having second thoughts :-/

[luckyducky87]

This might be a length ramble, but I really want some opinions from others!

First of all, I applied to MD programs in 2008 summer as a young short-sighted college student, and ultimately did not get in. At this time, I am doing full time biochemistry research, and I was going to apply this summer to a mix of MD and MD/PhD programs. But as I am working on this lengthy, lengthy prehealth application (which I should have worked on months ago, actually ), I am having second thoughts.

Recently, with multiple events in my life and epiphanies, I've really decided that I want a "life." This might sound funny, but I used to be the kind of girl who was really career-driven and academic-focused, and nothing else seemed nearly as important. I figured, I'll just get into a med school first, get into a great residency next, work my ass off, but then get a good job, and then I can be set and I'll worry about the rest of my life then.

And of course, like everyone else, I've heard about how medicine is all about making a sacrifice, you have to be ready to miss out on the prime years of your life, be ready for the harsh hours as a resident, it'll be hard to manage and balance work with family life, blah blah blah. I've heard about them, and thought I acknowledged them, but now I am thinking that I've never really aborbed what they mean :-/

Recently, I keep thinking I really want to be in a steady relationship and have a settled/stable family eventually. I want to have children when I am at a decent age (not like-- hope to get a kid when I'm approaching 40's), and I don't want to miss out on major life events because work calls I know medicine is all about sacrificing, but now I am having second thoughts. And I really don't want to say that this is because I don't take medicine seriously or that I'm not "that interested," because I am... I don't know if that makes sense or if I'm conveying this thought correctly.

I am also just getting scared at the thought of realistically pulling consecutive all-nighters, having 30-hour shifts, being on call every few nights, and living that kind of lifestyle for many years in a row, especially during my prime years in life, and I get to come home only when I've reached my grumpiest state. When I was in college, I jokingly figured "haha I can just drink lots of coffee and it'd be like pulling all-nighters for an exam." But now, actually working 60+ hours in a lab, doing hours and hours of consistent mental work, and coming home at 8-9pm every day is exhausting. I think part of it is that I am constntly working under pressure in this high-profile lab with a lot of responsibilities, which is different from responsibilities of a college student just trying to get an A in a course. Unfortunately, this level of exhaustion is probably nothing compared to what a resident goes through, and I'm beginning to legitimately fear the residency years.

I don't know if I'm just getting burned out? or if it's like a fear response from having to go through a re-application process and I'm in denial mode for the fear of not getting in again? (But I really thought I got over the disappointment/trauma/bitterness of the 2008 cycle). Blearghhh, I'm really not sure. Does anyone have any similar stories/consolations/suggestions/opinions/anything??

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[Neurocentric]

I think you really need to weigh the pros and cons of your possible medical career vs doing something else. First off, do you even know if there's anything else you want to do?

While residency is going to be considerably tough, you CAN have a life, depending on the specialty you chose. This is what I've seen and read about, not necessarily my own experience, since I am pre-med.

I can't give you any real experience in the situation, but I definitely suggest sitting down and being very truthful with yourself. Write down what it is you think you'd miss out on being an MD and what you'd miss out on NOT being an MD. While it could very well be burnout and stress since your attempts to apply the first time did not result in a medical school acceptance, you DON'T want to be in medical school or in an internship miserable because you spent all this money to do what you didn't want to do.

I really wish I had more to say other than this, but I would just try and really sit down and think about it. Share your worries and fears with close friends or family, and let them give you some input. They might be able to help you sift out thoughts, or even ask you questions and probe answers you didn't know you could think about.

I wish you the best of luck

 

[drizzt3117]

I think it all depends what you decide to go into. Residency is going to suck in some specialties, and it won't be so bad in others. Med school is going to be pretty miserable no matter what though haha. Residency you might work harder but you're also a little higher on the totem pole which helps a bit.

