Have you ever gotten pimped by a nurse?

[Hoo\/er]

To my shock and awe, it happened to me the other day.

Our team was visiting somebody on the oncology service with CML. Of course they have all these contact precautions. The nurse (I think she was just a regular RN) sees two of us with our short white coats and starts trying to pimp us on immunosuppression!

I almost laughed out loud, but decided against it and proceeded to give her a detailed explanation, including molecular mechanisms that she obviously had no clue about. After I went on about 5 minutes, covering stuff that she had obviously never heard before because they dont cover it in nursing school, she finally mumbled something about needing to check on a patient and left. I should have rang a school bell and said "class dismissed"

I've got no problem with nurses in general, and they can be a valuable resource. But its not her place to pimp me. Hell I get punked all day by attendings and residents the last thing I need is for some uppity nurse to think that its her responsibility to "train" me as if she's qualified to be my superior.

Nurses can run circles around me in terms of knowing the logistics of hospital operations, or the finer points of administering medications, but I will school them on pathophysiology any day of the week.

Learn2Play noob

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[caroladybelle]

Contact precautions BS? Whoa. You do know that hospital acquired infections are usually related to staff not following proper precautions, don't you? Maybe you were being grilled because you weren't following those precautions, and maybe this nurse was trying to protect her other patients and you. You're not bulletproof--you can get sick, too.

The only time I ever comment on precautions, is when the MD/resident/intern/med student/nurse is either using pathetically bad sterile technique or not using obvious precautions to the point that they may harm my patient or the others that they work with.

I sure as hell don't have time to waste "pimping" any one.

 

[oudoc08]

she asked because she wanted to pimp us and try to show off her (vastly limited and inferior) knowledge on the subject.

So , because she irritated you by trying to show off, you one-upped her by showing off back? Really mature.
I'm reminded of the guy w/ the Porsche/small penis syndrome thing.
Except in this case, it's "I'll show you my 5 minute immuno rant (Porsche), so that you won't know how insecure I am about practical clinic work (small penis)".

I bet you had a room full of other people, students, etc. rolling their eyes while you were pulling the "oh yea, ms' nurse, I'll show you with my medical student brain" crap. All you did was show was an A$$ some med students can be, and likely made life harder for every other med student that nurse as well as her friends and coworkers come in contact with. Way to go.
If I had someone like you on my team, I'd yank you out of the room by your ear while you were still talking and take you to the parking lot.

 

[oudoc08]

but if i was wearing a long coat i would not be getting that same lecture.

But you're not. You're a student.
It's called hierarchy. You gain privilege as you move up the ladder. It's part of the nicety and benefit of jumping the hoops and working your way through something.
Just like 16 year olds don't have nice jobs earning 100k a year, you as well climb a learning ladder, both in didactic and clinical education.
As you advance in life, you'll find more and more of your education comes from less formal sources. You're best teachers may be scrub techs, IV nurses, paramedics, attending surgeons, janitors, or your patients.

The piss-poor attitudes I've seen on this page likely belong to those insecure kids who you see cowered around the attending on rounds, like a 2 year old hiding under mommy's dress, too afraid to come out and interact with the world around them. Put down your clipboards, quit looking over your noses at people who don't have an MD on their coat, and quit being a tool.

 

[THP]

I've never been pimped by a nurse but they have taught me things when I approach them. That being said, if a nurse did pimp me infront of others and I didn't know the answer i would be pissed. You may say this makes me insecure but we are all human and have natural reactions to things like this. Clearly I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

 

[ULTRON]

As 3/4th year medical students we are supposed to get punked all day by everyone in the staff ranging from serior docs to certified nursing assistants and even patients. Medical school is supposed to be hell where you get punched, bitten and spat on every day. I'm getting used to it; you better get used to it too. It all pays off in the end.



