Have 30 W's! How much does it hurt me?

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bjt223

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Over the course of 5 years, I have drop about 30 classes and have 30 W's. I took a year off, went work full time, came back to school and got an overall 3.5 SGPA, 3.3 CGPA, and 36 MCAT. How much does those W's will hurt me?
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What types of classes are the W's in? I would think if you could explain it, that should be fine.
 
Half of them belong to science classes and other half belong to non-science classes. I was indecisive in my younger years, but now I finally realize the path I want to gear toward. If I am honest to them, how much would that hurt me?
 
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In my experience, DO schools are quite forgiving, if you have a good explanation. Plus, they only factor in the last retake for GPA calculation. With a GPA like yours, you may want to consider DO's, despite your excellent MCAT score.
 
What the HECK? How did you get 30 W's? I can see like 10 maybe, but 30?

I really want to know how this happened. That's like... almost dropping every schedule for 3 years straight and getting an entirely new schedule each semester.
 
MD is probably out of the cards for you unless you can provide a REALLY good explanation of what happened.
 
bjt223 said:
Over the course of 5 years, I have drop about 30 classes and have 30 W's. I took a year off, went work full time, came back to school and got an overall 3.5 SGPA, 3.3 CGPA, and 36 MCAT. How much does those W's will hurt me?
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I disagree that MD has almost no chance. You WILL need to explain all the Ws though. Also, how many consecutive semesters do you have with NO drops? What is your GPA during that time? If you have recent drops, you may need to have a few more semesters of full course loads while getting good grades and no Ws for any MD schools to take a chance on you, but if you have a significant period of high grades and no drops, you can talk about how you got your act together once you figured out what you wanted to do. That along with that MCAT will probably convince at least a few schools that you are not going to crash and burn if they admit you.
 
How on earth do you even manage that. MD is more than likely out of the question, unless you had some SERIOUS medical illness and for some reason enrolled in more courses (god knows why)
 
bjt223 said:
Over the course of 5 years, I have drop about 30 classes and have 30 W's. I took a year off, went work full time, came back to school and got an overall 3.5 SGPA, 3.3 CGPA, and 36 MCAT. How much does those W's will hurt me?
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Your GPA is subpar despite having 30 Ws. Naivete isn't a good excuse since you could've dropped the class. I'd forget about MD and strictly apply DO. Unless you had a chronic illness, you really have no excuse.
 
You'd have to have a really good explanation even for DO and you'd probably have to have years without any Ws at all. But as long as there's a consistent trend I think you should apply MD as well. Why not take another year and raise your GPA even more while showing you don't have to withdraw?
 
If you had some illness and had to drop complete semesters maybe you would have a shot. The 36 MCAT is great--gpa is subpar. I think if you take 2 years of straight classes (no drops!) and do well you could have a shot at MD.
 
I'd say MD is still a possibility, but only if you registered for 30 courses in one semester and then withdrew from all of them...and it was more than two years ago. :nod:

Considering that's not the case, you instead have a pattern of W's in your coursework. There are two factors I suspect AdComms will consider before rejecting you. First, why on Earth did you have to withdraw from 30 courses? Second, and this is perhaps more important, how many semesters have passed since you last withdrew from a course? If this were a case of medical leave or bereavement, I would expect you to have at most 4-8 W's. But maybe I am wrong.

AdComms understand that sometimes plans change or things come up -- for example I took a W this summer so that I could pursue a fancy research stipend. I don't think anyone would mind that, and in my case it was definitely worth it. But if you have a pattern of withdrawing from a course or two every semester, imagine what an AdComm might think. There are no opportunities to withdraw from a course in medical school. If you instead fail, you may get a chance to remediate once and that's it. How much confidence will they have if you've dropped on average... 3 courses a semester??? (If we include summers, it's still 2 courses a semester/summer.)

You MUST get at least 1-2 years of full-time coursework under your belt -- with no withdrawals -- before you apply MD. (I have not applied DO and don't know much about AACOMAS or the admissions process.)
 
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30 W's will most definitely reflect your lack of resolve and will force both DO and MD schools to second-guess your ability to survive through medical school. I hope that you have a good explanation for those W's because otherwise, it seems like you will have a hard time getting into any medical school.
 
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Unless you got seriously ill many times and had to withdraw from entire semesters several times, I don't see any way you could explain away 30 W's. And even if you did have a legit medical problem that caused those W's, it will need to be one that has little chance of recurring again.
 
First of all, this is true. I have compile 30 W's on my transcript.

