have graduated from schools like those. While I don't actively keep tabs, I hear about them every now and then. Dr. Eres Huemer seems to be the newest one I keep hearing about left and right. While she is heavily in the public eye now due to being on the Bravo TV show LA Shrinks, she was still pretty successful before that.
She did 100% of her education online too, from bachelors, to MFT, to PsyD. And those schools listed above don't only have online programs. She's just one random example that popped into my head.
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Some people view attending a capstone training experience that is peer review and subsequently accredited by the governing body of the profession to be important for ensuring standards and the overall health of the profession.

Peer review is one method of ensuring that a quality product is being issued to the public. This is well accepted notion in industry, production, medicine, pharm, etc. I am not sure why we should be any different?[/QUOTE]
 
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Accreditation matters very much if you want to be licensed in certain states, or work for certain organizations. Additionally, some insurances will not reimburse you if you don't have board certification in a certain area. This is not universal, but it is becoming more common. The accredited route will become more and more crucial heading forward.
 
WisNeuro said:
Accreditation matters very much if you want to be licensed in certain states, or work for certain organizations. Additionally, some insurances will not reimburse you if you don't have board certification in a certain area. This is not universal, but it is becoming more common. The accredited route will become more and more crucial heading forward.
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Okay then rationally explain why people hate professional schools? Those ARE APA accredited. Not only the schools, but the PhD/PsyD programs as well. Yet people on this board still hate them. I don't see how an APA accredited program would, in any way, affect someone's ability to solely do private practice work. Can someone elaborate?
 
neutralpalatte said:
Okay then rationally explain why people hate professional schools? Those ARE APA accredited. Not only the schools, but the PhD/PsyD programs as well. Yet people on this board still hate them.
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Low admission standards, large class sizes, little reguard for market demand (prefering to look at making money from enrolling as many as they can), lack of focus on basic science and subsequent scholarly productivity, lack of focus on emprically based treatment methods, low APA match rates, unaccertable EPPP pass rates, lower quality faculty as demostrated by their scholarly productivity in the chosen area, lower employment rates 2 years following graduation...etc.

Would you like me to go on?
 
erg923 said:
Low admission standards, large class sizes, little reguard for market demand (prefering to look at making money from enrolling as many as they can), lack of focus on science and scholarly productivity, low APA match rates, unaccertable EPPP pass rates, lower quality faculty as demostrated by their scholarly productivity in the chosen area, lower employment rates 2 years following graduation...etc.

Would you like me to go on?
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...And that affects someone who wants to be solely in private practice, how exactly? Private practice is just based off how good of a psychotherapist/psychologist you are, plus your marketing and networking abilities.

You get out of school what you put into it. Some people love humanistic/transpersonal/analytical psychology. Some people like what is taught at professional schools and don't mind it. Not everyone has the same goals. I mean, should we go around and start telling everyone with a bachelors degree that they might as well give up getting any decent job unless they got a BA/BS from an ivy league (or equivalent) school? Nope. Not buying any of this logic at all.
 
neutralpalatte said:
...And that affects someone who wants to be solely in private practice, how exactly? Private practice is just based off how good of a psychotherapist/psychologist you are, plus your marketing and networking abilities. You get out of school what you put into it.
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Many of those result in poor training. Poor training results in poor practitioners.
 
It's about a standard of training. If it's accredited, it has to meet at least a minimum bar for things like didactics, supervision, etc. That's why accredited internships matter. Yes, it matters more for certain careers, but as a student, I would enjoy having as much flexibility career-wise as possible, especially with changes in insurance reimbursement, which will very likely hit PP people much harder than those of us in institutions.
 
neutralpalatte said:
Wouldn't who you train under matter more than where you went to school? Lol. Obviously.
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No. On person does not take the place of an aggregate amount of developmental training experiences over time.
 
If Bob's Crab Shack & Moonbeam Therapy University offered a degree in psychology….does it matter that it isn't accredited? I've heard Bob is a swell guy, technically a counselor somehow, and a darn good chef! That sounds like the same thing as a person getting a psychology degree from State University from Dr. Traditional University Guy. Totally the same!
 
Therapist4Chnge said:
If Bob's Crab Shack & Moonbeam Therapy University offered a degree in psychology….does it matter that it isn't accredited? I've heard Bob is a swell guy, technically a counselor somehow, and a darn good chef! That sounds like the same thing as a person getting a psychology degree from State University from Dr. Traditional University Guy. Totally the same!
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Ummm no. Because "Bob's Crab Shack" wouldn't meet the requirements for licensing in order to go into private practice. If it meets the requirements for licensing, then there is not a problem.

