Harvard vs. UCSD... seriuosly

[drizzt3117]

I think there are valid reasons to go to UCSD over HMS, but they are personal ones, not professional ones, and there's nothing wrong with going to a school for personal reasons. Finances might play a role as well but all else equal I don't think there is a big difference in COA unless the OP gets a scholarship from one of the schools.

That all aside, I think in terms of professional reasons, there's not much comparison no matter where the OP wants to do residency. I could elaborate but I don't think I really have to.

Regarding the points I made in my first paragraph, I don't think that these factors shouldn't necessarily outweigh the professional factors. Putting yourself in the best situation to succeed is what's going to ensure success, and it's certainly possible that UCSD will give them a better chance to succeed, that, however, as I said before, is a decision they need to make on their own.

To put things in a little bit of perspective, I had to make a similar decision during my cycle. I chose to go to the ~top 25 state school over the top 5 private school for family and financial reasons, but I wasn't under any illusions that I wouldn't face any professional challenges for that decision. I've been a little lucky in that my state school happens to be one of the very top schools in the country in my specialty of choice, and I've been fortunate enough to get an amazing research/clinical mentor in that field. I still feel like I need to do more and be better in other areas (I.e. Step) to be as competitive in my very competitive field of interest than were I at the school I chose not to attend.

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[ScronCron]

I think there are valid reasons to go to UCSD over HMS, but they are personal ones, not professional ones, and there's nothing wrong with going to a school for personal reasons. Finances might play a role as well but all else equal I don't think there is a big difference in COA unless the OP gets a scholarship from one of the schools.

That all aside, I think in terms of professional reasons, there's not much comparison no matter where the OP wants to do residency. I could elaborate but I don't think I really have to.

Regarding the points I made in my first paragraph, I don't think that these factors shouldn't necessarily outweigh the professional factors. Putting yourself in the best situation to succeed is what's going to ensure success, and it's certainly possible that UCSD will give them a better chance to succeed, that, however, as I said before, is a decision they need to make on their own.

To put things in a little bit of perspective, I had to make a similar decision during my cycle. I chose to go to the ~top 25 state school over the top 5 private school for family and financial reasons, but I wasn't under any illusions that I wouldn't face any professional challenges for that decision. I've been a little lucky in that my state school happens to be one of the very top schools in the country in my specialty of choice, and I've been fortunate enough to get an amazing research/clinical mentor in that field. I still feel like I need to do more and be better in other areas (I.e. Step) to be as competitive in my very competitive field of interest than were I at the school I chose not to attend.

Well, I disagree that the only reasons to go to UCSD would be personal. Going to UCSD would be a better choice for buildling a larger professional network within California during medical school, which is clearly a professional reason. You'll work with and get to know faculty at UCSD during medical school. About 75% of your classmates will do residency and eventually practice in California. Coming from Harvard, your network in California won't be as large right out of medical school. It will be stronger, but it will be spread out more across the country.

I agree with your points about competitiveness and residency matching. If you have a UCSD candidate rated equal to a Harvard candidate, I don't doubt that the Harvard candidate would be chosen. That being said, a lot of people are saying that it's easier to match in California from UCSD, but I believe the answer is both yes and no. It MIGHT be easier to match to a UCSD residency but only because you can get to know residency directors there and show them you're great while doing your home rotations (that is, if you are actually great). I know someone at NYU who only applied to NYU med center for residency because he got to know the residency director and the residency director wanted him. There was no need to apply anywhere else.

For non-UCSD affiliated residency programs, I believe Harvard students have an advantage coming from a more competitive program. And Harvard students can still level the playing field more at UCSD simply by doing an away rotation or making connections with residency directors there.

 

[JoshuaR]

Harvard is the "better" school. If, for personal reasons you like ucsd better, do it and don't worry. Hms may be better for matching, but as I said earlier, most hms people stay east coast so you don't have to worry about competing with them for ca because fewer apply. That said, ucsd gives no advantage for matching in ca, outside of programs at ucsd as just mentioned in the post above mine. Personally I'd choose Harvard.