Second of all, the reason I compile 30 W's because over the time in those 5 years, life just taken a hit on me. I switched major 3 times, fell in to depression in a span of two years because my friend's and my dad's death. I was never a great student from the beginning so when I tried to get my grades together, it was a struggle because I was trying a lot of things to get a better studying habits. Lastly, my family was almost bankrupt so I end up dropping majority classes to help my mother to pay the bill.
These times really humble me.

In the end after I transferred from community college to a 4-years, I managed to get straight A's (3.8 GPA) throughout my upper division courses and I have NO DROPS in those time spans.

So basically my life story in a nutshell.
 
I think it will require some explanation but given the growth you've demonstrated in the recent years it will probably not be a complete deal breaker. Most secondary applications have a box where you can explain things like this. Just be very careful when using words like "depression".
 
bjt223 said:
First of all, this is true. I have compile 30 W's on my transcript.

Second of all, the reason I compile 30 W's because over the time in those 5 years, life just taken a hit on me. I switched major 3 times, fell in to depression in a span of two years because my friend's and my dad's death. I was never a great student from the beginning so when I tried to get my grades together, it was a struggle because I was trying a lot of things to get a better studying habits. Lastly, my family was almost bankrupt so I end up dropping majority classes to help my mother to pay the bill.
These times really humble me.

In the end after I transferred from community college to a 4-years, I managed to get straight A's (3.8 GPA) throughout my upper division courses and I have NO DROPS in those time spans.

So basically my life story in a nutshell.
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Sounds like a beast personal statement.

They'll see your GPA and MCAT first, and then the W's. You'll have a chance to explain it. I think you've got a shot MD. Apply both DO and MD.

Also, props man. That's some tough stuff. Keep your head up and it'll be alright
 
You'll have to explain it well, and even then, it may bar you from some MD schools. Having said that, if you don't make excuses and don't act embarrassed about your academic past, you will be find for some MD schools and most, if not all, DO schools.
 
Well yeah, I kind of figure that I would need a GPA boost. So probably applying at SMPs or Post-Bacc. Thanks for the advice guys .
 
Bear Grylls said:
Sounds like a beast personal statement.

They'll see your GPA and MCAT first, and then the W's. You'll have a chance to explain it. I think you've got a shot MD. Apply both DO and MD.

Also, props man. That's some tough stuff. Keep your head up and it'll be alright
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I thought you weren't really supposed to address negatives in your application in your PS. I've always been confused by this recommendation since it seems like a lot of people go through some struggles and journey to arrive at the decision to be a doctor, so why shouldn't you confess to struggling in your PS?
 
rain4venus said:
I thought you weren't really supposed to address negatives in your application in your PS. I've always been confused by this recommendation since it seems like a lot of people go through some struggles and journey to arrive at the decision to be a doctor, so why shouldn't you confess to struggling in your PS?
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You're not supposed to address them specifically per se, but it's an integral part of the OP's life story, which is what a personal statement is. He can't say he faced these challenges and not mention how it did or did not affect his school work.
 
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30 W's? Seems like the OP is exaggerating or something... that's like 3 years of courses or more.
 
It's true. I compile that much. I don't know how can I prove it to you. It's a long road for me.
 
Yeah I guess it's possible, honestly if that's true then I think it's going to be tough to explain since that's basically like if you withdrew from every course for every semester of college... how did the college even let you do that?
 
I do not know how the OP is going to be able to explain his or her deficiency adequately to the adcoms.

I had to withdraw for four semesters, and I doubt that this is going to fly well unless I work full time and take as many hours of coursework as possible for many years, and recover adequately from my chronic illness. Even with such a plan, and everything working out in my favor, the odds are against me, no matter how well I can explain the situation. :(
 
Good advice here so far... unless you were diagnosed and treated for depression, I'd recommend avoiding that word. Try something like "funk" in its place. If you were treated for depression, it could cause adcoms to worry that you will relapse and be unable to complete med school. In that case, just say, "I had some health issues".
30 Ws?? By my count that's the equivalent of >2 solid years of classes counting 1 credit labs and PE classes and stuff like that. It seems ridiculous but the story is coherent and you are an older applicant so it might not hurt you too much.
 
