Has anyone ever regretted getting a PhD in clinical psych?

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AnonymousClinicalPsych

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Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forum and would like to get people's opinions on questions I don't feel comfortable asking people I know.
I'm currently half way through a partially-funded PhD program in clinical psych, and starting to feel regretful for getting this degree. I'm not saying that I want to switch career now, that would be a reckless decision given how much I've already invested at this point. I just want to see if anyone feels the same way or differently.

The main reason for my regret is that I don't enjoy doing therapy (my program is much more clinical than researchy, even though it's a PhD program) as much as I thought. Maybe that's my own fault for not figuring this out beforehand, but I feel it's really hard to know what doing therapy is really about and feels like until you actually get trained and do it. In this country at least you really don't have much opportunity to get exposed to that unless you are in a doctoral program or a license track master's program. I'm also just tired of the endless work and the amount of effort that you have to devote into getting this degree. I did prepare myself for it before going into it, but it just became so much harder after you realize that you don't actually like it AND feel disappointed by your program's quality (this is a very subjective opinion of mine). I feel like I've exhausted my will power muscle at this point. Also, by the time I can start make actual money (i.e.after completing internship, post-doc, licensure) I'll be in my early thirties, with peers who have already worked at least 7 or 8 years, probably advanced to a mid-level position in their field, and make more money than I do. In fact, I don't even know how much does an entry-level psychologist make. No one talks about that in school and I haven't been able to find a way to ask that question in a way that's not awkward or rude. Any one knows? I know it depends on a lot of different factors and the setting, but just generally speaking, how much would you be able to take home if you are in private practice or a hospital in NYC? I'm guessing around $100K?? I feel that just doesn't justify the effort required for this degree. Call me shallow or superficial, but I think money is an important thing in the end. If you just need to have a job to make a living, why not choose one that requires less education and effort but may give you the same payout. The good thing is that I don't have any debt, just because I'm lucky enough to have parents who are willing to pay for the tuition and expenses. But even with that, I question whether this is all worth it.

Please share your thoughts. Thank you.

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I don't have any big regrets. I enjoy what I do, and I have a lot of leeway to change focus if I wanted to do so. Also, I make pretty good money for the time spent working, though doing IME work helps in this.
 
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I don't have any big regrets. I enjoy what I do, and I have a lot of leeway to change focus if I wanted to do so. Also, I make pretty good money for the time spent working, though doing IME work helps in this.
Thanks for your response! Could you clarify what IME is? I’m not familiar with that acronym. I also see that you are a neuropsychologist. How different that is from a clinical psychologist? I assume that you primarily focus on assessment? Do you do therapy at all?
 
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Thanks for your response! Could you clarify what IME is? I’m not familiar with that acronym. I also see that you are a neuropsychologist. How different that is from a clinical psychologist? I assume that you primarily focus on assessment? Do you do therapy at all?

An IME is an Independent Medical Evaluation. This is generally a legal evaluation. In my case, I only do civil legal work, nothing criminal at the moment. This involves doing neuropsych evals with an individual alleging an injury which can affect cognitive and psychiatric function. Then there's the report, and the potential for depositions and courtroom testimony.

As for the therapy piece. I have a relatively heavy background in PTSD and anxiety, and up until going into full private practice about a year ago I generally held a few therapy clients here and there.
 
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I've regretted it from time to time, and liked it at others. I didn't really like it completely until I went into hospital mental health administration, so I do think you eventually can find your niche.
 
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I never regretted it and like most of my job, but I would have probably gone into contract law if I’d known that existed when I was in undergrad.
 
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I have regretted it at times and would do it all over again others. I have peers who feel the same. Sorry I can't be more helpful. I guess I would just ask you what would you be happier doing and if you have a clear answer, that might be worth pursuing exploration of. A PhD can certainly open a lot of doors.
 
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Regret is just another way of learning.

It’s the same thing as reinforcement and punishment. You can regret what you have done. You can regret what you haven’t done. If you learn from it, regret is a positive thing.

There are many other professional activities you can do. There are likely many more undiscovered things.

$100k is lowball. Learn how billing works. Do the math.
 
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Regret is just another way of learning.

It’s the same thing as reinforcement and punishment. You can regret what you have done. You can regret what you haven’t done. If you learn from it, regret is a positive thing.