ULTRON

 

[MacGyver]

So , because she irritated you by trying to show off, you one-upped her by showing off back? Really mature.
I'm reminded of the guy w/ the Porsche/small penis syndrome thing.
Except in this case, it's "I'll show you my 5 minute immuno rant (Porsche), so that you won't know how insecure I am about practical clinic work (small penis)".

I bet you had a room full of other people, students, etc. rolling their eyes while you were pulling the "oh yea, ms' nurse, I'll show you with my medical student brain" crap. All you did was show was an A$$ some med students can be, and likely made life harder for every other med student that nurse as well as her friends and coworkers come in contact with. Way to go.
If I had someone like you on my team, I'd yank you out of the room by your ear while you were still talking and take you to the parking lot.

You didnt read my post. If she had pimped me on how to deliver IV meds or how to chart dialysis readings, I would have been all ears. But pathophysiology is MY domain, and I took her feeble attempt at pimping (she was pimping, not just asking a question) as a LEARNING opportunity for the nurse!

It works both ways. She can "school" me on hospital logistics and drug delivery, but I can damn sure "school" her on pathophys and pharmacology and the other elements of med school that nurses dont use on their job and have no training in.

I'm sick of this attitude of "we have a lot to learn from nurses and they know everything already so we have nothing to teach them." Thats a crock of BS.

 

[MacGyver]

As 3/4th year medical students we are supposed to get punked all day by everyone in the staff ranging from serior docs to certified nursing assistants and even patients. Medical school is supposed to be hell where you get punched, bitten and spat on every day. I'm getting used to it; you better get used to it too. It all pays off in the end.



ULTRON

I call BS on that. Does the GM factory floor worker have some valuable teaching to give the design engineer upstairs? Absolutely. Does the GM factor worker have any business trying to school the engineer on nonlinear equations and aerodynamic sheer/stress analysis? Absolutely not.

KNOW YOUR ROLE.

 

[SLUser11]

I call BS on that. Does the GM factory floor worker have some valuable teaching to give the design engineer upstairs? Absolutely. Does the GM factor worker have any business trying to school the engineer on nonlinear equations and aerodynamic sheer/stress analysis? Absolutely not.

KNOW YOUR ROLE.

Although I get frustrated with nurses alot, you frustrate me more.

I don't know anything about you personally, and you may be great, but your attitude sucks, and someone very soon is going to take you down a peg or two if you act like this in the hospital.

BE CAREFUL....even when you feel certain behavior is warranted, which it might be, a bad reputation can follow you around for a long time, and make your life harder/less successful. Try not to be the arrogant med student stereotype that feeds the angry nurse fire.

Kill them with kindness. If nothing else, it's good practice for when you're a resident. You can catch more bees with honey than you can with being an @ssh#le.

 

[Dr JPH]

As 3/4th year medical students we are supposed to get punked all day by everyone in the staff ranging from serior docs to certified nursing assistants and even patients. Medical school is supposed to be hell where you get punched, bitten and spat on every day. I'm getting used to it; you better get used to it too. It all pays off in the end.

I think youve been looking at your world the wrong way.

Wipe the spat off your glasses and take a clearer look at everything.

 

[oudoc08]

I'm sick of this attitude of "we have a lot to learn from nurses and they know everything already so we have nothing to teach them." Thats a crock of BS.

Who said anything about nurses knowing everything? The point is, you weren't honestly trying to TEACH her anything, you were trying to make a point by showing her up with book knowledge. Big flippin' deal. So you can spout off immuno didactics, who cares. You're in the real world now, and unless you plan to go lab rat at a bench somewhere, that crap is completely worthless. Of course some nurses are b!tches and try to make med students look dumb, but you'd be better to stay silent and have people think you're an idiot than to open your mouth and remove any doubt. It's just flat childish, and reinforces the snotty, know-it-all stereotype that nurses and other ancillary staff have of 3rd year med students.
Remember, you're a student, they're not. You're there to learn, they're not.