 

[d1ony5u5]

whatever school is "better" argument will last forever. IMO, its not nearly as important as other considerations such as location, family, $ etc. public schools often have extra factors that most private schools can't really offer, like fun sports teams to watch, larger student bodies, more school spirit etc.

and another point, and i think this goes unsaid, no one out here can really compare medical schools. after all, you only go to one. maybe harvard really is the best, but maybe not for everyone. you and I will never know that because we can only go to one school. its hard to compare orange juice from apple juice if you're only allowed to drink orange juice.

No, yes and definitely no, in case the OP wondered about this.

UCSD is notorious among the UC's for having weak athletics and for having some of the worst school spirit.

 

[Bakfiets]

id also vote UCSD. i absolutely love their investment into the whole free clinic setup they have. its truly outstanding. on top of that, the laid back atmosphere of the west coast seems great for a medical education.

I'd second that and include the St. Vincent de Paul/UCSD clinic as well... They have about 5 residency programs (different specialties) and tons of students rotating through a clinic that's basically embedded in a huge homeless shelter.

 

[lord_jeebus]

I hope I'm not too late to this thread.

I went to UCSD and am now a satisfied resident there. It is a great institution and I am proud to be a part of it. My training has been very strong at all stages. When I was an intern at another institution, I thought that the other UCSD grads (and myself) outperformed almost everyone there.

Despite this, go to Harvard, unless you have a strong financial incentive to choose UCSD. It's not a "golden ticket," but it's pretty close.

 

[kierkegaard]

Thanks everyone for all your input!

I hope I'm not too late to this thread.

I went to UCSD and am now a satisfied resident there. It is a great institution and I am proud to be a part of it. My training has been very strong at all stages. When I was an intern at another institution, I thought that the other UCSD grads (and myself) outperformed almost everyone there.

Despite this, go to Harvard, unless you have a strong financial incentive to choose UCSD. It's not a "golden ticket," but it's pretty close.

This means a lot coming from a UCSD SOM grad. Would you care to elaborate a little more? A few people have told me going to HMS would give me an edge in residency applications which is hard to ignore.

I have no qualms about getting a great education at either UCSD or HMS, and honestly loved them both at interview, so I know this isn't comparing mediocrity to med school heaven; more like great school to great school with a little something extra...

 

[JasonE]

I hope I'm not too late to this thread.

I went to UCSD and am now a satisfied resident there. It is a great institution and I am proud to be a part of it. My training has been very strong at all stages. When I was an intern at another institution, I thought that the other UCSD grads (and myself) outperformed almost everyone there.

Despite this, go to Harvard, unless you have a strong financial incentive to choose UCSD. It's not a "golden ticket," but it's pretty close.

i agree this is a very strong statement. what do you mean "golden ticket". if you mean that you can get any residency you want, can you put some type of rough quantitative measure on it? if going to harvard say increased your chances of getting the best residency by 10%, then id say thats not so much. if its like 80% then yea.

 

[lord_jeebus]

D'oh...I just wrote a long reply to this post and lost it. I'm sorry if this is a bit brief but I don't have the strength to retype the whole thing.

I know several HMS grads and students. Although reputation is not a huge factor in the match, it is if your diploma says "Harvard." Residency directors want to be able to say they have residents from the big H. This is particularly advantageous if you are not near the top of your class.

UCSD does well in the match but not as well as Harvard. The difference is particularly profound for those in the bottom half of the class. I don't think it's easier to be in the top 1/2 of UCSD than that of Harvard. I'd say that about 1/3 - 1/2 of HMS grads match at programs that are only available to UCSD's rockstars (top 5-10%), and the rest mostly match at programs only available to the top 1/3 at UCSD. I think UCSD is comparable to the other "top 20" and even most "top 10" schools but Harvard is in another category.

