Have you ever seen someone die? (kind of Sad, so read tomo)

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pakbabydoll

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Sorry to ruin Christmas but I have to get this out. I saw a 3 month old die yesterday. I don't really know what happened, just that they needed a code cart so I bought them one in ER ( Every department has one, but whenever they call a code we bring them another cart.) Anyway the nurses and physicians were doing their thing and the nurse asked me if I could hand her some more lidocane and Atropine sulfate so I was doing that and then it just happened. It happened so fast, one second they are doing their thing and next the physician was calling it. Anyway I was the first to leave with the old cart and his parents were outside waiting and asked me what happened, so I was like doctor will be right with you. I am kind of upset...

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Not anything as traumatic as that.

My first day volunteering at the hospice, I met a really sweet 22-year-old girl who died about a week ago. I wasn't around when she did, and I had only seen her twice, but still, it sucks. *sigh*
 
You make it seem as if the time was called prematurely. I'm assuming it took longer than your post makes it seem?

I'm with you though. Its a wierd feeling. My last shift in the ER there was a body in the trauma bay in the bag waiting to be picked up. Kind of unnerving but not bad. However, when I had to help get a rather large woman on to the CT bed and she began to code was an entirely different story. You'll get over it.
 
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Sadly, you do tend to get over it. Kids tend to take longer. pakbabydoll, being this upset shows you're a kind person. Don't lose that.
 
It's tough to talk about when friends and such don't understand at this point - I think it's worse when you're a pre-med b/c in med school everyone is dealing with these issues too. But you should definitely find someone to talk with about this.

If anything, take solace in the fact that you will spend your life trying to avoid others experiencing this.
 
You make it seem as if the time was called prematurely. I'm assuming it took longer than your post makes it seem?

Must have taken 5-7 mins starting when I got down there. Our hospital has this rule where we have to keep putting new supplies in during the code and be there with a new code cart in case something goes wrong with the first one even though they are checked when we send them out. I have seen dead people before, I have been in the morgue before too, but I never saw them in my dreams. I had nightmares last night.
 
I've seen people actively dying, walked by a code that they weren't able to get back in the ER (another ambulance crew brought the pt in) and transported plenty of patients who were, as far as I'm concerned, already dead.

You get numb to it pretty quick. The caveat to that is that it's always going to suck (or it should if you have any sort of heart) to lose a pediatric patient. When an old person dies from a chronic condition, or an obese person dies from something that was caused by their obesity, you expect it and they've lived for awhile so it's not that bad in the grand scheme of things. Now when a kid who hasn't even had a chance to experience the world yet dies....well, it's an entirely different story.
 
OP, every profession has is ups and downs. You just went through what is probably one of the lows in the healthcare professions. Some of us will see it more than others, and always remember that there is worse, and you will get over it sooner rather than later. Imagine working in the maternity ward, and ending up with an emergency C-section and a dead baby...That was my summer three years ago. I was there purely by coincident, cause I was the closest one handy to fetch a cylinder of oxygen. But then, that summer I also saw many many newborns and quite a few in NICU as well, who got better and moved on with live.
 
Must have taken 5-7 mins starting when I got down there. Our hospital has this rule where we have to keep putting new supplies in during the code and be there with a new code cart in case something goes wrong with the first one even though they are checked when we send them out. I have seen dead people before, I have been in the morgue before too, but I never saw them in my dreams. I had nightmares last night.
Hmm 5 - 7 minutes seems like a very, very short time based on the age of the child (lifespan left, ability to heal, etc.). Any med students or residents care to shed light on if this is the normal amount of time? I'm curious now.
 
Hmm 5 - 7 minutes seems like a very, very short time based on the age of the child (lifespan left, ability to heal, etc.). Any med students or residents care to shed light on if this is the normal amount of time? I'm curious now.

You also have to add the time it takes from when they call the code to one of us to go to ER with a code cart. Pharmacy is on the 3rd floor and ER first + the time to get to the elevator and then down. So maybe add 3-4 more mins.
 
