has anyone dropped a d.o. med school spot and reapplied for m.d. schools?

[ULTRA nerves]

I have applied to both DO and MD schools this year and might be offered a spot in DO school only. (I am waiting to hear back from interviews and I think that I might have a chance at a DO school.) When I was submitting my applications to schools, I really felt comfortable about becoming an osteopathic physician. I have talked with D.O.s and other osteopathic med students who seemed very satisfied with decisions that they have made. Now that my family members do not seem so supportive of what may happen, and I am starting to have doubts. Do allopathic residency programs really look down on osteopathic physicians? I always thought that it is possible to work head-to-head with other allopathic physicians as an osteopathic physician. Am I in denial? or rationalizing too much? Now, I am not so sure anymore. Confused.

What do you guys think?
I would really appreciate your input.
Thanks.

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[DrVanNostran]

You pose excellent questions, but the only answer I can give you is that you should be comfortable with your decision.

And, I have dropped a DO acceptance, It just my personaly preference to go to an Allopathic school

 

[Underachievment]

I have applied to both DO and MD schools this year and might be offered a spot in DO school only. (I am waiting to hear back from interviews and I think that I might have a chance at a DO school.) When I was submitting my applications to schools, I really felt comfortable about becoming an osteopathic physician. I have talked with D.O.s and other osteopathic med students who seemed very satisfied with decisions that they have made. Now that my family members do not seem so supportive of what may happen, and I am starting to have doubts. Do allopathic residency programs really look down on osteopathic physicians? I always thought that it is possible to work head-to-head with other allopathic physicians as an osteopathic physician. Am I in denial? or rationalizing too much? Now, I am not so sure anymore. Confused.

What do you guys think?
I would really appreciate your input.
Thanks.

Listening to others may make you a nonphysician as well. Part of the 'bias' is answered by your own hesitancy.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

I have applied to both DO and MD schools this year and might be offered a spot in DO school only. (I am waiting to hear back from interviews and I think that I might have a chance at a DO school.) When I was submitting my applications to schools, I really felt comfortable about becoming an osteopathic physician. I have talked with D.O.s and other osteopathic med students who seemed very satisfied with decisions that they have made. Now that my family members do not seem so supportive of what may happen, and I am starting to have doubts. Do allopathic residency programs really look down on osteopathic physicians? I always thought that it is possible to work head-to-head with other allopathic physicians as an osteopathic physician. Am I in denial? or rationalizing too much? Now, I am not so sure anymore. Confused.

What do you guys think?
I would really appreciate your input.
Thanks.

One kid in my class did. He gets to start all over again at MCW.


Not worth it in my opinion, but he certainly has a better shot at ACGME surgical residencies then I do, which is what we both want to do.


I plan to keep my gpa at 90+ and rock the boards, but I have always somewhat liked being the underdog.

My family didnt know what a DO was at first and to be truthful I was skeptical too. I did my research and my mom tells people that Im at a DO school and some of the responses she gets (positive) are incredibly encouraging.

If you don't think you can live with the DO behind your name, don't waste the spot.

 

[NonTradMed]

I have applied to both DO and MD schools this year and might be offered a spot in DO school only. (I am waiting to hear back from interviews and I think that I might have a chance at a DO school.) When I was submitting my applications to schools, I really felt comfortable about becoming an osteopathic physician. I have talked with D.O.s and other osteopathic med students who seemed very satisfied with decisions that they have made. Now that my family members do not seem so supportive of what may happen, and I am starting to have doubts. Do allopathic residency programs really look down on osteopathic physicians? I always thought that it is possible to work head-to-head with other allopathic physicians as an osteopathic physician. Am I in denial? or rationalizing too much? Now, I am not so sure anymore. Confused.

What do you guys think?
I would really appreciate your input.
Thanks.

MD schools will give you an edge for competitive and surgical MD residencies over DO schools, I have also heard (via the rumour mill on SDN) that subspeciality in some fields may be off limits/hard to get for DOs, but no way to verify that.

