Hands-On Clinical Experiance

[kypdurron5]

Well, I recently applied to several medical schools and I was turned down by all of them. My MCAT score was a 27, and I would have liked that to be higher. Still, my GPA is a 3.94 and I have had a very diverse and challenging educational background. For the main school I was looking at the rejection letter only provided the suggestion to “seek hands-on experience in a clinical setting.” I realize I should have had this going in, but I thought medical schools would understand that I was working to pay for my undergraduate education during those years. Still, I now have no choice but to try and fulfill this requirement. That is where my problem lies; I simply don’t know any doctors! I tried volunteering at a local hospital but I ended up picking up dirty laundry, handing out ice, and stocking shelves. At this point I feel the best option would be for me to shadow a doctor, only again, I don’t know any. Can ANYONE provide me with some suggestions as to what to do based upon your own experiances? I know some pre-med students have even talked about randomly calling offices from a phonebook, but I’m really not comfortable doing that (but then again times are getting desperate here!). I’ve also talked to three pre-med advisers, none of whom have any direct local contacts for such endeavors. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Sean

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[WingsBelieve84]

I think the medical schools want you to do this NOT to learn how to take blood pressures, temps, etc, but to immerse yourself in a real medical environment. You will learn those other things in medical school anyways.
But what's the daily life of a doctor like? What do you not realize when you are simply a patient? You know, behind the scenes things.

So, what to do? Volunteering is definitely an option, and I also did some of that crappy stuffy like picking up laundry, but if you are persistent enough you can get something better.

Shadow a doctor! Doctors often times love teaching and so they will gladly let you shadow. I've had several great shadowing experiences, you just have to ask. For example, one doctor, I simply approached him at the hospital, told him who I am, and asked to shadow. He said sure.

And worst comes to worst, don't be afraid to just contact those random docs! If you're lucky, one might be looking for a medical assistant- you can take patient histories, temps, pulse, blood pressures...

 

[karirunner]

If you live in or near a big city, try volunteering at the county hospital in the Emergency Room. You will get a lot of hands on experience-taking temps and blood pressures, listening to cases being discussed, transporting patients, etc. Public hospitals are usually more willing to let volunteers do stuff than private ones.

 

[xraygray]

i was pretty lucky in that my undergraduate school had an internship program for shadowing doctors so i can't really help you there. if you have a family doctor ask he/she for some help. if not, get one, establish a relationship and then ask for help. most doctors seem pretty willing to help out future doctors.

i also did not get in on my first go round and i also felt it was patially due to minimal clinical experience. what i did: volunteered at a local free medical clinic (did a lot of same kind of boring stuff, but also filled prescriptions and helped out with showing patients around, very good experience and good to talk about in interviews; this would also be a good place to meet some doctors and you know that they aren't dinguses because they are volunteering their free time to help out with these clinics)

got a job in the radiology department of a big hospital transporting patients to/from treatments/tests. lots of patient interaction and became familiar with interworkings of a hospital. pay was very low, but better than nothing.

by the way, mcat scores similar (28) and GPA was lower (3.6) and ive had 4 (out of 5) interviews and 1 acceptance so far. hope that helps.

 

[LizzyM]

Every community has someplace that people can go for STD testing (prenatal & well baby care for the indigent are other options in some communities). Sometimes this is a community clinic or public health facility, sometimes it is a clinic within a hospital. Find out where those places are in your community. Offer your services doing whatever needs to be done there. Let everyone working there (docs, nurses, etc) know that you are happy to do whatever needs to be done (stocking shelves, moving paper) but that you are pre-med and would love to have the opportunity to watch procedures, sit in on patient interviews (with the patient's permission), etc. in addition to your assigned tasks. Someone will take you under their wing and show you around. From there you may meet someone who will be willing to show you around the inpatient (hospital) setting as well.

Being a hospice volunteer, if there is such a service in your community, is another way to get "up close" with patients. Hospice volunteers make friendly visits or provide respite care so that the usual care provider can get away for an hour.

 

[psipsina]

I think you really need to just suck it up and make the random calls. Find a hospital and find a department you think you may be interested in and call or e-mail the department head and explain that you are interested in shadowing one of the docs. They'll understand, they've been thru the process too and unterstand that med schools expect this type of experience. If you really want to be a doc and go to med school, an uncomfortable phone call shouldn't be too much for you to overcome. And trust me I totally understand, I hate making phone calls to random people and it makes me sooo nervous.

 

[RxnMan]

I would go for a job that involves clinical duties in additon to everything else - a clinical research job where you take pt histories and then enter their data, for example. Most docs will also let you shadow them from time to time.

Also try calling local teaching hospitals. Every doc there is also a teacher.

You should also look at that MCAT. To be competitive, you need tens in everything.

Here's a suggestion. Get a job like the one above or what others have written. Then use you evenings to really prepare for the MCAT. Use the $$$ you get from the job to take a test prep course. Then really blast the test. You'll have a much better response from those schools.

 

[gary5]

I typed a longer reply and got an SDN error, so here's a shorter version:

1) Definitely get that volunteer experience. Call local hospitals, ask for the volunteer department, meet with them, and ask for clinical exposure, maybe E.R. or peds. When you're there, be assertive and ask residents / attendings if you can follow them around. They'll probably let you do some things. If not, yes, it can be boring, but it's a requirement. Adcoms want to know that you know what a doctor's day is like. Do 4 hrs/wk minimum.

2) 27 is a borderline score, so retake the MCAT and be sure to get 30+. If you need to study 1-4 hrs/night for a year, then do it. Do whatever it takes.

