Graduate Medical Education funding in doubt

[dudelove]

I am not a dental student, but I am really disgusted with how things are funded. It seems that the GME stipends that were just started last year by the government are being reconsidered, and from what I can tell no longer funded for PG dental programs. It amazes me how the government will spend millions of dollars on garbage trucks in Iraq, but won't even help its own population with something as basic as free(well not really because we pay taxes) medical care for all. If anyone is interested on the bill go to google and do a search for "H.R. 1/S.1". Then look at the bill. I never knew how broken down our congress was until I started looking at all of the ridiculous ammendments to the bill. If anyone cares, please email or phone your local congressman and visit the ada.org website and send off an email to the ada as well. I am really upset myself because dentistry always seems to get the short end of the stick when it comes to education and educational grants.

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[GuttaPercha]

I totally agree with you. In response to the cut of GME funding, the dental school i'm at is now working us overtime. We have 2 hours per to see a patient as opposed to 2.5 or 3 hours. The school is out to make up the fund difference by seening more patients. And it really has an impact on the education we are getting in clinic. Technically in a 2 hour period, we only get about 30-40 mins of work, the rest of the time is waiting for instructors and getting paper work filled out. I feel like i am getting a substandard education. =(

 

[dudelove]

Well I hope that you vote come next election. The only way that we common people can excercise our rights is to vote the idiots who vote for these cuts out. It's really unfortunate how this country doles out billions and billions of dollars worth of aid(not including humanitarian) to all sorts of nations while 41 million of its own people have no health insurance. 17% of the population lives in poverty while we just spent 2 billion dollars building a new submarine. Amazing I tell you.

 

[aphistis]

Dudelove (wtf?), would that either A) the world is as simple as you seem to think it is, or B) everyone were as gifted and perceptive as you seem to think yourself. Life would be grand then.

For now, take the political crap to Everyone and keep it out of this forum.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by dudelove
Amazing I tell you.

Equally amazing is the number of posts I am garnishing, the majority of which come by responding to threads such as this one.

 

[Joshua Tree]

Originally posted by aphistis
Dudelove (wtf?), would that either A) the world is as simple as you seem to think it is, or B) everyone were as gifted and perceptive as you seem to think yourself. Life would be grand then.

For now, take the political crap to Everyone and keep it out of this forum.

Getting back to the matter at hand....if you guys can contact your local representative/congressmen then do it....it is not only the dentists that benefit from the education, it is the patients that we serve through these programs that will lose key access to care.

 

[dudelove]

It's always nice to know that we have a pleasant person joining the ranks of the dental profession. I hope that you give your patients as much thought as you give your comments. If you didn't know, the government actually funds over half of YOUR educational costs. This funding is slowly being cut. What do you think that means for you? I would concentrate on dental school young one and then think about what you just said years down the line if you apply to PG programs.

Originally posted by aphistis
Dudelove (wtf?), would that either A) the world is as simple as you seem to think it is, or B) everyone were as gifted and perceptive as you seem to think yourself. Life would be grand then.

For now, take the political crap to Everyone and keep it out of this forum.

 

[aphistis]

Originally posted by dudelove
It's always nice to know that we have a pleasant person joining the ranks of the dental profession. I hope that you give your patients as much thought as you give your comments. If you didn't know, the government actually funds over half of YOUR educational costs. This funding is slowly being cut. What do you think that means for you? I would concentrate on dental school young one and then think about what you just said years down the line if you apply to PG programs.

The government currently funds 32% of my education. If I apply to and enroll in a post-doc program, I'll pay for as much of my education as I'm required to, just as I've done before and continue to now. I expect to pay for my own education, "old one," and care little for your superior pretentions and sense of entitlement. If you're so deeply grieved by the possibility of having to pay for post-doc education that can double your earning potential, or even beyond, then there are plenty of retiring GP's out there looking for someone to take over their practice.

 

[gryffindor]

aphitis, This issue is a BIG deal in dentistry right now. It's not "political crap." You are only a first year student right now, it is a big hurt to us fourth years out there. For example - I would like to attend the AEGD at Univ. of Pennsylvania. Well, when I called them on Friday, they told me I'd have to pay to attend the AEGD. What??? That is ridiculous. Why is anyone going to want to attend an AEGD where they hafta pay if you can attend a GPR where they will pay you?

I'm not talking about specialty education here. An AEGD clinic services many people who might not otherwise seek dental care. And since they are losing their funding, where are these patients going to go? You're right, without GME funding, those who are graduating with debt up to their ears are not going to enter a program where they have to pay more tuition. They will take those retiring dentists up on their offers to take over the practice. This will leave a large portion of our population without access to dental health.

Specialty education is another matter all together. Yes, GME funding was nice for the few classes that got it. For example, Tufts U. started offering GME stipends to all of their specialty residents in 2002 (and tuition was waived for these students). Prior to that, students had to pay tuition to specialize at Tufts and received no stipend. Now, for the class starting post-grad in 2004 (my class), we have to go back to paying Tufts if we choose to specialize. While GME funding lasted, the positions could only be offered to US citizens (& possibly greencard holders, not sure), which is a key factor when it comes to post-grad programs at state schools. Without GME, the programs will take whoever pays them, which for many state schools, means that a foreign student whose country is footing the bill may be chosen over the lowly state resident.