But other than that....I don't think it makes that much of a difference. Personally, my first priority is to stay in the US for med school. I say reapply to MD only for these reasons:

1. You don't want DO after your name.
2. You want to do ultracompetitive residencies and/or are tilting in that direction and/or want to maximize your options there.
3. You have borderline grades for MD school

If you answered two out of the three above, then reapply, otherwise, I would strongly suggest taking your DO school and running with it. Your patients aren't going to care DO or MD, why should you?

 

[emtji]

take the bird in the hand. seriously. don't listen to stupid people. take the DO spot.

- a current 3rd year MD student

 

[riceman04]

I have applied to both DO and MD schools this year and might be offered a spot in DO school only. (I am waiting to hear back from interviews and I think that I might have a chance at a DO school.) When I was submitting my applications to schools, I really felt comfortable about becoming an osteopathic physician. I have talked with D.O.s and other osteopathic med students who seemed very satisfied with decisions that they have made. Now that my family members do not seem so supportive of what may happen, and I am starting to have doubts. Do allopathic residency programs really look down on osteopathic physicians? I always thought that it is possible to work head-to-head with other allopathic physicians as an osteopathic physician. Am I in denial? or rationalizing too much? Now, I am not so sure anymore. Confused.

What do you guys think?
I would really appreciate your input.
Thanks.

Wait wait wait...are you thinking about making a specific decision to satify your family?

 

[BobBarker]

Don't be vain. Take the DO spot. Imagine how you would feel if you failed to make it into a MD spot in the 2nd year of applying. For every year you do not go to medical school you are giving up atleast 150K in salary. Remember that.

 

[yanky5]

I took the DO spot. I felt grateful to the DO school for being fair and accepting me since I felt that I should have been accepted at all the MD schools I applied to (3.73 GPA 31 MCAT Biochem). You are putting yourself in a difficult situation by reapplying since you are wasting a year and may not get accepted anyways. Take the DO spot since I found out that the residencies in my school is 90% as good as the MD residencies. (Plus, if u got rejected, u are not the smartest apple in the school and would not get the cool surgical residencies anywas u idiot)

 

[sga814]

Yes, take the DO spot. However, be aware that it IS harder for a DO to obtain an ALLOPATHIC residency. I could give you the link to the NRMP chart, but I am too lazy to right now- long story short- the more competitive a residency, the fewer DO/FMG's are accepted (although it is MUCH better to be a DO than FMG in terms of chances for getting an Allopathic residency).

Look at it this way though- it is IMPOSSIBLE for an MD to get a DO residency. And most "allopathic" fields are represented in the DO match.

All of this from someone who has done his research (was accepted to 5 DO schools). I am credible. Thank you.

 

[ULTRA nerves]

Wait wait wait...are you thinking about making a specific decision to satify your family?

I hope that I did not give all of you a wrong impression from my previous post. Am I thinking about making a decision to satisfy my family?...hmmm probably not. When I applied to the DO schools, I did a ton of research myself. Yes, it will be difficult to get good residencies and might even have to deal with traditional allopathics who are bias toward osteopathic medicine. I am actually okay with all of that because if I put in the hardwork during med school, I believe that I can be at my best in becoming a good physician, no matter where I go. That is all it matters to me anyways. However, it came as a huge disappointment to me when my highly educated family member tried to pursuade me to take the year off and try out for the caribbean schools. I was actually kind of frustrated...because her argument was based on a MD whom she had a conversation about osteopathic medicine. The physician has been involved with various residency programs in the east coast. Her opposition was strong (rather the physician's ), and I also know that she spoke to me about it because she also was concerned. So I was just flat-out frustrated with the entire situation because I did not want to put a blame on her. I gave some careful thoughts, but my interest in DO schools and in osteopathic medicine stays the same. (I would go to the DO school.) When I posted my previous message, I was just wondering if anyone else has been in similar situation. I did not want to leave without any stones unturn (I think that I owe at least that for her who spoke her mind with a purpose of helping me). I am very well aware that this kind of prejudice is something I need to overcome if I decide to become a DO, but experiencing it from my own family member was not so pleasant...and I will face it again if I have to, I just need to be a little stronger.

Thanks for your posts and I do appreciate your opinion.

