Happy to chat with anyone re: career in medicine vs. finance

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LowerEast007

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Hey there,

I'm a long-time reader of SDN but have not posted before.

I thought I'd open up dialouge / availability to answer questions for anyone debating a career in finance (broadly defined as management consulting, i-banking, private equity / hedge funds) vs. a career in medicine.

I have recently decided to re-apply to medical school after being admitted during undergrad and deciding to pursue a career in finance. I currently work in the private equity / hedge fund space, but have also spent time / have enough colleagues in the other spaces to discuss them broadly.

See here for my quick pre-med background and current considerations, to avoid double-posting: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=671682

Happy to chat re: this topic here or PM. Thanks!

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Also made the switch, (from management consulting to medicine). No regrets whatsoever.
 
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I'm curious: what made you decide to switch?
 
I'm curious: what made you decide to switch?

Quite the loaded question. I haven't actually made the switch yet, but am preparing my application over the next ~2 years to do so. I've just resolved to make the switch.

That being said, it's due to a number of reasons - but I'd say the top reason is not having the value I derive from the job be greater than the set of reasons originally driving me towards medicine. They never went away. But, what did go away was the appeal of the job - the "sexiness" of it as an outside-in observer in college. At the end of the day, you need to be fundamentally stimulated by the motions you're going through, day-in, day-out. No amount of money, prestige, etc. will make up for that.
 
Quite the loaded question. I haven't actually made the switch yet, but am preparing my application over the next ~2 years to do so. I've just resolved to make the switch.

That being said, it's due to a number of reasons - but I'd say the top reason is not having the value I derive from the job be greater than the set of reasons originally driving me towards medicine. They never went away. But, what did go away was the appeal of the job - the "sexiness" of it as an outside-in observer in college. At the end of the day, you need to be fundamentally stimulated by the motions you're going through, day-in, day-out. No amount of money, prestige, etc. will make up for that.
Right on. Very similar to my reasoning.
 
Hey there,

I'm a long-time reader of SDN but have not posted before.

I thought I'd open up dialouge / availability to answer questions for anyone debating a career in finance (broadly defined as management consulting, i-banking, private equity / hedge funds) vs. a career in medicine.

I have recently decided to re-apply to medical school after being admitted during undergrad and deciding to pursue a career in finance. I currently work in the private equity / hedge fund space, but have also spent time / have enough colleagues in the other spaces to discuss them broadly.

See here for my quick pre-med background and current considerations, to avoid double-posting: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=671682

Happy to chat re: this topic here or PM. Thanks!

Why do you put "PE/HF"? They generally require different skills and attitudes (and are very different), though some funds may act kind of like PE.

Part of the reasons for many not to enter the world of finance are the barriers to entry. If that's not too personal, where did you do your undergrad (just a general idea)?

Additionally, what do you plan to do with MD/MBA? Do you want to corporate, or be a really solid private-practice guy? Or perhaps, VC?
 
Why do you put "PE/HF"? They generally require different skills and attitudes (and are very different), though some funds may act kind of like PE.

Part of the reasons for many not to enter the world of finance are the barriers to entry. If that's not too personal, where did you do your undergrad (just a general idea)?

Additionally, what do you plan to do with MD/MBA? Do you want to corporate, or be a really solid private-practice guy? Or perhaps, VC?


You're right - they're very different. Often grouped together as it's generally the track taken post 2 years in mgmt consulting or i-banking. Am just making the point that I can speak to that general career path.

Undergrad school was a top 20 school.

Plans with an MD/MBA are a little nebulus at this point. I don't want to do VC - if I did, I'd stay in the tangential space I am in now. I also don't think the MD/MBA is a prereq. to be a "real solid private-practice" guy.

The real use I see re: the degree is

1) Doing something in a local market / targetted towards a specific demographic that requires external funding and subject to larger, general market trends (I.e. starting a free or subsidized clinic). The skill-set of someone who can run the place (management / business) with someone who can operate on a day-to-day basis and understand how the organization's decisions impact the end patient is invaluable. I actually think this combination of skills is void in the market today. It wouldn't have made much sense for Zuckerburg to start Facebook without knowing how to code and/or understanding his end user perceptions (college students), right? It's much easier to get the buy-in from supporters (investors, other physicians, government bodies) when you bring a rounded skill-set to the table.

2) Something closer to healthcare policy. Problem here is you lose the access to the end patient and the wealth of information that provides. I really believe reform has to be a combination of high-level laws combined with nuances at the doctor-patient level, but that's another topic. That being said, healthcare policy would still be an option on the table.
 
You're right - they're very different. Often grouped together as it's generally the track taken post 2 years in mgmt consulting or i-banking. Am just making the point that I can speak to that general career path.

Undergrad school was a top 20 school.

Plans with an MD/MBA are a little nebulus at this point. I don't want to do VC - if I did, I'd stay in the tangential space I am in now. I also don't think the MD/MBA is a prereq. to be a "real solid private-practice" guy.

