Harvard vs. Columbia-Bassett

[Salt Salt]

Hi all. I need some help deciding between two schools: Harvard (Pathways) and the Columbia-Bassett program. I list the pros and cons (+/-) below.

For those of you who don't know, the Columbia-Bassett program is a track at Columbia where 10 students do their main clinical year in upstate NY (a tiny town named Cooperstown with a huge hospital) with a truly longitudinal curriculum instead of the traditional rotations. It is NOT especially for rural or primary care students, a common misconception. We get $30,000 merit scholarships, and special lectures and lunches (with hospital CEOs and insurance executives talking to us about the policy side of healthcare) and stuff throughout the four years.

The Columbia-Bassett program might carry more weight than Columbia alone, since it's a rather special program and the 10 students receive hands-on mentoring that seems to exceed traditional programs (since there are only ten of us). It's also significantly more competitive (acceptance rate of ~1%). But residency directors might not know these things---it's a small and new program.

Harvard:
+ Incredible school in a league of its own; best in the world, even
+ Work with ultra famous doctors and scientists
+ Incredible research opportunities in a variety of fields (including social science/ethics/humanities, a huge interest, strong suit, and background of mine---and possibly my future)
- New curriculum will be bumpy; I'll be a guinea pig
- I've heard the students are not very collegial

Columbia-Bassett:
+ $30k/yr scholarship
+ Special lectures and stuff for the Bassett cohort
+ Would get really good hands-on mentoring compared to most clinical programs (it's usually one student and one resident per doctor)
+ Conjecture, but maybe less competition during clinical years since there are only 10 students in Cooperstown and we all want to "make it work," and we are usually not working side-by-side (so no patient-stealing to impress attendings, etc.)
- In the C-B program, I will be strongly encouraged to do Quality Improvement projects, not an area of interest, although I think I could still do social research if I wanted
- Not a fan of NYC

I'm planning on psych---not the highest paying specialty---so should I give more weight to finances here? And psych's not a competitive specialty so maybe Harvard's prestige won't be as important for me.

I think I would be happy at either school. At this point, it's Columbia's money vs. Harvard's connections, better/more diverse scholarly opportunities, and, yes, ranking.

Thanks!

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[NickNaylor]

Don't overthink it. You will be fine wherever you go. Personally I would take the money and run - that will have a more significant impact on you in the long-term than Harvard vs. Columbia.

 

[intangible]

They are both brilliant institutions and you'll get a good education at either one. It's a matter of personal preference. Professionally, your name will glow with Harvard OR Columbia underneath your name.

Considering your choice in specialty, you shouldn't have a problem matching to a good program regardless of your choice. HMS and CUCPS are both pass/fail schools and have great extracurriculars.

 

[jsquared91]

Hi all. I need some help deciding between two schools: Harvard (Pathways) and the Columbia-Bassett program. I list the pros and cons (+/-) below.

For those of you who don't know, the Columbia-Bassett program is a track at Columbia where 10 students do their main clinical year in upstate NY (a tiny town named Cooperstown with a huge hospital) with a truly longitudinal curriculum instead of the traditional rotations. It is NOT especially for rural or primary care students, a common misconception. We get $30,000 merit scholarships, and special lectures and lunches (with hospital CEOs and insurance executives talking to us about the policy side of healthcare) and stuff throughout the four years.

The Columbia-Bassett program might carry more weight than Columbia alone, since it's a rather special program and the 10 students receive hands-on mentoring that seems to exceed traditional programs (since there are only ten of us). It's also significantly more competitive (acceptance rate of ~1%). But residency directors might not know these things---it's a small and new program.

Harvard:
+ Incredible school in a league of its own; best in the world, even
+ Work with ultra famous doctors and scientists
+ Incredible research opportunities in a variety of fields (including social science/ethics/humanities, a huge interest, strong suit, and background of mine---and possibly my future)
- New curriculum will be bumpy; I'll be a guinea pig
- I've heard the students are not very collegial

Columbia-Bassett:
+ $30k/yr scholarship
+ Special lectures and stuff for the Bassett cohort
+ Would get really good hands-on mentoring compared to most clinical programs (it's usually one student and one resident per doctor)
+ Conjecture, but maybe less competition during clinical years since there are only 10 students in Cooperstown and we all want to "make it work," and we are usually not working side-by-side (so no patient-stealing to impress attendings, etc.)
- In the C-B program, I will be strongly encouraged to do Quality Improvement projects, not an area of interest, although I think I could still do social research if I wanted
- Not a fan of NYC

I'm planning on psych---not the highest paying specialty---so should I give more weight to finances here? And psych's not a competitive specialty so maybe Harvard's prestige won't be as important for me.

