Has anyone not been able to get into the specialty that they would like?

[disque71]

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I am wondering how prevalent this is, and is it a major concern of current med students?

 

[Taus]

It happens, but I would bet that the ones most concerned with this are the ones that desire to go into insanely competative specialties (ie Derm, plastics, ent, optho, rad onc, etc). There are not a lot of spots in those specialties and you really have to be the "cream of the crop" to have a chance at getting in. Also realize that there is much "self-selection" in those specialties, ie the students w/o the grades to make a run at them don't usually apply for them in the first place. That self selection scews the reported numbers of unmatched/matched %'s in some of the above specialties. Bottom line is that if you apply smartly and you are a US graduate, you will likely get the specialty that you desire....as long as its not one of the afore-mentioned ones...

 

[khalad]

Anybody able to share what you did instead if you didn't get into a competitive program?

I'm interestd in those programs myself and obviously I don't bank on getting in for sure, I just wanted to know what kind of backup plans people usually have.

 

[disque71]

It happens, but I would bet that the ones most concerned with this are the ones that desire to go into insanely competative specialties (ie Derm, plastics, ent, optho, rad onc, etc). There are not a lot of spots in those specialties and you really have to be the "cream of the crop" to have a chance at getting in. Also realize that there is much "self-selection" in those specialties, ie the students w/o the grades to make a run at them don't usually apply for them in the first place. That self selection scews the reported numbers of unmatched/matched %'s in some of the above specialties. Bottom line is that if you apply smartly and you are a US graduate, you will likely get the specialty that you desire....as long as its not one of the afore-mentioned ones...

how does cardiology look lately?

 

[trunksvegeta]

I was wondering the same thing...
someone once told me that if u REALLY want to get into the residency of your choice,,,u will. I guess this means, u will try your best to do well in school, the boards, and ECs to gear yourself towards a particular residency....

Someone once said that if you want a competitive residency eg ortho or radiology onco and are just average...u can still go into something like internal medicine and do a year or so and apply from there after you've got some experience under your belt,,,forgot the name of that route.

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

It happens, but I would bet that the ones most concerned with this are the ones that desire to go into insanely competative specialties (ie Derm, plastics, ent, optho, rad onc, etc). There are not a lot of spots in those specialties and you really have to be the "cream of the crop" to have a chance at getting in. Also realize that there is much "self-selection" in those specialties, ie the students w/o the grades to make a run at them don't usually apply for them in the first place. That self selection scews the reported numbers of unmatched/matched %'s in some of the above specialties. Bottom line is that if you apply smartly and you are a US graduate, you will likely get the specialty that you desire....as long as its not one of the afore-mentioned ones...

How do specialties like rads and gas fall on the spectrum? What about ortho, is that considered just as insanely competitive as derm and plastics or is it only mildy-extremely competititve?

Oh, and while I'm shooting questions out: Is it generally a rule of thumb that california residencies are harder to attain than others?

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

I was wondering the same thing...
someone once told me that if u REALLY want to get into the residency of your choice,,,u will. I guess this means, u will try your best to do well in school, the boards, and ECs to gear yourself towards a particular residency....

Someone once said that if you want a competitive residency eg ortho or radiology onco and are just average...u can still go into something like internal medicine and do a year or so and apply from there after you've got some experience under your belt,,,forgot the name of that route.

Someone once told me that I can have whatever flavor ice cream I want, as long as I want vanilla.

 

[Taus]

In all honesty you will probably get the most accurate answers in the residency forums. They can give you a clearer picture of what it takes to get into whatever specialty you are interested in.

 

[Koko]

How do specialties like rads and gas fall on the spectrum? What about ortho, is that considered just as insanely competitive as derm and plastics or is it only mildy-extremely competititve?

Oh, and while I'm shooting questions out: Is it generally a rule of thumb that california residencies are harder to attain than others?

Rads and ortho are very competitive, but plastics and derm are more so. Gas is competetive, but the least of the bunch you mention.

Cali, from what I understand, is harder to get into versus other states, especially if you don't have ties. You'll have to see if one of those surfer types will answer your question for the straight dope.

 

[Koko]

In all honesty you will probably get the most accurate answers in the residency forums. They can give you a clearer picture of what it takes to get into whatever specialty you are interested in.

True

 

[NIQ]

Applied for 10 spots in radiology, interviews at 3 :/

 

[skypilot]

I think if you are willing to go anywhere in the country to train most residencies are achievable. Certainly any US grad who is willing to go anywhere just as long as they match can get Gas or EM. Even Rads is doable if you apply to the less desirable locations.

Cardiology of course, is post internal medicine so you don't match into Cardiology out of med school and your med school performance is not as relevant.

