Hi here , I'm an American IMG trying to broaden my horizons on where in the states would be a good place to apply for a psychiatry residency . I've been told there are great programs in California but besides that I have no clue about any other place. Any tiny little bit of information would be greatly appreciated !!
Great places in the States for applying a psych residency ?
- Thread starter TedMed14
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Honestly unless you had some crazy life experience putting you into the IMG world after getting your PhD at Harvard, you are going to want to apply broadly across the whole country to have a chance of matching. There are many very good programs in less desirable areas that would be good targets to shoot for but it's pretty hard to summarize the entire psych training field across the country. Cali is mostly a pipe dream for many applicants so don't get hung up on that.
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IMG’s are not very competitive in psych. Cali is the most competitive state. Even in TX, you’d want to look at places like Texas Tech El Paso. Apply broadly at less competitive places. We are all psychiatrists in the end, so matching is more important than your temporary training location.
Where you went as an IMG makes a big difference. Carribean or a well known school? Plenty of excellent programs, including top 10-20 programs, are willing to give IMGs a look especially if you are more research-oriented and have something to set you apart. And so while you should definitely apply broadly, I wouldn't hold up hope of making it into an excellent program. On the flip side, Cal programs really like to turn their nose up, even on AMGs.
San Jose Kaiser, Oakland Kaiser, Riverside County, Ventura County, Santa Barbara, Charles Drew.... California has, or is opening more programs in the last two to three years than most states have in total. At some point, we are going to have to stop saying that California is the most competitive. Their taxes are making everyone leave in droves. Heck, even the Rose Bowl moved to Texas this year.
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This last part has nothing to do with taxes and everything to do with pandemic restrictions.
Sure, but Space X, Toyota, and all kinds of companies are in Texas due to California taxes. Besides, one could postulate a correlation between taxes and pandemic restrictions. California had a governor who openly stated he never met a tax he didn't like. So "don't mess with Texas" and the golden state are somewhat polar opposites.
I really appreciate the honesty hahahaha , but sadly I'm just some dude that really enjoys his career, thanks!
thanks for the info ! I just have no idea about psych in the states so I want some info that can point me somewhere
yeah my relatives in Texas say the same, everybody's moving from cali to Texas. Thanks for the info tho, will look it up !
Graduated in Latin University of Panama , my country has good relationship with the states so having us passport + that is a plus I guess
I keep hearing people say this but knowing several physicians that live in Nor Cal and So Cal and having just looked for jobs/homes there for extended family and personally, I just do not see this playing out at all. Jobs are still really competitive compared to basically everywhere else in the country, particularly in the most desirable areas of So Cal (aka anything near the ocean from Santa Monica down to San Diego). Housing prices remain extreme compared to not only most of the country but in some areas compared to flagship cities of the world. They actually have some fairly physician friendly setups for malpractice (although not compared to Texas) and property tax as a percent of house price is normal to low.
Certainly there's been big expansions in their training programs but try looking for a position residency or as an attending in any Texas city and then in LA/SD and it will be pretty clear the differences in desirability.
The point is not that california programs are equally competitive, but by virtue of being in a particular location are much more competitive than they would otherwise be (and much more competitive than much better programs in other parts of the country). Several of the california programs also are quite cushy in terms of the schedule (requiring little to no call) which may further increase competitiveness. There also seem to be a large number of students from certain california med schools (e.g. UCLA, UCSF, UCD, Loma Linda) applying to psychiatry, many of whom want to stay in california. As a result many of the smaller california programs are able to attract a calibre of applicants that would be impossible if the programs were located elsewhere. Psychiatrists still continue to congregate at the coasts, and despite taxes and high COL, the pay and lifestyle are still seen as attractive.
As a result, it is hard for IMGs to match into california psych residencies. However the most exceptional IMGs (i.e. not americans who went off-shore) can still match at top california programs if they have sufficient connections and publications, but it is very difficult.
It's still about 20% of psych residency spots that go to IMGs (down from 40% at one point), and many IMGs are still ranked more highly than US students who go unmatched. It is important to have high board scores as possible, get ECFMG certified, complete step 3 (for those needing an H1 visa, not relevant for the OP), get 8 weeks worth of psych electives at institutions with psych residency programs in the US while still a medical student (observerships and externships upon graduation carry much less weight), obtain 2-3 strong LoRs from said electives, and demonstrate a strong commitment to a career in psychiatry. IMGs wanting to match at academic programs and have an academic career will need to have significant number of publications (ideally first author in high impact factor journals), presentations at national and international meetings, and consider a postdoc at an institution of interest (this is one of the only ways of getting into the most competitive programs for IMGs - work with an influential PI who will get you into that residency program).
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