The real use I see re: the degree is

1) Doing something in a local market / targetted towards a specific demographic that requires external funding and subject to larger, general market trends (I.e. starting a free or subsidized clinic). The skill-set of someone who can run the place (management / business) with someone who can operate on a day-to-day basis and understand how the organization's decisions impact the end patient is invaluable. I actually think this combination of skills is void in the market today. It wouldn't have made much sense for Zuckerburg to start Facebook without knowing how to code and/or understanding his end user perceptions (college students), right? It's much easier to get the buy-in from supporters (investors, other physicians, government bodies) when you bring a rounded skill-set to the table.

2) Something closer to healthcare policy. Problem here is you lose the access to the end patient and the wealth of information that provides. I really believe reform has to be a combination of high-level laws combined with nuances at the doctor-patient level, but that's another topic. That being said, healthcare policy would still be an option on the table.

That's interesting... When I said "real solid private practice guy" I just meant picking up a lot of skills in acquiring capital and selling yourself. Well...I still think that would make you exceptionally solid. It would definitely come in helpful for your Plan 1.

Though, did you ever consider an MPA? It seems that it might be more appropriate for Plan 2.
 
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Why not pursue a career in both? If you have a strong interest in the business side of health care, then you may find that a job that combines business with medicine to be quite interesting.
 
Hey there,

I'm a long-time reader of SDN but have not posted before.

I thought I'd open up dialouge / availability to answer questions for anyone debating a career in finance (broadly defined as management consulting, i-banking, private equity / hedge funds) vs. a career in medicine.

I have recently decided to re-apply to medical school after being admitted during undergrad and deciding to pursue a career in finance. I currently work in the private equity / hedge fund space, but have also spent time / have enough colleagues in the other spaces to discuss them broadly.

See here for my quick pre-med background and current considerations, to avoid double-posting: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=671682

Happy to chat re: this topic here or PM. Thanks!

Did you delete that linked post? I just see "Thanks!" in there now.

I'm in a similar situation, having come out of undergrad, and deciding between going the MC/IB/PE route vs. going this med school route.

You can make $250K-$300K in a good PE shop, so what makes you want to give that up and go into med?
 
What is the money like? Both for a person right out of undergrad, and for a person mid-career. I always hear about 1st year I-banking analysts making 100k+, is this the norm or do most people make much less than this starting out?
 
YeOldeMan, I've skimmed the idea of an MPA. MBA seems like a nice extension of my current trajectory, so likely why I lean that way. Also, Plan 2 is more hazy at this point - if I wanted something pure policy / no patient contact, there wouldn't be much of a reason to get an MD...in my eyes you goto med school because you want to see patients / see value in that aspect of the job. Else, almost every other function within the healthcare space can be accomplished without the MD.

Dr. Kim, I'm so glad you stumbled on this post. I'm a long-time, on and off reader of your blog, particularly in school. I have found very few places where you can find concrete information re: intersection of medicine and business that are particularly helpful / not just fluff. Your posts are always a source of good leads / interesting points re: this intersection. Though, I am still searching for meaty examples of MD/MBA's and how they've managed to combine patient contact with an MBA skill-set to effect change at a higher level in the community (I.e. developing a free / subsidized clinic). If you know of any good resources, please advise. I have not read your blog in a while so will make sure to poke around for any leads...

dirtyshoe, I did delete the post. Felt it was a long-winded way of asking what are some neat / interesting extracurriculuars to get involved in that are more in-line with my future aspirations. Also, on the flip side, a good way to solicit advice and how to build a strong app through the set of activities that I find most interesting. Will likely post again the same question in the non-trad forum in a more succinct form.

dirtyshoe / dukemed22, I don't want to make this a public discussion re: salaries. There are far too many [albeit, speculative] posts floating around on this. I'll give some high-level, reliable dataopoints but let's focus on the more qualitative stuff, as those become infinitely more important when you actually have to do the job. Post undergraduate when I graduated (peak), ibanking pays about ~$110-130 cash (about half bonus, half base), mgmt. consulting pays about $70-90 cash (much smaller bonus, but arguably opens up more doors, is more interesting, and they often give you options to pay for b-school, gauranteed offers to return, etc - I'm speaking about the top 3). Today, pay has come down ~20-40K at the i-banks, though some still pay fairly well. Private equity pay is highly variable and is a little more complicated. Range is $180K to ~$300 cash for the bigger / more reputable places (Loosely defined as $4Bn funds and greater, through they are certainly very good places that are a little smaller than that). You also get significant forms of equity investing (fancy names for this - co-invest, phantom equity, etc), though usually at the junior level will bear both downside and upside risk and can sometimes be structured as a levered investment (aka buying on margin).

Numbers are for transparency. What's more important is the qualitative stuff. dirtyshoe, what makes me want to "give up" has very little to do with money. Two points here:

1) We all make the choice to go into medicine for a variety of reasons. I'm not sure there are "right" and "wrong" reasons; in fact, my personal belief is we all do it to maximize our own happiness. What I can say is that if the reason is to make an absurd amount of money, you'll likely be dissapointed in medicine (so I hear). This doesn't mean money is the "wrong" reason; but it does mean you might be dissapointed if your "money wants" exceed what are known to be average physician comp levels.