Believe me, this GME thing definitely has me irate and has opened my eyes as to how cruels politics is. I'm gonna do my part to stay involved in organized dentistry and vote to try and prevent such atrocities in the future.

 

[ItsGavinC]

I know it is a big deal, but it isn't any different than the majority of specialty programs where you have to pay. Welcome to the world of those pursuing ortho, pros, peds, endo, perio, etc.

 

[gryffindor]

Gavin, it is different. What you are suggesting is paying for a fifth year to do general dentistry, like a fifth year of dental school. I know you are in support of this, but this isn't really an issue of mandatory fifth year or not. It's more about access to care and being treated like a resident (because you are a resident). With the slashing of GME funds, many programs will be in limbo about staying open or will have to reduce their patient load, denying dental care to those who can't afford private office treatments.

Dental school is 4 years long. If you choose to specialize, looks like you'll have to pay tuition for the majority of programs (minus OMS & some pedo). Fine. That's how it used to be and now we're going back to that. Some specialties are pretty cushy programs anyways (like you get all the school holidays and summers off), so them being paid as residents these past few years made it that much more cushy. (As compared to their GPR or OMS/Pedo counterparts where you don't get that 2 week break between Christmas & New Year's and no way are you gonna get the entire summer off).

But, if you're headed for general dentistry and you want to do a residency or "fifth year" - where are you more inclined to go? The program where they pay you (GPR) or the one where you pay them (AEGD programs losing their funding). Basically where you pay them, it's like a fifth year of dental school. You are paying to be a resident in general dentistry. I think very few seniors will choose this route, when the options right now include do a GPR instead, or go straight to private practice and use your money to pay for CE courses instead. For example, if you really want to learn all about implants, paying to attend an AEGD for 1 year is not necessarily going to make you as proficient as coughing up the money to go to a serious hands-on CE seminar on doing implants. At the AEGD, you have to do all phases of dentistry, you can't just do implants even though you paid to go there.

Right now, as first years, you are inclined to be very excited about learning anything dental to get your mind off the muscles of the arm or pathways in neuroanatomy. You're ready to commit to anything to get that DDS. But as a senior, I've had it. I've earned the DDS, the school is just seriously hazing me this year before actually giving me the diploma in May. There is no way I'd go through this for another year of general dentistry and lose more money in the process. GPR, get paid for it, serve the community, yes. AEGD, pay them for another year of "dental school," no.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Griffin,

Good post. I fully agree with you and was much too brief (and short) in my first post.

 

[bcDDS]

Although some say that GME funding for specialty training is dead, others say that the ultimate outcome is still uncertain. From what I understand, there was a group that was lobbying in DC as recently as late September. Does anybody know if a decision is expected, or should we simply assume that funding is out unless we miraculously hear otherwise?

 

[dudelove]

I believe that the majority of GME funding for graduate medical education is now gone. I was looking at NYU's dental webpage and in their PG section they state that the GME funding is gone and students must expect to pick up the tab.

 

[bucktooth]

It used to be that you could pursue a dental specialty and the school that accepted you would PAY YOU. Albeit that this has changed and that politicians continually screw us (the dental applicant/student) over with budget cuts which effect how we can pay for school. I'm just surprised that ASDA and the ADA haven't intervened on our behalf. Sucks huh? To pay them $$$$ and not have any representation.

My solution to all of these problems: Vote democrat, write to your representatives, lobby, lobby, lobby...and marry into money! LOL.

 

[gryffindor]

Originally posted by bucktooth
It used to be that you could pursue a dental specialty and the school that accepted you would PAY YOU. Albeit that this has changed and that politicians continually screw us (the dental applicant/student) over with budget cuts which effect how we can pay for school. I'm just surprised that ASDA and the ADA haven't intervened on our behalf. Sucks huh? To pay them $$$$ and not have any representation.

Do you have any idea what you're rambling about?

Don't even assume for a second that ASDA and the ADA didn't try to fight this. The ADA/ADEA/Dental school deans all had meetings with the key people in Congress to say that this is a ridiculous move for the government to make. They had absolutely no luck in convincing the CMS director, were able to get the senate on our side, but when the bill went to the committee where the house & senate get together, it fell apart. ASDA members wrote plenty of letters to our state reps & senators. ASDA/ADA are not paid services, they are only as strong as their members make them. If you thought ASDA wasn't doing an agressive enough job, no one would have stopped you from getting involved. (I'm assuming you're a dental student, judging from your "What's a sprue" post.)

As far as "It used to be that you could pursue a dental specialty and the school that accepted you would PAY YOU" - this can only be viewed as a fluke. It only happened at most schools for the specialty students who enrolled between 2001 & 2003. Prior to that, you had to pay tuition and now it looks like we are headed back to that Basically, those three classes lucked out and lessened their debt loads thanks to GME. It's not like it used to be this way for 50 years and now all of a sudden the system is falling apart.

 

[aphistis]

The whole entitlement mentality--that capable, skilled professionals should not only spend their time teaching you at the expense of lucrative private practice, but also pay you for the privilege of being permitted to teach you--is ridiculous. Most post-doc education is no different than any other education, and that means you're paying up-front for added value skills that will make you more in return. So a windfall existed for a few years and now it's going away; if you're going to reject post-doc education on that merit alone, you probably shouldn't be there in the first place.