And by the way, those 3 schools listed above (Pacifica, Sofia, Saybrook, CIIS, etc all of those) ARE regionally accredited. Just not all their programs are APA accredited yet. Professional schools are both regionally accredited as well as APA accredited. But APA accreditation means nothing when you solely plan to do private practice.
 
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Therapist4Chnge said:
If Bob's Crab Shack & Moonbeam Therapy University offered a degree in psychology….does it matter that it isn't accredited? I've heard Bob is a swell guy, technically a counselor somehow, and a darn good chef! That sounds like the same thing as a person getting a psychology degree from State University from Dr. Traditional University Guy. Totally the same!
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When the moon is full, my kids act like heathens and my wife cries at the drop of hat. Dont tell me there nothing to this moonbeam stuff!
 
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neutralpalatte said:
Ummm no. Because "Bob's Crab Shack" wouldn't meet the requirements for licensing in order to go into private practice. If it meets the requirements for licensing, then there is not a problem.

And by the way, those 3 schools listed above (Pacifica, Sofia, Saybrook, CIIS, etc all of those) ARE regionally accredited. Just not all their programs are APA accredited yet. Professional schools are both regionally accredited as well as APA accredited. But APA accreditation means nothing when you solely plan to do private practice.
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It means something to the larger profession, right? Do you care about reputation/viability/quality of the profession you want to be a part of? If you dont support peer reviewed training experiences (as every other health profession does), then I would say the answer to that question is no.
 
erg923 said:
It means something to the larger profession, right? Do you care about reputation/viability/quality of the profession you want to be a part of? If you dont support peer reviewed training experiences (as every other health profession does), then I would say the answer to that question is no.
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That is not true in California. Like more than half the practitioners here either graduated from Pacifica/Saybrook/Sofia/CIIS or a professional school. And if you want to do humanistic work, the best thing to do is... go to a humanistic school like Pacifica/Saybrook/Sofia/CIIS. (And its only a few classes on the topic at best, due to the heavy amount of required courses the program must contain in order to be eligible for licensure.)

Its when you go out of your way to go out and criticize coursework (humanistic) that you don't PERSONALLY like, that it becomes a problem, and only a problem for yourself. Not for that practioner. Done replying over this.
 
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neutralpalatte said:
But APA accreditation means nothing when you solely plan to do private practice.
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In some select areas, sure, doesn't mean much. This is terrible advice to give generally though. This severely limits someone's career flexibility. It closes the doors of some of the largest employers of psychologists. Additionally, as I have said, it will become harder for you to get reimbursed by insurance companies, and this difficulty will only increase in the future. We're not criticizing humanistic approaches, we're criticizing poor training and lack of opportunity.
 
neutralpalatte said:
That is not true in California. Like more than half the practitioners here either graduated from Pacifica/Saybrook/Sofia/CIIS or a professional school. And if you want to do humanistic work, the best thing to do is... go to a humanistic school like Pacifica/Saybrook/Sofia/CIIS. (And its only a few classes on the topic at best, due to the heavy amount of required courses the program must contain in order to be eligible for licensure.)

Its when you go out of your way to go out and criticize coursework (humanistic) that you don't PERSONALLY like, that it becomes a problem, and only a problem for yourself. Not for that practioner. Done replying over this.
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That didnt answer my question.

And, I guess I "personally dont like it" because controlled research says we have things that work better. I would prefer to start with what works best first, then work my way down the line. Again, a commonly accepeted practice standard in industry/production, pharm, medicine. Not sure why would should be any different?
 
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I think it is a really poor idea to take an educational path that would essentially restrict you to only private practice. I think the idea of working in PP is way over-romanticized by undergrads and even grad students. The day to day of PP can be a grind and there are many negatives (no benefits, professional isolation, lack of variety in responsibilities...) that people don't think about before they are actually working in that setting. I have seen a lot of colleagues work in PP and then leave for something else after becoming dissatisfied with the lifestyle, money, inconsistent income, etc. One of those colleagues had even worked in the field 15-20 years before burning out and moving to a medical center gig. You want to keep your options open. You have no idea where you will want to work in 10 years.
 