 

[bigred001]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned neurosurgery? Isn't that considered to be the most competitive specialty, alongside derm?

 

[Wahoos]

Hey Disque,

I just went through the Orthopedics match process last yr and I can give you my perspective on the competitiveness of these specialities (just from talking to my friends and seeing them apply last year).

I say the most competitve residencies are Derm, integrated Plastics, ENT, and Orthopedics. Out of those 3, Integrated Plastics probably have the highest unmatched rate. When you apply to these sub spec, you are looking at 100+ applications per spot. Unually the programs will interview 10 people per spot. Most Ortho programs have 3-5 spots, they interview 40 or so applicants out of the 400+ apps to get the spots. Almost all the programs will have a cut off for the USMLE step I (like the MCAT cut off) at about 225 to 230 which is around the 65-70% percentile. Plus you have to have other things in your app like research, AOA will help alot, excellent grades, excellent Recs, and for Ortho, you are most likely to match at your home program or the places that you rotated. There was about 580 spots last yr for Ortho with 1100-1200 applications. Unmatch rate for US seniors is about 20-25%. I know a couple of people with 240+ step I, excellent grades, and excellent recs, that did not match Ortho last year. (they were not tools) And I have heard these stories over and over again during the interview trail last year.

As for Derm and Plastics, I know they are very competitive as well,... However, the personality and type of applicant that apply to Derm/Plastics are a little different than the type that attacts to Ortho. 🙂

Neurosurg is not as competitive as the above, no one in my class applied last yr. Less and less people want to pursue NS these days due to life style factors.

Anes is not that competitive, my roommate applied to it last yr, I know his stats, and he was pretty much average in everything, slightly above for the step I, coming from a top 20 US medical school, received many interviews, about 15 out of the 20 places that he applied.

Optho/Urology is competitive as well. Don't know much about the match rate or the application process.

Radiology is competitive, however, there were >10 spots that went unmatched last year for radiology. Out of the 580 spots in Ortho, only 1 spot was open for scramble.

Also someone mentioned that if you REALLY want to get into an spec you will. That is not completely true, I have known a few people that tried orthopedics at least 2-3 yrs in a row after doing research or prelim surgery yr, and still no cigar. SO they have all switched to something else, EM x 2, and Gen Surg x 1.

Also if you want to do Plastics surg after Gen surg, it is still very competitive, and getting more and more competitive every yr. The fellowship program where I am doing residency, received 200+ apps from General Surgery Chiefs last year for 2 spots. Also, all of the surgical sub spec have became much more comptitive in the last 2-3 yrs, esp due to the 80 hours work wk restriction. The yr that I applied to Ortho, almost all the programs that I went to had said that they received 100 more apps that yr than any others in the past. My home program, UVA, had 600+ apps for 5 spots last yr. Things will not change as more and more people are pursuing surgical sub spec, even Gen Surg programs are filling up. In 2001, over 25% of the General surgery spots were unamtched, 250 out of 1000 spots or so. Last yr, only 10-15 spots were open after the match.

I just took a look at the excel sheet post below of competitivness of residencies. That sheet is put out by a U of Maimi med student, and has many flaws. The sheet says Ortho is 78.2 and Gen Surg is 80.2...... I can tell you that Ortho is not only 2 points above Gen surg in competitiveness.

 

[deuist]

Download this excel file: Competitiveness. It tells you the percentage of people who matched into each field last year, along with the spots:applicant ratio. Notice that rad onc, derm (PGY-1), rads (PGY-1), neurosurg, optho, ENT, plastics, and urology are the hardest to get into. The easiest are general surgery, path, peds, psych, internal med, ob/gyn, thoracic surgery, family practice, genetics, and preventative medicine. In the middle are ortho, physical med, EM, anesthesiology, and a few PGY-2 specialties.

 

[deuist]

how does cardiology look lately?

77% of American applicants matched into cardiology last year, making it the most competitive fellowship for internal medicine.

If you have any more questions, please see AAMC's Careers in Medicine website.

 

[dz88]

Wahoos: when you say certain personalities, could you explain a little?

 

[21JumpStreet]

I was wondering the same thing...
someone once told me that if u REALLY want to get into the residency of your choice,,,u will. I guess this means, u will try your best to do well in school, the boards, and ECs to gear yourself towards a particular residency....

Someone once said that if you want a competitive residency eg ortho or radiology onco and are just average...u can still go into something like internal medicine and do a year or so and apply from there after you've got some experience under your belt,,,forgot the name of that route.

I think you might be referring to a transitional residency program. It is usually one year in length. It prepares you for a categorial residency program and also prepares those that are going to serve time in a health service program.