I think I would be happy at either school. At this point, it's Columbia's money vs. Harvard's connections, better/more diverse scholarly opportunities, and, yes, ranking.

Thanks!

From a living perspective: Cooperstown and CNY isn't all that bad, there's great access to lots of outdoor activities and of course the baseball HOF. It's more of a "make your own fun" than the city or Boston, but still a nice place to be.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi all. I need some help deciding between two schools: Harvard (Pathways) and the Columbia-Bassett program. I list the pros and cons (+/-) below.

For those of you who don't know, the Columbia-Bassett program is a track at Columbia where 10 students do their main clinical year in upstate NY (a tiny town named Cooperstown with a huge hospital)

Columbia-Bassett:

- Not a fan of NYC

What's NYC got to do with it? Cooperstown is a 200 mile drive from NYC. The town is tiny, smaller in population than many college campuses, and the hospital system is designed, it seems, to serve people in the southern tier of New York State. If that is more appealing than Boston, it sounds like a good fit.

But you are in NYC for the first 2 years.... never mind.

 

[onceawolverine]

Disclaimer: I'm not Harvard's biggest fan, and I fear that any longwinded answer will come across as greatly biased. Therefore I just wanted to address one con below, quickly.

- In the C-B program, I will be strongly encouraged to do Quality Improvement projects, not an area of interest, although I think I could still do social research if I wanted

I met with several C-B students during 2nd look (coincidentally, I'm not in the program myself), who were engaged in various areas of scientific inquiry. Several were working on QI projects, true, but a few were combining projects, taking on multiple facets of a problem and trying to weave together "big picture" narratives.

I wrote a few more sentences, then realized I just sounded like a raving fangirl so I'll stop here. Best of luck to you in your decision, and I hope you make one you're thrilled with!

 

[WingedOx]

Disclaimer: I'm not Harvard's biggest fan, and I fear that any longwinded answer will come across as greatly biased. Therefore I just wanted to address one con below, quickly.

I met with several C-B students during 2nd look (coincidentally, I'm not in the program myself), who were engaged in various areas of scientific inquiry. Several were working on QI projects, true, but a few were combining projects, taking on multiple facets of a problem and trying to weave together "big picture" narratives.

I wrote a few more sentences, then realized I just sounded like a raving fangirl so I'll stop here. Best of luck to you in your decision, and I hope you make one you're thrilled with!

Eh... QI, particularly as an MS3 isn't something that's going to be entirely impressive or useful*. It's going to be rare for students not to have decent exposure to QI now that the residents above them are required to do so from the ACGME.

Edit: I should have clarified, useful for making a decision. Exposure to QI early is a good thing. QI when done well makes everyone's lives easier. QI done poorly results in everyone drowning in useless paperwork.

 

[mmmcdowe]

I'd point out, Columbia doesn't exactly have a lack of ultra famous doctors and researchers. You didn't mention your thoughts on the collegiality at Columbia, seems like that should play a role if it was a negative at Harvard. Plus Columbia's narrative medicine program is the top in the world, which seems to fit with your interests.

Moving to SSD

 

[WedgeDawg]

Just as an aside, both MGH and NYP/CUMC/New York Psychiatric Institute are top of the top psych programs, so in terms of relative prestige and matching potential, you really can't go wrong with either.

I think this should really come down to a question of finances and your "gut feeling". The difference in prestige is honestly negligible at this point - go where you think you'll be happier.

