Has anyone heard the mantra "go surgical, or go home"?

[attaboybambeeks]

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curious...
I thought I'd ask after overhearing some students at say this when I was interviewing. I think its supposed to imply that other residencies aren't worth pursuing. seemed a bit narrowminded and an attempt to be elitist...
thoughts?

 

[DownonthePharm]

It is narrowminded and elitist. Ignore them and do what YOU are interested in.

Many of the annoying kick-out-of-the-way-to-cut students in Anatomy are surgeon wannabes. YMMV of course.

 

[Blake]

What's so elitist about it ? Why is it so HORRIBLE to only see yourself working as a surgeon ? Some people are go pediatrics or go home, same for most specialties out there. You know, maybe surgery is actually that fascinating to some people, as hard as it may be to imagine.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

if that seemed to be the general mantra of students at a particular school, i'd figure the school was not a good match for me because i have about zero interest in surgery. i guess i've missed out on surgery being super-elite (probably because it doesn't appeal to me), but it does seem narrow-minded.

 

[Uncle_Tbag]

They probably learned what they know about medicine from ER and General Hospital. They probably have no idea how boring it can get doing 10K hernias over a career.

 

[63768]

surgery rocks.

i've never heard this mantra, nor do i believe it. i just know surgery is the thing for me.

 

[Shredder]

curious...
I thought I'd ask after overhearing some students at say this when I was interviewing. I think its supposed to imply that other residencies aren't worth pursuing. seemed a bit narrowminded and an attempt to be elitist...
thoughts?

one thing about showing an interest in surgery is that nobody can ever tell you to become a researcher or a businessman instead. docs have sole rights to the surgery realm. i think surgerys pretty messy and will avoid it, but its nitty gritty doctorhood

 

[tacrum43]

curious...
I thought I'd ask after overhearing some students at say this when I was interviewing. I think its supposed to imply that other residencies aren't worth pursuing. seemed a bit narrowminded and an attempt to be elitist...
thoughts?

That is really stupid and arrogant. I mean surgery is an important and difficulty specialty, but you need other specialists and generalists too. If all the non-surgical people "went home" the medical profession would collapse.

I wonder if the school where you overheard this was Columbia. I've heard their medical school referred to as the College of Surgeons and Surgeons.

 

[CTSballer11]

surgery rocks.

i've never heard this mantra, nor do i believe it. i just know surgery is the thing for me.

Yea it does, i am definately interested and hopefully I will be able to pursue it someday. My uncle is a surgeon and it is like he almost expects me to go into surgery if i get into medical school. I can see where some of those med students are coming from.

 

[pagemmapants]

Bah, "specialties" in medicine are as much social clubs as fraternities are in Undergrad, and plenty of interspecialty ribbing takes place. You'd better get used to it. 🙂

How do you hide a $100 bill from an Orthopaedic Surgeon?
Put it in a medical journal.

 

[CTSballer11]

Bah, "specialties" in medicine are as much social clubs as fraternities are in Undergrad, and plenty of interspecialty ribbing takes place. You'd better get used to it. 🙂

How do you hide a $100 bill from an Orthopaedic Surgeon?
Put it in a medical journal.

lol, how do you hide a $100 bill from a surgeon?
Tape it to his kids forhead.

 

[attaboybambeeks]

lol, how do you hide a $100 bill from a surgeon?
Tape it to his kids forhead.

Whats the highest salary you've ever heard a surgeon make...just from surgeries?

 

[The Remix]

I doubt it, there were only about 5 people from last year's graduating class who went into gensurg residencies.

That is really stupid and arrogant. I mean surgery is an important and difficulty specialty, but you need other specialists and generalists too. If all the non-surgical people "went home" the medical profession would collapse.

I wonder if the school where you overheard this was Columbia. I've heard their medical school referred to as the College of Surgeons and Surgeons.

 

[CTSballer11]

Whats the highest salary you've ever heard a surgeon make...just from surgeries?