There are many other professional activities you can do. There are likely many more undiscovered things.

$100k is lowball. Learn how billing works. Do the math.
If $100k is lowball then how much is reasonable? I’m genuinely asking. How do you “learn how billing works” and “do the math”? If you have more info that you feel comfortable sharing please do. It’s interesting how people are still very vague about money even when it’s anonymous.
 
If $100k is lowball then how much is reasonable? I’m genuinely asking. How do you “learn how billing works” and “do the math”? If you have more info that you feel comfortable sharing please do. It’s interesting how people are still very vague about money even when it’s anonymous.

Depends on what you are doing. In general, look at medicare rates for the services you would be doing (e.g., CPT codes you would be billing) sketch out what your typical week would look like in terms of billable hours. Multiply that by ~48 weeks. Gives you a lower bound estimate of what you're bringing in. Depending on your payer mix, you can assume a certain percentage above that.

Now, monetize everything that a job is offering you (PTO, 401/403 contributions, insurance premiums, payroll taxes) and you can see how much you bring in vs how much you are being compensated.
 
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I have regretted it at times and would do it all over again others. I have peers who feel the same. Sorry I can't be more helpful. I guess I would just ask you what would you be happier doing and if you have a clear answer, that might be worth pursuing exploration of. A PhD can certainly open a lot of doors.
Thank you! It is a good question, but I don’t know if it’s useful to think about it at this point of my life. It’s not like I can just quit my program and change career now if I figure out what I’m truly passionate about. I can’t imagine giving up all the things I’ve learned and starting from scratch. I guess I’d be happier if I know I can at least make a decent amount of money after getting this ridiculously-hard-to-get degree, even if I have to do something that I don’t like that much.
 
If $100k is lowball then how much is reasonable? I’m genuinely asking. How do you “learn how billing works” and “do the math”? If you have more info that you feel comfortable sharing please do. It’s interesting how people are still very vague about money even when it’s anonymous.

1). Reasonable? As much as you can earn. Telling won’t help you. What will is getting you to look up the professional surveys on income. Someone is the max on that. So… between $60k-$900k. Outside of me, there are people on SDN who make less than $40k/yr, and some that can make $40k in 2 weeks.

2) Learn the CPT codes used in psychology. This is easily found on APA sites via google. Usually laziness is the barrier to this step.

3) look up CMS’ fee schedule tool. Again: google.

4) look up the expected percentage of billable hours for hours worked. Both attorneys and physicians have easily accessible numbers on this via the google.

5) multiply those numbers. Maybe search for the number of hours worked per year, less vacation and sick days. Or multiply 40hrs/wk*50weeks/yr.

6) accept that the industry is: hourly rate X billable hours worked. The options are to work longer hours, make more per hour, or find a way to multiply your hours per day. But you’re in NYC, so you can’t use technicians. And books don’t work.

TL;DR: if you hustle, you’ll want to learn the business of it all. That process will teach you 50% of the business. If you can’t be bothered to teach yourself, you can’t be bothered fo earn. That’s not a knock on you or anyone else. But Wallstreet isn’t based on pikers.
 
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1). Reasonable? As much as you can earn. Telling won’t help you. What will is getting you to look up the professional surveys on income. Someone is the max on that. So… between $60k-$900k. Outside of me, there are people on SDN who make less than $40k/yr, and some that can make $40k in 2 weeks.

2) Learn the CPT codes used in psychology. This is easily found on APA sites via google. Usually laziness is the barrier to this step.

3) look up CMS’ fee schedule tool. Again: google.

4) look up the expected percentage of billable hours for hours worked. Both attorneys and physicians have easily accessible numbers on this via the google.

5) multiply those numbers. Maybe search for the number of hours worked per year, less vacation and sick days. Or multiply 40hrs/wk*50weeks/yr.

6) accept that the industry is: hourly rate X billable hours worked. The options are to work longer hours, make more per hour, or find a way to multiply your hours per day. But you’re in NYC, so you can’t use technicians. And books don’t work.

