Isn't there a shortage a physicians? I also heard that primary care residencies in general are far from full and all aren't able to fill their spots even when you take FMG/IMG into account. Of course not many people want to do primary care but with more physicians that's what would happen right?
within 5 years, there will be more DOs and American MD grads than residency spots. ACGME IM has damn near filled before the scramble the last several years. it's only going to get worse.
Agree fully with your thought on oversaturation, but there have been about 200 new AOA residency spots opened just this year. thats a like a bit under a 10% increase in total residency spots.
at the rate they're making new schools, they'll have to have a 50-100% increase in spots in the next decade,
People forget that the AOA is actually getting funding from the fed to fund lots of residency spots each year (this year was especially large and next year should be quite large as well).
shenanigans. There has not been an increase in approved FUNDED spots since 1997. they're may be an increase in spots, but I do not believe that the funding is coming from the government.
Now they are not enough spots, nor are most of them in fancy residency programs that are highly sought after, though some are. But they are new and they are being added and people will fill them (unless its FM or internship, then who knows if they get filled). We also have no new teaching hospitals for these as far as I know. So yea. Thats a big thing. kudos on that one.
Yes, because people want to spend $250k+ to be forced into an AOA FP/IM/Pysch residency.
Where will all the new students train during their clinical years?
God, I hope the one in Beaver, Pa isn't going to be training at Beaver hospital.
Right now DO schools are sending their students cross-country for training. There are schools where it is possible to make it through all 4 years without any significant inpatient exposure. Will the new schools be generating new research activities and contributing to the academic medical community? Will these new schools be creating enough new residencies spots to support their graduates?
doubtful, you know that compared to medical school tuition, residencies don't line people pockets enough to make it worth it.
As for residencies - there are new MD schools opening, and existing MD schools have increased their class size. In 2007, there were 15206 US MD students applying for the NRMP match. In 2011, there were 16559. In 2007, there were 1652 US DO students applying for the NRMP match. In 2011, there were 2178. In 2007, there were 2694 US IMG applying for the NRMP match, in 2011 there were 3769.
In 2007, there were a total of 34975 applicants for the NRMP match. In 2011, there were 37735.
2015 is going to be a fun year, I'm glad I finished up before this crap started.
I think there needs to be a stat check here because people are missing an important detail.
no, you're missing the big picture.
~47% of DOs match (not scramble for this stat) to AOA residency. The AOA could accomodate (pulling this number from my ass. but I know the stats will back me up because I've done the actual calculation before) 70% of all the graduate, but ~20% of all its residencies go unfilled each year just because of lack of interest for whatever reason. That's not my main point, but it does add more depth to what I'm going to point out that there is a large number of AOA residencies completely unfilled each year (I wont discuss their worth as it likely runs the entire spectrum from crappy to 'omg how did that not get filled?')
Now here is the fact sheet. Its that if every MD that graduated in 2010 from a US school was matched before any other student (DO, USIMG, FMG, etc). Every single one was given a spot, this includes ones that didnt get a spot in reality or applied elsewhere in the reality of 2010.... there would still be ~6,500 ACGME residency spots left and a couple hundred (dont know the number) more in the military and SF match. There are only about 2,000 DO's who apply ACGME. We could apply 3x over and still have room left over in the ACGME residency list.
There are roughly 23000 spots each year for residents, there ~3300 DO grads a year (about to be over 4000 with all these schools) right now there are 16,500 MD grads a year, by 2015 there will be ~1800, by 2017 they want 22000. so withing 5-7 years there will be 26000 graduating from american medical schools with only 23000 residency spots? I'm glad I won't have to go through match to deal with the cluster-**** that's going to be. They already have 35,000 applicants each year for the match when you factor in the 2000 american grads who are re-entering the match, IMG, FMGs, 5-th pathway and canadians.
Let's use IM as an example, you'll hear the AOA crow about how much they've expanded they're IM numbers in the last 3 years, this isn't necessarily a good thing. for the past 3-5 years ACGME Im has had less than 100 open seats after the match to scramble into, and those tend to fill right away, and they have 5,065 seats, so with increasing AOA grads, well of d'uh they'll have more and more match into the AOA spots, for 2010, there were 450 IM spots, 305 of those filled, so between ACGME and DO, there were ~150 unfilled IM spots, how do you think that will play out in the next few years as the numbers of grads continues to increase and AOA continues the snails pace increase in spots? Expect a lot of mediocre DO grads to be unable to get a residency as no one in their right mind is going to say that the well qualified FMG and IMGs should be barred from entering our match, especially if they want to stay in the states after training.
nope. they're not fellowships. They're full cardiology/immunology/pulmonology/whatever residencies with a built in IM curriculum at the start. Its a good thing. Most people prefer it built in anyway.
1) built in fellowships is not standard for IM, 2) after seeing many different residencies out there, we also need to be increasing the quality of the residencies spots, not just the quantitity, 3) I'll be honest that in my opinion, when I was looking at pulm-cc fellowships, half of the hospitals had no buisness having a fellowship due to lack of volume, frequently shipping out their sicker pts to university centers, etc, etc.
Still. I'd only kick out the prelims. Internships/transitionals (in the ACGME world) are actually pretty desired since they do set you up for second year residency and they get filled. Not quite the case with AOA. Plus my stats don't count the 2nd year residency options of the ACGME, so I had better count the internships (not sure if it counts 2nd year options for the AOA, but I dont think it does either). Prelims are total nonsense though and shouldnt be counted. But I am not going back and doing the research to figure out how that changes the numbers.