As you said earlier, "Remember your role."

 

[velo]

You're best teachers may be scrub techs, IV nurses, paramedics, attending surgeons, janitors, or your patients.

Ha, I don't know about that. I mean, to a certain extent that's true but I try to get much more teaching from my attending/resident/intern than I do from nurses (and I'm not sure what I'm supposed to have learned from the janitor).

Sure, its good to be proficient in nursing skills like starting IVs, drawing blood, etc etc but that's far from my primary focus on an IM rotation. I'm on cardiology firm right now and I went around with an IV nurse today to finish filling out my 'procedure card' (I'm great at ABGs but have never gotten around to doing my IVs and venipuntures)...So she was nice and helpful but I got a little frustrated with myself trying to place those damn IVs (for whatever reason I think art sticks are easier than those pesky things).

Anyway I could use more practice with them, but i was still perfectly fine with my resident pulling me away to go "play intern"--round on the patients, tell him what our management should be, and see if we agree. He told me I should skip 4th yr and just be an intern (ha) and I realized that I'm much better at managing heart disease than I am at placing IVs. And honestly, I think that's appropriate. I'm not on this rotation to learn how to be a nurse, I'm here to learn to be a doctor. That means I focus on learning how to talk to patients, make diagnoses, decide on management, write orders, interpret test results, and non-nursing procedures (doing or watching ABGs, LPs, central lines, thoraco-pericentesis, etc). That's honestly the most important thing--and if I leave this rotation not as good as nurses at starting IVs, I'm ok with that. I'm sure I'll find some more oppertunities to practice, and in the meantime I'm fully capable of writing--1) please start IV, thanks-- in the orders

 

[MacGyver]

Who said anything about nurses knowing everything? The point is, you weren't honestly trying to TEACH her anything, you were trying to make a point by showing her up with book knowledge. Big flippin' deal. So you can spout off immuno didactics, who cares. You're in the real world now, and unless you plan to go lab rat at a bench somewhere, that crap is completely worthless. Of course some nurses are b!tches and try to make med students look dumb, but you'd be better to stay silent and have people think you're an idiot than to open your mouth and remove any doubt. It's just flat childish, and reinforces the snotty, know-it-all stereotype that nurses and other ancillary staff have of 3rd year med students.
Remember, you're a student, they're not. You're there to learn, they're not.

As you said earlier, "Remember your role."

Spare me your sanctimonious tone, you have no idea how relevant the information was. In fact, the didactic info I gave was DIRECTLY relevant because it pertained to a mechanism of action and side effects of popular chemotherapeutics.

Maybe you prefer to "stay silent" and hide behind everybody like a scared little mouse on the wards. I'm sure you'll get a fine clinical education doing just that.

 

[Elysium]

You didnt read my post. If she had pimped me on how to deliver IV meds or how to chart dialysis readings, I would have been all ears. But pathophysiology is MY domain, and I took her feeble attempt at pimping (she was pimping, not just asking a question) as a LEARNING opportunity for the nurse!

It works both ways. She can "school" me on hospital logistics and drug delivery, but I can damn sure "school" her on pathophys and pharmacology and the other elements of med school that nurses dont use on their job and have no training in.

I'm sick of this attitude of "we have a lot to learn from nurses and they know everything already so we have nothing to teach them." Thats a crock of BS.

Are you honestly fvcking kidding me? You're a third year, right? You haven't even graduated from medical school and I can utterly assure you that you really don't know dick. Anyone with any humilty and intelligence will tell you that there is so much they don't know (attendings!) and that they're constantly learning and evolving. They don't need to get into pissing matches with nurses and techs because they don't have small dick syndrome. What are you so insecure about? I mean, if you were as smart as you say you are, you wouldn't need to posture like this. The truly gifted people I've met tend to be the most humble because they don't have anything to prove. They don't need to spout out an asinine second rate bullsh1t lecture (and from a ****** third year...SO impressive!) about immunosuppresion. Do you know what a fvcking tool you must have looked like? I would have kicked you in the nuts if you were my classmate. Get over yourself, dude. You're not a doctor. You're a student. You don't know dick. You're going to get schooled (hopefully) over and over again. Lose your ego, shut your trap, and learn to get along with the other people in the goddamned hospital.