TL;DR: if you hustle, you’ll want to learn the business of it all. That process will teach you 50% of the business. If you can’t be bothered to teach yourself, you can’t be bothered fo earn. That’s not a knock on you or anyone else. But Wallstreet isn’t based on pikers.
I do appreciate the info you provided. But it feels that you are very quick to judge that people are just dumb and lazy. I’d appreciate your help even more if it wasn’t delivered in such a condescending manner :))
 
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Thank you! It is a good question, but I don’t know if it’s useful to think about it at this point of my life. It’s not like I can just quit my program and change career now if I figure out what I’m truly passionate about. I can’t imagine giving up all the things I’ve learned and starting from scratch. I guess I’d be happier if I know I can at least make a decent amount of money after getting this ridiculously-hard-to-get degree, even if I have to do something that I don’t like that much.
What's a decent amount of money?
 
Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forum and would like to get people's opinions on questions I don't feel comfortable asking people I know.
I'm currently half way through a partially-funded PhD program in clinical psych, and starting to feel regretful for getting this degree. I'm not saying that I want to switch career now, that would be a reckless decision given how much I've already invested at this point. I just want to see if anyone feels the same way or differently.

The main reason for my regret is that I don't enjoy doing therapy (my program is much more clinical than researchy, even though it's a PhD program) as much as I thought. Maybe that's my own fault for not figuring this out beforehand, but I feel it's really hard to know what doing therapy is really about and feels like until you actually get trained and do it. In this country at least you really don't have much opportunity to get exposed to that unless you are in a doctoral program or a license track master's program. I'm also just tired of the endless work and the amount of effort that you have to devote into getting this degree. I did prepare myself for it before going into it, but it just became so much harder after you realize that you don't actually like it AND feel disappointed by your program's quality (this is a very subjective opinion of mine). I feel like I've exhausted my will power muscle at this point. Also, by the time I can start make actual money (i.e.after completing internship, post-doc, licensure) I'll be in my early thirties, with peers who have already worked at least 7 or 8 years, probably advanced to a mid-level position in their field, and make more money than I do. In fact, I don't even know how much does an entry-level psychologist make. No one talks about that in school and I haven't been able to find a way to ask that question in a way that's not awkward or rude. Any one knows? I know it depends on a lot of different factors and the setting, but just generally speaking, how much would you be able to take home if you are in private practice or a hospital in NYC? I'm guessing around $100K?? I feel that just doesn't justify the effort required for this degree. Call me shallow or superficial, but I think money is an important thing in the end. If you just need to have a job to make a living, why not choose one that requires less education and effort but may give you the same payout. The good thing is that I don't have any debt, just because I'm lucky enough to have parents who are willing to pay for the tuition and expenses. But even with that, I question whether this is all worth it.

Please share your thoughts. Thank you.
What do you like/not like about therapy?
I was always research focused, but I don't think I actually enjoyed therapy very much until my very last practicum and grad school. It was in a drastically different area/setting than I had originally trained in.
 
I do appreciate the info you provided. But it feels that you are very quick to judge that people are just dumb and lazy. I’d appreciate your help even more if it wasn’t delivered in such a condescending manner :))

I can understand the perception. Information is insufficient to earn money. You’d think it’s condescending for me to say, “go to Harvard law, get a federal judge clerkship in finance, work for Brewster, and earn 7 figures”. That advice does nothing to help you earn. Earning money is NOT only about information, or even ability. It requires effort, and a lot of humility. If you’re not willing to put that effort in, there’s nothing that can help you.

It’s like me. I spent time trying to help you. But since my effort is met with negativity, I regret giving you any information. :)
 
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If $100k is lowball then how much is reasonable? I’m genuinely asking. How do you “learn how billing works” and “do the math”? If you have more info that you feel comfortable sharing please do. It’s interesting how people are still very vague about money even when it’s anonymous.

That's because no one is laying out a free step by step playbook on how you can compete with them. We have all spent years figuring this out. There are a lot of ways to make money. Many tips are all around these boards on old threads. Do some reading. Figure out how you want to make money.

If you want the medical school $300k job offer from a random hospital upon graduation. That is not going to happen.
 
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What's a decent amount of money?
I guess I'd be fine with a $100K starting salary and the potential to earn up to $150k-200k as the years go by, given that I live in NYC where everything is more expansive than the rest of the country. I have friends with a masters degree in another field who earn roughly $100k after 2 years of experience and those with a PhD in another field have a starting salary of $140K. I guess what I'm asking is not ridiculous?
 