Op ppl have been pretty nice to u thus far. The only excuse for this I can think of is sickness, which won't help ur case cause I don't think med schools will take someone who has such a condition because as a doctor u need to be available and 30 W's just doesn't reflect that. If it isn't illness ur done. I know u said u were indecisive but just because u decided to change ur mind on ur career path multiple times doesn't excuse ur withdrawal from something. What u should have done is finish those semesters off (if ur getting W's then it means u waited until late in those semesters to change ur mind, and with 30 W's that's probably 5-6 semesters worth of classes). Such indecivesness doesn't promote confidence in schools because there is a good chance ull decide late in ur career that u no longer want to study medicine. And op I personally don't believe this, schools have drop limits and there is no way ur school has a 30 drop limit, even if u appealed I don't think they'd be that forgiving.
 
Write in your application that at your school, a 'W' means 'Winning'.

If you're lucky, they'll be so confused by the amount of W's on your transcript that they'll think, "this transcript is so incredible that it must be true".
 
I should also add that once u a drop a course and you get a W its typically past the deadline for dropping for a refund, so dropping still doesn't make much sense. If u paid and can't get your money back u might as well finish. I speak from the fact that at least in my school a W or two is ok, but after that your better off failing a class than continually racking them up. In the end I wish op the best and hope you get in somewhere. Good luck, youll need it.
 
OP, if you go the SMP or post-bacc route and you drop, it's over. Just remember that.

I am in a similar situation as you, but I am really going to have to prove myself capable.
 
Thank you for the advice everyone.

The reason I was able to compile 30 W's because majority of classes are in various community college. At a time before my depression, I was really an idiot by trying to take 10 classes per semester because of my bad start and etc. I was trying to transfer to a more prestige school, but I obviously fail on it. Instead, I finally give up trying that instead focus on my classes little by little and turn out, it was a success.

I understand my situation after I transferred. I can't have one more W's or else I'm done. I was well aware my consequences. I really don't know how I am going to explain to Acdoms, but I will not use an illness as an excuse. I guess my only way is to be perfect honest with them and try the best I can to instill confidence that I am a different person than I was 3 years ago. They can see it with my straight A's on my upper division courses and MCAT score. I think I have a good case as long I showed upward trend and improvement within my life. I am really hopeful for this, it would be a shame if I fail from this point on.
 
You were registerd for 10 classes per term? That is a big difference than my assumption that you were registering for 15-17 credits and about 5 or 6 courses. This might not be as bad as it seemed at the start.
 
bjt223 said:
First of all, this is true. I have compile 30 W's on my transcript.

Second of all, the reason I compile 30 W's because over the time in those 5 years, life just taken a hit on me. I switched major 3 times, fell in to depression in a span of two years because my friend's and my dad's death. I was never a great student from the beginning so when I tried to get my grades together, it was a struggle because I was trying a lot of things to get a better studying habits. Lastly, my family was almost bankrupt so I end up dropping majority classes to help my mother to pay the bill.
These times really humble me.

In the end after I transferred from community college to a 4-years, I managed to get straight A's (3.8 GPA) throughout my upper division courses and I have NO DROPS in those time spans.

So basically my life story in a nutshell.
Click to expand...

There is inconsistency to the story. First you blame the drops on switching your major 3 times, then the very unfortunate death of your friend and your dad (I'm sorry to hear that), you were never a great student, then your family being almost bankrupt (again, I am sorry to hear that), and then taking 10 courses per semester.

Somehow logic defies this situation. There are too many adverse situations and a lack of consistency involved with your story, and while I cannot give adcom-par advice, I would be concerned with that many stipulations on your end, with completing medical school.

And I *almost* feel like you are trolling, except I have withdrawn multiple semesters due to a rare chronic illness, so I feel like you may be looking for help. But, the story is inconsistent.
 
I hope you're trolling, if not your life is just a series of unfortunate events and hopefully applying to medical school goes well because you're in for some good after so much bad
 
I've got 10-12 and I haven't had a problem. No one has asked anything except to make sure that I'm healthy again. That being said, that's not even close to 30, but I'd still give it a shot. Killer MCAT score might help you out, there.
 
akaMondo said:
I've got 10-12 and I haven't had a problem. No one has asked anything except to make sure that I'm healthy again. That being said, that's not even close to 30, but I'd still give it a shot. Killer MCAT score might help you out, there.
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But his MCAT is not killer by any means.
 
inycepoo said:
But his MCAT is not killer by any means.
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36 is pretty damn good? Did you mean his GPA or are you just being classic SDN right now? LEL 36 MCAT AVERAGE

GPA is kind of low, yeah. I have a 3.6 and 37 with like 10+ W's and have had no problems. Suppose OP is in a worse situation than I am, but I just wanted to encourage him/her a bit. I thought my application was donezo reading the forums here, that no school would want me on paper because of the W's and lower GPA, but I've had a pretty successful cycle. If OP can explain the W's, has good EC's, and has an upward-trending GPA they might be able to snag an acceptance.
 