Me: not a nurse, don't care about nurses, don't know any nurses. Don't have any nursing agenda. Not in nursing school. Just think you're an asshat.

 

[MacGyver]

Are you honestly fvcking kidding me? You're a third year, right? You haven't even graduated from medical school and I can utterly assure you that you really don't know dick. Anyone with any humilty and intelligence will tell you that there is so much they don't know (attendings!) and that they're constantly learning and evolving. They don't need to get into pissing matches with nurses and techs because they don't have small dick syndrome. What are you so insecure about? I mean, if you were as smart as you say you are, you wouldn't need to posture like this. The truly gifted people I've met tend to be the most humble because they don't have anything to prove. They don't need to spout out an asinine second rate bullsh1t lecture (and from a ****** third year...SO impressive!) about immunosuppresion. Do you know what a fvcking tool you must have looked like? I would have kicked you in the nuts if you were my classmate. Get over yourself, dude. You're not a doctor. You're a student. You don't know dick. You're going to get schooled (hopefully) over and over again. Lose your ego, shut your trap, and learn to get along with the other people in the goddamned hospital.

Me: not a nurse, don't care about nurses, don't know any nurses. Don't have any nursing agenda. Not in nursing school. Just think you're an asshat.

Is that the most non-relevant personal attack you have for me? Come on man, you can do better!

 

[Arsenic]

relax guys, you can both make your points without lashing out at the other.

 

[Dr JPH]

relax guys, you can both make your points without lashing out at the other.

Agreed. Youve got both Mods attention on this one.

 

[dynx]

You can learn from nurses, nurses can learn from you.
Anybody in any position can have small penis syndrome (I actually think its a rare thing to find an attending without it).
If a nurse pimps you with a bad attitude you can:
a. Prove to everyone you are insecure enough to respond with a rant.
b. Laugh it off and show that you truely think its no big deal.
You're all *****s.

 

[SLUser11]

You're all *****s.

Agreed, me included.

In his defense, however, everyone has had a fantasy about telling off a nurse that was undeservedly rude to them....it's the same as a waiter that dreams of confronting a rude table that tipped them poorly even though the service was good.......still, you just don't do it.

 

[Bubb Rubb]

in my first two rotations of 3rd year i've found that i've been pimped more by doctors not involved directly in my rotation and by nurses than by my own attendings. i don't mind it at all, however.

 

[oudoc08]

(and I'm not sure what I'm supposed to have learned from the janitor).

Maybe a bit of humility.

 

[velo]

Maybe a bit of humility.

Don't show weakness in front of the janitor...he'll crush you

 

[nabeya]

In his defense, however, everyone has had a fantasy about telling off a nurse that was undeservedly rude to them

I've had that same dream...odd...

 

[cytoskelement]

The only pimping I've experienced with the nursing staff is when I notice a hot one in the ICU. I start to swagger and drop the charm. True pimpin' - fo' real! [Now, I'll throw my Rollie in the sky and wave it side to side.]

 

[Hoya11]

Nurses dont get to play the doctor games. THey never went through the pimping but they can dish it out? No way. They are just trying to jump on the band wagon and make themselves "equal" to the rest of docs on the team in their own mind by also pimping you. "we all know so much more than the lowely student! right guys, im just like you compared to them, right!?"

