Grade Inflation

[digitlnoize]

I been seeing alot about this lately, and just wanted to throw this out there.

I've been hearing alot about grade inflation at one school vs. another. I'm fairly certain that it is harder to get a 4.0 at say, Harvard than at, say, Ferrum College.

What people have not been talking about though, is the effect of individual teachers on grades. For example, at my (state) school, there are a handful of different organic chemistry professors. Most people try to take it from the 2 or 3 who:

1. Curve their grades ALOT and
2. Teach easier material.

Others opt (or have no idea) to take it from the more difficult teacher who actually teaches the material, but gives HARD tests and no forgiveness. I took O-Chem from her, and learned the material very well and got an A. When TA-ing for her the next year, I was not surprised to hear that her class has the highest average on the ACS exam we all take at the end of semester 2.

My point is, I think professor choice WITHIN a university is having a FAR greater effect than school choice. Thanks to sites like www.ratemyprofessor.com and the like, we are able to find out a lot about profs ahead of time, and avoid mistakes that mean lower grades.

Now, people will argue that schools like Harvard have better faculty, so there is no "easy" teacher...but I am sure that some teachers will still be better educators than others.

Anyways...just wanted to hear others' thoughts on the matter.

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[postbaccer2006]

Having gone to Harvard for undergrad (but certainly not ending up with a 4.0), I can attest that reports of grade inflation there are totally blown out of proportion. There's a good reason that there have been less than 10 students graduate with a 4.0 in the last 100 years.

 

[estairella]

My point is, I think professor choice WITHIN a university is having a FAR greater effect than school choice.

I would agree that this is certainly true for many (most?) places, but not all. For example, I am a Psychology major and in my department, different psychology courses are classified as "hard" (B- average), normal (C+ average) and "easy" (C average). All class averages must fall within a 2-3% range in these limits. Only in rare cases (e.g. only 5 people in a class so high statistical variability), by special request from the professor (and approval from the department head), is a class allowed to deviate from their assigned course average for a specific term.

From my experience, it doesn't really matter whether I take it with an easy prof or a hard prof. With an easy prof, the majority scores A- or higher, so the class average plummets at the end, meaning that I have to excel (A or A+) to pull in an A- by the end. With a hard prof, the majority score C- or F, and the class average rises accordingly, so I only need to get a B or so to end up with an A-. Nobody tells you what the courses are classified as, so it's often a crapshoot anyways (though I've only landed one "easy course" so far, luckily - most are normal and a few are "hard"). Of course, I still will choose the easy profs because, well, they're easier to study for so there's more time for mememe!

 

[wood41]

yeah i wanna know this too. so if you go to a more rigorous school, do they add some points to your gpa or do they see everyone as the same?

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

yeah i wanna know this too. so if you go to a more rigorous school, do they add some points to your gpa or do they see everyone as the same?

Nobody adds anything to your gpa based on where you're from. That's why the MCAT (and at the next level, the USMLE) is so important, because it's a nationally standardized and objective way to directly compare students from hundreds of undergrads, all with different majors and grading policies.

 

[ssquared]

Having gone to Harvard for undergrad (but certainly not ending up with a 4.0), I can attest that reports of grade inflation there are totally blown out of proportion. There's a good reason that there have been less than 10 students graduate with a 4.0 in the last 100 years.

But what about the 80% or so that graduate with honors? Doesn't that sounds kinda ridiculous to you?

But I digress. I do agree with the OP that individual profs certainly do affect your grades more significantly that an institution's reputation for inflation/deflation. That's why chosing wisely (if you can) is a very smart thing to do, indeed. The prof's name doesn't go on your transcript, just the course, so you have to make wise decisions.

 

[digitlnoize]

All class averages must fall within a 2-3% range in these limits.

I think there's something similar at my school though. The problem lies in how the teachers decide to decide these averages. I guess its not so much a problem of easy vs hard teachers as it is good vs bad teachers.