Some argue that USMLE is a great equalizer but I had the highest Step I (maybe also Step II) score in my class and did not get interviews at some programs in a moderately competitive specialty (anesthesiology).

I'm happy that you liked UCSD so much, and do hope that you come here as I'm sure you would be a great asset to us, but I don't think it's the best choice unless you have a very clear reason to choose it over Harvard.

 

[FluffyRabbit]

D'oh...I just wrote a long reply to this post and lost it. I'm sorry if this is a bit brief but I don't have the strength to retype the whole thing.

I know several HMS grads and students. Although reputation is not a huge factor in the match, it is if your diploma says "Harvard." Residency directors want to be able to say they have residents from the big H. This is particularly advantageous if you are not near the top of your class.

UCSD does well in the match but not as well as Harvard. The difference is particularly profound for those in the bottom half of the class. I don't think it's easier to be in the top 1/2 of UCSD than that of Harvard. I'd say that about 1/3 - 1/2 of HMS grads match at programs that are only available to UCSD's rockstars (top 5-10%), and the rest mostly match at programs only available to the top 1/3 at UCSD. I think UCSD is comparable to the other "top 20" and even most "top 10" schools but Harvard is in another category.

Some argue that USMLE is a great equalizer but I had the highest Step I (maybe also Step II) score in my class and did not get interviews at some programs in a moderately competitive specialty (anesthesiology).

I'm happy that you liked UCSD so much, and do hope that you come here as I'm sure you would be a great asset to us, but I don't think it's the best choice unless you have a very clear reason to choose it over Harvard.

Wow, that's just amazing. If it's something unique to Harvard, would you advise the OP to go to UCSD over say Penn or WashU, the highest ranked schools that happen to not start with 'H' on the grounds that the difference in prestige is likely to make little difference during residency matching?

 

[lord_jeebus]

I chose UCSD over Wash U, as did many people in my class. I see Wash U and UCSD in the same tier of prestige in the match (obviously regional factors will skew things) despite what US News and World Report thinks. I can tell you that my residency program's selection committee isn't using a magazine to form its biases on what schools wow them. I'll admit I don't know much about Penn - I've never met someone who went there, seen their match list, or been there in person.

The only schools I would have chosen over UCSD (taking into account all factors including location and cost as well as prestige) would have been

Harvard
Stanford
UCSF
maybe Hopkins

 

[Appless]

D'oh...I just wrote a long reply to this post and lost it. I'm sorry if this is a bit brief but I don't have the strength to retype the whole thing.

I know several HMS grads and students. Although reputation is not a huge factor in the match, it is if your diploma says "Harvard." Residency directors want to be able to say they have residents from the big H. This is particularly advantageous if you are not near the top of your class.

UCSD does well in the match but not as well as Harvard. The difference is particularly profound for those in the bottom half of the class. I don't think it's easier to be in the top 1/2 of UCSD than that of Harvard. I'd say that about 1/3 - 1/2 of HMS grads match at programs that are only available to UCSD's rockstars (top 5-10%), and the rest mostly match at programs only available to the top 1/3 at UCSD. I think UCSD is comparable to the other "top 20" and even most "top 10" schools but Harvard is in another category.

Some argue that USMLE is a great equalizer but I had the highest Step I (maybe also Step II) score in my class and did not get interviews at some programs in a moderately competitive specialty (anesthesiology).

I'm happy that you liked UCSD so much, and do hope that you come here as I'm sure you would be a great asset to us, but I don't think it's the best choice unless you have a very clear reason to choose it over Harvard.

wow thats pretty amazing..i never really thought of it like that. So would you say its like that for other schools? Meaning outside of UCSF, UCLA and UCSD are probably equal in terms of prestige and how directors feel about those students (correct me if im wrong). So would coming from a "lower" UC such as UCI or UCD matter in terms of residency apps in the same way? Meaning like is there a huge difference in opportunities between grads from UCLA/SD when compared to UCI/UCD? Or in the end is it basically a wash between these schools and what you described is something unique to harvard only?