 

[med_heidelberg]

Oh yea definitely, in germany, all medical students have to complete a 3 month Pflegepraktikum, meaning we work directly with the nurses and learn how to take care of patients, basically, the idea is to learn from the bottom up and become familiar with how a hospital runs. In principle the idea is ok, but 3 months was too long. I did get to learn a lot during this time, especially when i was working in the eye surgery clinic. The problem is, the nurses totally use the med students to do the tasks they dont feel like doing, so there can be some hostility. So I just tried to avoid the nurses and stay with the doctors, watching surgeries, exams, helping with exams, etc. But i couldnt do this the entire time, the nurses were the ones in charge of this required rotation, so i had to do some rather unpleasant tasks at times .. oh well, what doesnt kill you makes you stronger!

So basically i was pimped by german nurses for three months, Im sooo glad thats over! i dont think it can ever be so bad as that.

 

[Mr. McDuck]

I overheard a student crna (srna) pimping an anesthesiologist yesterday. I almost **** a brick.

Not to get into this again, but as far as nurses trying to be equals, I also heard a PhD nurse introduce herself to a patient as Dr. XXXXX. Ridiculous.

 

[toofache32]

I overheard a student crna (srna) pimping an anesthesiologist yesterday. I almost **** a brick.

Do you mean anesthesia resident or a real anesthesiologist?

 

[Adcadet]

On my cardiology service we have a nurse who helps us schedule tests. She's very nice and we all get along great. One patient had an infection and we were brainstorming antibiotic ideas. I suggested clindamycin, and the nurse started a lecture on c. diff and how it had killed some of her patients when she worked in the SICU. I tried to justify my answer and get out the point that c. diff is associated with many antibiotics but she just kept going on and on so I let it rest. Afterwards a resident said that he found it amusing. I didn't take offense, but it was interesting.

 

[Mr. McDuck]

Do you mean anesthesia resident or a real anesthesiologist?

Um, either way it would be pretty inappropriate, but we don't have anesthesia residents here. It was a "real anesthesiologist".

 

[drbon]

Not to get into this again, but as far as nurses trying to be equals, I also heard a PhD nurse introduce herself to a patient as Dr. XXXXX. Ridiculous.

Well technically she is Dr. XXXX, but she shouldn't use her title while at work as a nurse cuz that just confuses the patient and could probably get her in trouble down the road....

 

[Paws]

But you're not. You're a student.
It's called hierarchy. You gain privilege as you move up the ladder. It's part of the nicety and benefit of jumping the hoops and working your way through something.
Just like 16 year olds don't have nice jobs earning 100k a year, you as well climb a learning ladder, both in didactic and clinical education.
As you advance in life, you'll find more and more of your education comes from less formal sources. You're best teachers may be scrub techs, IV nurses, paramedics, attending surgeons, janitors, or your patients.

The piss-poor attitudes I've seen on this page likely belong to those insecure kids who you see cowered around the attending on rounds, like a 2 year old hiding under mommy's dress, too afraid to come out and interact with the world around them. Put down your clipboards, quit looking over your noses at people who don't have an MD on their coat, and quit being a tool.

Ouch.

I can see how the OP was bummed by being hassled by a nurse. I don't like meaningless hassling by anyone and so far third year is becoming a weird mixture of really nice, supportive people, some who don't know I exist (my own team sometimes), and then others who seem thrilled to have someone new to torment. I often feel exhausted by the end of the day from trying to figure out all these vague, underlying social issues. Plus, they seem to change moment by moment so that adds to the overall anxiety and confusion.

I think this system of medical education is for the birds, but somehow I have to get through it. But I dread going in sometimes because I wonder: is someone going to pimp/scold/accuse/go off on me? Who do I have to protect myself from today? It's a big drag. Altho, I think becoming an MD in Germany might be even worse ... !

 

[Mr. McDuck]

Well technically she is Dr. XXXX, but she shouldn't use her title while at work as a nurse cuz that just confuses the patient and could probably get her in trouble down the road....