For example, my Physics I teacher was god awful. Horrible teacher. Class average on any given test was in the 30's. Not kidding. She would take your test grade, take the square root, then multiply by 10 to get your curve. Then she'd do the same thing to your final grade. I know that some people will still study harder, but it still sucks.

Or to use another example. There was a biochem class taught by 3 professors. 2 Organic Chemistry TA's I knew were in said class. They got A's in orgo with the "hard" teacher. They wound up dropping biochem because they had a 65 average due to the HORRIBLE teachers. Class avg was again around 35. The teachers wound up curving everyone at the end of the year to put it back in the range they were "supposed" to have it in.

Anyways, I think it's certainly an issue that bears discussing...keep it comin'

 

[aaj117]

an individual prof at a university may affect those one or two grades, but that doesn't affect your overall gpa all that much. grade inflation overall at a university is the thing that causes the most overall issue. The thing is, that when people make statements about "Grade inflation" at top schools like harvard princeton, yale, etc, they don't seem to take into account how competitive the admissions process is there; these schools only admitt people that work hard and have the ability to succeed there. If the best students go to these schools, then it shouldn't be surprising if they have slightly higher average gpas, should it? unfortunately, princeton wanted to end the rumor of grade inflation as early as possible, and at the beginning of my sophomore year they implimented a policy to eradicate grade inflation, limiting the number of As, Bs, etc that a department could give very severely. Unfortunately a lot of professors implemented this policy poorly and did it per class, and screwed a lot of students very frequently (i.e. me).

And i have heard from admissions committees from two schools that they do add something to your gpa if you go to certain schools, although it wasn't much, during medical school fairs.

 

[Jew Alcindor]

Let's just agree that everybody went to the hardest school and has the hardest major ever.

The bottom line is, you'd need at least a 3.9 (and probably close to a 4.0) from a lesser-known school, combined with a 37+ MCAT, to have any kind-of shot at Harvard or Hopkins or wherever (unless you're a URM, Olympian or whatever). That level of academic performance is difficult anywhere; one or two minor slip-ups and you're basically sunk. How many kids from St. Cloud State have enrolled at Harvard Med School in the past ten years? I'd be shocked if there was more than 1 or 2; the actual number is probably 0.

 

[nova1983]

But what about the 80% or so that graduate with honors? Doesn't that sounds kinda ridiculous to you? quote]


At my top 5 Ivy University, less than 30% received honors -- 5% highest honors (summa), 10% high honors (magna), and 15% honors. So nothing like the 80% you suggest....

 

[surfstarj]

Having gone to Harvard for undergrad (but certainly not ending up with a 4.0), I can attest that reports of grade inflation there are totally blown out of proportion. There's a good reason that there have been less than 10 students graduate with a 4.0 in the last 100 years.

Not to start a fight, but until a few years ago, Harvard had over 85% of students graduating with honors...If everyone's getting A/Bs isn't that the same as everyone getting Cs?

I know they, and some other schools notorious have taken efforts to cut down the grade inflation, but I'm not convinced it's nonexistent.
Food for thought.

 

[surfstarj]

(unless you're a URM, Olympian or whatever). That level of academic performance is difficult anywhere.

what's this about being an Olympian?

 

[imamom]

As a long-time high school educator, grade inflation has become rampant from the bottom up (or top down). However, when talking about individual courses, I think if you have 75% of the students scoring below 50% on an exam, then
1) something is wrong with the exam; and/or
2) something is wrong with the way the material was taught (the teacher)!

Fix those 2 problems and you have no need for grade inflation or curves. There are a lot of BAD educators out there from kindergarten through graduate schools! I call them paycheck collectors.

 

[digitlnoize]

Exactly. But does everyone think that the effect of taking a class with a bad teacher has more or less effect on GPA than grade inflation...

I mean, I guess the smarter students research their classes, so as to only take them with good teachers...eh?

 

[littlealex]

 

[Jew Alcindor]

what's this about being an Olympian?

I've heard it used several times as an example of the type of applicant whom will be given a lot of leeway in terms of stats.