3) If you're done with school, then spend the year doing clinical research part-time (ask to be involved in a project that will be published) and spend the rest of your time on #2.
OR
Enter a one-year post-bacc program, retake the MCAT, and reapply.

Hope this helps...

 

[GuzzyRon]

For liability/litigation reasons, I think most hospitals and doctors offices will not let you do much without some kind of training. For me, I forked out $300 to take a 4-week CNA (certified nursing assistance) course and got a license. Now I work at Emory University Hospital transcribing physicians' orders, monitoring patients' vital signs, helping with emergencies, preping patients for surgery, collecting specimen, maintaining patients' charts, doing CPR, catheter care, etc - and that's pretty remarkable for just a 4-week training.

 

[kypdurron5]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I must say I'm surprised to see so many mention retaking the MCAT. I will admit I was initially disappointed because I was shooting for at least a 30, but I figured a 27 should be good enough to get me in, at least to the main state school which has a median around 27-28. The next part might come as a bit of a shock so let me explain first. When choosing which schools to apply to, the selection was so large I decided to select every school I was remotely interested in, and then make my final selection by a process of elimination. Eventually I got to the point where I simply couldn't justify eliminating any more schools and I eventually applied to.....27. Yes, I know, overkill. Still, I only got one interview and was rejected from that and all others. Most disappointing is that the one interview was to the large state school, the school I had the best chance of being accepted to. So would you guys imagine I didn't get more interviews due to the MCAT score, or perhaps the lack of experience (which I DID mention in my PS)? Since my GPA is almost perfect, I suppose the only other consideration would be undergraduate institution; would you imagine that coming from a smaller campus of a state university is a huge hindrance to getting into "good" public or private medical schools?

As to the MCAT, I'm not opposed to retaking it, but what do you guys think about the risk vs. reward. I mean, if I can get in somewhere with a 27 (and some clinical experience >) should I really risk retaking it and getting a lower score? I will admit I could have studied more, but nonetheless I did study quite a bit in the evenings all summer long using KAPLAN materials/tests (the summer ending in August when I took it). I would point out that I used a book that was 2 or 3 years old, but then again it was mainly a review of general bio/phys/chem etc. Still, if I retake it I would get up-to-date materials just to make sure I'm not missing anything. Finally, there is the question of timing. If I take the April test I only have about 2 months from today to study and I'm also competing with the courses I'm taking now, and also with trying to get clinical experience. If I wait until August I have a lot more time to study, but it takes them so long to post the scores I'll have to apply again before I even know what I got. What would you guys suggest?

Thanks so much for all your suggestions, I can’t wait to start my medical education, it’s just that getting there is turning out to be a smidgeon more complicated than I originally anticipated >). I am willing to do whatever it takes; I just need to find out what exactly that is!

 

[LizzyM]

When I see a gpa >3.9 and a MCAT of 27, I figure that there is a disconnect. It could be that the applicant had a bad day (should retake the MCAT), is not a good test taker (shoudl take a course to learn test taking strategies as these skills are useful in passing the boards), or the MCAT is accurate but that the gpa is inflated because 1) student was at the top in a school that was not challenging (how hard is it to get into the school? what is the average ACT/SAT of those who matriculate) or 2) that the school has extreme grade inflation, or 3) that the student took only the easiest courses and withdrew from classes that were more difficult (I check the transcript).

A high gpa with no clinical experience points toward a student who put a high value on grades and worked hard in that area but who did not balance it with activities out of the classroom that would indicate 1) some exploration of possible career paths or 2) service to the community.

So get yourself some clinical experience and score better on the MCAT. If you had only 1 interview out of 27 applications, it was something on paper that gave the admissions offices pause.

 

[linuxizer]

When I see a gpa >3.9 and a MCAT of 27, I figure that there is a disconnect. So get yourself some clinical experience and score better on the MCAT. If you had only 1 interview out of 27 applications, it was something on paper that gave the admissions offices pause.

Still, my GPA is a 3.94 and I have had a very diverse and challenging educational background.

My take is basically the same as Lizzy's: Get up your MCATs to match your GPA, and they will believe your GPA.
To put it in perspective, at a "typical" medical school, your stats might be an SD or two over on GPA and an SD or two lower on MCATs. This "disconnect" is an uncommon enough situation* that it is hard to guess your chances**. In your case, 27 rejections is not an accident, unless you applied to mostly schools way above your stats.
* Two threads for you to peruse. One. Two.
** Although I will add that high GPA low MCAT isn't as uncommon as the reverse, I think, and usually gets interpreted the way Lizzy suggests.

Buy the Exam Krackers books***, know everything in them cold, and nail the MCATs this April. Call up a few doctors offices and ask if you can shadow them. Do so. Apply this summer with your new MCAT scores and watch the acceptances roll in. It really is that simple. What's a few more months work after a few years of nailing classes?
*** I say this because they really are the best and tell you only what you need to know. If you know and can do everything in them, you will do well on the MCATs. I have no personal connection with them. In fact, I recently applied for a job teaching with them in response to ads they placed and they didn't call me back after THREE conversations with the secretary. So they are disorganized and run by idiot students, perhaps, but their texts are amazing.

Best of luck to 'ya. My heart goes out to you on the rejections. I can't imagine what 27 rejections feels like, but I can picture just enough of it to know it ain't good. Just remember they aren't rejecting you, just the parts of your application they can see on paper. Keep them spirits up and go at it for next year.

Best,
Ari