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Harder DO SCHOOLS to get into?????

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by einey, Jan 18, 2002.

  1. einey

    einey Member

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    Hi,

    I want to know, which are the more difficult DO schools to get into, the harder, more selective? PCOM, UHS, Texas, Arizona, Maine, Kirksville Western Comp, Touro? Thanks.
     
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  3. Hedwig

    Hedwig Senior Member

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    That's a loaded question, but I'll do my best. My family has made a living from DO school administration from decades, and this is what my parent tells me.

    First of all, none of the schools are "easy" to get into. Only 1/5 applicants get accepted to DO school (as opposed to 1/2-1/3 for MD).

    That said, it's generally felt in "the business" (hah!) that PCOM, CCOM, TCOM, and UMDNJSOM are the tougher schools to get into. These are the schools that generally get applications from all over the country (Texas gets primarily in-state applicants, but Texas is larger than France, so it's pretty much the same) AND from large, concentrated metropolises, resulting in highly diverse, highly qualified applicant pools. PCOM and UMDNJSOM are also less focused on OMM and primary care, making them more like conventional allopathic medical schools than paradigmatic osteopathic once. Huge percentages of their grads specialize, and they draw a lot of would-be MDs. I'm not aware if this is the case at TCOM and CCOM. Also, I'm told that PCOM receives the most amount of applications of all the DO schools, while UMDNJSOM has only 75 slots to fill and very reasonable tuition, making both schools highly competitive.

    Something else to consider in DO admissions is that, when applying to an out-of-state state school, your chances of admission are slim unless you're really stellar. I'm thinking here of Michigan State, Oklahoma State, UMDNJ, TCOM, OUCOM, and Pikeville (though it's not a state school, you have to either be from the area or do a great job proving that you want to practice family medicine there).

    I wouldn't put too much stock in which schools are more competitive, though. It really makes no difference. What I WOULD consider is that, out of all the DO schools, the ones with the best academic reputations are PCOM, NYCOM, and TCOM (this is NOT my opinion, please don't yell at me). NYCOM, as the largest medical school in the United States (320 places per class), is not the most competitive school to get into, and stories of people being accepted with 21 MCATs are not uncommon, but their education is definitely in the top 3--very OMM-heavy, but not so much primary care. (I go away to school at NYIT, the school where NYCOM is located, and this is what students tell me. I don't recall ever meeting somebody who didn't think NYCOM's education is top-notch.)

    Hope that helps.
     
  4. algae

    algae Senior Member

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    This may not be quite the answer to your question, but here are the acceptance rates to the schools you listed:

    UHS - 17.4%
    TCOM - 15.1%
    NYCOM - 15.1%
    Touro - 15%
    AZCOM - 12.8%
    KCOM - 11.7%
    UNECOM - 7.8%
    PCOM - N/A
     
  5. KCOM2005

    KCOM2005 Senior Member

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    Hedwig,
    I don't mean to pick fights, but your response seamed to be very heavily weighted on your personnal knowledge (ie - do you have any numbers to back up the statements you made). I really don't agree with choosing a school based on numbers, but that is basically what the question implies.
     
  6. pags

    pags Senior Member

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    I'm a NYCOM 4th year. Our class is about 250 and I thought that was too big. 320 is rediculous. I think that should be an important factor in choosing schools; how you think you'll be treated in all your 4 years here as 1 of 320. This is my major gripe of NYCOM. Other than that, I agree the education is good and fairly rigorous. Yes, there are people in my class with 21 MCATS. Again, that might be a reflection of the number of students that are accepted.

    Personally, word on the street here is that PCOM and CCOM are the IVY of the osteopathic schools. However, I really don't know why people say that.
    Also, and I don't have numbers on this, that UMDNJSOM does best with the allopathic match out of all the DO schools. All I know is that I've met a few on the radiology interview tour this year.
     
