Harvard vs. SUNY Stony Brook (full scholarship + stipend)

[172024MD]

Hi all, I would really appreciate your input. I am deciding between Harvard (Pathways) and SUNY Stony Brook (full scholarship + stipend). I am very conflicted because Harvard has a great name but is expensive. With SBU I can live at home and get paid to go to medical school. Any thoughts? Here are are some brief pros and cons:

Harvard
Pro:
- ~15 affiliated hospitals (plenty of clinical opportunities)
-EXCELLENT Match for competitive specialties (interested in surgery)
-Many opportunities for research
-Name-based recognition
-Flipped classroom design
-P/F curriculum


Con:
-likely 200k in loans
- 4h (car) from support system
-Dorm-style living


SUNY Stony Brook
Pro:
-Full tuition + stipend + free health insurance
-~ 20 min (car) from support system
- Don't need to secure housing
-Good research

Con:
-Less name based recognition
-H/P/F grading system

Thanks for the input

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[iluvmedicine528]

If you want to do residency in NYC definitely Stony!

 

[nymedschoolfan]

I would go to Harvard

 

[sealfriendo]

surgery=harvard

 

[seeinghowitgoes]

Need to know a bit more about your goals.

Be mostly a clinician in NY near home? SBU

Anything else? Harvard


That doesn’t even take into account the personal growth you’ll have being around the peers at Harvard and getting out of your comfort zone of home. I’m normally all about being financially savvy when you’re comparing things assuming you can reach the same end personally and professionally from either, but money is just about the only thing SBU has going for it in my book.

 

[Davidfromcali]

Definitely depends on career goals. HMS will open doors and set you up in ways that Stoney never could

 

[HPV]

Harvard over stony brook any day

 

[Engrailed]

Harvard, No question.

The opportunities between the two are incomparable.
If you intend on private practice/non-competitive specialty, Stonybrook could be ok.

 

[deleted936470]

lol

 

[172024MD]

Thank you all so much for your opinions. My career goals are still up in the air (ugh). I'm thinking about a competitive specialty (maybe ortho)...would like to go back to NY, but would also be happy staying in MA. Really, my problem boils down to money vs. prestige. Money is so tempting, and I'm trying to convince myself to take the loans even if it means I might be a little "uncomfortable" while paying them back

 

[Etopn23]

Harvard is worth it IMO. As a Texan - 4 hours doesn’t seem far. I understand things are different in the northeast but it’s definitely doable.

 

[u_raptor]

I wouldn't underwrite the value of a full ride with stipend. I don't know much about SBU's match but thats the first place to look. Being able to not worry about any of that is a huge stress relief. On the flipside, 200k is the average for med students right now, and going to harvard you will likely be able to pay it off later on.

Personally, not having to worry about debt and being near family/support system sways me slightly to SBU. Also, where would you likely be happier? NOT taking into account prestige but purely based of fit and location?

 

[longhaul3]

If you want to do ortho and go to Stony Brook, you will be kicking yourself 4 years from now when you meet the Harvard ortho applicants on the interview trail. Or maybe 5, because you decide you need to take a research year to compete with them. There's your $400k.

 

[MDapplicant578124]

I would take stony brook without question if I’m literally getting paid to go there. Plus it’s right near your support system which you can’t put a price on. If you see people on the match list matching into competitive specialties then you can too. If there’s no one matching into anything competitive that would be cause for alarm (I haven’t seen this schools list myself)

There’s a case for going to Harvard if you’re dead set on academic medicine at a prestigious institution for your career. If you won’t be happy without working at Harvard or Columbia etc then go to Harvard.

Prestige does make a difference I’m not denying that, but remember SDN 100% overvalues that difference.

 

[wagonwheel23]

Harvard hands down. This isn't just a prestige choice as others have suggested. HMS is a total powerhouse medical school and will likely be a better educational experience. Also, their match list is completely insane and a P/F curriculum is priceless. I am also a huge proponent of getting out of your comfort zone.

 

[Grapesurgery]

I second the idea that that Harvard and its incomparable opportunities are worth it. I was nominated for the same fellowship at Stony (at least 99% sure it’s the same one, haha) and withdrew my A from stony when facing a similar, but not totally identical, situation. Wanted as much doors open as possible for me going forward, within reason, of course. Is a 400k+ debt worth it? Maybe not. Around 200k, while still a lot, is still within the average medical debt and though it’s less comfortable, the debt will be within your financial means in the future.

 

[Yhwach]

Harvard. 200k is cheap for a private med school especially Harvard

 

[billybean]

200k is nothing. Finish residency, spend 1-2yrs making $500k+ in a rural area, and leave debt-free with an M.D. from Harvard. I know countless people who've done something very similar.