I guess I'd be fine with a $100K starting salary and the potential to earn up to $150k-200k as the years go by, given that I live in NYC where everything is more expansive than the rest of the country. I have friends with a masters degree in another field who earn roughly $100k after 2 years of experience and those with a PhD in another field have a starting salary of $140K. I guess what I'm asking is not ridiculous?

Those numbers are very doable. That said NYC is a very competitive area. Plenty of fellow psychologists.
 
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That's because no one is laying out a free step by step playbook on how you can compete with them. We have all spent years figuring this out. There are a lot of ways to make money. Many tips are all around these boards on old threads. Do some reading. Figure out how you want to make money.

If you want the medical school $300k job offer from a random hospital upon graduation. That is not going to happen.
I'm sorry if I misunderstood the response. I wasn't asking people to lay out a free step by step playbook. I was asking if people have information on the general salary that an entry-level psychologist make in NYC. I did do some reading on old threads but that specific information is hard to find/search on internet and the general impression I got is that the earning potential is pretty bleak in our field. I could be wrong.
 
I can understand the perception. Information is insufficient to earn money. You’d think it’s condescending for me to say, “go to Harvard law, get a federal judge clerkship in finance, work for Brewster, and earn 7 figures”. That advice does nothing to help you earn. Earning money is NOT only about information, or even ability. It requires effort, and a lot of humility. If you’re not willing to put that effort in, there’s nothing that can help you.

It’s like me. I spent time trying to help you. But since my effort is met with negativity, I regret giving you any information. :)
I feel that we are talking about a different thing now. I might have misunderstood your previous post, but that doesn't matter now.

"Regret is just another way of learning."--PsyDr
 
I'd also think about money/hours worked or money/stress when looking at other industries, especially since you're in NYC. I used to live there and work at a hedge fund, and I can promise you that most people there who made obscene amounts of money 1. were miserable and 2. had next to no time to spend their money because they were always working. Totally agree that money is a valid concern, but the dollar value itself isn't the whole picture.
 
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I'd also think about money/hours worked or money/stress when looking at other industries, especially since you're in NYC. I used to live there and work at a hedge fund, and I can promise you that most people there who made obscene amounts of money 1. were miserable and 2. had next to no time to spend their money because they were always working. Totally agree that money is a valid concern, but the dollar value itself isn't the whole picture.
I agree and I get that. I also know people who work in IBD and have to be standing by almost 24/7. I'm not asking for obscene amounts of money. I feel what I'm asking is reasonable giving the effort that's required for the degree. And honestly, I don't think I have that much free time either being in a phd program. I have pretty much no income.
 
I feel that we are talking about a different thing now. I might have misunderstood your previous post, but that doesn't matter now.

"Regret is just another way of learning."--PsyDr

I learned through literally thousands of hours in personal effort, sucking up to people who made money, reading exhaustively, and eating humble pie when making personal mistakes. Maybe recommending the same is condescending. Or maybe asking for all of that information with zero do the effort is condescending. It doesn’t matter to me. I was only offering help. I had nothing to lose in this interaction.
 
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It’s not like I can just quit my program and change career now if I figure out what I’m truly passionate about. I can’t imagine giving up all the things I’ve learned and starting from scratch.

Yes. You can. People do it. I've seen it. Also the reverse, with people in their 40s quitting prior careers and coming into PhD programs to start a new journey. Just cause you have difficulty imagining it doesn't mean anything.

I was asking if people have information on the general salary that an entry-level psychologist make in NYC. I did do some reading on old threads but that specific information is hard to find/search on internet

This information is on the APA website. In fancy colorful charts and graphs too. It is a couple years old at least since I last looked at it. I would be surprised if they took it down.
 
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Yes. You can. People do it. I've seen it. Also the reverse, with people in their 40s quitting prior careers and coming into PhD programs to start a new journey. Just cause you have difficulty imagining it doesn't mean anything.