 

[Raven Feather]

DO discrimination is not as pervasive as it used to be years ago. I think your mom needs to talk to a variety of physicians, MD and DOs, particularly the younger ones if she is soo concerned about what seems to be the initials behind your name.

 

[USArmyDoc]

I hope that I did not give all of you a wrong impression from my previous post. Am I thinking about making a decision to satisfy my family?...hmmm probably not. When I applied to the DO schools, I did a ton of research myself. Yes, it will be difficult to get good residencies and might even have to deal with traditional allopathics who are bias toward osteopathic medicine. I am actually okay with all of that because if I put in the hardwork during med school, I believe that I can be at my best in becoming a good physician, no matter where I go. That is all it matters to me anyways. However, it came as a huge disappointment to me when my highly educated family member tried to pursuade me to take the year off and try out for the caribbean schools. I was actually kind of frustrated...because her argument was based on a MD whom she had a conversation about osteopathic medicine. The physician has been involved with various residency programs in the east coast. Her opposition was strong (rather the physician's ), and I also know that she spoke to me about it because she also was concerned. So I was just flat-out frustrated with the entire situation because I did not want to put a blame on her. I gave some careful thoughts, but my interest in DO schools and in osteopathic medicine stays the same. (I would go to the DO school.) When I posted my previous message, I was just wondering if anyone else has been in similar situation. I did not want to leave without any stones unturn (I think that I owe at least that for her who spoke her mind with a purpose of helping me). I am very well aware that this kind of prejudice is something I need to overcome if I decide to become a DO, but experiencing it from my own family member was not so pleasant...and I will face it again if I have to, I just need to be a little stronger.

Thanks for your posts and I do appreciate your opinion.

It is not as difficult as SDN makes it sound. I am not talking out of my ass, I come a medical family, both MD's and DO's. They all say once you are out, all that stuff goes out the window and you are judged on your competency. I keep hearing this from other people as well.

 

[Jaynine]

People will always discourage you from things that they either don't know about or things that aren't as widely accepted because they are afraid of the unknown and unpopular. I say forget them. Just because allopathic has been around longer and is seen as more favorable doesn't make it any better. As more D.O.'s enter medicine and people learn what it actually is, ideas will change. Even Harvard offers a class similiar to OMM (also know as OMT) recognizing its benefits, other than OMM the education is the same.

But like others said, if you don't want to be a D.O. then don't, that should be a personal decision.

Like you, some of my family and friends told me not to become a D.O. but I refused to listen to them and never doubted myself and my decision. I actually left them out of the whole process till I began to get interviews and acceptances. Then I told them and explained what it was. They have come around.

And as far as residencies go, if you want it, if you are determined, you will get it. And that mentality I am convinced of and I continue to ignore all others who tell me I can't.

So DO what you feel will be better for you and whatever education you decide, be the best physician you can be.

 

[USArmyDoc]

MD schools will give you an edge for competitive and surgical MD residencies over DO schools, I have also heard (via the rumour mill on SDN) that subspeciality in some fields may be off limits/hard to get for DOs, but no way to verify that.

But other than that....I don't think it makes that much of a difference. Personally, my first priority is to stay in the US for med school. I say reapply to MD only for these reasons:

1. You don't want DO after your name.
2. You want to do ultracompetitive residencies and/or are tilting in that direction and/or want to maximize your options there.
3. You have borderline grades for MD school

If you answered two out of the three above, then reapply, otherwise, I would strongly suggest taking your DO school and running with it. Your patients aren't going to care DO or MD, why should you?

I sorta agree with this post. Although I am borderline for MD (3.82, 3.6 science) with 26 MCAT. I had an interview and was placed in the acceptance range so it may work out. However, I am still going to take the DO spots if it doesn't.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I think USArmyDoc is right. Bottom line is you have to be happy. I wouldnt make a decision based on your family. Now if you want to do Derm or ENT going allo will make it easier but far from easy, if you want to do IM, FP, Peds etc I dont think the difference of degrees makes as much of a difference.

 

[USArmyDoc]

I think USArmyDoc is right. Bottom line is you have to be happy. I wouldnt make a decision based on your family. Now if you want to do Derm or ENT going allo will make it easier but far from easy, if you want to do IM, FP, Peds etc I dont think the difference of degrees makes as much of a difference.