I've helped out in a few codes doing manual CPR and also seen a few people die in hospice. It is very sad at first, but you do tend to get over it. The more you see it, the less emotional you get, but that doesn't mean you value that person's life any less. It will get easier with time.
 
Sadly, you do tend to get over it. Kids tend to take longer. pakbabydoll, being this upset shows you're a kind person. Don't lose that.
Agreed. I've never actually seen someone die, but I've been on the floor when patients have expired. A few of them had been to the floor several times or were very obviously in pain, so you know they're at peace now. They'd all lived long, hopefully full lives, so I suppose that makes it easier to move on from. I'm sure I'd have a much harder time with a child. I can't imagine what that baby's parents are going through right now. :(
 
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As a volunteer at the Central Texas regional trauma center, I have seen many deaths, and I am thankful for it.

Not that I enjoy seeing people die, but entering medicine, its something we're all going to have to get used to. And if we get flustered by death, then we may not be able to perform our jobs as well as we should. Particularly if we go into a fast-paced field like surgery or ER, where we have to think on or toes and make quick decisions.

The key is understanding death. It happens to the best of us, and it is one of the most important parts of life. I am fortunate to get a head start on seeing this. I will be a better medical student for it when rotations begin.

What I think will be the hard part: when you're actually involved. That is, you're a surgeon or an ER doc, or something along those lines, and someone dies under your care, and you wonder if maybe you had acted faster or done something differently, maybe the outcome might have been different.

And some are easier than others. When you get some gang-banger who gets shot and killed, its sad to think that this kid somehow got involved in that kind of thing, but at the same time, as Hyman Roth says, that was the life he chose. When you get some innocent high school kid who was shot and killed as part of a gang-initiation ritual, and you see people around town for the next few months with t-shirts made up "RIP Woody" and a picture of him on the front, you can't help but feel bad.
 
Yeah I've seen someone die. Both in my personal life and when I was shadowing in the hospital. It's definitely an experience that will define you the first time that you see it. I think that the way to cope with it is to realize that you have the power to choose how you react to these situations, and that you can take tragedies like these and use them to give your own life new meaning. I deal by remembering that all events in life, good, bad and ugly are a part of what makes life so scrumptuous. Afterall, if there weren't any bad times, the good times wouldn't have any meaning. So in that sense, all experience is a blessing...although tragedies are still very sad.
 
I think she meant 5-7 minutes that she was down there before it was called. It's not like they waited for the replacement crash cart before doing anything. It was the ER. He could have come in already down for awhile.

Pak, I'm REALLY sorry that you experienced this on Christmas Eve, especially for you first time and with an infant. Even though you will get past it, it is something that's going to stay in your memory.

I haven't been through that. The most I've seen are NICU kids who had seemed healthy until they showed the signs of metabolic disorders. That was hard, too, watching little ones that started out looking good going downhill, and knowing that they probably only had a few days left. The one who stays in my mind the most, though, is the one who fooled everyone and DID make it. I hope that for you, eventually, the memories of unexpected successes crowd out the inevitable losses.
 
I worked in the ED for a year on the weekends so I saw a bunch from kids to old people die. This past Dec 1, I stayed in the room while my grandfather coded and then when we opted to end resuscitation attempts.

Seeing a 17 year old die is very surreal, but its way different when its one of your own in there.
 
I have worked as a tech in an ER/trauma center for 4+ years. I have seen everything from a stillbirth to a 102 year old die. I've seen people come in really already dead, and people come in talking and awake who die in a matter of minutes. You should never get used to it, but you just learn how to cope and learn that you have done all that you can.

When it comes to short codes, especially with newborns/infants, they decompensate really really quickly so the family probably didn't notice anything was wrong until the baby was already gone. We always give it our best and go a little farther with babies and kids, but if it was very obvious that the baby was dead (rigor, modeling, etc.) there is only so much you can do and it gets called quickly.
 
Thank you guys so much...I feel kind of better.
 