This information is on the APA website. In fancy colorful charts and graphs too. It is a couple years old at least since I last looked at it. I would be surprised if they took it down.
lol thank you for your optimism. Yes I can. In theory I can do anything I want. But the question is whether it is realistic. I can go to an acting academy and be an actor and potentially earn millions of dollars. But that's not a realistic plan for life. I'm really not considering to have all those years and money spent in my education wasted and do something else, which may take even more time and cost more money, when I'm not 15 years old. Please don't take it the wrong way. I'm not trying to bash you, I just want to be realistic. My original intention was to see if people feel the same way, so that I can get some validation and feel less unhappy. Or if people feel differently, what their point of view is so maybe I can learn from that.
 
lol thank you for your optimism. Yes I can. In theory I can do anything I want. But the question is whether it is realistic. I can go to an acting academy and be an actor and potentially earn millions of dollars. But that's not a realistic plan for life. I'm really not considering to have all those years and money spent in my education wasted and do something else, which may take even more time and cost more money, when I'm not 15 years old. Please don't take it the wrong way. I'm not trying to bash you, I just want to be realistic. My original intention was to see if people feel the same way, so that I can get some validation and feel less unhappy. Or if people feel differently, what their point of view is so maybe I can learn from that.
Honestly, it sounds like you're saying that you're unhappy in your program and want to quit, but are choosing not to because of sunk cost and seeking validation that it might get better. Maybe it will, maybe you'll make the money you want to make, and maybe it makes sense for you to stay, idk. But there's a big difference between going all in on a highly improbably acting career and switching to another attainable profession. You don't have any debt and the skills you learned will be transferrable, if not directly useful, in something else you choose to do. I wouldn't leave without a plan of what you're going to do next, but I also (in your shoes) wouldn't get caught up in the few years I've already spent and bank on things getting better. It also sounds like you're still in your 20s, in which case you have time to figure things out. Yes, people your age might be "ahead" of you in some objective career sense, but the world isn't going to collapse if you switch jobs with intentionality to something that's a better fit.
 
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I ended up changing directions after finishing my PhD. I was always more research focused than clinically focused. I don't so much regret the decision to pursue a PhD, but the career lost a lot of luster during postdoc and I figured my skills would be more lucrative in the business world. I also wanted to have a more normal schedule and have time to spend with my partner, raise a family, and engage in other hobbies. At the end, psychology was just a job, one that didn't pay all that well as a post-doc/early career psychologist, and I could imagine doing a lot of other things with my skills. After internship and two post-docs I pivoted to becoming a business analyst. My background in stats, research methods, and clinical skills have been an asset for researching business processes, gathering requirements for projects, project management, people management, etc. I still do a lot of data analysis, which I love, and do a lot of problem solving as I am housed in an IT department. All that being said, I still miss psychology and some of what I used to study, the writing, and sometimes the clinical issues, which is why I still lurk here...haha.

There are good things and bad things with every job, you just have to decide if you want your time, values and skills going towards something in psychology or something else. A PhD prepares you well for other paths, and having a PhD on your resume can quickly give you a leg up regardless of what you do.
 
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I’m personally satisfied since I get a lot of intrinsic satisfaction from clinical work but know others who aren’t, including those who realized they aren't a great fit for clinical work, enjoy clinical work but are burned out by workload demands, and/or are overwhelmed by their student debt. I also know 2 people in my PhD program who ended up leaving with a LPC eligible Master’s degree and did not regret that choice.
I was asking if people have information on the general salary that an entry-level psychologist make in NYC.
I don't know anything about the NYC market but since a decent number of psychologists start their career in the VA, GS-11 non-licensed staff psychologists hired straight out of internship with locality pay for Manhattan is $74,702 + federal benefits. After a year, you can bump up to a GS-12 at $89,537 and once you're independently licensed and have at least 24 months of federal employment tenure, GS-13, Step 1 puts you at $106,471 (with much smaller future increases in pay based on tenure).
I feel what I'm asking is reasonable giving the effort that's required for the degree.
Your plumber is probably not plumbing for a love of unclogging things so it's totally understandable for compensation to play a large role in career satisfaction. But whether I worked harder or you'll work harder for this degree alone will not impact your compensation. Even though grad school is really hard (but so are lots of other things), don't expect great opportunities to automatically fall into your lap once you're done if you're not putting yourself in positions to take advantage of the possible financial benefits that this career can potentially provide.
 