  7. Hedwig

    Hedwig Senior Member

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    KCOM2005, don't worry, no fight being picked :)

    I am a post-bacc premedical student, and I don't have a personal opinion since I don't know anything. Like I said, one of my parents is a senior administrator at one of the osteopathic medical schools in the northeast United States, and this is what I'm told. He also works with AACOM and the AOA, so this is relatively objective knowledge. One could argue that these are HIS opinions, but he is highly educated and has made his living from osteopathic medical education for the last 30 years, so I believe what he says. I am not imparting my own opinions about anything.

    I didn't mean to insult anybody or any school. I was just trying to answer the question. Again, regardless of a few admissions statistics which don't mean anything anyway, all the DO schools have their strengths and weaknesses. There is no perfect school, MD or DO.

    One caveat, though. Don't estimate how difficult it is to get into a school based on the percentage of students accepted. The percentage of accepted students belies the QUALITY of the applicant pool, which is the only true test of competition.

    KCOM2005, again, no disrespect intended. This is just what I get from someone who I consider to be just about as highly educated about osteopathic medical education as anyone.

    And again, NO DO SCHOOL IS EASY TO GET INTO!
     
  8. einey

    einey Member

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    Thanks for the reply,

    HEDWIG, I thought DO schools were "easier" to get into, that's why people stupidly say, that "you only applied to DO schools because you couldn't get into an MD school." Where does the 1/5 DO acceptance vs 1/2 to 1/3 MD acceptance info come from?
     
  9. Smileyfree

    Smileyfree Member

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    Just wanted to clarify the info about the number of students at NYCOM. I will be attending NYCOM in august and they do not have 320 students, although that number is not too far off. There will be 260 regular students and 40 APEP (accelerated program to educated emigre physicians) students. The APEP students are foreign MD's who are being retrained as american DO's. These students will be in lecture courses with the regular students, but not in labs, such as anatomy, etc. So the class is really about 260, which is not all that far off from PCOM, which has about 250 students.
    And one extra note, NYCOM's clinical affiliations for third and fourth year rotations are second to none!!! Good luck in this crazy process!!!!
     
  10. Hedwig

    Hedwig Senior Member

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    Einey,

    DO schools are "easier" to get into based on your personal stats--GPA, MCAT primarily--rather than then number of applicants applying. There are 10,000 allopathic slots to fell every year, and they receive roughly 30,000 applications for these slots. DO schools, which have only 2,000 slots (though this will be raised slightly with the new Edward Via Virginia College of Osteopathic Medicine, opening for the class of 2007 I believe), receive 10,000 applications, thus the 1:5 ratio.
     
  11. mdmom

    mdmom Member

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    FYI,

    Here are some stats for schools in Texas. (Entry 2000 and 2001)

    Avg GPA Avg MCAT

    Southwestern
    2000 3.78 33.4
    2001 3.77 33.3

    Galveston
    2000 3.71 27.6
    2001 3.66 28.2

    Houston
    2000 3.66 28.7
    2001 3.61 27.5

    San Antonio
    2000 3.53 28.6
    2001 3.51 27.9

    A&M
    2000 3.68 29.4
    2001 3.73 29.1

    Texas Tech
    2000 3.61 29.0
    2001 3.65 28.8

    TCOM
    2000 3.62 28.0
    2001 3.58 26.6

    Hope this information helps answer some of your questions.
     
  12. mpp

    mpp SDN Moderator
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  13. pags

    pags Senior Member

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    You have to understand folks, that many of those 10,000 DO applicants are MD applicants as well. Having said that, this can explain the modest relative increase in the applicant:spot ratio the osteopathic schools seemingly have. I'm confident that with only considering the purely DO applicants, this would lower the ratio of applicant: DO spots to around 2 to 3:1.
     
  14. Gotrob

    Gotrob Member

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    That may be true paqs, but you must remember that many MD hopefuls who do not get into a MD school will fill a spot at a DO school. The only DO # would be off also.

    Also, I have read (on this board, so take it for what you will) that the accepted stats includes those who are accepted and do not attend. This may mean the GPA and MCAT avg. posted may not actually represent the student body. This is supposedly true for all schools...DO or MD.
     