I don't give a flying rat's ass if she's "technically" a doctor. In the hospital, you do not call yourself Dr. XXXX if you aren't a physician. I have a doctorate degree and I would never introduce myself like that to a patient. Christ, I'd feel like a huge tool if I did.

One of the things that annoys me is the mothering I get from some of the nurses. I'm a lot younger than most of them, and I know they mean well, but it gets annoying sometimes. "Okay, now when you do this, you blah. Good job!" Thanks, mom. I've done this once before.

EDIT: BTW, I am talking about simple stuff that anyone could do.

 

[Dr JPH]

I overheard a student crna (srna) pimping an anesthesiologist yesterday. I almost **** a brick.

Perhaps you misunderstood the situation. Could it have been that the student was simply asking a question of the anesthesiologist? There is nothing that a student CNA could possibly ask of an attending that would be considered pimping...except for maybe "do you know what color my panties are?"

And thats not technically pimping...or is it??

 

[toofache32]

...There is nothing that a student CNA could possibly ask of an attending that would be considered pimping...except for maybe "do you know what color my panties are?"

I wonder what the correct answer to that pimp question is?

 

[deleted109597]

I don't give a flying rat's ass if she's "technically" a doctor. In the hospital, you do not call yourself Dr. XXXX if you aren't a physician. I have a doctorate degree and I would never introduce myself like that to a patient. Christ, I'd feel like a huge tool if I did.

No, then you would introduce yourself as Dr. Dr. Billy Shears.

One of the things that annoys me is the mothering I get from some of the nurses. I'm a lot younger than most of them, and I know they mean well, but it gets annoying sometimes. "Okay, now when you do this, you blah. Good job!" Thanks, mom. I've done this once before.

I like it when nurses tell me basic stuff, like how to clamp an IV, or how to put EKG electrodes on. I imagine it comes from years of asshat medical students who never knew how and didn't ask, but it is really annoying to have to give my verbal CV to every single person so they don't assume I'm a *****. Especially as a 4th year.

 

[Mr. McDuck]

Perhaps you misunderstood the situation. Could it have been that the student was simply asking a question of the anesthesiologist? There is nothing that a student CNA could possibly ask of an attending that would be considered pimping...except for maybe "do you know what color my panties are?"

And thats not technically pimping...or is it??

Nice. But it wasn't a CNA student. I'm pretty sure I wrote CRNA student (SRNA) as in nurse anesthetist student. So, it would make sense that she knew a little bit about anesthesia and felt comfortable enough to pimp an attending for some god awful reason. And believe me, I've been pimped enough times to know what it sounds like, lol.

But anyway, the kind of pimping you're referring to is okay in my book.

I like it when nurses tell me basic stuff, like how to clamp an IV, or how to put EKG electrodes on. I imagine it comes from years of asshat medical students who never knew how and didn't ask, but it is really annoying to have to give my verbal CV to every single person so they don't assume I'm a *****. Especially as a 4th year.

Yeah, but it's not even that technical. It is stuff like, make sure you have your hat on when you go into the OR, or hey you have to wear shoe covers when you go onto the floor if you want to wear those shoes in the OR.

 

[taylor6902]

If the nurse tries to pimp you again, just make her bow down to your M-3/M-4-greatness and smack her upside the head with your trusty pimp cane.

On the other hand, you could just take it and ask for another. It's best not to let him/her bother you.


Here's something funny that my brother told me last thanksgiving:
freshman year of undergrad. the only pre-meds on his dorm floor were he and another guy AKA the tool. As the semester progressed this guy would make casual remarks about how my brother didn't get drunk on every occasion like the toolbag did. Come junior year, my brother was filling out his apps for medical school, and the tool had switched his major to nursing. Fast forward a few more years and my brother is an M-4. He's at an inner-city teaching hospital, and guess who else is there: the tool-now-practicing-nurse. My brother had not seen him in a while so he does a stop-and-chat (I know, Larry David didn't agree either). Well the very next day this nurse has the balls to try to pimp my brother in front of a resident!!! My brother, being genial, answered the douche's question! The resident laughed his ass off. From then on out it became an inside joke for the resident to ask my brother how many nurses had pimped him that day.

