Harbor-UCLA is now approved for the 4 year program per a current rotating MSIV I know doing a sub-I
Harbor-UCLA 4 years
- Thread starter quicknss
- Start date
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2011
- Messages
- 801
- Reaction score
- 46
hmmm....are you 100% sure?
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2006
- Messages
- 1,297
- Reaction score
- 136
Harbor-UCLA is likely to still be a three-year program next year. A lot of logistics and politics go into actually transitioning everything into a four-year program, and although it has been approved by the ACGME, it is unlikely that everything will solidify. Once we know for sure, we will let everyone know, but my money is on that this upcoming class will be the last three-year class. The final decision will be made pretty soon, because it's important that all the applicants know what they are buying into. Either way, three-year or four-year, I have been thoroughly satisfied with the training thus far and am extremely happy to have matched here.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2011
- Messages
- 801
- Reaction score
- 46
welp. Time to pull my application.
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2006
- Messages
- 1,297
- Reaction score
- 136
quicknss is correct; as of yesterday the approval to become a four-year program went through. The interview day will go through the changes in the curriculum, but they look great. The extra year will give the residents an opportunity to have more elective time, more critical care time as a senior, the opportunity to have more community Emergency Medicine experiences, and to more closely work with people from the expanding fellowship programs to see if any of the fellowship tracks interest you. Our program director will be going through everything in detail, but since this was such a hot topic and now it has solidified, I feel that I should verify it as well.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2011
- Messages
- 801
- Reaction score
- 46
I feel like all the applicants deserve an email from this place. Thats a pretty big effing deal to spring on a potential resident.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2011
- Messages
- 801
- Reaction score
- 46
I think ill probably just call the PC monday morn.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2007
- Messages
- 455
- Reaction score
- 39
.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2012
- Messages
- 6
- Reaction score
- 0
Meh. They'd fill their class no problem if they increased to 7 years
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2006
- Messages
- 78
- Reaction score
- 0
Hi All,
I am currently a resident at Harbor and we just got this email (pasted below) from our PD, Madonna Fernandez to send out to all. It is going to be a great interview season, we are all excited about the change. There will 16 spots for the new 4 year program!
We are thrilled to announce that the Harbor-UCLA Emergency Medicine Residency Program was approved by the RRC to change our format from a PGY1-3 program to a PGY1-4 program. We will be recruiting this interview season for the first PGY1-4 class to start in July of 2013. We have long been a well respected Emergency Medicine training program with an amazing patient population, and nationally recognized teaching faculty. We continue to be very proud of our 3 year program, but feel we have more to offer.
Over the years we have expanded our department to include many fellowships in a wide variety of subspecialties in Emergency Medicine. These include Pediatric Emergency Medicine (6 Fellows…this program has double from 3 in the past year), Medical Education (2 Fellows), Global Health (2 Fellows), Emergency Medical Services (1 Fellow), Ultrasound (1 Fellow), Research (1 Fellow), Medical Administration (up to 1 Fellow), and Disaster Preparedness (up to 1 Fellow). These Fellows and their fellowship directors are actively involved in a variety of projects and research on our campus and around the globe. Although our 3 year program has produced many leaders in Emergency Medicine, the time constraints of a 3 year curriculum have not allowed our residents to participate meaningfully in these experiences with the fellows and faculty. The new curriculum adds 3 months of selective time during either the 3rd or 4th year for our residents to explore an interest in one of these subspecialties.
We will also be adding more critical care time in the surgical ICUs, a Pediatric Anesthesia rotation, and an administrative rotation, as well as lengthening our most popular community hospital rotation.Please be patient with us as we update all of the residency associated web sites with new information. We will be providing detailed information to our applicants on their interview day as well.
Regards,
Madonna Fernández-Frackelton, MD, FACEP
Associate Professor of Medicine
David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA
Residency Director
Harbor-UCLA Medical Center
Department of Emergency Medicine
I am currently a resident at Harbor and we just got this email (pasted below) from our PD, Madonna Fernandez to send out to all. It is going to be a great interview season, we are all excited about the change. There will 16 spots for the new 4 year program!
We are thrilled to announce that the Harbor-UCLA Emergency Medicine Residency Program was approved by the RRC to change our format from a PGY1-3 program to a PGY1-4 program. We will be recruiting this interview season for the first PGY1-4 class to start in July of 2013. We have long been a well respected Emergency Medicine training program with an amazing patient population, and nationally recognized teaching faculty. We continue to be very proud of our 3 year program, but feel we have more to offer.
Over the years we have expanded our department to include many fellowships in a wide variety of subspecialties in Emergency Medicine. These include Pediatric Emergency Medicine (6 Fellows…this program has double from 3 in the past year), Medical Education (2 Fellows), Global Health (2 Fellows), Emergency Medical Services (1 Fellow), Ultrasound (1 Fellow), Research (1 Fellow), Medical Administration (up to 1 Fellow), and Disaster Preparedness (up to 1 Fellow). These Fellows and their fellowship directors are actively involved in a variety of projects and research on our campus and around the globe. Although our 3 year program has produced many leaders in Emergency Medicine, the time constraints of a 3 year curriculum have not allowed our residents to participate meaningfully in these experiences with the fellows and faculty. The new curriculum adds 3 months of selective time during either the 3rd or 4th year for our residents to explore an interest in one of these subspecialties.