 

[Klyx]

As others have mentioned, it's not just about the prestige. Going to Harvard means less grade-related stress during medical school and a much easier time getting interviews during the residency application cycle. This is especially true now that Step 1 will likely be P/F by the time you apply.

 

[Medicine Mamba]

This is a case where the prestige difference is too much to pass on. Unless you know 100% you want to be a pcp, which is not the case.

 

[proudofmykids]

This is a case where the prestige difference is too much to pass on. Unless you know 100% you want to be a pcp, which is not the case.

Curious, What price would you put on it? I believe you have written you get no need-based aid, would you choose Kaiser with full COA covered, or Cornell with nearly $400k loans with surgical interests? I say Kaiser instead of SMC, because Kaiser will have pilfered other T10 students more so than SMC.

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

Harvard

 

[Mad Jack]

Harvard, period. Don't be silly.

 

[Mad Jack]

I would take stony brook without question if I’m literally getting paid to go there. Plus it’s right near your support system which you can’t put a price on. If you see people on the match list matching into competitive specialties then you can too. If there’s no one matching into anything competitive that would be cause for alarm (I haven’t seen this schools list myself)

There’s a case for going to Harvard if you’re dead set on academic medicine at a prestigious institution for your career. If you won’t be happy without working at Harvard or Columbia etc then go to Harvard.

Prestige does make a difference I’m not denying that, but remember SDN 100% overvalues that difference.

Look dude, the difference between Harvard and Stony Brook if I were to spitball it is 50% the difference between a random MD school and an old DO school. It's huge. If you're average at Harvard, no specialty is off limits unless you have red flags. If you're average at Stony Brook, well, you're an average MD student.

 

[tryaway]

I had a similar offer when I was accepted to med school (2015).
If I can go back, I would have gone to the better school and turn down the full ride.

You will regret not choosing Harvard. You can’t cheap out in certain areas that will impact the rest of your life.

Especially with step 1 becoming pass/fail. Name of school will be more important now

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

If it was like a top 10 vs Harvard or even a top 20 vs Harvard I’d say take the money, but this isnt the case. You are wanting a surgical specialty and Harvard will give you a map and say “pick where you want to go”

 

[MDapplicant578124]

I guess Harvard it is lol

I apologize for my poor advice

 

[enchantments]

If you see people on the match list matching into competitive specialties then you can too. If there’s no one matching into anything competitive that would be cause for alarm (I haven’t seen this schools list myself)

I doubt OP needs any more convincing at this point, but this is a pretty bad way to look at the opportunities a school provides. Every DO school matches a few into competitive specialties like ortho, but we all know that it's incredibly unlikely to match those fields as a DO.

Honestly, you could close your eyes and pick a random spot on the HMS match list. You're basically guaranteed to find that whoever you landed on matched within the top 3 programs for their specialty, if not the very best. Sure 200k is a lot of money, but if the choice of school provides significant assistance in helping you match a specialty with a much higher earning potential, that's easily worth it imo.

 

[proudofmykids]

Here is SCM match list. They still match into competitive specialties, just not with the frequency to the top programs as HSM. Earnings would be comparable no matter where you attend as a board certified practicing physician.

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/attachments/stony-brook-match-list-anonymous-pdf.299304/

 

[enchantments]

Earnings would be comparable no matter where you attend as a practicing physician.

That's a given. What I (as well as many others in this thread) am saying is that attending the most prestigious medical school in the country (if not the world) will make it far easier to match into those specialties in the first place.

 

[proudofmykids]

That's a given. What I (as well as many others in this thread) am saying is that attending the most prestigious medical school in the country (if not the world) will make it far easier to match into those specialties in the first place.

It seems that all the competitive specialties had matches on the list, indicating it would not limit choice.

Many premeds don’t understand the magnitude of graduating with $400k in loans. This means graduating with about $480k debt. And even with REPAYER, during residency, you still wouldn’t even be paying all owed interest. So say you then finish residency with $500k. If you created an savings plan with the payments that would not exist with Debt free choice, you would have $666k after ten years.stop the payments and you’ll accrue earned interest leading to about $2.5M extra after 25 years post residency. Retire earlier and enjoy life having done the same specialty as you would have as going to HMS.

 

[gulli_97]

It seems that all the competitive specialties had matches on the list, indicating it would not limit choice.

Many premeds don’t understand the magnitude of graduating with $400k in loans. This means graduating with about $480k debt. And even with REPAYER, during residency, you still wouldn’t even be paying all owed interest. So say you then finish residency with $500k. If you created an savings plan with the payments that would not exist with Debt free choice, you would have $666k after ten years.stop the payments and you’ll accrue earned interest leading to about $2.5M extra after 25 years post residency. Retire earlier and enjoy life having done the same specialty as you would have as going to HMS.

