Graduating D.O. with M.D. board Certification....

[Stversko]

i'm still in my 3rd undergrad year.
im about to begin med school applications.

My pre-med advisor brought up an interesting point....that some D.O. physicians can take an exam to become board certified as an M.D. upon completeing residency. I was just wondering how accurate is this data.


I was also told that in a D.O. school you are required to fulfill 800 hours of manipulation per year. Can someone please verify and elaborate on the process of manipulation.



thank you.

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[spicedmanna]

My pre-med advisor brought up an interesting point....that some D.O. physicians can take an exam to become board certified as an M.D. upon completeing residency. I was just wondering how accurate is this data.

That's false, if I am reading your quote correctly. A DO is a DO and a MD is an MD. Although they both perform the same role as a physician, the two degrees are distinct and there is no way to "convert" from a DO to an MD. As a DO you do have your own residencies and fellowships, but you are also eligible to match in the Allopathic residencies and can do Allopathic fellowships, if you wish.

 

[koennen]

My pre-med advisor brought up an interesting point....that some D.O. physicians can take an exam to become board certified as an M.D. upon completeing residency. I was just wondering how accurate is this data.

Get a new pre-med advisor.

 

[Lamont]

i dont know about the second one...but you can't just change your degree after your residency. you can train as a DO in med school and go to an MD residency (as a DO) but you will not pick up MD. You should be proud of either set of letters and quit worrying about it. As far as the 800 hour rule...no idea and I defer to everyone else. I imagine that you would get that fulfilled easily by attending any osteopathic school.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

Actually, you can pay some money to some Carribean program and after X number of hours of some sort of lecture, you are able to get an MD ... it's the Carib though, take it for what it's worth ...


What a DO can "do" is take the allopathic step exams to gain access into allopathic residencies ... after that, I assume they're board certified in whatever their specialty may be. However, you're still a DO.

 

[scpod]

...to become board certified as an M.D. upon completeing residency. I was just wondering how accurate is this data...

It is o% accurate. MD and DO degrees have nothing to do with board certification. It's a separate issue.

...I was also told that in a D.O. school you are required to fulfill 800 hours of manipulation per year...

We spend about 80 hours per year in lab-- not 800-- and about 40 hours in the classroom. While some people probably spend more, it won't be close to 800. That would be 20 hours per week for a 9-month long program.

 

[jp104]

Do you go to CUNY hunter? If so, just wondering who your orgo II prof is. Also, if your pre-med advisor is Ms. Wood-Hill....she's an incredible resource and very nice, but I don't think she's very familiar with DOs in general.

 

[koennen]

We spend about 80 hours per year in lab-- not 800-- and about 40 hours in the classroom. While some people probably spend more, it won't be close to 800. That would be 20 hours per week for a 9-month long program.

Yeah, that would really rub people the wrong way.

 

[group_theory]

i'm still in my 3rd undergrad year.
im about to begin med school applications.

GOOD LUCK in the long process!!

My pre-med advisor brought up an interesting point....that some D.O. physicians can take an exam to become board certified as an M.D. upon completeing residency. I was just wondering how accurate is this data.

Your degree will never change, it is the degree awarded to you by the school. The confusion with "board certified" comes because there are actually two usage for "boards" in the medical world ... the boards (USMLE/COMLEX) and THE Boards (american board of internal medicine, american osteopathic board of internal medicine, etc). The latter is the test you take at the end of your residency, and re-take every 7-10 years in order to be "board-certified".

As a DO, you have two options ... you can do an osteopathic (DO) residency or an allopathic (MD) ACGME residency. Generally if you do an osteopathic residency, you take the respective osteopathic board (for example, American Osteopathic Board of Surgery). If you do an ACGME residency, you can take their respective board (American Board of Surgery). However, eligibility to take these tests depends on the board itself, so an ACGME specialty board may deem someone who have completed an AOA residency eligible to take their boards.

So as a DO who completed an MD residency, you can be board-certified by the MD boards ... you just won't be an MD.

The vast majority of hospitals don't care if you are boarded by an MD or DO specialty board as long as you are boarded. There are a rare exception but the AOA have been successfully litigating with these hospitals within recent years. In the eyes of the government (and medicare/medicaid), it matters not.

I was also told that in a D.O. school you are required to fulfill 800 hours of manipulation per year. Can someone please verify and elaborate on the process of manipulation.

Actual time in OMM lab varies considerably between schools so if this is a concern for you (whether you want the most amount of time or the fewest amount of hours), research each individual schools to determine which one is a right fit for you.

 

[TzDoc]

It is o% accurate. MD and DO degrees have nothing to do with board certification. It's a separate issue.




We spend about 80 hours per year in lab-- not 800-- and about 40 hours in the classroom. While some people probably spend more, it won't be close to 800. That would be 20 hours per week for a 9-month long program.

scpod,
How do you like LECOM-Bradenton?

 

[JasonUD]

My pre-med advisor brought up an interesting point....that some D.O. physicians can take an exam to become board certified as an M.D. upon completeing residency. I was just wondering how accurate is this data.

This was like 30 years ago and only in California...you can't do this anymore. A DO and an MD degree open all the same doors for you with all the same benefits, but they are different degrees and cannot be merged in the USA.

 

[tkim]

Here are some clarifications:

1) If you graduate from a DO school, your title is "D.O." Doesn't matter if you continue onto a MD residency, you are called DO.

2) When you complete an MD residency, you are still called DO, but you are allowed to take the MD specialty board certification exam.

3) There are offshore schools that will issue an MD diploma to DO graduates for a fee and taking some classes. It's viewed dimly, as even with that diploma, you must still sign all legal papers pertaining to your practice - i.e., prescriptions, etc, as "DO". Makes no sense to pay $5000 for a piece of paper that's essentially useless.