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I ended up changing directions after finishing my PhD. I was always more research focused than clinically focused. I don't so much regret the decision to pursue a PhD, but the career lost a lot of luster during postdoc and I figured my skills would be more lucrative in the business world. I also wanted to have a more normal schedule and have time to spend with my partner, raise a family, and engage in other hobbies. At the end, psychology was just a job, one that didn't pay all that well as a post-doc/early career psychologist, and I could imagine doing a lot of other things with my skills. After internship and two post-docs I pivoted to becoming a business analyst. My background in stats, research methods, and clinical skills have been an asset for researching business processes, gathering requirements for projects, project management, people management, etc. I still do a lot of data analysis, which I love, and do a lot of problem solving as I am housed in an IT department. All that being said, I still miss psychology and some of what I used to study, the writing, and sometimes the clinical issues, which is why I still lurk here...haha.

There are good things and bad things with every job, you just have to decide if you want your time, values and skills going towards something in psychology or something else. A PhD prepares you well for other paths, and having a PhD on your resume can quickly give you a leg up regardless of what you do.
Very helpful. Thank you.
 
I've regretted it from time to time, and liked it at others. I didn't really like it completely until I went into hospital mental health administration, so I do think you eventually can find your niche.
Could you say more about what made you regretted it and what made you like it?
 
This information is on the APA website. In fancy colorful charts and graphs too. It is a couple years old at least since I last looked at it. I would be surprised if they took it down.

I believe the current survey is from 2015. Some of the specialties, have more recent surveys specific to those roles. For example, Neuropsych just updated its salary survey last year.
 
Do you mind telling me why you would have gone into contract law?
I’m doing an MBA right now and the business law class I took was amazing. Contract law combines my passions for being petty and punishing people for not attending to details. Seriously though it is super fascinating to me and there are ways to help people from getting screwed over by predatory contracts.
 
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I’m doing an MBA right now and the business law class I took was amazing. Contract law combines my passions for being petty and punishing people for not attending to details. Seriously though it is super fascinating to me and there are ways to help people from getting screwed over by predatory contracts.

Like 50/50 reimbursement splits and overly broad/unenforceable non-compete clauses?
 
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Like 50/50 reimbursement splits and overly broad/unenforceable non-compete clauses?
That's why I plan to offer prospective employees a 30/70 split. 50/50 seems much too generous.
 
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I plan to forgo expensive and unnecessary health insurance plans and instead offer them a sit/stand desk instead.

Good move, a treadmill desk seems like a liability nightmare.

Have you thought about getting rid of the chair and just making it a stand desk?
 
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I regret going to a poorly funded program. My mentors were all older and out of touch w. the application process (this was pre-SDN), so I had no idea there were balanced Ph.D. programs...they all went to hardcore research programs in the midwest. I found the grad school book for clinical psych at a bookstore, but I didn't really understand all of the other things I should have considered. I made the most of it and I generally enjoy what I do, but it took a lot of time and sacrifice to get here. If I could do it again, I'd either do behavioral neurology or skip healthcare all together and work in finance / stock market. I'd be on my 2nd vacation home by now like some friends and family.
 
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What's a decent amount of money?

I regret going to a poorly funded program. My mentors were all older and out of touch w. the application process (this was pre-SDN), so I had no idea there were balanced Ph.D. programs...they all went to hardcore research programs in the midwest. I found the grad school book for clinical psych at a bookstore, but I didn't really understand all of the other things I should have considered. I made the most of it and I generally enjoy what I do, but it took a lot of time and sacrifice to get here. If I could do it again, I'd either do behavioral neurology or skip healthcare all together and work in finance / stock market. I'd be on my 2nd vacation home by now like some friends and family.
Ugh that's sounds tough...But thanks for sharing. It's helpful for me to know this.
 
Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forum and would like to get people's opinions on questions I don't feel comfortable asking people I know.
I'm currently half way through a partially-funded PhD program in clinical psych, and starting to feel regretful for getting this degree. I'm not saying that I want to switch career now, that would be a reckless decision given how much I've already invested at this point. I just want to see if anyone feels the same way or differently.
Don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy! But, I suspect there is something else going on here...
The main reason for my regret is that I don't enjoy doing therapy (my program is much more clinical than researchy, even though it's a PhD program) as much as I thought. Maybe that's my own fault for not figuring this out beforehand, but I feel it's really hard to know what doing therapy is really about and feels like until you actually get trained and do it. In this country at least you really don't have much opportunity to get exposed to that unless you are in a doctoral program or a license track master's program.
What don't you like about therapy? Are you hella self-conscious? Are you doing therapy that just isn't a great fit for your style? What are your placements? Are you taking therapy too seriously? Are you not vibing with your supervisors.