 

[deleted307836]

I am also just getting scared at the thought of realistically pulling consecutive all-nighters, having 30-hour shifts, being on call every few nights, and living that kind of lifestyle for many years in a row, especially during my prime years in life, and I get to come home only when I've reached my grumpiest state. When I was in college, I jokingly figured "haha I can just drink lots of coffee and it'd be like pulling all-nighters for an exam." But now, actually working 60+ hours in a lab, doing hours and hours of consistent mental work, and coming home at 8-9pm every day is exhausting. I think part of it is that I am constntly working under pressure in this high-profile lab with a lot of responsibilities, which is different from responsibilities of a college student just trying to get an A in a course. Unfortunately, this level of exhaustion is probably nothing compared to what a resident goes through, and I'm beginning to legitimately fear the residency years.

As I college freshman myself I really don't have much to offer you from an experiential standpoint. But as another poster mentioned, there are some residencies in certain specialties that probably do not have this level of pressure (PM&R comes to mind).

But I thought this was a really interesting paragraph because it highlights the difference in responsibility between college students and graduates. The only jobs that many premeds (and myself included) have had are only laborious in nature and don't require much mental activity. I'd be curious to hear what residents have to say about the toll of both their job responsibility and hours combined.

 

[Appless]

two of my good friends in college actually went through something similar as you are. we all thought we were going to med school together and now that im going to be an M1 in a few months, they decided they wanted a family, kids, and a life. And now they are both on their way to pharm school in USC and stockton. They choose another route becuase of their lives and while im not saying you should do this, its certainly something to consider as a woman. Becuase im not its hard to say, but if i was a woman, i think i would seriously consider medicine and its affects on my life. have you thought about other careers that are similar such as PA, pharmacist, etc?

I still have some of the same fears you do but in the end i think a good question to ask yourself is can you be reasonably happy or imagine yourself doing anything else? For me i cant, theres very few things im even remotely interested in as much as i am medicine, and those things that i am interested in, none of them is something that is stable or can happen (i.e i want be an espn anchor or something like scott van pelt, or coach in the NFL haha yah right). If you can think of other careers you may like you might want to think about it if family is something you want.

im not saying you cant have a family or stable relationship if you become a doc, obvi you can. but its certianly more strain and makes things harder. good luck

Also another thing to think about is you can somewhat control your own hours depending on what specialty you choose. Granted your earning potential decreases but its possible. I know several part time docs even who are general peds or family med and work part time so they can be with their family. Idk how much they make or how it all works out if you have to take 200k in loans, but its possible. I dont think i could do medicine part time feasibly but for others it may work.
​

 

[smarttee88]

I have continuously been told that if there is anything other than medicine I can imagine myself happily doing 10 to 20 years from now, then that is what I should pursue. I am barely a pre-med and I constantly question whether I should go to Med School. The truth is that I am just not 100% sure. Some find it difficult to make the decision to take the long, strenuous route to becoming a Physician, while for others its a no brain er. I think you should do some deep soul searching and find out what, if not medicine, you could see yourself happily doing years from now. Life is about sacrifices. We can't have it all. Figure out what's MOST important for you and your future and take it from there.

 

[mdeast]

To be honest, having second thoughts is a normal, almost required part of this process. If there is seriously anyone on here who hasn't thought about doing something else, the sacrifices they'll have to make during their training, etc....then I seriously doubt they've thought enough about becoming a doctor.

This becomes more well informed when you take time off after college, because (in particular), you have time to see the non-medical career choices that friends make, the reality that sometimes "jobs are jobs" and the inevitable pressures of bills, paying for your life, but also seeking to enjoy it.

I have many of these same doubts...and I think that's why choosing a medical school becomes important. I've been on tons of interviews around the country and I can say with certainty....some medical schools take away your life. Others, encourage balance. Yes, your M3 year is practically a wash everywhere you go, but it's very possible to have an active social life as a med student, to enjoy your surroundings, to meet people. I know of many med students who get married while in school, either to fellow classmates, or long-time significant others that they met before coming in (or during). Many residents somehow find time to have children, settle in a house, start a family. If you enter med school at say...24...you'll be a full physician by a standard path by around 32. This really isn't too old, and I bet you'll have enjoyed those last 8 years both in and outside the clinic.