Most general surgeons make anywhere from 200-400K, depending on your location, practice type, and other variables. Most expereinced general surgeons make around 300K a year. My uncle is a CT surgeon and he used to be making over 700k a year but, the salaries of CT surgeons have really dropped in the last 5-10 years. I think the highest paid surgeons are spine surgeons (ortho and Neuro). I saw average salaries from 600k-1.2million.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

How do they select surgical residents?

Well they take a med school class, and the top 50% gets to select their specialty, while the bottom 50% is pithed. Those that can crawl away go into gastroenterology, hematology, gerentology, and *shudders* family practice. Those who can not crawl become surgeons.

Corrolary: Be nice to orthopedic surgeons. They're strong as oxen and almost as smart.

 

[funshine]

That is really stupid and arrogant. I mean surgery is an important and difficulty specialty, but you need other specialists and generalists too. If all the non-surgical people "went home" the medical profession would collapse..

It's a joke. I'm sure every other speciality has their own version.

I wonder if the school where you overheard this was Columbia. I've heard their medical school referred to as the College of Surgeons and Surgeons.

Really . Actually, the two surgeries I've observed were not messy at all. Aside from the area they're working with, the rest of the body was sealed off. They made this neat little incision and got the job done just working with a surprisingly small amount of area. They were just dealing with an inguinal hernia though, so all they had to do was take out part of the intestines and patch it up. I loved surgery because it clearly requires a lot of dexterity, and everything just looked so tidy and neat! I'm not kidding. I'd do it if the hours were better.

 

[Pewl]

Personally, I'm really into stereotactic radiosurgery. Most of my graduate work has been in this area. To me, there's something so primitive about using a knife to cut. I think it's so much more BAD@SS to use pinpoint precision high energy radiation to kill inoperable tumors. I'd definitely want to go into radiation oncology if I could! 🙂

 

[LabMonster]

How do they select surgical residents?

Well they take a med school class, and the top 50% gets to select their specialty, while the bottom 50% is pithed. Those that can crawl away go into gastroenterology, hematology, gerentology, and *shudders* family practice. Those who can not crawl become surgeons.

Corrolary: Be nice to orthopedic surgeons. They're strong as oxen and almost as smart.

As far as I know, Hematology is a competitive specialty - and you've got to know quite a bit. Then again, I could be wrong....

 

[63768]

Corrolary: Be nice to orthopedic surgeons. They're strong as oxen and almost as smart.

hey! i resent that. hahaha.

Whats the highest salary you've ever heard a surgeon make...just from surgeries?

well it's impossible for a surgeon to just perform surgeries. some of the money also comes from new patient/postop/followup visits. but let's see...the sports medicine orthopedic surgeon makes 400k-500k a year, spine guy i know makes 800k+ a year, hand surgeon makes 600k-700k (but he sees 1000 patients a month, no kidding), joint replacement guy makes 500k+.

this may not be exactly why i want to get into orthopedic surgery, but it's a damn good incentive.

 

[Karim]

Mmmm-hmmmm.

 

[BradenDO]

Wow! I can't imagine making *that* much money...that's insane! (But cool... 🙂 )

 

[DropkickMurphy]

hey! i resent that. hahaha.

LOL What makes it even funnier is that I was told that joke by the chief of surgery (an orthopedic surgeon) at one of the local hospitals. 👍 One of the smartest men I've ever met and an even better person.

 

[Orthodoc40]

hey! i resent that. hahaha.


well it's impossible for a surgeon to just perform surgeries. some of the money also comes from new patient/postop/followup visits. but let's see...the sports medicine orthopedic surgeon makes 400k-500k a year, spine guy i know makes 800k+ a year, hand surgeon makes 600k-700k (but he sees 1000 patients a month, no kidding), joint replacement guy makes 500k+.

this may not be exactly why i want to get into orthopedic surgery, but it's a damn good incentive.

If that is really why you want to go into ortho, I hope I'm not your patient ever. Take a more careful look at these stats guys - if you go into an academic setting, you won't be making anywhere NEAR those salaries!