What State do you live in? Here in TX you're not even allowed more than 6 drops I believe...
 
akaMondo said:
36 is pretty damn good? Did you mean his GPA or are you just being classic SDN right now? LEL 36 MCAT AVERAGE

GPA is kind of low, yeah. I have a 3.6 and 37 with like 10+ W's and have had no problems. Suppose OP is in a worse situation than I am, but I just wanted to encourage him/her a bit. I thought my application was donezo reading the forums here, that no school would want me on paper because of the W's and lower GPA, but I've had a pretty successful cycle. If OP can explain the W's, has good EC's, and has an upward-trending GPA they might be able to snag an acceptance.
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A 36 MCAT is "pretty damn good," but that does not equate "killer." This is extremely subjective, yes, but I think the word "killer" should be reserved for scores that would make an application mind-boggling, and a 36 definitely isn't it. I would consider >38 as "killer."
 
I don't get why some of you guys assume I am a troll. I don't come here to waste my time to write a makeup life story. Just cause some of you guys have a hard time comprehend my initial post doesn't make me a troll.

I could give you guys my very long life story behind it, but I rather keep it private.

Let me piece and glue it together for you guys.

Okay the first two years, I started out as an indecisive person and was not ready for college. I switch major three times during that time spans. I drop 10 classes (4 on Fall, 4 on spring, 2 on summer). I really have no idea what would I want to do. The reason I drop the class because I haven't mature and was not doing well. My GPA was 2.1 after 40 units. On my third year, I panic a bit. I was worn out from the community college experiences and want to transfer as soon as possible to a prestige university. So in my third year, I took 6 GE classes over the summer, 10 classes including major prerequiste classes over the Fall. The reason I was able to add in more classes because I took some classes at different community college. It was not a good idea as I end up dropping 10 classes (summer and fall combine) and only passes 6 classes total with overall GPA of 2.5. If you guys keeping count, I dropped a total of 20 classes as of then. On the spring, I took 5 classes after I learn my lessons. However, I witness my friend's death in late of the semester and fall in deep funk. I never recover and end up drop all 5 classes. I used the summer at the time to grief. On the fourth year in the Fall, I took 5 classes. However, due to my luck, my father (which I have estrange relationship with) died suddenly and the financial begin to crumple as my mother have to pay my dad's debt. Suddenly, I have to drop all 5 classes again and take a full time job to help my mom. In total, I dropped 30 classes within 4 years.

In the spring of my fourth year, I took 4 classes with a full time job and pull out a 2.8 GPA. In the summer, I took 2 more classes and pull out a 2.9 GPA. In fall of 5th year of community college, I pull out a 3.0 GPA. I was only good enough for my state school.

When I transferred to state school, I got my life together and was able to pull all 4 semesters of A's and pull out a 4.0 of my upper divisions. I score well on my MCAT and now this is where I am at.

So there, I hope you guys all understand where I am coming from.
 
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bjt223 said:
I don't get why some of you guys assume I am a troll. I don't come here to waste my time to write a makeup life story. Just cause some of you guys have a hard time comprehend my initial post doesn't make me a troll.

I could give you guys my very long life story behind it, but I rather keep it private.

Let me piece and glue it together for you guys.

Okay the first two years, I started out as an indecisive person and was not ready for college. I switch major three times during that time spans. I drop 10 classes (4 on Fall, 4 on spring, 2 on summer). I really have no idea what would I want to do. The reason I drop the class because I haven't mature and was not doing well. My GPA was 2.1 after 40 units. On my third year, I panic a bit. I was worn out from the community college experiences and want to transfer as soon as possible to a prestige university. So in my third year, I took 6 GE classes over the summer, 10 classes including major prerequiste classes over the Fall. The reason I was able to add in more classes because I took some classes at different community college. It was not a good idea as I end up dropping 10 classes (summer and fall combine) and only passes 6 classes total with overall GPA of 2.5. If you guys keeping count, I dropped a total of 20 classes as of then. On the spring, I took 5 classes after I learn my lessons. However, I witness my friend's death in late of the semester and fall in deep funk. I never recover and end up drop all 5 classes. I used the summer at the time to grief. On the fourth year in the Fall, I took 5 classes. However, due to my luck, my father (which I have estrange relationship with) died suddenly and the financial begin to crumple as my mother have to pay my dad's debt. Suddenly, I have to drop all 5 classes again and take a full time job to help my mom. In total, I dropped 30 classes within 4 years.