I think if you derive satisfaction from helping others, and it's an element of your career you can't be without...then go with medicine. There are sacrifices to be made, but I think you can definitely choose medical schools and/or residency programs that cater to your desire for life outside of school.

Medicine is such a diverse field, and there are many jobs outside the confines of the classical physician to explore. There are PharmDs, PhDs, RNs, MBAs, JDs, masters degree, etc. holders working throughout all levels of the healthcare industry. I want a career that isn't entirely clinical and combines some of those other ideas, which is why I've chosen to potentially pursue a dual degree.

In the end though, I think if you want a balanced life in medicine...there are many points in your career when you can make that decision. I also think there are definitely many other careers I could be happy in and successful in (you should have other skills too!...because none of us have any idea how to treat patients at this point in our careers...so we must be good at something else). But, for me, there are certain intangible realities of the journey to and end result of becoming a physician that I'm not sure I could live without.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

Another thing to consider about the family is you will have no idea how you will feel when the first kid comes, and as a woman, that is important. What I mean is best described in this example:

My wife graduated from a private school and went to a great local private college known for having a tough business school. She graduated in 3 years with an accounting degree, and a year later she graduated with her masters in accounting. We talked about it countless times and I knew she wanted a career, and she had many awesome job offers. We had everything planned and I was going to support her getting established so she could then support me to do what I wanted to do. It was a great plan. Baby #1 came and in a single moment she knew her dream was to be home. She dropped her corporate plans faster than I could get excited about being a father. It was all gone. And I supported it.

I know this is a long example, I know it doesn't pertain to everyone, but do know that having a real family changes everything. And it definitely is a good thing. Good luck and I wish you the best.

 

[Law2Doc]

...
While residency is going to be considerably tough, you CAN have a life, depending on the specialty you chose. This is what I've seen and read about, not necessarily my own experience, since I am pre-med.
...

Residency is not going to be particularly amenable to doing other things, regardless of the specialty. Some are better than others, but none are going to be "easy" and not require you to have to make sacrifices. Many of the "lifestyle" specialties require folks to do a prelim internship year, others have it categorically built in, but because the learning curve is so steep and there is so much to learn before they turn you loose as a senior, supervising others, you can expect to log the long hours. You will probably average in the 70s hour range in intern year during most of your rotation blocks, and if you are lucky, in the high 60s after that in some of the more lifestyle friendly fields. In others, the seniors actually work at least as much, if not more than the interns. On top of this you will be studying for various boards and in-service exams. And overnight 30 hour shifts will wear you down, make it hard to do fun stuff besides sleep on the one day off per week you will get. It's a lot of work. And it has to be a lot of work because there is so much to learn and you come out of med school knowing very little that you are going to need to do this job. And it's actually kind of fun much of the time. It's just that you are always tired, often grouchy, and generally not interested in doing anything else after you come home.

Medicine isn't for everyone, and if you do go into it, you have to have a degree of commitment beyond that of other fields. Because it's sort of like the military -- you show up when they tell you, leave when they tell you, don't get to call in sick, don't get much flexibility in terms of family events, your superiors get to call the shots and will let you have it when you screw up, etc. Generally, your time is not your own during residency, much like it wasn't during some third year rotations in med school. Think of it like enlisting in the army for 3-7 years, and you probably will get a sense of the picture. And I don't care if you are talking about peds or gen surg -- you are going to log a lot of hours and study on top of that and have a steep learning curve. You will work harder internship year than you probably ever have before. And although there won't be as steep a learning curve after that, the level of responsibility goes up and sometimes the hours stay up there too after that. Don't kid yourself into thinking there are "lifestyle friendly" residencies. You might get a few fewer hours here or there, but you are going to be working hard you will have tests you will need to be studying for on the side, and it will cut into time for other things.

 

[Marie85]

I felt the exact same way. I have actually been accepted and plan on starting in the fall. For a time, I was really having second thoughts. I too want a family and a life outside of work. I graduted in 2008 and have been working and see different lifestyles that are available.

