Gunner Reasoning

[thezero]

Hey I am an incomming MS1. I hear a lot of people refering to gunners in a negative light. I just wanted to know if gunners usually get the more competitive residencies or is everyone pretty much capable of securing these residencies if they have the appropriate board scores? How much do grades, especially from the first two years count in securing residency? Is it worth being a gunner to achieve the specialty you want or can you enjoy a well rounded medical school experience and still be able to match in Orthopedics, urology, or just any residency of your choosing?

I hope to hear from the residents or however is knowledgeable on this subject.

Thanx,

0

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[texdrake]

Gunners are no fun, no fun at all. Live life thats my motto. You only get one shot, try not to make Medical school miserable by over doing it.

My father new a guy who was a gunner's gunner if you know what I mean. This guy was driven, busted his butt all his life so he could retire early and fairly wealthy at age 55. Even in fairly good health. He died on a golf course on the 16th hole at age 57. Don't save your best years for the last.

On the other hand I hang out with a few gunners and they are always helpful on the study front. I guess that makes me a loader or an artilary assistant or something.

 

[Moskeeto]

Originally posted by texdrake
My father new a guy who was a gunner's gunner if you know what I mean. This guy was driven, busted his butt all his life so he could retire early and fairly wealthy at age 55. Even in fairly good health. He died on a golf course on the 16th hole at age 57. Don't save your best years for the last.

this should be the point of the day.

 

[texdrake]

Thanks Moskeeto....actually i believe it should be the point of every day. Live life my friend, live life.

 

[Careofme]

I'm just curious...I think I've known gunners and even singled them out but what specifically characterizes a gunner? What qualities must he/she/it contain?

 

[double elle]

I think of a gunner as being someone who MUST do better than anyone else at all costs. There are individuals in my class who lie and say they don't have old exams, or notes, or whatever...when, in fact, they do and simply won't share them. To me - that is stupid. I feel that we are all on the same team here. I know I share information with all my classmates. I don't care how well or poorly anyone else does.

However, as for competitive people....we have those, too. BUT, the difference is that some people only compete with themselves and really don't worry about 'beating out' anyone else. To me, that is the difference between being competitive and being a gunner.

 

[Careofme]

Ahh...now I can see the difference.

Thanks!

 

[maxheadroom]

10% of the class are gunners. They will do everything that they can to position themselves as the best in the class. They are rarely in the top 10% of the class.

80% of the class are competitive, to some degree. These are the people who will make sure that they go to parties, bars, and social events where they will be seen. They do this to distinguish themselves from the gunners who are studying at the library on Friday night. What the competitive people won't tell you is that they studied all Friday afternoon in order to justify a night on the town.

10% of the class are lazy bastards. They try to sponge off of the people who go to lecture, take notes, and study hard. Half of the lazy bastards will fail or decide that med school isn't for them. The other half will decide that studying might be worthwhile.

 

[Tazmaniac]

I wish I had a pie chart:


4% - Loud gunners. Common symptoms include sitting in the front row, asking multiple questions in class, asking everyone what they got on their tests. Usually will get burned in 3rd year, when they attempt to blackmail classmates.

3% - Covert gunners, Type I. Covert gunners typically check out library books so that no one else can read it, as well as decomission certain handouts. Type Is are differentiated from Type IIs in their uncanny ability to be socially seen at parties, to mask their true identity.

3% - Covert gunners, Type II. These people are rarely seen outside medical school.

8% - Whiners. These students sit in the 4th-7th rows of lecture rows and loudly whisper and complain during the lecture itself, and then complain to fellow students and deans about the unfairness of a test.

48% - Normal people. Symptoms include occasional moments of ambitious studying, infrequent side effect of slacking off.

12% - Paradoxical geniuses. These people are socially active and do very little studying except for cramming. Signs include sparse attendance, paradoxically high test scores for amount of effort placed.

12% - Paradoxical workers. Opposite of paradoxical genius: extremely hard workers who receive paradoxically low scores. They are often redeemed in 3rd and 4th years when hard work pays off.

8% - Obnoxious brats. 4:1 male to female ratio. Brats sit in the back row and work pathetically hard to appear like a cool slacker and popular. Will run for class president at least once. Differential diagnosis includes either paradoxical geniuses or covert gunners (Type I).

2% - Ghosts. These people have families or something better than medical school and are always absent. Signs include receiving many "Who?"'s when name is called on graduation.

-Todd MSIV

 

[Asher]

Several of my classmates work hard and are at the top of the class but they aren't gunners. They want other people to do well and if they see a classmate struggling with something will help them out. If a cool case comes up, they let other students know about it too. If they are complimented on the work of another student, they let it be known that it was the other student who worked hard.

