have to be a surgeon to do 1 yr. CC ?

Discussion in 'Critical Care' started by BMW19, Jun 22, 2008.

  1. BMW19

    BMW19 Senior Member

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    Someone recently told me that you can do the 1yr surgical CC fellowship even as an IM doc. Is this true?

    BMW-
     
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  3. RxnMan

    RxnMan Who, me? A doctor?
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    There's some EM guys doing one year, but that's all I've ever heard of. I have heard of IM + ID + CC being 3 + 1 + 1.5 or something similar.
     
  4. Winged Scapula

    Winged Scapula Cougariffic!
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    Not that I know of.

    The SCC programs listed on NRMP require 3 years of General Surgery training to be eligible: http://www.nrmp.org/fellow/match_name/surg_crit_care/about.html

    However, I know personally that the U of Md Shock Trauma program takes a few EM trained fellows each year and they list their requirements (for either the CC only, or Trauma only, Trauma + CC) as 3 years of general surgery or EM residency. I have not heard of any SCC programs taking an IM trained fellow. Check out the links on EAST for the programs: http://www.east.org (some of these are combined trauma and cc).

    It would appear that to do a SURGICAL CC year you have to have some surgical training or training in procedures generally outside the realm of IM. There are plenty of non-surgical CC programs though.
     
  5. Danbo1957

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    By the way, a doctor looking for work with an IM res plus a non-surgical CC fellowship looks really good to hospital administrators...
     
  6. JayneCobb

    JayneCobb big damn hero....
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    I can't find any evidence that this is true. As far as I can find, For us IM folk, straight Critical Care is a 2 year fellowship.
     
  7. Danbo1957

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  8. BMW19

    BMW19 Senior Member

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  9. JayneCobb

    JayneCobb big damn hero....
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    From Frieda

    Critical Care Medicine (IM)
    California
    Cedars-Sinai Medical Center Program
    Los Angeles, California 142-05-11-005
    University of California (San Francisco) Program
    San Francisco, California 142-05-21-011
    Stanford University Program
    Stanford, California 142-05-21-013 District of Columbia
    George Washington University Program
    Washington, District of Columbia 142-10-21-103
    National Capital Consortium (Walter Reed) Program
    Washington, District of Columbia 142-10-21-125 Florida
    Jackson Memorial Hospital/Jackson Health System Program
    Miami, Florida 142-11-21-020
    Louisiana
    Louisiana State University (Shreveport) Program
    Shreveport, Louisiana 142-21-21-032 Maryland
    National Institutes of Health Clinical Center Program
    Bethesda, Maryland 142-23-21-128
    Michigan
    Henry Ford Hospital Program
    Detroit, Michigan 142-25-12-160
    Minnesota
    Hennepin County Medical Center Program
    Minneapolis, Minnesota 142-26-21-118
    College of Medicine Mayo Clinic (Rochester) Program
    Rochester, Minnesota 142-26-21-100
    Missouri
    University of Missouri at Kansas City Program
    Kansas City, Missouri 142-28-13-158
    St Louis University School of Medicine Program
    St Louis, Missouri 142-28-21-048
    New Hampshire
    Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center Program
    Lebanon, New Hampshire 142-32-21-140
    New Jersey
    UMDNJ-Robert Wood Johnson Medical School (Camden) Program
    Camden, New Jersey 142-33-21-051
    Seton Hall University School of Graduate Medical Education Program
    Newark, New Jersey 142-33-11-050
    New Mexico
    University of New Mexico Program
    Albuquerque, New Mexico 142-34-21-053
    New York
    Albert Einstein College of Medicine Program
    Bronx, New York 142-35-21-067
    Maimonides Medical Center Program
    Brooklyn, New York 142-35-11-056
    Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center/New York Presbyterian Hospital (Cornell Campus) Program
    New York, New York 142-35-21-064
    Mount Sinai School of Medicine Program
    New York, New York 142-35-31-060
    New York Medical College at St Vincent's Hospital and Medical Center of New York Program
    New York, New York 142-35-11-058
    University of Rochester Program
    Rochester, New York 142-35-21-141
    North Carolina
    Wake Forest University School of Medicine Program
    Winston-Salem, North Carolina 142-36-21-069
    Oregon
    Oregon Health & Science University Program
    Portland, Oregon 142-40-31-156
    Pennsylvania
    University of Pittsburgh Medical Center Medical Education Program
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 142-41-21-114
    Puerto Rico
    VA Caribbean Healthcare System Program
    San Juan, Puerto Rico 142-42-12-157
    Rhode Island
    Brown University Program
    Providence, Rhode Island 142-43-11-083
    Texas
    Baylor College of Medicine Program
    Houston, Texas 142-48-21-091
    Washington
    University of Washington Program
    Seattle, Washington 142-54-21-094
     
  10. KGUNNER1

    KGUNNER1 Senior Member

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    The multidisciplinary critical care programs, like Univ of Pitt (not the pulm/cc) include fellows from all disciplines (Anesth, IM, EM, Surg). Peds is separate.

    About 80% of the rotations are through surgical ICU's, for all fellows, regardless of the base training. The first year is almost identical between all the specialties. The only difference is the mandatory 3 months of OR time for the surgeons.

    kg
     
  11. Winged Scapula

    Winged Scapula Cougariffic!
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    Interesting...I didn't realize there were any true multidisciplinary programs. Does it lead to BE in surgical critical care or medical critical care? Thank you for the information. The OP was asking specifically about Surgical CC programs which is why that's what I responded with info about.

    To be BE in SCC you only need 9 months, which allows for the 3 months of operative time for the surgery residents. Since the patient mix in a SICU is a bit different than in a MICU are there are possible concerns about going back into a MICU world after doing a SICU based fellowship?
     
  12. JayneCobb

    JayneCobb big damn hero....
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    It's my understanding (which could be wrong) that the Certification would be under the primary field of training. currently, EM does not have this as a Board eligible fellowship and this is why many are doing the European fellowship tract. There have been some push to bring CC under it's own umbrella and have a single entity certify it, but I've not seen anything which suggests that might happen soon.
     
  13. Winged Scapula

    Winged Scapula Cougariffic!
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    That would make sense (BE in your primary field) as would a unified CC track.

    Thanks for the info.
     
  14. KGUNNER1

    KGUNNER1 Senior Member

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    In the multidisciplinary program, each fellow is basically an equal when it comes to expectations, rotations, etc...

    However, each separate base specialty is individually approved by the ACGME and each has their own program director to make sure all the RRC's rules and rec are followed for each one. The overall program is led by one "master" program director, who at Pitt, is also the IM/CC PD.

    http://www.ccm.upmc.edu/education/adult/overview.html

    So when a fellow is done, each one has fulfilled their own base specialty's requirements and the graduate is eligible for their respective cc board.

    From and IM/CC perspective, they have to do 2 years, and in those 2 years enough time is spent in all the units that you feel pretty confident wherever you may end up. Of course there may be some unique aspects of Pulmonology that you may not appreciate as quickly if you would have done a pulm/cc fellowship, but overall, those IM/CC fellows gain so much experience working with post-op surgical patients that it outweighs some of the "missing" pulm rotations.

    I don't think too many IM/CC grads from Pitt would be concerned with going back to a pure MICU. Many do. But I think most of us have come to appreciate the diversity and dynamics of the surgical ICUs.

    Personally I enjoy the surgical units more than the medical. I also enjoy working with my surgeon colleagues so much more than I would if I were living in a vacuum in the closed MICU. But that's just my $0.02.

    kg
     

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