I think it is normal to be confused, but you just need to figure out what is best for you. It's a hard decision though and I struggled with it as well. Ultimately, I decided to attend. It is your choice, but it's good to get other's points of views to help.

 

[Law2Doc]

... you have to be ready to miss out on the prime years of your life, ...

There's always the option of doing med school later, after you have finished the "prime years of your life". Lots of people change careers these days. If you wanted to do something lifestyle friendly during your 20s and then dive into med school a decade later, there isn't anything preventing that (other than whatever obligations you create for yourself along the way).

 

[drizzt3117]

While I think people underestimate the amount of work there is in residency, I think it's untrue to say this isn't that field dependent. For example, derm compared to neurosurg... Fam med/pc compared to vascular or transplant surgery?

I work with rads residents on a daily basis. Their days are generally 730-530, 5.5 days a week (one weekend shift every other week) with night flow one week every 2 months. Obviously that's still a decent amount of hours but I don't think it precludes having a life, it certainly doesn't seem to for them.

My brother, however, is in a surgical specialty and just gets slammed... So it just depends.

Residency is not going to be particularly amenable to doing other things, regardless of the specialty. Some are better than others, but none are going to be "easy" and not require you to have to make sacrifices. Many of the "lifestyle" specialties require folks to do a prelim internship year, others have it categorically built in, but because the learning curve is so steep and there is so much to learn before they turn you loose as a senior, supervising others, you can expect to log the long hours. You will probably average in the 70s hour range in intern year during most of your rotation blocks, and if you are lucky, in the high 60s after that in some of the more lifestyle friendly fields. In others, the seniors actually work at least as much, if not more than the interns. On top of this you will be studying for various boards and in-service exams. And overnight 30 hour shifts will wear you down, make it hard to do fun stuff besides sleep on the one day off per week you will get. It's a lot of work. And it has to be a lot of work because there is so much to learn and you come out of med school knowing very little that you are going to need to do this job. And it's actually kind of fun much of the time. It's just that you are always tired, often grouchy, and generally not interested in doing anything else after you come home.

Medicine isn't for everyone, and if you do go into it, you have to have a degree of commitment beyond that of other fields. Because it's sort of like the military -- you show up when they tell you, leave when they tell you, don't get to call in sick, don't get much flexibility in terms of family events, your superiors get to call the shots and will let you have it when you screw up, etc. Generally, your time is not your own during residency, much like it wasn't during some third year rotations in med school. Think of it like enlisting in the army for 3-7 years, and you probably will get a sense of the picture. And I don't care if you are talking about peds or gen surg -- you are going to log a lot of hours and study on top of that and have a steep learning curve. You will work harder internship year than you probably ever have before. And although there won't be as steep a learning curve after that, the level of responsibility goes up and sometimes the hours stay up there too after that. Don't kid yourself into thinking there are "lifestyle friendly" residencies. You might get a few fewer hours here or there, but you are going to be working hard you will have tests you will need to be studying for on the side, and it will cut into time for other things.

 

[flip26]

Any career worth having requires a huge commitment of time. Unless you want to simply go the route of having a steady 40 hour a week gig somewhere - which will be in a job with very little future or financial upside - you will have to make sacrifices particularly in the early part of that career. Medicine may be tougher than most professions because of the length of the training period, but people climbing the ladder in law, investment banking, consulting, etc., work outrageous hours.

Seriously, you might look into dentistry if you have the slightest interest. I have zero interest, but that is a sweet gig in which you can control your hours, and there is no residency bullspit to go through...

 

[Law2Doc]

While I think people underestimate the amount of work there is in residency, I think it's untrue to say this isn't that field dependent. For example, derm compared to neurosurg... Fam med/pc compared to vascular or transplant surgery?

I work with rads residents on a daily basis. Their days are generally 730-530, 5.5 days a week (one weekend shift every other week) with night flow one week every 2 months. Obviously that's still a decent amount of hours but I don't think it precludes having a life, it certainly doesn't seem to for them.

My brother, however, is in a surgical specialty and just gets slammed... So it just depends.