 

[lattimer13]

got pimped by a scrub tech about really esoteric microbiology stuff at the very end of my third year...i'd say i got about 60-70% of his BS questions right...i thought it was fun at first because it was bringing up some of that cool stuff we learned and i couldn't believe i could recall some of it...however, i soon came to realize i was just adding fuel to the fire and the f-ing tech would not shut up and loved it whenever i didn't know the answer...i finally told him to STFU...and that i'd get back to him when hell freezes over and i do an infectious disease rotation. at least my surg attending was impressed, he also told me the tech was a medic or some $hit in 'nam and had first hand experience with all of that crap and he asked every one of his med students the same goddamn questions and really got off on it.

fun times.

 

[caroladybelle]

The only pimping I've experienced with the nursing staff is when I notice a hot one in the ICU. I start to swagger and drop the charm. True pimpin' - fo' real! [Now, I'll throw my Rollie in the sky and wave it side to side.]

Whereupon, s/he goes to the breakroom and laughes her/his butt off at your utter stupidity.

Give it a rest, dude.

 

[Baylee]

Guys she didnt ask me because she honestly was curious and didnt know, she asked because she wanted to pimp us and try to show off her (vastly limited and inferior) knowledge on the subject.

I can tell the difference between somebody asking an honest question and somebody trying to pimp

Actually, my sister is a nurse (practitioner) and she also has a MS in physiology. She went straight into one of those new NP programs, so she never worked as a nurse, but she's still an RN. It's possible that the nurse knew a lot about the topic. I just know that it would suck if my sister quizzed you about physiology and she's a RN!

 

[Baylee]

Well technically she is Dr. XXXX, but she shouldn't use her title while at work as a nurse cuz that just confuses the patient and could probably get her in trouble down the road....

The American Nurses Association (ANA) is going to start requiring all nurse practitioners to obtain a doctorate degree in the future. This is different than getting a Ph.D in Nursing, it's a Doctor of Science in Nursing and they are planning on putting "ND" (Nursing Doctorate) after their name. I believe they will spend something like 3 years in clinical rotations and the program length is 10 years.

My sister is a NP and I believe she said that CRNA's will have to go to school longer too, but they will also be called "Dr."

 

[Mr. McDuck]

That's ridiculous, but unfortunately, I believe it. BTW, isn't ND also the degree for naturopathic doctors?

 

[logos]

I suspect that no one will tolerate the use of the "Dr." title for non-physicians...but if they do...oh well...its just a title...they still cant use "physician".

I think the letters are DNP, Doctor of Nursing Practice. ND is naturopathy, a group of "doctors" that only has any standing in a few states, mostly out west.

 

[caffeinefree08]

Back to the OP, I think one of the issues here was about respect. Specifically, the nurse's behavior in front of the team. I understand that nurses will have conversations with students to establish their credentials and knowledge, but never in front of the team. She would be putting in her two cents in front of the people who are my designated educators. It's almost an insult to their teaching.

I won't debate whether the response was appropriate or not, but the nurse did fire the first shot (in front of the physician team, no less) so a response of some type would be expected.

The degree of response varies. Sometimes your intern/residents/attendings will put you in a situation where you have to interact with an absolutely disrespectful or unprofessional doctor or nurse, on purpose. Then you get evaluated on your judgment and response. What your physicians expect probably varies with specialty and team personality. If you ignore it, your team will either tell you that you acted professionally or that you are too timid. If you call the person on it, you are arrogant or 'good job' for sticking to your guns.

I think the decision of which course you take depends on how long you have been in a rotation. If it is day 1, always always be silent. Later you will find out this person's behavior is a joke to the rest of the staff and just ignore it. If you are deeper in the rotation and know they are totally out of bounds, say/do something that firmly shows you are both secure in your actions and that you don't need the addition of their opinion.