3) In the 50's California DO's were offered a one-time deal where they paid $65 and were issued MD diplomas. This was done ostensibly to eliminate the DO title in California, and also to close the only DO school in California. Ironically, in the process of doing so, it has been successfully argued that DO was the equivalent of MD, otherwise why would they be granted MDs?

 

[scpod]

scpod,
How do you like LECOM-Bradenton?

It was a great choice for me...but, not everyone is cut out for PBL. I love it, though.

 

[CatsandCradles]

800 hours is incorrect - at least for my school.


However maybe your premed advisor is an older person? Because I know that at Kirksville, they would spend hours and hours drilling and performing OMT techniques - but all of that was a long time ago in like the 1950s. At least that's what some of the old clinicians at my school say.

I guess back then you could have devoted a lot of time to OMT since they probably didn't have to learn all the crazy things we do now adays. Nobody knew anything about C-myc, P53, RB, caspase 9 or 13 for the matter back then. And I highly doubt anyone knew anything about the DCML or anteroril lateral system back then - if they did then it probably would have been a very very primitive clinical understanding.

How about DIC and PTT, PT, or throbin time measurements? Heparin indunced thrombosis? - Well one older clinician at my school said they knew about heparin back in the 1950s, but realizing the patient had HIT was probably well beyond them at that time period.

If the patient had gram-negative bacteria causing sepis...well they didn't have a fighting chance back then...and they still don't have a good one today either

And keep in mind Watson and Crick have just started doing the structure of DNA. I think it was like 1958 or 59 when they stole Rosalin's x ray crystallography and put together their double helix.

No MRIs, CTs, PET, etc etc.

My dad an anesthesiologist, said medical school was a lot easier back in his day - but they spent more time in anatomy and histology lab than we do now a days.

Times change.

 

[MaximusD]

Med school "now-a-days" is more akin to paying a fortune to get kicked in the mommy-daddy button repeatedly.

 

[TzDoc]

It was a great choice for me...but, not everyone is cut out for PBL. I love it, though.

PBL?

 

[Dr.Inviz]

PBL?

Basically, independent learning and group discussions with mentor. I'm sure there's lecture snuck in there somewhere ... apparently.

 

[MaximusD]

PBL?

PBL = problem-based learning

 

[DeLaughterDO]

Med school "now-a-days" is more akin to paying a fortune to get kicked in the mommy-daddy button repeatedly.

 

[madamebovary]

yah you will graduate with a DO but you can do a MD residency
i dont know the residency should be your concern; not the title difference between MD and DO

 

[prefontaine]

What a wealth of misinformation on this thread!

~200' of OMM, not 800.

A DO can become AOA or ABMS certified.

An AOA program will need to be ACGME accredited to sit for the ABMS boards.

CA allowed DOs to receive an MD in the early '60s through early '70s.

A DO does not have to sit for the USMLEs to become a resident in an ACGME program.

UHSA charges ~$20,000 for the one year MD for DOs.

There are so many other errors posted here, you should find more reliable sources.

 

[supervic8]

Here are some clarifications:

3) There are offshore schools that will issue an MD diploma to DO graduates for a fee and taking some classes. It's viewed dimly, as even with that diploma, you must still sign all legal papers pertaining to your practice - i.e., prescriptions, etc, as "DO". Makes no sense to pay $5000 for a piece of paper that's essentially useless.[/QUOTE]

That wouldn't be too bad... except it's closer to 20k.

 

[scpod]

PBL?

PBL is a way of learning basic sciences through clinical cases. You meet in groups of 8 (with a facilitator) three times per week for two hours each. A medical case is presented and you determine the basic science issues you need to learn to understand the medical case. For instance, several times over two years you will have a "heart block" where you get cases that predominantly consist of heart problems. During this block, you study the biochem, physiology, immunology, micro, etc... of the cardiovascular and relating systems. You order ecg's, radiographs, ct's, labs...whatever it takes to figure out what is wrong during your PBL time and study the sciences behind it on your own time. It's a great way to learn if you are self-motivated because you really need to spend 8 to 10 hours every day in study. Since you are not in class and don't have lectures, however, some people don't spend the necessary time and don't do as well as they could.

It's very good from the aspect that you learn a lot of clinical medicine throughout your two years in addition to basic sciences. You already know what kinds of labs to order and how to interpret the results. You have lots of practice taking h&p's because, in addition to doing it during clinical exam class, you do it every day in PBL. Taking histories, doing soap notes and presenting cases becomes second nature to you because you do it every other day. Also, because you have so many cases, you get to revisit subjects over and over during your two years. If you had kidney physiology in your first semester of medical school, how much of it are you going to really remember two years later? But if you have a few kidney cases every single semester, then you get to review all of the kidney several different times. I think I've actually looked at more kidney histo slides in PBL than we ever did in our Anatomy/Histology course. Guess what? I recognize them pretty well now too. To me, that repetition is a much better way to learn.

However, it takes an individual who is willling to put the necessary time in on his or her own. Now the school does a lot to help you. They require you to meet with your advisor once a month, more so if you are doing poorly. They encourage you to try new methods of study and make sure that you have study partners who can help you through it. Still, it is up to you to put in the time if you are to succeed. It's great for me; it's just not the thing for everybody.

 

[MaximusD]

 

[Dr JPH]

Get a new pre-med advisor.

 

[DoctorMom78]

 

[TzDoc]

Spicedmanna, did you take that picture on your avatar?

 

[spicedmanna]

Spicedmanna, did you take that picture on your avatar?

Good heavens, no. It's a great picture, though. I did a search for lions and this is what came up. I was looking for something that matched my current mood and this picture fit the bill.