Did I ever say I love this guy? Ectopic rocks!

Ectopic....Check your PM

 

[USArmyDoc]

I agree with this post.

Love you too!!

 

[Beau Geste]

I think USArmyDoc is right. Bottom line is you have to be happy. I wouldnt make a decision based on your family. Now if you want to do Derm or ENT going allo will make it easier but far from easy, if you want to do IM, FP, Peds etc I dont think the difference of degrees makes as much of a difference.

With that in mind, you can still go into a derm or ENT DO residency or allo. There are DOs in every specialty, it's all a matter of how well you do in school and boards. This holds true for the DO or MD path. Good grades + good boards (typically) = good residency choices.

 

[USArmyDoc]

I know this is "anecdotal" evidence but a family friend is a DO plastic surgeon trained at NYU. So, its more than a possibility.

 

[Taus]

You will find DO's in every specialty. Rest assured that no one in any of the insanely competative residencies (MD or DO) had less then stellar board scores, good letters of rec, the whole package..... Bottom line, work hard wherever you go to med school, become a competant Doc and stop caring what others think so much. In a few years from now you'll be too busy studying medicine and caring for patients to worry about an ignorant opinion or two before it all started. You will never have 100% of the people in the world agree with 100% of what you do for whatever reason. Thats life....

For now, try to educate your family and if they still won't listen then just tell them to come watch you at work in a few years.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

I took the DO spot. I felt grateful to the DO school for being fair and accepting me since I felt that I should have been accepted at all the MD schools I applied to (3.73 GPA 31 MCAT Biochem). You are putting yourself in a difficult situation by reapplying since you are wasting a year and may not get accepted anyways. Take the DO spot since I found out that the residencies in my school is 90% as good as the MD residencies. (Plus, if u got rejected, u are not the smartest apple in the school and would not get the cool surgical residencies anywas u idiot)

Thats what I did. I was on two MD waitlists and I had two DO acceptances is in hand.

Im almost done with my first year at a DO school, instead of just *maybe* starting my first year at an MD school

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

Yeah thats another thing to think about. Yes, you probably have a better chance of getting into a super subspecialty with an MD. However, you still need amazing board scores, LORs, etc.

Having the MD isnt good enough on its own.

 

[scpod]

Yes, take the DO spot. However, be aware that it IS harder for a DO to obtain an ALLOPATHIC residency.

Yes, but on average, 70% of the DOs applying to the allopathic match do, in fact, match.

long story short- the more competitive a residency, the fewer DO/FMG's are accepted (although it is MUCH better to be a DO than FMG in terms of chances for getting an Allopathic residency).

Yes, DOs have a much better chance than FMG's, but some specialties will always be limited in the allopathic match. These are a list of specialties where more than 70% of the spots went to US MD graduates in 2005:

PGY-1 slots
Anesthesiology- 70.4%
Dermatology- 96.4%
General Surgery- 80.4%
IM/ER- 82.6%
IM/Peds- 70.5%
IM (PGY-1 only)- 76.8%
Neuro Surgery- 84.2%
Ortho- 91.8%
Otolaryngology- 86.4%
Plastic Surgery- 90.1%
Radiology- 79.9%

There are a couple that I left off, but they have less than 20 total slots per year.

Some of them would be virtually impossible to get into, but those close to 70% or so are not out of the question by any means. Still, if you want to do the hard ones, remember there are DO residencies available with no competition at all from US or Foreign MDs.

 

[Taus]

Scpod....while I do see your point, there are a couple facts that make it less of a clear picture even w/ that information in front of you. The % DO's matching into allo is hard to define and likely higher then that 70% because those who applied to both matches and matched DO, were then pulled out of the Allo match automatically. Also with DO's only making up around 5-6% of all US physicians, you really can't use those numbers posted to make a judgement about the amt. of DO's in a specialty. Example: If someone shows you that there are "only" 5% DO's in a given specialty it may seem like they don't match well there, whereas in reality they are in a 1:1 ratio w/ MDs. Also, a specialty like PM&R w/ around 15% DO's is a huge/over representation of us. You are correct though about some of the above specialties (ie Derm, ortho, plastics). Those are where a DO should strongly consider a DO residency.