 

[kierkegaard]

I'm happy that you liked UCSD so much, and do hope that you come here as I'm sure you would be a great asset to us, but I don't think it's the best choice unless you have a very clear reason to choose it over Harvard.

Thanks for the honest input, it will be really useful in weighing my options.

 

[drizzt3117]

wow thats pretty amazing..i never really thought of it like that. So would you say its like that for other schools? Meaning outside of UCSF, UCLA and UCSD are probably equal in terms of prestige and how directors feel about those students (correct me if im wrong). So would coming from a "lower" UC such as UCI or UCD matter in terms of residency apps in the same way? Meaning like is there a huge difference in opportunities between grads from UCLA/SD when compared to UCI/UCD? Or in the end is it basically a wash between these schools and what you described is something unique to harvard only?

There's way too many factors to make this such a cut/dried situation, but in general, UCLA and UCSD are research powerhouses, UCI and UCD (especially UCD) not so much, so if you're talking about going into research-heavy academic medicine programs, there's going to be some level of difference. Ultimately people worry about this way too much. Putting yourself in a situation where you're going to be comfortable and succeed is much more important than worrying about what program directors in some field that you might consider applying to in four years is going to think. There's very few circumstances in which people know exactly what they're going to go into and which programs they're going to target before they start med school.

 

[lord_jeebus]

wow thats pretty amazing..i never really thought of it like that. So would you say its like that for other schools? Meaning outside of UCSF, UCLA and UCSD are probably equal in terms of prestige and how directors feel about those students (correct me if im wrong). So would coming from a "lower" UC such as UCI or UCD matter in terms of residency apps in the same way? Meaning like is there a huge difference in opportunities between grads from UCLA/SD when compared to UCI/UCD? Or in the end is it basically a wash between these schools and what you described is something unique to harvard only?

I was an intern at UCI. I think there is an advantage to coming from UCSD over UCI but that the difference between Harvard and UCSD is more profound. A few of my best students from that year just matched at some very competitive programs. On the other hand, I have a friend who chose UCI over UCSD and regrets it as he thinks he would have matched at a preferred program had he gone to UCSD instead (I don't know if that's true but it's his opinion).

Also consider that the UCSD residency program in almost all fields is superior to that of Irvine and Davis, and UCSD students get some sort of insider edge when applying to almost all of them.

Finally, I think the quality of education at UCSD is significantly better than at UCI, but unless someone here is considering choosing UCI over UCSD, I'll save that discussion for another day.

 

[FluffyRabbit]

I was an intern at UCI. I think there is an advantage to coming from UCSD over UCI but that the difference between Harvard and UCSD is more profound. A few of my best students from that year just matched at some very competitive programs. On the other hand, I have a friend who chose UCI over UCSD and regrets it as he thinks he would have matched at a preferred program had he gone to UCSD instead (I don't know if that's true but it's his opinion).

Also consider that the UCSD residency program in almost all fields is superior to that of Irvine and Davis, and UCSD students get some sort of insider edge when applying to almost all of them.

Finally, I think the quality of education at UCSD is significantly better than at UCI, but unless someone here is considering choosing UCI over UCSD, I'll save that discussion for another day.

That just disturbs me, since with everyone saying that the top 10/15/20/whatever schools are functionally identical, I would expect it to be the other way around. I was hoping the obsession with Harvard to be more a thing among premeds rather than PDs...

 

[JasonE]

That just disturbs me, since with everyone saying that the top 10/15/20/whatever schools are functionally identical, I would expect it to be the other way around. I was hoping the obsession with Harvard to be more a thing among premeds rather than PDs...

dont worry about it man. who knows how to quantify the difference and who cares. just go and be happy. in this world, regardless of whatever you have, someone will always have something better, so you might as well work hard and be happy

 

[drizzt3117]

That just disturbs me, since with everyone saying that the top 10/15/20/whatever schools are functionally identical, I would expect it to be the other way around. I was hoping the obsession with Harvard to be more a thing among premeds rather than PDs...