I just wish to make one point. We should not conflate cause of death with responsibility of death. The cause of someone's death is biological. Responsibility comes about if a person makes an ethically charged decision (or refrains from it). For example, if I take a patient off of life support, I do not kill him. His underlying disease kills him. But I may be responsible, depending on the moral status of that action.

This is very important for physicians and future physicians to understand. Not everything that happens is caused by human agency. Since human agency is necessary for moral responsibility, not everything that happens will hold someone morally responsible. For example, if you can't help but do something; that is, you have no free will with regards to something, then you can't be responsible for it. If, no matter what I do, a patient will die, then I am not morally responsible for the patient's dying. If I could have given the patient medication to save his life, then I do not cause his death, but I am morally responsible for it.
 
The important thing to take out of this is NEVER, EVER get desensitized to death. You don't want to collapse when you see it but you don't want to treat deaths as statistics.
 
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I have seen death twice (once on a research animal, once in a family member) and the two were so similar it took me a while to get over it.


Im sorry if my question seems incredibly insensitive to you. I just want to understand how seeing death in a research animal and a human can be compared in the same sentence. Ive killed lots of rats and mice, and although its sad to see them die, I cant understand how the death of an animal can be compared to the death of an actual person. Gosh. If I counted all the rats, mice, rabbits, dogs, hamsters, etc, Ive seen die, I guess i can say ive witnessed "death" hundreds of times. Again, Im not trying to be insensitive, but if you could please explain...I highly doubt im the only one wondering this...

I saw a woman die in a nursing home/hospice once, but she was DNR and it was peaceful and what she wanted. I saw a dead guy get rolled into an ER, but they determined he was already dead so dont know if that counts.

Pakbabydoll, I agree with what alot of ppl on this page are saying. Its tough, you hope to never get desensitized to it, but in a way, you just get used to it and start to see it as a part of life. Seeing somoene die in a nursing home helped me understand that death doesnt have to be "traumatic." She was nearly 100 years old, her kids were there, as were some of her grandkids too. I didnt really know her well, I had visited her a few times and I was around that day...I think she knew she was on her way out, and had come to grips with it, and the staff did all they could to make her as comfortable as possible...I guess I felt "ok" with seeing all of it, because it didnt seem traumatic at all. It seemed like everything happened so peacefully...I dont know.

But im really sorry for what you went thru...unfortunately im sure it wont be the last death youll see as a future dr...
 
I've seen two people die in the ER. I can't really say its a pleasant experience. I was a little rattled the first time, the second time the attending checked with me to see if I was ok, which was nice. It just so happened that they happened in the same week. Its really sad but you'll get used to it over time. This is also coming from a person who catches spiders and lets them go outside...and things of that sort.

On a happier note thats only 2 out of 1000+ if that makes you feel any better.
 
I used to work as an SLP in nursing homes - I'd get excited if my caseload was not missing anyone the next day.

I used to sit beside while people died about 1x a month or so. Some go peacefully, some are really sick and are miserable the whole way there.

Saw a boy come into an ER who blew his brains out. Sad.
 
As sad as this may sound, but this thread is starting to sound like a competition of who has seen the most death. I think that is somewhat gruesome. I believe that this thread was meant as a means of support to those who are somewhat disturbed by death. In my experience, it is a lot more psychologically traumatizing to watch an infant die than an adult (which is why I could never be a pediatrician). This is because there is something terribly wrong with watching someone who hasn't even been given the chance to live a life, die. There is just something about the innocence of youth. Yes, I can handle watching infants pass away, but I don't think it is something that I will ever get used to.
 
As sad as this may sound, but this thread is starting to sound like a competition of who has seen the most death. I think that is somewhat gruesome. I believe that this thread was meant as a means of support to those who are somewhat disturbed by death. In my experience, it is a lot more psychologically traumatizing to watch an infant die than an adult (which is why I could never be a pediatrician). This is because there is something terribly wrong with watching someone who hasn't even been given the chance to live a life, die. There is just something about the innocence of youth. Yes, I can handle watching infants pass away, but I don't think it is something that I will ever get used to.