We will also be adding more critical care time in the surgical ICUs, a Pediatric Anesthesia rotation, and an administrative rotation, as well as lengthening our most popular community hospital rotation.Please be patient with us as we update all of the residency associated web sites with new information. We will be providing detailed information to our applicants on their interview day as well.
Regards,
Madonna Fernández-Frackelton, MD, FACEP
Associate Professor of Medicine
David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA
Residency Director
Harbor-UCLA Medical Center
Department of Emergency Medicine
Last edited:
yep. pretty much impossible to do a 3 year program in Cali, unless you come to Davis!!
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,663
- Reaction score
- 2,589
Pretty ****ty to spring that on people who applied to a 3 year program that suddenly became 4. But I agree there are desperate people out there whod prob rank the program if it were 8 years.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2011
- Messages
- 801
- Reaction score
- 46
never said they wouldnt, just not with me..
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2012
- Messages
- 188
- Reaction score
- 2
Lol!!
- Joined
- May 8, 2007
- Messages
- 1,192
- Reaction score
- 147
Same here. I would not apply there. They can milk the extra year of slave labor in the name of training.
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2009
- Messages
- 269
- Reaction score
- 6
Got rejected by them earlier this week. I ain't even mad now.
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,663
- Reaction score
- 2,589
Hah was thinking the same thing. I wouldnt have applied had i known it was a 4 year program so rejecting me saved me a wasted trip.
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2007
- Messages
- 7,863
- Reaction score
- 13,572
Good on those who say: "Four years ? Pffft. No, thanks."
Its ridiculous. We would be able to put more docs into practice if we eliminated more and more waste like this from the medical education system; but that's a topic for another thread.
Its ridiculous. We would be able to put more docs into practice if we eliminated more and more waste like this from the medical education system; but that's a topic for another thread.
- Joined
- May 6, 2009
- Messages
- 1,370
- Reaction score
- 1,132
I disagree with Rusted.
In fact, I think to disregard Harbor just because it is a four-year program is a mistake.
As we all know, there is no need to get into another 3 vs. 4 discussion (unless someone has something new to say), but I think if you were interested in Harbor for its mission, educational style, patient population, research, clinical opportunities, residency atmosphere/environment, type of jobs their grads get after residency, training style, etc before, you are likely to still find these qualities attractive. I think (and I am not alone here) that the length of a residency alone is poor reason to disregard programs.
In fact, I think that would be the mistake.
Unlike what Rusted implies in his post above, the role of all residency programs is not to put more "doctors into practice", at least not all into traditional clinical practice.
Some are focused on producing researchers or teachers or sub-specialists working in non-clinical roles...indeed, some residencies are proud of how FEW residents that train to be "doctors in practice".
I agree these type of residencies are not for everyone (and I am not saying this is type of residency Harbor is or is about to become), but they show the breath of training that is out there...and I think it is more important that applicants find the type of training that they want on that spectrum and the type of program that they fit into well with than it is for them to find a three-year or four-year program.
So, if as an applicant you were interested in what Harbor has to offer and you wanted to find out if you would fit in well there when you applied, I think it is a mistake to now disregard them now that they are a four-year program.
HH
In fact, I think to disregard Harbor just because it is a four-year program is a mistake.
As we all know, there is no need to get into another 3 vs. 4 discussion (unless someone has something new to say), but I think if you were interested in Harbor for its mission, educational style, patient population, research, clinical opportunities, residency atmosphere/environment, type of jobs their grads get after residency, training style, etc before, you are likely to still find these qualities attractive. I think (and I am not alone here) that the length of a residency alone is poor reason to disregard programs.
In fact, I think that would be the mistake.
Unlike what Rusted implies in his post above, the role of all residency programs is not to put more "doctors into practice", at least not all into traditional clinical practice.
Some are focused on producing researchers or teachers or sub-specialists working in non-clinical roles...indeed, some residencies are proud of how FEW residents that train to be "doctors in practice".
I agree these type of residencies are not for everyone (and I am not saying this is type of residency Harbor is or is about to become), but they show the breath of training that is out there...and I think it is more important that applicants find the type of training that they want on that spectrum and the type of program that they fit into well with than it is for them to find a three-year or four-year program.
So, if as an applicant you were interested in what Harbor has to offer and you wanted to find out if you would fit in well there when you applied, I think it is a mistake to now disregard them now that they are a four-year program.
HH
The advantages and disadvantages of 3s and 4s have been beaten to death but I did want to add this. One thing to take into account is that 4 year programs are required to invest heavily in the 4th year. CMS only pays 50% for the 4th year so the 4 year programs are chipping in $75,000 per 4th year resident per year. Extrapolate that onto Harbor and they have decided that a fourth year of training is worth the $1,200,000 per year.
TL;DR - 4 year programs stay 4 years because they believe that is the best training format and pay a significant financial penalty for it.
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,663
- Reaction score
- 2,589
So the hospital loses 75k per resident per year and the resident loses out on 100k+ attending salary for questionably more thorough training while accruing more interest? Sounds awesome where do i sign up?
Similar threads