At my school, the gunners are the ones who aren't just concerned with doing well but making sure others do poorly. In the third year, they are the ones who will try to present information on your patient to the attendings or residents before you do. They will pass the floor scutwork off on fellow students so that they can scrub in a good case. They won't let anyone else answer a question on rounds going so far as to jump in when other students are specifically called upon. They will isolate themselves from fellow M3s and try to buddy up with the residents. They will lie to residents and attendings about other students being slackers or (the worst case) about having substance abuse/other problems.

My residents if they weren't gunners themselves see through this and don't really care for the gunners. Gunners who come out of the closet so to speak in the third year will lose a lot of the friendships they made during the basic science years.

 

[Jadeite]

I'd like to apply for the position of Paradoxical Genius, thanks.

Though I get the feeling most of us played the paradoxical genius in undergrad, med school isn't likely to be a repeat performance.... Sigh!

Jade~
Incoming MSI, CWRU

 

[Entei]

Could it be that there is a higher percentage of Type I Covert Gunner in the class? They are the "black ops" of gunners, afterall. Who knows how many there might be?

 

[oompaloompa]

Originally posted by Jadeite
I'd like to apply for the position of Paradoxical Genius, thanks.

Though I get the feeling most of us played the paradoxical genius in undergrad, med school isn't likely to be a repeat performance.... Sigh!

Jade~
Incoming MSI, CWRU

I am also an incoming in your position and I think you've actually nailed down my greatest fear! May God have mercy....on all of us!

 

[vladtaltos]

Originally posted by Tazmaniac
I wish I had a pie chart:


4% - Loud gunners. Common symptoms include sitting in the front row, asking multiple questions in class, asking everyone what they got on their tests. Usually will get burned in 3rd year, when they attempt to blackmail classmates.

3% - Covert gunners, Type I. Covert gunners typically check out library books so that no one else can read it, as well as decomission certain handouts. Type Is are differentiated from Type IIs in their uncanny ability to be socially seen at parties, to mask their true identity.

3% - Covert gunners, Type II. These people are rarely seen outside medical school.

8% - Whiners. These students sit in the 4th-7th rows of lecture rows and loudly whisper and complain during the lecture itself, and then complain to fellow students and deans about the unfairness of a test.

48% - Normal people. Symptoms include occasional moments of ambitious studying, infrequent side effect of slacking off.

12% - Paradoxical geniuses. These people are socially active and do very little studying except for cramming. Signs include sparse attendance, paradoxically high test scores for amount of effort placed.

12% - Paradoxical workers. Opposite of paradoxical genius: extremely hard workers who receive paradoxically low scores. They are often redeemed in 3rd and 4th years when hard work pays off.

8% - Obnoxious brats. 4:1 male to female ratio. Brats sit in the back row and work pathetically hard to appear like a cool slacker and popular. Will run for class president at least once. Differential diagnosis includes either paradoxical geniuses or covert gunners (Type I).

2% - Ghosts. These people have families or something better than medical school and are always absent. Signs include receiving many "Who?"'s when name is called on graduation.

-Todd MSIV

Great post..great post. But as an incoming student, I'm finding it hard to take in that some students actually lie and do other malicious stuff just to get ahead..couldn't they get in serious trouble for that?

 

[md03]

How would those students get in trouble? There is no one policing you in med school. Some schools have honor codes for exams, but that doesn't stop cheating (if caught, however, there are penalites)

Gunners are obnoxious people who place grades above all else. They will study ahead, hog the dissection in the gross lab, and make themselves visible by asking questions designed to make them appear smart. Sometimes they lie (pretending not to have old tests, for example, when they really do. How would you police that?) They are unwilling to help others but will suddenly rally and lead the charge on exam feedback if they are uhappy with their grade. Sometimes they check out books to keep the books from others (only penalty is a small late return fee). The behaviour on the wards (presenting other student's pts, etc) is risker for the gunner because it could affect the evaluation. However, generally you don't lose too much on an evaluation for being eager. The evaluation will depend partly on how much the resident's input computes into the grade, and how much effort the resident is willing to put into the evaluation. Gunners usually rein it in a bit in front of an attending. Realize that evaluating others is a difficult task and people are usually relcuctant to say anything negative, so a gunner may not be penalized much.

There are other people who care about their grades, maybe a lot and who study very hard. If they don't demonstrate malicious behaviour, these people are not gunners. These people will try to help their friends do well too, and will help anybody who askes them for help. They may even sign up to tutor underclassmen.