There are many psychologists who just don't like doing therapy. It's often not my favorite thing, either. So I focus more on assessment of the neurodevelopmental disorders and behavioral consultation with parents (aka parent management training, aka sticker charts and time out 101).

Or you can just be a dirty academic, all smug up in the ivory tower, doing research or just teaching. There is nothing wrong with that route. But, you might want to start building that side of it.
I'm also just tired of the endless work and the amount of effort that you have to devote into getting this degree. I did prepare myself for it before going into it, but it just became so much harder after you realize that you don't actually like it AND feel disappointed by your program's quality (this is a very subjective opinion of mine). I feel like I've exhausted my will power muscle at this point.
This feeling is called burnout! I think it's very normal midway through your doc program. I'm also wondering if maybe some depression has snuck up on you. COVID has sucked... Did you move from your support system? Are you the first grad student in your family? Do you ever get some damn sunshine on your skin? Are you exercising regularly? Do you live on hoth and the short cold days are getting to you?

Also, slow down bro. You don't have to have everything figured out and mapped perfectly. Set short term goals. Like just focus on getting to Christmas.

Is there anyway to increase your involvement in the program so you feel more connected to it?
Also, by the time I can start make actual money (i.e.after completing internship, post-doc, licensure) I'll be in my early thirties, with peers who have already worked at least 7 or 8 years, probably advanced to a mid-level position in their field, and make more money than I do.

I had this same feeling. I was 32 when I got licensed. I talked with my dad about it and he said, "are you gonna be 32, either way?" BTW - my parents were like yours, I never took loans, they helped me a ton.
In fact, I don't even know how much does an entry-level psychologist make. No one talks about that in school and I haven't been able to find a way to ask that question in a way that's not awkward or rude. Any one knows? I know it depends on a lot of different factors and the setting, but just generally speaking, how much would you be able to take home if you are in private practice or a hospital in NYC? I'm guessing around $100K?? I feel that just doesn't justify the effort required for this degree. Call me shallow or superficial, but I think money is an important thing in the end. If you just need to have a job to make a living, why not choose one that requires less education and effort but may give you the same payout.
Money is important. I currently make more than anyone in my graduating class. But no one really gets wealthy by doing therapy. They get wealthy by making smart financial decisions, minimizing expenses, and finding other routes to income. For instance, you could run a private practice or start an ABA clinic or something. Don't worry about the money too much. The degree, if it doesn't kill your soul, will be the best investment you'll ever make.

Grad school is supposed to suck. Its part of the experience.

But, I'm wondering if maybe, the old black dog hasn't crept up on you and maybe a little good ole fashioned Prozac and therapy will help.
 
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Don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy! But, I suspect there is something else going on here...

What don't you like about therapy? Are you hella self-conscious? Are you doing therapy that just isn't a great fit for your style? What are your placements? Are you taking therapy too seriously? Are you not vibing with your supervisors.

There are many psychologists who just don't like doing therapy. It's often not my favorite thing, either. So I focus more on assessment of the neurodevelopmental disorders and behavioral consultation with parents (aka parent management training, aka sticker charts and time out 101).

Or you can just be a dirty academic, all smug up in the ivory tower, doing research or just teaching. There is nothing wrong with that route. But, you might want to start building that side of it.

This feeling is called burnout! I think it's very normal midway through your doc program. I'm also wondering if maybe some depression has snuck up on you. COVID has sucked... Did you move from your support system? Are you the first grad student in your family? Do you ever get some damn sunshine on your skin? Are you exercising regularly? Do you live on hoth and the short cold days are getting to you?

Also, slow down bro. You don't have to have everything figured out and mapped perfectly. Set short term goals. Like just focus on getting to Christmas.

Is there anyway to increase your involvement in the program so you feel more connected to it?


I had this same feeling. I was 32 when I got licensed. I talked with my dad about it and he said, "are you gonna be 32, either way?" BTW - my parents were like yours, I never took loans, they helped me a ton.

