have to be a surgeon to do 1 yr. CC ?

[BMW19]

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Someone recently told me that you can do the 1yr surgical CC fellowship even as an IM doc. Is this true?

BMW-

 

[RxnMan]

Someone recently told me that you can do the 1yr surgical CC fellowship even as an IM doc. Is this true?

BMW-

There's some EM guys doing one year, but that's all I've ever heard of. I have heard of IM + ID + CC being 3 + 1 + 1.5 or something similar.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Someone recently told me that you can do the 1yr surgical CC fellowship even as an IM doc. Is this true?

BMW-

Not that I know of.

The SCC programs listed on NRMP require 3 years of General Surgery training to be eligible: http://www.nrmp.org/fellow/match_name/surg_crit_care/about.html

However, I know personally that the U of Md Shock Trauma program takes a few EM trained fellows each year and they list their requirements (for either the CC only, or Trauma only, Trauma + CC) as 3 years of general surgery or EM residency. I have not heard of any SCC programs taking an IM trained fellow. Check out the links on EAST for the programs: http://www.east.org (some of these are combined trauma and cc).

It would appear that to do a SURGICAL CC year you have to have some surgical training or training in procedures generally outside the realm of IM. There are plenty of non-surgical CC programs though.

 

[Danbo1957]

By the way, a doctor looking for work with an IM res plus a non-surgical CC fellowship looks really good to hospital administrators...

 

[JayneCobb]

Someone recently told me that you can do the 1yr surgical CC fellowship even as an IM doc. Is this true?

BMW-

I can't find any evidence that this is true. As far as I can find, For us IM folk, straight Critical Care is a 2 year fellowship.

 

[Danbo1957]

IMCC fellowship:

http://www.ccm.upmc.edu/education/adult/fellowship_imcc.html

Surgical Critical Care fellowship:

http://www.ccm.upmc.edu/education/adult/fellowship_scc.html

 

[BMW19]

Thanks for all the info guys. Anyone know where you can find a list of other 2 yr. CC fellowships without Pulm?

IMCC fellowship:

http://www.ccm.upmc.edu/education/adult/fellowship_imcc.html

Surgical Critical Care fellowship:

http://www.ccm.upmc.edu/education/adult/fellowship_scc.html

 

[JayneCobb]

From Frieda

Critical Care Medicine (IM)
California
Cedars-Sinai Medical Center Program
Los Angeles, California 142-05-11-005
University of California (San Francisco) Program
San Francisco, California 142-05-21-011
Stanford University Program
Stanford, California 142-05-21-013 District of Columbia
George Washington University Program
Washington, District of Columbia 142-10-21-103
National Capital Consortium (Walter Reed) Program
Washington, District of Columbia 142-10-21-125 Florida
Jackson Memorial Hospital/Jackson Health System Program
Miami, Florida 142-11-21-020
Louisiana
Louisiana State University (Shreveport) Program
Shreveport, Louisiana 142-21-21-032 Maryland
National Institutes of Health Clinical Center Program
Bethesda, Maryland 142-23-21-128
Michigan
Henry Ford Hospital Program
Detroit, Michigan 142-25-12-160
Minnesota
Hennepin County Medical Center Program
Minneapolis, Minnesota 142-26-21-118
College of Medicine Mayo Clinic (Rochester) Program
Rochester, Minnesota 142-26-21-100
Missouri
University of Missouri at Kansas City Program
Kansas City, Missouri 142-28-13-158
St Louis University School of Medicine Program
St Louis, Missouri 142-28-21-048
New Hampshire
Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center Program
Lebanon, New Hampshire 142-32-21-140
New Jersey
UMDNJ-Robert Wood Johnson Medical School (Camden) Program
Camden, New Jersey 142-33-21-051
Seton Hall University School of Graduate Medical Education Program
Newark, New Jersey 142-33-11-050
New Mexico
University of New Mexico Program
Albuquerque, New Mexico 142-34-21-053
New York
Albert Einstein College of Medicine Program
Bronx, New York 142-35-21-067
Maimonides Medical Center Program
Brooklyn, New York 142-35-11-056
Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center/New York Presbyterian Hospital (Cornell Campus) Program
New York, New York 142-35-21-064
Mount Sinai School of Medicine Program
New York, New York 142-35-31-060
New York Medical College at St Vincent's Hospital and Medical Center of New York Program
New York, New York 142-35-11-058
University of Rochester Program
Rochester, New York 142-35-21-141
North Carolina
Wake Forest University School of Medicine Program
Winston-Salem, North Carolina 142-36-21-069
Oregon
Oregon Health & Science University Program
Portland, Oregon 142-40-31-156
Pennsylvania
University of Pittsburgh Medical Center Medical Education Program
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 142-41-21-114
Puerto Rico
VA Caribbean Healthcare System Program
San Juan, Puerto Rico 142-42-12-157
Rhode Island
Brown University Program
Providence, Rhode Island 142-43-11-083
Texas
Baylor College of Medicine Program
Houston, Texas 142-48-21-091
Washington
University of Washington Program
Seattle, Washington 142-54-21-094