 

[63768]

If that is really why you want to go into ortho, I hope I'm not your patient ever. Take a more careful look at these stats guys - if you go into an academic setting, you won't be making anywhere NEAR those salaries!

i never said it was why i wanted to go into ortho. we've had many a discussion on this board about money. i don't care if i'm making 100k or 500k. i like surgery, specifically ortho and i enjoy it and all the knowledge that comes with it.

don't be so quick to judge. i was simply listing out salaries i knew since CTSballer was talking about it. also yea i listed doctors' salaries for those that i currently work under and are solely dedicated to private practice. academians make much much less than private practice guys.

 

[dilated]

If that is really why you want to go into ortho, I hope I'm not your patient ever. Take a more careful look at these stats guys - if you go into an academic setting, you won't be making anywhere NEAR those salaries!

Actually, the very best academic surgeons get special arrangements and can make over a million dollars a year.

 

[CTSballer11]

Actually, the very best academic surgeons get special arrangements and can make over a million dollars a year.

Yep, but those are the exceptions. The avg academic surgeon will make less than the avg private practice surgeon.

 

[Pewl]

Do you guys have any idea how much radiation oncologists make?! The ones down here at Torrance Memorial MedCenter make about a million a year =P

 

[Law2Doc]

Do you guys have any idea how much radiation oncologists make?! The ones down here at Torrance Memorial MedCenter make about a million a year =P

If you are going into medicine with dreams of making a million a year, you are doomed to feel like a failure.

 

[Pewl]

If you are going into medicine with dreams of making a million a year, you are doomed to feel like a failure.

Heh, I just wanna make enough to be pretty comfortable (>$120k) or something would be fine =P

 

[Scalpellum]

Anyone know how much plastic/reconstructive surgeons make on average?

 

[Long Dong]

Anyone know how much plastic/reconstructive surgeons make on average?

My father maded 450k a year working for kiaser, would probably make double that if he was in private. But when he retired they give him 225k a year for 20 years.

But has anyone heard the mantra go derm or bust like a pimple trying?

 

[Orthodoc40]

Actually, the very best academic surgeons get special arrangements and can make over a million dollars a year.

But privates have to pay a big price for malpractice insurance - especially in ortho. 😱

 

[63768]

But privates have to pay a big price for malpractice insurance - especially in ortho. 😱

and this is made easier by obtaining insurance as a group of doctors.

 

[Orthodoc40]

and this is made easier by obtaining insurance as a group of doctors.

Definitely. But read up on it (if you haven't, I mean). Some states are making surgeons pay over $250K a year for insurance.

 

[attaboybambeeks]

Definitely. But read up on it (if you haven't, I mean). Some states are making surgeons pay over $250K a year for insurance.

Someone i know well is ortho private practice. pays 40K a year in the state of CA for malpractice. Its about 2.5% of his pre-tax annuity.
malpractice will come down.

 

[aamartin81]

and this is made easier by obtaining insurance as a group of doctors.

Premiums are paid on a per physician basis. The amount you pay does not vary with the size of the group (unfortunately). Premiums vary based on location, history (sometimes) and coverage. Most states have only a handful of providers that offer malpractice insurance.

As for premiums coming down in the future, without the intervention of regulatory bodies (Congress, State Legislature, etc...) this will not occur. Costs rise with time (i.e. inflation).

 

[Ross434]

Someone i know well is ortho private practice. pays 40K a year in the state of CA for malpractice. Its about 2.5% of his pre-tax annuity.
malpractice will come down.

Yeah, one thing people forget is that you pay malpractice before taxes, and you pay it out of your practice's revenue, not out of your income. The average surgeon brings in nearly a $Million/year in revenue. (Your average 250k income is what's left *after* you take out operating expenses, staff salaries, and malpractice insurance)

 

[Orthodoc40]

Someone i know well is ortho private practice. pays 40K a year in the state of CA for malpractice. Its about 2.5% of his pre-tax annuity.
malpractice will come down.

I think TIME did a whole article on this last year & gave numbers for malpractice premiums around $250K/year for some specialties in certain states? There was a neurosurgeon interviewed that said his premium was higher than his income (which was why he was moving to another state...)

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

4 MDs got together and decided to spend the weekend duck-hunting: an internal medicine doc, a family practice doc, a pathologist, and a surgeon.

