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Grades needed in med school for surg....

Discussion in 'Clinical Rotations' started by GemPrincess, Mar 27, 2002.

  1. GemPrincess

    GemPrincess Senior Member

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    Hey guys, I have a question on behalf of a friend of mine who is an M1 at MCW. He wants to know what kind of grades you need to get in order to get into general surgery. He's freaking out because he might get a couple High Pass's this semester, instead of Honoring everything like he did last semester. Any 411 you guys have would be great. Thanks!!! :p
     
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  3. mpp

    mpp SDN Moderator
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    Well, since this year there were almost 70 General Surgery residency spots that went unfilled after the match, it is not the most competitive residency. Obviously a person should do the best they can in school but I don't think a couple of High Passes is going to ruin his career in any specialty.
     
  4. THE instiGATOR

    THE instiGATOR Cow Tipper

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by mpp:
    <strong>Well, since this year there were almost 70 General Surgery residency spots that went unfilled after the match, it is not the most competitive residency.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think this is rediculous (sorry, mmp). I was chatting with a peds surgeon, and he said that it's true that surgery residency slots have become less desirable. I asked if he thought that made it easier to get into surgery, and he said not really. He said residency directors will look at their applicants and only accept those who they deem qualified. If it turns out they don't have enough qualified applicants, they won't accept as many students as they have slots. So, slots going unfilled doesn't indicate a lack of competition.
     
  5. Whisker Barrel Cortex

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    GemPrincess,

    Tell your friend to relax. As a fourth year at MCW, I can tell you I know that at least two people in our class who matched into great surgery programs with only one or two honors in the preclinical years. I am sure there are more than that with average preclinical grades our of the 9 people in our class who chose g. surg.

    The competition for surgery is not what it used to be and matching somewhere good should not be a problem as long as he keeps up with the high passes in the preclinical years. Most program don't look at you grades from these two years very closely. Instead, they look at you third year grades and step I boards. He should study hard for the USMLE and strive for honors in Surgery and Medicine to improve his application. If he got all honors last semester, none of this should be a problem and he should find a great spot.

    Overall, average grades (high passes) and boards should get him into a good program.
     
  6. C U in MD school

    C U in MD school Senior Member

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    how about research???? i heard that in order to get into a surg. you need to do research. is this true?
     
  7. Whisker Barrel Cortex

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    Research isn't necessary to do G. Surg, but will probably help. Especially if you want to go to a high powered academic program like Wash U, MGH, Johns Hopkins, etc, research will be a big factor. However, for the vast majority of programs it will be a small factor and should not hinder your acceptance.
     
  8. mpp

    mpp SDN Moderator
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Bubba Swamp:
    <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by mpp:
    <strong>Well, since this year there were almost 70 General Surgery residency spots that went unfilled after the match, it is not the most competitive residency.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think this is rediculous (sorry, mmp). </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not offended or nothing but just wanted to clear up what I meant. I meant what you said Swampman. That it is not the MOST competitive residency, i.e, there are residencies that are MORE competitive (and it's mpp not mmp -- but I'm not offended by that either). Cheers...
     
  9. Freeeedom!

    Freeeedom! Senior Member

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    Your med school grades would need to be in the top 50% of the class...but honestly that is it. The competition for surgery has thinned (though it is still fierce in the top programs) and there are plenty of spots nationwide. It is by no means EASY, but it is not one of the top 5 competitive residencies.
     
  10. THE instiGATOR

    THE instiGATOR Cow Tipper

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by mpp:
    <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Bubba Swamp:
    <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by mpp:
    <strong>Well, since this year there were almost 70 General Surgery residency spots that went unfilled after the match, it is not the most competitive residency.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think this is rediculous (sorry, mmp). </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not offended or nothing but just wanted to clear up what I meant. I meant what you said Swampman. That it is not the MOST competitive residency, i.e, there are residencies that are MORE competitive (and it's mpp not mmp -- but I'm not offended by that either). Cheers...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />

    mumps, measles & ?????
     
  11. Elliebelly

    Elliebelly Junior Member

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    What about ENT? I know this is a competitive field, but what exactly do they mean by that? Are we talking all honors and research, some honors, extracurriculars? Also, how much of an advantage does an applicant have when applying to teh residency program at his/his own school?
     