(Full disclosure: I'm Columbia P&S 2019)

 

[tenniseagle92]

So to give more of an HMS perspective, I do understand that the new curriculum isn't a fun idea (especially being a guinea pig), but the reason I chose HMS over Penn is the flexibility the curriculum provides in third and fourth year. The idea of front-loading med school to allow for customization on the back end is incredibly appealing, and I love that our class will get to figure it out together and have that sense of camaraderie. Also, all of the HMS students I know (n = ~7, so take with a grain of salt) love their classmates, study together often, and also have very active social lives.

Columbia and NYP are amazing and definitely excel in Psych, but one plug I would also add for HMS is the access to McLean. MGH is amazing (consistently a top 2 psych hospital), but access to McLean is something special. It's an incredible free-standing psych hospital, and I have two friends that work there who rave about the work they are doing.

As people have said, you really can't go wrong with the decision. Has HMS gotten back to you about financial aid yet? Penn offered me great aid (combo of scholarship and need-based), but HMS was nearly equivalent just based on how they do need. Ultimately, I chose HMS because of the sheer access to unlimited resources they have here in Boston. Being able to work with physicians from MGH, BWH, Beth Israel, Dana Farber Cancer Institute, and Boston Children's really sold itself for me.

Feel free to PM me if you want to talk about the decision more - I want to clarify, I am not trying to say you'll have any shortage of opportunities at Columbia. It's an amazing opportunity and program, so congrats! I just wanted to shed some light on why I chose HMS, and what I think sets it apart.

 

[Salt Salt]

Thanks everyone! And thanks @tenniseagle92 for the info on Harvard---seriously helpful!

 

[tenniseagle92]

Thanks everyone! And thanks @tenniseagle92 for the info on Harvard---seriously helpful!

No problem! I feel like HMS doesn't have as much representation on here as it has in years past, so those of us that are going have to speak up! One thing I also wanted to add: you mentioned you aren't a fan of NYC, though obviously that would only be relevant for 1.5 years (which is my understanding of the C-B program, though I can't claim to be too familiar with it).

If you aren't into big cities, I think HMS' location and access to the M2 shuttle definitely gives you some versatility in terms of neighborhoods that Manhattan might not have. Many HMS students choose to live in Brookline, which is definitely more of a neighborhood-like feel (houses, not apartment complexes, lots of green space, etc.). Also, with the M2 shuttle that runs from Longwood to Cambridge, many students live in Cambridge, which is still urban but definitely more laid-back and not nearly as hectic as NYC or the busier parts of Boston. I've lived in Boston for 23 years, so if you have any questions about the city itself also feel free to reach out.

Lastly, one other thing that pushed me toward HMS is research. Like you said, anything you could want to research at HMS is probably be being done in one of their affiliates. The sheer size of the institution is astounding. To put it into perspective, HMS and associated research centers have 1.4 billion in NIH funding, which is quite a bit higher than any other med school. This isn't because Harvard is necessarily better than any other top school; it just speaks to the sheer amount of Harvard affiliates there are doing research. If you have interests in policy, Harvard is largely regarded to have the best health policy department in the country, with faculty spread across the med school, the Kennedy School of Govt, and the grad school of arts and sciences. Also, the new curriculum takes out that first summer of research where many students often end up researching something irrelevant to their specialty of choice, as they often don't realize with certainty what they want to do until after rotations. The new curriculum puts all the free time after rotations and Step 1, giving you the opportunity to tailor your curricular and research plan as you see fit.

 

[resiroth]

The columbia program seems like it would be best at nurturing your growth as a physician, but that's an outsiders perspective. It seems remarkable to have 1 on 1 mentors.

I think Harvard isn't as gunner-ish as you suspect, but it's also possible columbia-basset would be even less gunnery.

What's the cost difference between the programs? If you're interested in psych this is a non-trivial concern.

If you have ties to boston and would like to spend 8 years there, or are particularly interested in Harvard's residencies then Harvard cannot be beat. Otherwise I think C-B is the best place for you, and you're wondering "will going to columbia-basset limit me?" and the answer is a strong "No". Honestly as you said Psych isn't that competitive a residency, so I would be surprised if you can't successfully match wherever you want coming from either school.

You can't go "wrong" either way, but I cast my vote for C-B (unless you really want to be in boston/want to match into their residencies above all else), since psych shouldn't be too hard to match into at Harvard + you need to be very concerned about debt.