 

[docmd2010]

Scpod....while I do see your point, there are a couple facts that make it less of a clear picture even w/ that information in front of you. The % DO's matching into allo is hard to define and likely higher then that 70% because those who applied to both matches and matched DO, were then pulled out of the Allo match automatically. Also with DO's only making up around 5-6% of all US physicians, you really can't use those numbers posted to make a judgement about the amt. of DO's in a specialty. Example: If someone shows you that there are "only" 5% DO's in a given specialty it may seem like they don't match well there, whereas in reality they are in a 1:1 ratio w/ MDs. Also, a specialty like PM&R w/ around 15% DO's is a huge/over representation of us. You are correct though about some of the above specialties (ie Derm, ortho, plastics). Those are where a DO should strongly consider a DO residency.

random diatribe...
If you are going DO because you couldn't get into an MD school then you likely won't have what it takes (ie the ability to score among the top in the country in medschool) to match into something like Derm or Plastics. They are number-****** and if you fit into that category (not that there's anything wrong w/ being like that) then you likely would have gotten into an MD school if thats what you wanted.

On the other hand, if you wanted to be a DO for the different focus/training that we go through, then you are not likely to be geared towards uber-competative subspecialties. Though DO's can do any specialty they choose, I firmly believe that the students who CHOSE to go to DO schools over MD schools did so because they wanted to go into primary care or other specialties that offer a lot of direct patient interaction( and/or while their patient was awake.)

Don't know why I went off on this little rant here.....its just been something on my mind I guess....

I tend to agree with most of what you have said except the fact that "if you coouldn't get into a us md school and are going to d.o. school for that reason, that you won't get into an uber-competitive residency". People change when they go to med school. My personal friend went to the Carib for medical school (couldn't get into md or do in the us) and did really well
there and now he's at mayo doin opthalmology. So nothing is closed out unless you allow it to be.

 

[scpod]

Scpod....while I do see your point, there are a couple facts that make it less of a clear picture even w/ that information in front of you. The % DO's matching into allo is hard to define and likely higher then that 70% because those who applied to both matches and matched DO, were then pulled out of the Allo match automatically.

It's not hard to define at all. The figures since 1999 are available here . The figures for 2005 only are listed below:

Osteopaths in 2005 Allopathic Match

Number Percentage
Osteopaths 2,043 100.00
Withdrew 426 20.9
No Ranking 93 4.6
Active Applicants 1,524 100.00
Matched PGY-1 1,045 68.6
Unmatched PGY-1 479 31.4

 

[Taus]

It's not hard to define at all. The figures since 1999 are available here . The figures for 2005 only are listed below:

Osteopaths in 2005 Allopathic Match

Number Percentage
Osteopaths 2,043 100.00
Withdrew 426 20.9
No Ranking 93 4.6
Active Applicants 1,524 100.00
Matched PGY-1 1,045 68.6
Unmatched PGY-1 479 31.4

Sorry about that, I was not aware that the % withdrawn was considered in the numbers. I guess that other 30% is very thankful for the leftover DO spots to scramble into.

 

[beachbunny]

People will always discourage you from things that they either don't know about or things that aren't as widely accepted because they are afraid of the unknown and unpopular. I say forget them. Just because allopathic has been around longer and is seen as more favorable doesn't make it any better. As more D.O.'s enter medicine and people learn what it actually is, ideas will change. Even Harvard offers a class similiar to OMM (also know as OMT) recognizing its benefits, other than OMM the education is the same.

But like others said, if you don't want to be a D.O. then don't, that should be a personal decision.

Like you, some of my family and friends told me not to become a D.O. but I refused to listen to them and never doubted myself and my decision. I actually left them out of the whole process till I began to get interviews and acceptances. Then I told them and explained what it was. They have come around.

And as far as residencies go, if you want it, if you are determined, you will get it. And that mentality I am convinced of and I continue to ignore all others who tell me I can't.

So DO what you feel will be better for you and whatever education you decide, be the best physician you can be.

EXCELLENT REPLY!