 

[Ramoray]

I 2nd that comment above, you can get gunner like grades without being a cock about it. nothing gets to one of those typical dumb**** gunners than to watch their faces when they see they got beaten on a test or didnt do the best in the class. you can study hard, be a stand up person and get the highest grades in your class and show up the gunners.. be wel liked and youll be much better off. its amazing even the number of gunners in undergrad that would kill themselves over grades, wehre personally i had the extreme laid back attitude about grades and it rubbed off on friends and still outdid any of the gunner crew. just be nice, helpful and study your ass off, no need to be a gunner is my point.

 

[thezero]

This is very good insight.

Thanks

 

[JM.]

Originally posted by Tazmaniac
I wish I had a pie chart:


4% - Loud gunners. Common symptoms include sitting in the front row, asking multiple questions in class, asking everyone what they got on their tests. Usually will get burned in 3rd year, when they attempt to blackmail classmates.

3% - Covert gunners, Type I. Covert gunners typically check out library books so that no one else can read it, as well as decomission certain handouts. Type Is are differentiated from Type IIs in their uncanny ability to be socially seen at parties, to mask their true identity.

3% - Covert gunners, Type II. These people are rarely seen outside medical school.

8% - Whiners. These students sit in the 4th-7th rows of lecture rows and loudly whisper and complain during the lecture itself, and then complain to fellow students and deans about the unfairness of a test.

48% - Normal people. Symptoms include occasional moments of ambitious studying, infrequent side effect of slacking off.

12% - Paradoxical geniuses. These people are socially active and do very little studying except for cramming. Signs include sparse attendance, paradoxically high test scores for amount of effort placed.

12% - Paradoxical workers. Opposite of paradoxical genius: extremely hard workers who receive paradoxically low scores. They are often redeemed in 3rd and 4th years when hard work pays off.

8% - Obnoxious brats. 4:1 male to female ratio. Brats sit in the back row and work pathetically hard to appear like a cool slacker and popular. Will run for class president at least once. Differential diagnosis includes either paradoxical geniuses or covert gunners (Type I).

2% - Ghosts. These people have families or something better than medical school and are always absent. Signs include receiving many "Who?"'s when name is called on graduation.

-Todd MSIV

Oh - that was too funny.

 

[Pre-Dent-David]

A tribute!

 

[KyGrlDr2B]

Originally posted by Pre-Dent-David
A tribute!

Awesome!!

 

[OrthoFixation]

Fantastic recap Taz...Thanks, I needed a laugh

 

[chef]

Originally posted by Tazmaniac
I wish I had a pie chart:


4% - Loud gunners. Common symptoms include sitting in the front row, asking multiple questions in class, asking everyone what they got on their tests. Usually will get burned in 3rd year, when they attempt to blackmail classmates.

3% - Covert gunners, Type I. Covert gunners typically check out library books so that no one else can read it, as well as decomission certain handouts. Type Is are differentiated from Type IIs in their uncanny ability to be socially seen at parties, to mask their true identity.

3% - Covert gunners, Type II. These people are rarely seen outside medical school.

8% - Whiners. These students sit in the 4th-7th rows of lecture rows and loudly whisper and complain during the lecture itself, and then complain to fellow students and deans about the unfairness of a test.

48% - Normal people. Symptoms include occasional moments of ambitious studying, infrequent side effect of slacking off.

12% - Paradoxical geniuses. These people are socially active and do very little studying except for cramming. Signs include sparse attendance, paradoxically high test scores for amount of effort placed.

12% - Paradoxical workers. Opposite of paradoxical genius: extremely hard workers who receive paradoxically low scores. They are often redeemed in 3rd and 4th years when hard work pays off.

8% - Obnoxious brats. 4:1 male to female ratio. Brats sit in the back row and work pathetically hard to appear like a cool slacker and popular. Will run for class president at least once. Differential diagnosis includes either paradoxical geniuses or covert gunners (Type I).

2% - Ghosts. These people have families or something better than medical school and are always absent. Signs include receiving many "Who?"'s when name is called on graduation.

-Todd MSIV

ROFLMAO

one of teh best posts on sdn ever.. lol



in class above mine, there was 1 dude who got into junior aoa.. when his name was posted every1 was like "who the f#% is this??" b/c they hadn't seen him evar in classes or anything - it turns out this dude instead memorized all transcribed lecture notes, textbooks, and read harrison's IM, robbins path, along w/ others cover to cover 10 times

 

[doctor7]

Originally posted by Tazmaniac
I wish I had a pie chart:

12% - Paradoxical geniuses. These people are socially active and do very little studying except for cramming. Signs include sparse attendance, paradoxically high test scores for amount of effort placed.

-Todd MSIV

and don't forget MSP...i just wanted to give Todd his props for being a legendary tutor; his tutorial sessions (called MSP at USC med) resulted in high exam scores for me on numerous occasions (despite slaking off and ditching classes for most of medical school)