  15. mdmom

    mdmom Member

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    Without getting too deep into the how's and why's, the point of the stats given was to show that the DO school in Texas has comparable stats to the MD schools. I know several people with MCAT scores in the high 30's who have attended TCOM because of location, if for no other reason. They could have gotten into an MD school, yet they CHOSE the DO school.

    No matter where you decide to apply, the road is long and tough. Do your best in all of your classes and on the MCAT and you should be interviewed and eventually accepted.

    Best of luck!
     
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  17. melancholy

    melancholy 1K Member

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    pags- As a fourth year NYCOM student in a relatively large class by some standards, I was curious if you could give a very rough estimate of how many students you thought that probably left your class in the first two years. I'm a bit curious as to how some school administrations handle this subject.. in terms of how many people leave and perhaps how extreme the school is willing to go to keep a student in the program... thanks a ton!
     
  18. pags

    pags Senior Member

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    Melancholy:
    I really don't know that answer. 2 left for MD schools and a few decelerated into our 5 year plan. In general, NYCOM, like most american medical schools, try to keep as many people in the school as possible. I think it would make the school look bad if their attrition rates were high.
     
  19. Dr JPH

    Dr JPH Banned
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    From information that I have been able to gather (Open houses, talking to students, etc.) PCOM's acceptance rate seems to be steady at around 11%

    Schools with smaller entering classes (UMDNJ-SOM) would obviously have numbers that vary from those of a larger school (PCOM, NYCOM) which have 3.5 times the number of entering students.
     
  20. einey

    einey Member

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    What are PCOM's mean GPA and MCAT's for admission?
     
  21. Dr JPH

    Dr JPH Banned
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    If you check PCOM website (always search before asking) you would have found the following information:

    "In 2000, the entering D.O. Class of 2004 consisted of 250 first-time students from 139 different colleges and 20 states. The average class GPA was 3.32, the science GPA was 3.22 and the mean MCAT score was 24.24. Students averaged 24 years of age; 44 percent are women and 21 percent are minorities. PCOM encourages nontraditional students. In the entering class, 21 percent have graduate degrees, 28 percent have had other careers and 4 percent are military veterans."
     
  22. pags

    pags Senior Member

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    I'm really suprised the numbers are that low from PCOM. I figured they would be higher.
     
  23. The average GPA & MCAT scores for students currently enrolled at TUCOM are:

    GPA: 3.5
    MCAT: 27

    Some schools (MD&DO) tend to inflate their numbers by including the GPAs and MCATs of accepted students who decide to attend another school (usually a better school than the one they declined). If TUCOM included the GPAs and MCATs of all accepted students, the average would probably look more like this:

    MCAT: 30
    GPA: 3.6-3.7

    Bear in mind that our averages are for the 125 enrolled students. Many of the students that declined to come probably had higher GPAs and MCAT scores.

    <a href="http://209.209.34.25/webdocs/admissions/tucominfo.htm" target="_blank">http://209.209.34.25/webdocs/admissions/tucominfo.htm</a>
     
  24. Talus

    Talus Junior Member

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    Mark Twain once said:

    "There are 3 levels of untruths:
    1. Lies
    2. Damn Lies
    3. . . .and then there are statistics!

    His quote rings true with with #3.
     
  25. Pilot

    Pilot Senior Member

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    Here is the info for OSU-CHS College of Osteopathic Medicine for the Class of 2005. This is from the school's website..

    <a href="http://www.healthsciences.okstate.edu/center/student/matrprofile.htm" target="_blank">http://www.healthsciences.okstate.edu/center/student/matrprofile.htm</a>


    Class of 2005 Matriculant Profile
    Acceptance Profile
    Total Students Accepted: 88 (100%)

    MCAT Average: 8.9
    Average Overall GPA: 3.5
    Average Science GPA: 3.42
    Oklahoma: 76 (86%)
    Non-Resident: 12 (14%)
    Male: 53%
    Female: 47%
    Ethnic Minorities: 19%

    Application Profile
    Total Applications Processed: 1,075 (88 positions available)

    Oklahoma: 248
    Non-Resident: 827
     

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