 

[KGUNNER1]

It would appear that to do a SURGICAL CC year you have to have some surgical training or training in procedures generally outside the realm of IM. There are plenty of non-surgical CC programs though.

The multidisciplinary critical care programs, like Univ of Pitt (not the pulm/cc) include fellows from all disciplines (Anesth, IM, EM, Surg). Peds is separate.

About 80% of the rotations are through surgical ICU's, for all fellows, regardless of the base training. The first year is almost identical between all the specialties. The only difference is the mandatory 3 months of OR time for the surgeons.

kg

 

[Winged Scapula]

The multidisciplinary critical care programs, like Univ of Pitt (not the pulm/cc) include fellows from all disciplines (Anesth, IM, EM, Surg). Peds is separate.

About 80% of the rotations are through surgical ICU's, for all fellows, regardless of the base training. The first year is almost identical between all the specialties. The only difference is the mandatory 3 months of OR time for the surgeons.

kg

Interesting...I didn't realize there were any true multidisciplinary programs. Does it lead to BE in surgical critical care or medical critical care? Thank you for the information. The OP was asking specifically about Surgical CC programs which is why that's what I responded with info about.

To be BE in SCC you only need 9 months, which allows for the 3 months of operative time for the surgery residents. Since the patient mix in a SICU is a bit different than in a MICU are there are possible concerns about going back into a MICU world after doing a SICU based fellowship?

 

[JayneCobb]

Interesting...I didn't realize there were any true multidisciplinary programs. Does it lead to BE in surgical critical care or medical critical care? Thank you for the information. The OP was asking specifically about Surgical CC programs which is why that's what I responded with info about.

It's my understanding (which could be wrong) that the Certification would be under the primary field of training. currently, EM does not have this as a Board eligible fellowship and this is why many are doing the European fellowship tract. There have been some push to bring CC under it's own umbrella and have a single entity certify it, but I've not seen anything which suggests that might happen soon.

 

[Winged Scapula]

It's my understanding (which could be wrong) that the Certification would be under the primary field of training. currently, EM does not have this as a Board eligible fellowship and this is why many are doing the European fellowship tract. There have been some push to bring CC under it's own umbrella and have a single entity certify it, but I've not seen anything which suggests that might happen soon.

That would make sense (BE in your primary field) as would a unified CC track.

Thanks for the info.

 

[KGUNNER1]

Interesting...I didn't realize there were any true multidisciplinary programs. Does it lead to BE in surgical critical care or medical critical care? Thank you for the information. The OP was asking specifically about Surgical CC programs which is why that's what I responded with info about.

To be BE in SCC you only need 9 months, which allows for the 3 months of operative time for the surgery residents. Since the patient mix in a SICU is a bit different than in a MICU are there are possible concerns about going back into a MICU world after doing a SICU based fellowship?

In the multidisciplinary program, each fellow is basically an equal when it comes to expectations, rotations, etc...

However, each separate base specialty is individually approved by the ACGME and each has their own program director to make sure all the RRC's rules and rec are followed for each one. The overall program is led by one "master" program director, who at Pitt, is also the IM/CC PD.

http://www.ccm.upmc.edu/education/adult/overview.html

So when a fellow is done, each one has fulfilled their own base specialty's requirements and the graduate is eligible for their respective cc board.

From and IM/CC perspective, they have to do 2 years, and in those 2 years enough time is spent in all the units that you feel pretty confident wherever you may end up. Of course there may be some unique aspects of Pulmonology that you may not appreciate as quickly if you would have done a pulm/cc fellowship, but overall, those IM/CC fellows gain so much experience working with post-op surgical patients that it outweighs some of the "missing" pulm rotations.

I don't think too many IM/CC grads from Pitt would be concerned with going back to a pure MICU. Many do. But I think most of us have come to appreciate the diversity and dynamics of the surgical ICUs.

Personally I enjoy the surgical units more than the medical. I also enjoy working with my surgeon colleagues so much more than I would if I were living in a vacuum in the closed MICU. But that's just my $0.02.

kg