Well, I've been working in acute care/SNFs since 2000. Sorry it offends you that I answered the OPs question. The OP talked about an infant death, but the question was posed generally. And some find an adult's death just as tragic as an infant. Picture a mother in childbirth or a father who supports a family of 4. People are even sad to see the elderly go believe it or not, even if they've told themselves they're prepared for it. They're still someone's mother/father, grandma/grandpa, brother/sister, etc. with a lot of history.

Being a pre-med forum, I think it's an interesting question and I'm even more curious to see the answers. It lets me know there aren't young adults going into this field completely star-struck and picture nothing but glam in this field, but realizing there is pain and grief that you will deal with but not necessarily ask for.

So, to the rest of the posters, if you're a pre-med and have seen a lot of people die, I'm interested to know your story.
 
I have seen death twice (once on a research animal, once in a family member) and the two were so similar it took me a while to get over it.
Im still waiting for s/o to explain how these two were "so similar?"
A/o???
 
I'm not sure how many people I've seen die, a fair number I'm sure (been a paramedic for 4 years). The first one wasn't so much disturbing as it was sureal, just odd to see a body there with none of the characteristics that define being human, just a lifeless heap. Others have been disturbing just due to the nature of the death, at times we see things that we just can't register for some reason (similar to seeing an amputation) the visual scene just doesn't fit with our preconceptions of "normal". ie. hands are supposed to be attached to arms, I've experienced a similar reaction to deaths at times; they were talking, breathing, moving, had normal skin color, now they don't.

i gotta echo what was said previously about not neccessarily looking at death as a purely statistical event. My experience (which may be different for others) is that at some point death stopped being a novelty, stopped being something that my brain just couldn't register as being "normal". Death became what I now see as (generally) a natural processes, after all that and taxes are the only guarantee in life. I still remain respeectful of the process, and at times feel privliged to be able to share in this experience with people, and yes at times cerrtain deaths still bother me, but its not as confusing a sitiuation as it once was, and personally that has made things a lot easier, made it much more possible to leave the situation at work and move on in my personal life as well as focus on the next patient.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahaydt
You make it seem as if the time was called prematurely. I'm assuming it took longer than your post makes it seem?


Must have taken 5-7 mins starting when I got down there.

When you're actively involved in patient care (which, by virtue of handing off the drugs to the nurse, you were), your perception of time is altered. I've had arrests that feel like we've been on-scene for 10 minutes when it's really been 30-40 minutes. When you're working (in any field really) and you're busy, time seems to pass quickly.
 
January 1, 2007...
My family and I were making our weekly market run. Dad called his best friend of close to 30 years (who was also older than him by about 15 years) to check on him and let him know that we were dropping by afterwards. Dad's friend sounded out of breath and... odd. We decided to go check on him and drove to his house instead of to the market. Dad/Mom gets out to check on him while the rest of us wait in the car, and not 15, maybe 30 minutes later, mom runs out screaming to me, "Get inside!! He's passed out and needs CPR and you and your dad are the only ones who knows how to do it!!! He needs help!!!!" Dad and I worked on him while Mom called the paramedics. He passed away just before they got there, but we still kept doing CPR. It was incredibly heartbreaking...

I've also volunteered/worked in NICUs for a few years and seen an all too many number of preemies die. It's sad... but what can you do except to help their families cope as best as possible? I'll tell you something though. They fight so damn hard for life... leaves me in awe.

These experiences only teach me to respect life and to appreciate it every chance I get.
But it does suck =\
 
Awwe I hope you feel better OP =/. That's always hard...I broke down so badly a few years back. I hadn't had ANYONE in my family or extended family die from when I was little until I was almost 14!!! I guess that's lucky but it made death some unreal or like it'd never happen or at least around me.

Then I watched a very close relative die to cancer (the very moment). Talk about heart break..First person that dies is extremely close and to a disease so horrible that you wish you could do something to change (part of the reason I am pre-medical).