OP said they'll be taking out about 200k loans, which is avg for most folks and damn good for Harvard. Go Harvurddd OP

 

[Mad Jack]

It seems that all the competitive specialties had matches on the list, indicating it would not limit choice.

Many premeds don’t understand the magnitude of graduating with $400k in loans. This means graduating with about $480k debt. And even with REPAYER, during residency, you still wouldn’t even be paying all owed interest. So say you then finish residency with $500k. If you created an savings plan with the payments that would not exist with Debt free choice, you would have $666k after ten years.stop the payments and you’ll accrue earned interest leading to about $2.5M extra after 25 years post residency. Retire earlier and enjoy life having done the same specialty as you would have as going to HMS.

An average student at Harvard can match specialties that would take 20+ points higher on the Steps to match if you go to a less prestigious school. You can land ortho or derm with scores in the 230s coming out of there without an issue. With the move to P/F steps, school prestige will become even more important for matching and you won't be able to make up for going to a lesser school with better board scores.

Go to Harvard, it is the only correct decision.

 

[Mad Jack]

It seems that all the competitive specialties had matches on the list, indicating it would not limit choice.

Many premeds don’t understand the magnitude of graduating with $400k in loans. This means graduating with about $480k debt. And even with REPAYER, during residency, you still wouldn’t even be paying all owed interest. So say you then finish residency with $500k. If you created an savings plan with the payments that would not exist with Debt free choice, you would have $666k after ten years.stop the payments and you’ll accrue earned interest leading to about $2.5M extra after 25 years post residency. Retire earlier and enjoy life having done the same specialty as you would have as going to HMS.

Many premeds underestimate the effect of not matching your preferred specialty and just how hard it is to land competitive specialties in the match. Yeah, if you come out of Harvard doing ortho you'll make the same as a guy coming out of, say, UCONN doing ortho, but your chances of getting into ortho in the first place might be 90% coming out of harvard and 45% coming out of UCONN. You're investing in a substantially greater chance of getting to live the life you want to live by going to Harvard.

 

[Crassus]

Many premeds underestimate the effect of not matching your preferred specialty and just how hard it is to land competitive specialties in the match. Yeah, if you come out of Harvard doing ortho you'll make the same as a guy coming out of, say, UCONN doing ortho, but your chances of getting into ortho in the first place might be 90% coming out of harvard and 45% coming out of UCONN. You're investing in a substantially greater chance of getting to live the life you want to live by going to Harvard.

Would the same advice still apply if OP was choosing between Harvard and a full-ride at a T20?

 

[gulli_97]

Would the same advice still apply if OP was choosing between Harvard and a full-ride at a T20?

No, there's a magnitude of difference greater in this situation IMO.

 

[Mad Jack]

Would the same advice still apply if OP was choosing between Harvard and a full-ride at a T20?

It would be very school-by-school even at that level, you can't just use meaningless tiers

 

[Crassus]

It would be very school-by-school even at that level, you can't just use meaningless tiers

Fair enough. Let's say it was between Harvard and NYU. Let's also assume that in such a situation, one has an interest in academic medicine but isn't necessarily dead-set on a particular specialty/field.

Obviously, Harvard has a much greater reputation and will make it easier to match at top-tier residencies, but do you think it would be worth it for the full sticker price versus NYU?

 

[Mad Jack]

Fair enough. Let's say it was between Harvard and NYU. Let's also assume that in such a situation, one has an interest in academic medicine but isn't necessarily dead-set on a particular specialty/field.

Obviously, Harvard has a much greater reputation and will make it easier to match at top-tier residencies, but do you think it would be worth it for the full sticker price versus NYU?

I'd say if it was free vs 200k, NYU would probably be worth it unless you had very specific interests (the highest tiers of top specialty academic medicine, prestigious private practice psychiatry, etc) where Harvard could grant you enough of an edge to be worthwhile (in my opinion). While no one will ever look down on you for having a NYU degree and many will certainly look up to you, there's certain circles, both inside medicine and outside of it, where the Harvard name is worth its weight in gold.

 

[Californiacation]

If you go with SUNY, when you're matching you will probably wish you went to Harvard.
If you go with Harvard, loan repayments eating 1/4 of your paycheck when you're looking for other things like mortgage, car, family etc. will make you wish you went to SUNY.

Hurt earlier or hurt later

 

[asdfwelldoit]

Harvard and its not even close. Step 1 is pass/fail. Boston/Cambridge will get you out of your comfort zone. Do it, dw about your loans.

 

[bonedoc5576]

Congrats on your opportunities. One of the rare times when I would advocate paying for the name