It's not about prestige, it's about screening. PDs know that Harvard has it's pick of premeds, so a lot of the screening for potential is done for them between the school and boards. Then they interview to screen them for being a dbag, and voilà.

 

[Appless]

I was an intern at UCI. I think there is an advantage to coming from UCSD over UCI but that the difference between Harvard and UCSD is more profound. A few of my best students from that year just matched at some very competitive programs. On the other hand, I have a friend who chose UCI over UCSD and regrets it as he thinks he would have matched at a preferred program had he gone to UCSD instead (I don't know if that's true but it's his opinion).

Also consider that the UCSD residency program in almost all fields is superior to that of Irvine and Davis, and UCSD students get some sort of insider edge when applying to almost all of them.

Finally, I think the quality of education at UCSD is significantly better than at UCI, but unless someone here is considering choosing UCI over UCSD, I'll save that discussion for another day.

If you have the time id like to hear why it is that UCSD is better then UCI persay. You can always pm it too if you didnt want to post it here and potentially start something lol . I know in the end success is up to me blah blah and the whole it doesnt matter where you go sdn mantra...but still im curious. Im currently in at a few OOS schools but id most likely want to stay in cali barring a massive scholarship or something. Im in at UC davis and WL at UCLA and UCI. If i had to base my decision id probably go UCLA>UCD>>>>UCI. But i really loved davis and in some ways want to go there too. But do you think that going to UCLA (god willing i get in off the WL) would be worth going to over davis? UCI is kinda meh...im debating there for family reasons but theres just so much negativity about uci ive seen and witnessed after spending a lot of time there...seems like the location is the only reason people go sometimes. what are your opinions on those 3? I mean is the difference between LA and these others just that great that it will be worth it no matter what?

 

[FluffyRabbit]

dont worry about it man. who knows how to quantify the difference and who cares. just go and be happy. in this world, regardless of whatever you have, someone will always have something better, so you might as well work hard and be happy

Heh, thanks. I'm not really worried about it, since I like the school I've got into and will be happy there, and it is reputable enough that it's really up to me from this point on. It was just kind of a surprise to see that PDs pay that much attention to Harvard degrees. I guess the OP should seriously consider going there since he has that option.

It's not about prestige, it's about screening. PDs know that Harvard has it's pick of premeds, so a lot of the screening for potential is done for them between the school and boards. Then they interview to screen them for being a dbag, and voilà.

It's essentially their way of taking undergraduate performance into account during the match. ^^

 

[lord_jeebus]

I should clarify that it's not an "obsession" but something they are impressed by. On our rank list, many people from schools outside the USNEWS Top 50 ranked higher than those from the biggest names. (these people tended to have Step I and II > 250, ranked near the top of their class, and interviewed well)

 

[lord_jeebus]

If you have the time id like to hear why it is that UCSD is better then UCI persay. You can always pm it too if you didnt want to post it here and potentially start something lol . I know in the end success is up to me blah blah and the whole it doesnt matter where you go sdn mantra...but still im curious. Im currently in at a few OOS schools but id most likely want to stay in cali barring a massive scholarship or something. Im in at UC davis and WL at UCLA and UCI. If i had to base my decision id probably go UCLA>UCD>>>>UCI. But i really loved davis and in some ways want to go there too. But do you think that going to UCLA (god willing i get in off the WL) would be worth going to over davis? UCI is kinda meh...im debating there for family reasons but theres just so much negativity about uci ive seen and witnessed after spending a lot of time there...seems like the location is the only reason people go sometimes. what are your opinions on those 3? I mean is the difference between LA and these others just that great that it will be worth it no matter what?

UCLA is a great school. I don't know much about Davis.