In the spring of my fourth year, I took 4 classes with a full time job and pull out a 2.8 GPA. In the summer, I took 2 more classes and pull out a 2.9 GPA. In fall of 5th year of community college, I pull out a 3.0 GPA. I was only good enough for my state school.

When I transferred to state school, I got my life together and was able to pull all 4 semesters of A's and pull out a 4.0 of my upper divisions. I score well on my MCAT and now this is where I am at.

So there, I hope you guys all understand where I am coming from.
Click to expand...

Well its great than that you were able to end the last 4 semesters on a good note. But the problem is in your first statement about how indecisive you were. The inherent problem you face has been reflected in ppl's responses to your dilemma. 90 % of people hearing your story are going to be skeptical. The remaining 10 % that your able to convince aren't going to be confident in your ability to finish.
What some ppl such as myself are trying to do is temper your expectations (we don't want to butter you up with words of meaningless support only to have reality drop a bomb on you come application time, you need to understand that in your situation medical school is going to be a long shot, but if you work hard as reflected in your last few semesters and take some time to really build your app, i honestly think you need four good years to repair this, then its definetly possible) I wish you the best of luck! :welcome:
 
medschoolmyname said:
Well its great than that you were able to end the last 4 semesters on a good note. But the problem is in your first statement about how indecisive you were. The inherent problem you face has been reflected in ppl's responses to your dilemma. 90 % of people hearing your story are going to be skeptical. The remaining 10 % that your able to convince aren't going to be confident in your ability to finish.
What some ppl such as myself are trying to do is temper your expectations (we don't want to butter you up with words of meaningless support only to have reality drop a bomb on you come application time, you need to understand that in your situation medical school is going to be a long shot, but if you work hard as reflected in your last few semesters and take some time to really build your app, i honestly think you need four good years to repair this, then its definetly possible) I wish you the best of luck! :welcome:
Click to expand...

Thank you, I really appreciate everyone honest opinions. Not giving up my dream. :) Good luck to everyone!
 
bjt223 said:
I don't get why some of you guys assume I am a troll. I don't come here to waste my time to write a makeup life story. Just cause some of you guys have a hard time comprehend my initial post doesn't make me a troll.

I could give you guys my very long life story behind it, but I rather keep it private.

Let me piece and glue it together for you guys.

Okay the first two years, I started out as an indecisive person and was not ready for college. I switch major three times during that time spans. I drop 10 classes (4 on Fall, 4 on spring, 2 on summer). I really have no idea what would I want to do. The reason I drop the class because I haven't mature and was not doing well. My GPA was 2.1 after 40 units. On my third year, I panic a bit. I was worn out from the community college experiences and want to transfer as soon as possible to a prestige university. So in my third year, I took 6 GE classes over the summer, 10 classes including major prerequiste classes over the Fall. The reason I was able to add in more classes because I took some classes at different community college. It was not a good idea as I end up dropping 10 classes (summer and fall combine) and only passes 6 classes total with overall GPA of 2.5. If you guys keeping count, I dropped a total of 20 classes as of then. On the spring, I took 5 classes after I learn my lessons. However, I witness my friend's death in late of the semester and fall in deep funk. I never recover and end up drop all 5 classes. I used the summer at the time to grief. On the fourth year in the Fall, I took 5 classes. However, due to my luck, my father (which I have estrange relationship with) died suddenly and the financial begin to crumple as my mother have to pay my dad's debt. Suddenly, I have to drop all 5 classes again and take a full time job to help my mom. In total, I dropped 30 classes within 4 years.

In the spring of my fourth year, I took 4 classes with a full time job and pull out a 2.8 GPA. In the summer, I took 2 more classes and pull out a 2.9 GPA. In fall of 5th year of community college, I pull out a 3.0 GPA. I was only good enough for my state school.

When I transferred to state school, I got my life together and was able to pull all 4 semesters of A's and pull out a 4.0 of my upper divisions. I score well on my MCAT and now this is where I am at.

So there, I hope you guys all understand where I am coming from.
Click to expand...

Adamant denial of trollitude= TROLL
 
OP isn't a troll. I'm pretty sure he has posted about this in the past.
 
bjt223 said:
Over the course of 5 years, I have drop about 30 classes and have 30 W's. I took a year off, went work full time, came back to school and got an overall 3.5 SGPA, 3.3 CGPA, and 36 MCAT. How much does those W's will hurt me?
Click to expand...

Not at all. You're golden.
 
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