2) I've realized (and most people come to this realization, I think) post-college that money has a diminishing marginal value a lot faster than you'd think - esp when comparing top-notch careers (medicine, law, finance, etc). Sure, I want to drive a nice car, send my kids to private school, etc - but, you can do all those things in all those professions. What matters more is you're able to derive satisfaction (read: happiness) from your actual job. Note, this is easy to say and harder to believe sometimes without actually playing the part; the grass is always greener on the other side, so to speak. So, if you have doubts / want to give it a taste, I'd say try it before committing to medicine. If you're satisfied (happy enough) in a profession other than medicine, then you're set - no need to change. I think that's the way I looked at my decision and I'm happy I'm here now; but, as stated above, planning to make the move back in ~2-3 years.

Cheers.
 
Bump... no more questions / comments / discussion?

Ill comment...

I graduated with a business degree in Real Estate (the first time around). I worked for a year (felt like eternity) after school within a big Commercial Real Estate firm. Why did I do this?? Well, didn't know what I wanted to do in college so I did what everyone else does...go the "corporate america" route. I picked Real Estate because I saw soo many people become EXTREMELY wealthy while working in this field. It is very lucrative, but also is a very boooooooooring, unsatisfying, booooring, 7 day a week booooring job. I was sick of working hard for months at a time striving for that extra commission/bonus only to realize at the end of the 6 months that John Doe couldn't obtain financing. There is no way I can live life where my job is contingent on others "following through."

I soon realized that whatever I did, did not matter. I was working to better the company, but not to better myself. Sure I would get reimbursed nicely but who cares! I became so tired of the monotoneity of sitting at my desk all day and watching others kiss ass (cuz Lord knows I don't do that) that I knew it wasn't right for me. I was the inverse of gratified at the end of everyday. I wasn't using my brain and couldn't even figure out 20% tip at a restaurant in less than 2 minutes!! I decided I want to do something to make a difference, something I enjoyed, and something I felt gratified leaving work everyday.

I looked into a number of things, job changes, career changes, etc. I applied for a new job (in RE) and made it through 3 interviews at a prestigous RE firm in a top city in the US and got offered the job (during the highest point of the recession). During the final interview the partner was telling me about what I will be doing how I will "benefit" the company, etc blah blah blah. During this 3rd interview I zoned out and just thought to myself..."I don't care about ANYTHING this guy has to say, and i DEFINITELY don't care about real estate!" a few hours later I sent him an email and respectfully declined the job.

Long story short, I piddled around looking for somethin I was interested in...Found medicine...absolutely fell in love...and now Im applying this coming term :)

Sorry for the length and the ranting/errors!
MC
 
One more thing...

I know this has to do mostly with finance, whereas I was in the Real Estate field. So here is a little addition....

I live with 4 of my friends from college (we all went to college/grew up together with athletics) currently, in Atlanta. We are all 24-25 yrs old. 3 of them are i-bankers with a very large firm, and the other one works at a Big 4 accounting firm. Every single one of them absolutely loathe their jobs. Especially the i-bankers. They work anywhere from 40-100hr work weeks salaried around ~65k (2nd/3rd year analysts). They bust their asses for an entire year FOR THE BANK, in hopes to get a large end of the year bonus (usually 80-100% of salary). 1st year, everything is dandy even though their bonus was around 60%. But, who cares? You are 23yrs old and just made 100k+ your first year out of college. 2nd & 3rd years...they made less bonus than the 1st year, with equal amount of yearly work. All 3 of them are fed-up (not just about the money) and are looking for new careers. 1 is even thinking about going into medicine!!

I am not trying to scare you at all, rather give you a real life (non-biased) situation with my friends in the finance world. It takes the right type of person to continue on with an i-bank until retirement. Believe me, you will be extreeeeeeeeemely well-compensated if you do, but sometimes you gotta ask yourself...is it worth it to you?

Hope this rambling helps!!

Oh, and I am no way trying to dog finance field. Some people love it, some people hate it. Then again, some people are content with doing something they hate for a good paycheck. Best bet...do an internship!

MC
 
Just for anyone interested...I'm applying to medical school this year but have recently thought about how interested I am in business, research, technology, policy, etc. and all their intersections. I've actually applied for a one-year Masters Degree (similar to an MBA) from Cambridge in the UK, that seems to take these focuses and concentrate it on bringing new medical advances and scientific research to a market-based health-care economy. I'm planning on deferring med school for a year should I be accepted (pending scholarship/trust money as well). But, I'll admit that my interest in the course is partially related to my desire to live abroad for a year while I'm young :)

http://www.biot.cam.ac.uk/mbe/

To me this is an example of how business training might translate into a really useful tool-set for a physician, specifically if you're interested in research like myself and it's translation to the clinic. Just my two cents.
 
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