Money is important. I currently make more than anyone in my graduating class. But no one really gets wealthy by doing therapy. They get wealthy by making smart financial decisions, minimizing expenses, and finding other routes to income. For instance, you could run a private practice or start an ABA clinic or something. Don't worry about the money too much. The degree, if it doesn't kill your soul, will be the best investment you'll ever make.

Grad school is supposed to suck. Its part of the experience.

But, I'm wondering if maybe, the old black dog hasn't crept up on you and maybe a little good ole fashioned Prozac and therapy will help

Don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy! But, I suspect there is something else going on here...

What don't you like about therapy? Are you hella self-conscious? Are you doing therapy that just isn't a great fit for your style? What are your placements? Are you taking therapy too seriously? Are you not vibing with your supervisors.

There are many psychologists who just don't like doing therapy. It's often not my favorite thing, either. So I focus more on assessment of the neurodevelopmental disorders and behavioral consultation with parents (aka parent management training, aka sticker charts and time out 101).

Or you can just be a dirty academic, all smug up in the ivory tower, doing research or just teaching. There is nothing wrong with that route. But, you might want to start building that side of it.

This feeling is called burnout! I think it's very normal midway through your doc program. I'm also wondering if maybe some depression has snuck up on you. COVID has sucked... Did you move from your support system? Are you the first grad student in your family? Do you ever get some damn sunshine on your skin? Are you exercising regularly? Do you live on hoth and the short cold days are getting to you?

Also, slow down bro. You don't have to have everything figured out and mapped perfectly. Set short term goals. Like just focus on getting to Christmas.

Is there anyway to increase your involvement in the program so you feel more connected to it?


I had this same feeling. I was 32 when I got licensed. I talked with my dad about it and he said, "are you gonna be 32, either way?" BTW - my parents were like yours, I never took loans, they helped me a ton.

Money is important. I currently make more than anyone in my graduating class. But no one really gets wealthy by doing therapy. They get wealthy by making smart financial decisions, minimizing expenses, and finding other routes to income. For instance, you could run a private practice or start an ABA clinic or something. Don't worry about the money too much. The degree, if it doesn't kill your soul, will be the best investment you'll ever make.

Grad school is supposed to suck. Its part of the experience.

But, I'm wondering if maybe, the old black dog hasn't crept up on you and maybe a little good ole fashioned Prozac and therapy will help.
Thank you so much for your input!
 
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I can't answer your questions about regret because I don't have a Ph.D., but just as one data point about private practice income, I'm an LCSW in NYC in and my net income is around $12,500 a month and climbing. I currently see about 23-25 clients a week after cancellations. I also write and consult, but that doesn't usually bring in more than an additional $10K or so a year (so I guess about $160K total).

That said, I have some niche skills, am licensed in two states, and have built a great referral network in the year I've been practicing privately. My therapist friends whose fees are lower, who don't have sought-after specialties, or who don't have a knack for self-promotion seem to make less. Also, I like what I do. I don't think I'd stay in the field if I didn't. The stress of running a solo practice is manageable, but the stress of doing that and disliking the work would make my life a living hell. Think about that as you consider alternative career paths. It might be worth shaving a bit off your income to, y'know, be happy.
 
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I can't answer your questions about regret because I don't have a Ph.D., but just as one data point about private practice income, I'm an LCSW in NYC in and my net income is around $12,500 a month and climbing. I currently see about 23-25 clients a week after cancellations. I also write and consult, but that doesn't usually bring in more than an additional $10K or so a year (so I guess about $160K total).

That said, I have some niche skills, am licensed in two states, and have built a great referral network in the year I've been practicing privately. My therapist friends whose fees are lower, who don't have sought-after specialties, or who don't have a knack for self-promotion seem to make less. Also, I like what I do. I don't think I'd stay in the field if I didn't. The stress of running a solo practice is manageable, but the stress of doing that and disliking the work would make my life a living hell. Think about that as you consider alternative career paths. It might be worth shaving a bit off your income to, y'know, be happy.

We should post this for everyone who says an LCSW can't make any money and they need a third rate doctorate. Publicly funded MSW FTW!
 
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MSW + $10 in color printing charges at Kinkos for doctoral diploma PDF downloaded of the internet+$40 frame?

Well, I guess that is cheaper and quicker then how some people buy theirs from a diploma mill. Does the kinko's method also include decreased cognitive dissonance?
 
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