The FP doc was up first. A bird approached, and the FP doc raised his gun. Then he quickly lowered it as the bird flew by, and by the time he raised his gun again, the bird was gone. "What happened?" the other docs asked. "Well," he replied, "At first I thought it was duck, but then as it got closer, I thought it might be a goose, and by the time I realized it actually WAS a duck, it was gone."

Next up was the internal medicine doc. As the ducks approached, the IM doc took aim. "Rule out pheasant, rule out goose," he said, and shot a duck from the sky.

3rd to go was the surgeon, and another flock approached. As soon as they were in range, he started firing wildly in all directions, blasting ducks out of the sky left and right. He recovered one of the ducks, handed it to the pathologist, and said "Tell me what this was."

 

[63768]

Premiums are paid on a per physician basis. The amount you pay does not vary with the size of the group (unfortunately). Premiums vary based on location, history (sometimes) and coverage. Most states have only a handful of providers that offer malpractice insurance.

As for premiums coming down in the future, without the intervention of regulatory bodies (Congress, State Legislature, etc...) this will not occur. Costs rise with time (i.e. inflation).

i actually work for a group of six orthopedic surgeons and when i've asked about malpractice they've all said that it is cheaper to get it as a group. are you saying these guys are lying to me? i really can't see how filing as single and filing as a group could be the same. why would doctors aggregate then? there becomes a sharing of cost, space, overhead that could be eliminated as a singular practice.

and it makes sense. with health insurance, buying as a company and insuring one's workers is much better and cheaper than going individually.

also LOL at wholelottagame's joke.

 

[Shredder]

4 MDs got together and decided to spend the weekend duck-hunting: an internal medicine doc, a family practice doc, a pathologist, and a surgeon.

The FP doc was up first. A bird approached, and the FP doc raised his gun. Then he quickly lowered it as the bird flew by, and by the time he raised his gun again, the bird was gone. "What happened?" the other docs asked. "Well," he replied, "At first I thought it was duck, but then as it got closer, I thought it might be a goose, and by the time I realized it actually WAS a duck, it was gone."

Next up was the internal medicine doc. As the ducks approached, the IM doc took aim. "Rule out pheasant, rule out goose," he said, and shot a duck from the sky.

3rd to go was the surgeon, and another flock approached. As soon as they were in range, he started firing wildly in all directions, blasting ducks out of the sky left and right. He recovered one of the ducks, handed it to the pathologist, and said "Tell me what this was."

heheh...i havent heard that one before. it would be a good one to pull in an interview, as i hear jokes are sometimes asked for. but its hard to remember, perhaps best told via internet

 

[Chinorean]

heheh...i havent heard that one before. it would be a good one to pull in an interview, as i hear jokes are sometimes asked for. but its hard to remember, perhaps best told via internet

Whoahhh that might not be a good joke to tell, some people might find that insulting!

 

[Shredder]

thats kind of true...but its just a joke. maybe the interviewers field should be taken into consideration

 

[aamartin81]

i actually work for a group of six orthopedic surgeons and when i've asked about malpractice they've all said that it is cheaper to get it as a group. are you saying these guys are lying to me? i really can't see how filing as single and filing as a group could be the same. why would doctors aggregate then? there becomes a sharing of cost, space, overhead that could be eliminated as a singular practice.

and it makes sense. with health insurance, buying as a company and insuring one's workers is much better and cheaper than going individually.

I'm not trying to start a thread of one-upping each other, but I just wrote the malpractice check for the practice where I work. You are correct, there are lower costs associated with doctors joining groups. Those apply to synergistic opportunities to decrease administrative overhead/physician. The only discounts offered by malpractice insurers (those with whom I've had direct contact) are for payment in full, a physician's completion of specific training courses or seminars, and/or administrative review seminars for office employees. There is nothing offered based solely on the number of physicians for whom you are negotiating coverage. I do not think the doctors with whom you work lied to you. I think you may have misunderstood what they said (though I do not claim to have any direct experience with insurance providers outside my state/region).

Adam