  12. Whisker Barrel Cortex

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    ENT is a really competitive match. The average USMLE Step I score of those getting in is around 235, which is around the 85th percentile. Your grades should be awesome (many Honors). Because it is a small field, I have heard that getting to know the people in a program is important. So is research in ENT. All of the people I know who got in or are planning on ENT are doing research. This doesn't mean you can't get in without it, but I think a large proportion of people who do ENT have some research. I think you do have an edge at your own school if you know the staff well and do research with them.
     
  13. GemPrincess

    GemPrincess Senior Member

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    Thanks for your help, everyone! :) i will definetely pass along the messages. good luck to all of you!
     
  14. SurgeonS4

    SurgeonS4 Member

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    ????? whats he worried about ?????
     
  15. md03

    md03 Senior Member

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    The BEST thing to do is make an appointment with the residency director of your field of interest. Tell that person you are interested in the area and ask what it takes to match. This is the person who is most involved in choosing the residents, as so is the most reliable source of information. They are usually very receptive. The first year is an ideal time to do this, because then you have a good idea of what is realistically needed, and how to flesh out any deficinces. Also talk to 4th years at your school who just matched.

    Also be aware that surgery has many more prelimiary positions than categorical. Many of the unfilled slots were preliminary.
     
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  17. SurgeonS4

    SurgeonS4 Member

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    like i said earlier . . . what does he have to worry about . . . just perform on the step 1 . . . and bam. . .hes a surgeon
     
  18. Sabreman

    Sabreman Member

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    Hey don't sweat it. I have a friend who matched at Baylor Gen Surg despite being in the lower third of the class and scoring below the mean on Step 1 and 2. In fact, every student at my school (state school) going into General Surg matched at a top place (Baylor, Wash U, Vandy, UNC)despite only one of them being AOA.
     
  19. drsmith2002

    drsmith2002 Junior Member

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    Hey, I think we need to clarify some things. It is very true that to get a gen. surg residency spot is quite a bit easier than it used to be, however, to get a good spot is just as difficult as before. After talking to a few program directors during the match the consesus seemed to be that there were still a good number of highly qualified applicants fighting for the top residency positions (MGH,JHU, etc.), but that the lower 50% of applicants was not as deep as it used to be. The best advice for anyone going into any field is to work your little @ss of because as the match has taught many people...you just never know.
    Hope this helps.
     
  20. maccloud

    maccloud New Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Whisker Barrel Cortex:
    <strong>ENT is a really competitive match. The average USMLE Step I score of those getting in is around 235, which is around the 85th percentile. Your grades should be awesome (many Honors). Because it is a small field, I have heard that getting to know the people in a program is important. So is research in ENT. All of the people I know who got in or are planning on ENT are doing research. This doesn't mean you can't get in without it, but I think a large proportion of people who do ENT have some research. I think you do have an edge at your own school if you know the staff well and do research with them.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What are the most competitive residencies, and what is the "ratio" on their competitiveness? (I.e., the most meaningful ratio to me is: NUMBER OF SPOTS / NUMBER OF APPLICANTS). I tried to find this data in nrmp.org but their data is confusing, with the foreign and U.S., and then some specialties (like ENT) seem to have PGY-1 and PGY-2 spots and I'm not sure how to factor that in. Someone told me once the top 5 programs are derm, rads, ENT, combined plastics programs, and anesthesiology.

    Note that I am asking about top 5 or so most difficult ratios of spots to applicants. I'm not saying that these specialties are "better" than other specialties. It would be interesting to order all the boarded specialties in a list based on their difficulty-to-get-in ratio.
     
  21. Offshore

    Offshore Junior Member

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    I would say some of the most competitive residency spots are for transitonal or prelim years in highly desirable places like San Diego's Transitional Program. For categorical spots I believe Dermatology, Orthopaedics, Radiology, ENT, Combined Plastic Surgery, and Rad Onc are in the very top tier. That would be followed by ophthamology, emergency medicine, neurosurgery, and the top programs for internal med and anesthesiology. Neurosurg seems to be going down somewhat and anesthesia seems to be going up.
     

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