I also saw 1 die at the Cancer Center during a Code Blue...scary experience but the way I am looking at it all is that it is something that we will have to experience at some time or another as a physician. I'm just going to work my A$$ off so that I am the best physician I can be and know the most stuff I can so that the patients have the highest chance of survival. And i know docs probably are told to stay emotionally detached from their patients, but i dont know if i'd ever fully be able to do that. It'll hurt everytime :(.

Keep up the good work though, nice of you to volunteer on Christmas Eve. It's my birthday today!!! so I plan on relaxing, reading some ochem, and drunk skateboarding at the park
 
I'm sorry you had to go through that. That sucks bigtime.
 
Yep. I was on the code team when I was working clinically. My first patient died on me (geriatric psychiatry unit; did chest compressions on her for 40 minutes, bagged her for another 5); but on the plus side, I've restarted a few hearts, too. :)
 
Hmm 5 - 7 minutes seems like a very, very short time based on the age of the child (lifespan left, ability to heal, etc.). Any med students or residents care to shed light on if this is the normal amount of time? I'm curious now.

]I read the report today, the code lasted total of 18 mins. There was no response at all. Investigation going on right now, but it said that the baby had failure to thrive.
 
First day volunteering at the ER. Will never forget it.
 
Sorry to ruin Christmas but I have to get this out. I saw a 3 month old die yesterday. I don't really know what happened, just that they needed a code cart so I bought them one in ER ( Every department has one, but whenever they call a code we bring them another cart.) Anyway the nurses and physicians were doing their thing and the nurse asked me if I could hand her some more lidocane and Atropine sulfate so I was doing that and then it just happened. It happened so fast, one second they are doing their thing and next the physician was calling it. Anyway I was the first to leave with the old cart and his parents were outside waiting and asked me what happened, so I was like doctor will be right with you. I am kind of upset...

I've seen a lot of people die. It's never easy, but it's just something we have to deal with in this profession. After a while, you just have to block it out emotionally, it's sort of cold but it's the only way to maintain your composure in front of the deceased's family and to keep it from affecting your work with other patients.

I'll tell you one thing though, it is one thing to see an adult either very sick/in pain or die. But it's another to see children that way. I don't know how pediatricians do it, I don't think I could ever practice as a ped. You gotta have respect for them.
 
I have. Family members (multiple). This is not the place to talk about it.
 
4 died today in the ER.
 
i've seen a couple of people die. on my first day of volunteering in the e.r., i saw one die. the next day, i saw another one. those didn't effect me much, if at all, fortunately.

what did effect me was not even a death i saw. my sister, in july, died by suicide while we were all at home. i heard the gunshot, and then heard my parents screaming and working on her, all while i called 911. while i know cpr, i decided not to go in a help my dad because i did not want to live with the image of my sister dead, with her head blown for the rest of my life. i didn't see her die, but it has been the hardest death i have ever experienced. but, op, i can say it gets better. take some time to yourself, and remember that time heals all wounds, however long it may take.
 
I have seen death twice (once on a research animal, once in a family member) and the two were so similar it took me a while to get over it.

k im asking this one more time then i jsut give up. can anyone (not just dwayne wade cuz he seemed to have disapeard) attempt to explain this one to me?? it still bothered me last night when i went home!!
how is a research animal even remotely similar to a human
please? anyone??
am i just being insensitive here b/c ive killed one too many rats?
 
k im asking this one more time then i jsut give up. can anyone (not just dwayne wade cuz he seemed to have disapeard) attempt to explain this one to me?? it still bothered me last night when i went home!!
how is a research animal even remotely similar to a human
please? anyone??
am i just being insensitive here b/c ive killed one too many rats?

Since you are so darn persistent...and I post and then leave rather than sit at my computer :rolleyes:
 
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Few quick points.

You never "get over" or "get used" to the death of your patients.

Walking past a code in the hallway or being peripherally involved in a code is a significantly different experience than being the physician who is making the decisions that either save, or fail to save someones life.

Anyone here can talk about all of their vast experiences seeing people die, but put on the long white coat and walk up to the family and explain to them that their loved one is gone.