 

[Mr. McDuck]

I suspect that no one will tolerate the use of the "Dr." title for non-physicians...but if they do...oh well...its just a title...they still cant use "physician".

Patients won't know the difference until one of them says, "well, doctor smith told me it was okay?"

"Who the heck is doctor smith?" Patient points.

"That's a nurse, not a physician." Patient is pissed that nurse represented herself as MD by calling herself doctor in a hospital and sues (okay, maybe not sues...lol).

I'm sure that happens, but it's not like patients are demanding it stop or anything.

I think the letters are DNP, Doctor of Nursing Practice. ND is naturopathy, a group of "doctors" that only has any standing in a few states, mostly out west.

My friend's wife is an ND. Apparently she "knows her stuff".

 

[Baylee]

Patients won't know the difference until one of them says, "well, doctor smith told me it was okay?"

"Who the heck is doctor smith?" Patient points.

"That's a nurse, not a physician." Patient is pissed that nurse represented herself as MD by calling herself doctor in a hospital and sues (okay, maybe not sues...lol).

I'm sure that happens, but it's not like patients are demanding it stop or anything.



My friend's wife is an ND. Apparently she "knows her stuff".

Doctor Nurse, now that's an oxymoron!

 

[werd]

let's not be too harsh.. nurses are trained to take care of patients in a different way than we are. some of the more experienced nurses may be pseudo-competent in dx and tx but it is frustrating when nurses try to manage. the other day in a pt room with a 2mo-old... nurse says, "you should culture that, i think she has a sinus infection." response: nasal secretions always have lots of bacteria in them, so culture isn't useful. "but i think she's got one." response: babies this age don't even have sinuses. what's frustrating is that the conversation took place in front of mom who gets worried for no reason and then i have to tell the nurse she's off base directly and in front of patients. still, their input and observations are often useful and news to us, since they spend more direct time with patients than we do.

 

[21JumpStreet]

let's not be too harsh.. nurses are trained to take care of patients in a different way than we are. some of the more experienced nurses may be pseudo-competent in dx and tx but it is frustrating when nurses try to manage. the other day in a pt room with a 2mo-old... nurse says, "you should culture that, i think she has a sinus infection." response: nasal secretions always have lots of bacteria in them, so culture isn't useful. "but i think she's got one." response: babies this age don't even have sinuses. what's frustrating is that the conversation took place in front of mom who gets worried for no reason and then i have to tell the nurse she's off base directly and in front of patients. still, their input and observations are often useful and news to us, since they spend more direct time with patients than we do.

It is important to correct her. But, it would be better to correct her when she is alone. I am sure that you would not want to be corrected in front of patients, etc. It is just common and professional courtesy.

 

[Baylee]

let's not be too harsh.. nurses are trained to take care of patients in a different way than we are. some of the more experienced nurses may be pseudo-competent in dx and tx but it is frustrating when nurses try to manage. the other day in a pt room with a 2mo-old... nurse says, "you should culture that, i think she has a sinus infection." response: nasal secretions always have lots of bacteria in them, so culture isn't useful. "but i think she's got one." response: babies this age don't even have sinuses. what's frustrating is that the conversation took place in front of mom who gets worried for no reason and then i have to tell the nurse she's off base directly and in front of patients. still, their input and observations are often useful and news to us, since they spend more direct time with patients than we do.

I would have been all over that nurse. Just the other day I ordered Toradol 30 mg IM for a patient who was having a lot of pain and the nurse said (in front of patient) "Are you sure you want to give her such a low dose?" I was PISSED! The patient started yelling and demanding that I give her a higher dose of the medication. I spent at least 15 minutes with that patient explaining to her why I couldn't give her a higher dose. I pulled the nurse aside and told her to NEVER do something like that again in front of a patient.