Doctor Eliza said:
I think it is a really poor idea to take an educational path that would essentially restrict you to only private practice. I think the idea of working in PP is way over-romanticized by undergrads and even grad students. The day to day of PP can be a grind and there are many negatives (no benefits, professional isolation, lack of variety in responsibilities...) that people don't think about before they are actually working in that setting. I have seen a lot of colleagues work in PP and then leave for something else after becoming dissatisfied with the lifestyle, money, inconsistent income, etc. One of those colleagues had even worked in the field 15-20 years before burning out and moving to a medical center gig. You want to keep your options open. You have no idea where you will want to work in 10 years.
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Actually, that poster's attitude is probably ONLY congruent with having herself as her supervisor.
 
I'm not really concerned with changing her mind. At this point, she's just trying to get a rise out of us. I was posting for open-minded others out there that might be naïve about what it is like to be a PP psychologist.
 
neutralpalatte said:
There have been many successful private practice psychotherapists and psychologists who have graduated from schools like those. While I don't actively keep tabs, I hear about them every now and then. Dr. Eres Huemer seems to be the newest one I keep hearing about left and right. While she is heavily in the public eye now due to being on the Bravo TV show LA Shrinks, she was still pretty successful before that.
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When I was in early school, one of my friends heard that the founder of some fast food restaurant (I don't know which one) had dropped out of school. My friend's idea was, then, that he would also drop out of school, and in doing so would also become a millionaire.
 
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MCParent said:
When I was in early school, one of my friends heard that the founder of some fast food restaurant (I don't know which one) had dropped out of school. My friend's idea was, then, that he would also drop out of school, and in doing so would also become a millionaire.
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Ah, the Bill Gates effect. Remind me to discuss with my son in about 10 years....
 
Yes, you can succeed in life without going to school and you might even be able to make money as a therapist without getting good training. I prefer to play the odds in life, which is consistent with the message of all of healthcare including psychology. Some people will get better without treatment and some might die of a heart attack. I think I will get the angioplasty!
 
Doctor Eliza said:
there are many negatives (no benefits, professional isolation, lack of variety in responsibilities...) that people don't think about before they are actually working in that setting.
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That's already been my reality for years now. I'm self-employed already. And I don't mind it.


Doctor Eliza said:
You have no idea where you will want to work in 10 years.
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You have no idea what the world, let alone the job market, will be like in 10 years. And for all we know, Harvard will start offering PhDs online (this is an exaggerated example) in 10 years. I mean, USC just started offering MSW 100% online and most state schools in California now offer MSW 100% online too. I'm pretty sure PhD and PsyD is around the corner and will be here in just a matter of time. Online or hybrid programs at least, have proven to be the future whether you want that to be the case or not.
 
neutralpalatte said:
There have been many successful private practice psychotherapists and psychologists who have graduated from schools like those. While I don't actively keep tabs, I hear about them every now and then. Dr. Eres Huemer seems to be the newest one I keep hearing about left and right. While she is heavily in the public eye now due to being on the Bravo TV show LA Shrinks, she was still pretty successful before that.

She did 100% of her education online too, from bachelors, to MFT, to PsyD. And those schools listed above don't only have online programs. She's just one random example that popped into my head.
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Dr. Eris Huemer is a MFT, not a licensed psychologist. She was also part of the Bravo Show LA Shrinks where she aired the sordid details of her personal life in the context of who she is as a therapist. Quite possibly one of the saddest examples that could have been provided.
 
How do these psychologist who are not mainstream become licensed and have thriving practice. I know psychologist who practice polarity therapy, massage therapy, acupuncture, and Yoga as part of their psychology practice. In California and Washington there are Psychologist practicing Palm Reading and communicating with people in the afterlife and reading Tarot cards...:)
 
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LPPSYD said:
Dr. Eris Huemer is a MFT, not a licensed psychologist. She was also part of the Bravo Show LA Shrinks where she aired the sordid details of her personal life in the context of who she is as a therapist. Quite possibly one of the saddest examples that could have been provided.
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She has both an MFT and a PsyD. Both. She talks about them both here: http://drdrew.com/078-eris-huemer/ I believe she just finished her PsyD, and after the show had been filmed. Hers is in MFT not psychology, but she is still a doctor and MFT, just not a psychologist. But that is irrelevant as I was talking about having any license, not specifically MFT or psychologist. I never once claimed she was a psychologist either.
 
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She has a PsyD in MFT and not in Psychology.
 
Do you think she comported herself in a professional manner on that super awesome program?
 
Right. And I have a "doctor of psychology" degree in Mathematics. It doesn't make any sense.
 
Here is what her Psychology Today ad has and she made 1.5 million last year as she is now an actress:

Eris Huemer
Marriage & Family Therapist, PsyD, MFT

I hold a Doctorate Degree in Marriage and Family Therapy and a Master's Degree in counseling Psychology.
 
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