Once you have done that you wont feel like posting about it on SDN.

Perhaps this thread should turn into a useful discussion on how physicians and medical students should conduct themselves when (not if) they are involved in these situations in the future
 
Few quick points.

You never "get over" or "get used" to the death of your patients.

Walking past a code in the hallway or being peripherally involved in a code is a significantly different experience than being the physician who is making the decisions that either save, or fail to save someones life.

Anyone here can talk about all of their vast experiences seeing people die, but put on the long white coat and walk up to the family and explain to them that their loved one is gone.

Once you have done that you wont feel like posting about it on SDN.

Perhaps this thread should turn into a useful discussion on how physicians and medical students should conduct themselves when (not if) they are involved in these situations in the future

I think those that have been in healthcare fields have legit experiences such as you describe. For example, the EMT/paramedic on the scene or a nurse (who also incidentally breaks the bad news, or at least has where I come from).

The long white coat is not unique to being directly involved in someone's death. But, for the sake of most pre-meds that haven't had a real career before, I see why you post this.

And, ultimately, no matter the pissing contest, the worst position to be in regarding death (that isn't your own) is when your immediate loved ones pass on in your presence.
 
The long white coat is not unique to being directly involved in someone's death. But, for the sake of most pre-meds that haven't had a real career before, I see why you post this.

I have many of the same stories as those above...as an ER Tech, EMT, Hospice Aide and medical student.

But when youre the one that pronounces a patient dead and signs the death certificate you tend to view things a whole lot differently.
 
I have many of the same stories as those above...as an ER Tech, EMT, Hospice Aide and medical student.

But when youre the one that pronounces a patient dead and signs the death certificate you tend to view things a whole lot differently.

I just don't see your point on this one. Calling it and signing a death certificate are just inevitables. Or perhaps I'm colder than I thought.
 
I just don't see your point on this one. Calling it and signing a death certificate are just inevitables. Or perhaps I'm colder than I thought.

I disagree.

You take care of a patient for more than a week. You know all their labs, their Xrays, their meds. You get called to run their code, you push drugs for 35 minutes. You pronounce, tell the family and sign the death certificate.

Now tell me how a premed volunteering in the ER comes close to that?
 
I disagree.

You take care of a patient for more than a week. You know all their labs, their Xrays, their meds. You get called to run their code, you push drugs for 35 minutes. You pronounce, tell the family and sign the death certificate.

Now tell me how a premed volunteering in the ER comes close to that?

I also included nursing. They get to know the patient extremely well.
 
ITs weird because something very similar happened to me when i was shadowing ER doctors.
My first day an old man came in with a heart attack. They tried to save him but couldn't. It happened very fast and the craziest part was that i had to go with the doctor to tell his family members that he had died. It was a surreal moment because it was so serious. It was literally me, the doctor, and the son of the guy who died in a room. The son really had no clue what happened was not expected the doctor to tell him that his dad had just died a few moments ago. After a sad and awkward 5 minutes of just watching the guy crying we left and a phycologist came and talked to him...
So yeah this really gave me a wake up call for the field of medicine and it also drew me closer to it. Because it made think that i could actually do something to prevent more of these sad moments from occurring or atleast delay them.
Peace out Detroit Basketball
 
I work alongside Dr's in the ER and have seen my share of people passing on. I agree with TexasTri in the sense that you have to understand death and I believe that witnessing it firsthand brings a better understanding.

Along with seeing people coding, I have also seen Dr's bring people back. It is one of the most amazing experiences that I have had inside the ER. A code came into the ER by ambo and the team of Nurses and the Dr got to work. It was an elderly lady with COPD so that didn't help but they were able to get her breathing again and get a steady heartrate. It was incredible to watch as the team worked together, everyone doing exactly what they were there for (it doesn't always go THAT smoothly).

Unfortunetly, people do pass on and Dr's can't save everyone that comes in be it child, adult or an elderly person but it's those times where they do help and they do bring someone back that we need to dwell on...
 
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