Sort of. Honestly you are probably really talking about the difference between folks who average 60-70 hours per week versus folks who average 70-80 hours per week. And both are expected to do a certain amount of reading on top (with fields like rads probably being expected to do the most reading outside of work, as compared to some surgical folks where due to the time involved, are expected to do the least). And you can't dismiss the "prelim year" they have in most of the lifestyle fields. Most of the ROAD specialty folks (as well as neuro, PM&R) do IM prelim years where the average hours are in the 70s. A lucky handful get the cushier transitional years, but that's a pretty insignificant percentage of the upper echelon folks. Then in eg derm or rads you generally go into a 60+ hour a week residency, at least for the earlier years. Sure that's better than surgery where you are probably riding the 80 hour/week average line for all 5 years, but if you are doing 65 hours/week in rads and also having to read 3 hours per night for your physics and inservice exams is that really all that different than being in the hospital for 80 hours as a surgery resident? The answer is, probably not. A little of your time is more flexible, and that is huge, but in terms of whether you are able to have a life outside of work, the answer is in both cases you will be juggling. So yes there's better, but it's one of degree, not absolute. Expect to work hard during residency, regardless of what you go into. As a premed, I think you guys get a warped view of intense versus chill. You have to realize that when it's a difference of 65 hours per week (plus lots of reading) vs 80 hours per week, neither is really "easy" coming from the undergrad perspective, although folks living those two lives definitely regard the other as intense vs chill. It's an eye of the beholder thing. And from the premed vantage point, it should all look intense, if you want to be honest.

And it's "night float", not "night flow".

 

[Neurocentric]

Residency is not going to be particularly amenable to doing other things, regardless of the specialty. Some are better than others, but none are going to be "easy" and not require you to have to make sacrifices. Many of the "lifestyle" specialties require folks to do a prelim internship year, others have it categorically built in, but because the learning curve is so steep and there is so much to learn before they turn you loose as a senior, supervising others, you can expect to log the long hours. You will probably average in the 70s hour range in intern year during most of your rotation blocks, and if you are lucky, in the high 60s after that in some of the more lifestyle friendly fields. In others, the seniors actually work at least as much, if not more than the interns. On top of this you will be studying for various boards and in-service exams. And overnight 30 hour shifts will wear you down, make it hard to do fun stuff besides sleep on the one day off per week you will get. It's a lot of work. And it has to be a lot of work because there is so much to learn and you come out of med school knowing very little that you are going to need to do this job. And it's actually kind of fun much of the time. It's just that you are always tired, often grouchy, and generally not interested in doing anything else after you come home.

Medicine isn't for everyone, and if you do go into it, you have to have a degree of commitment beyond that of other fields. Because it's sort of like the military -- you show up when they tell you, leave when they tell you, don't get to call in sick, don't get much flexibility in terms of family events, your superiors get to call the shots and will let you have it when you screw up, etc. Generally, your time is not your own during residency, much like it wasn't during some third year rotations in med school. Think of it like enlisting in the army for 3-7 years, and you probably will get a sense of the picture. And I don't care if you are talking about peds or gen surg -- you are going to log a lot of hours and study on top of that and have a steep learning curve. You will work harder internship year than you probably ever have before. And although there won't be as steep a learning curve after that, the level of responsibility goes up and sometimes the hours stay up there too after that. Don't kid yourself into thinking there are "lifestyle friendly" residencies. You might get a few fewer hours here or there, but you are going to be working hard you will have tests you will need to be studying for on the side, and it will cut into time for other things.

I never said specifically that there are lifestyle friendly residencies. And there are other people besides me who said sometimes your specialty can determine how much "outside of the hospital" time you can have, so I'm not really sure why you just had to quote me.

I am fully aware of the hours I will have to go through, and I am fully aware that internship year is going to suck as far as the workload. However, I was merely trying to help the OP see a small light at the end of the tunnel, and I ended my sentence by saying this is not my experience, but some that I have read and seen. Obviously, if you're in a lighter specialty, as the years go by you're given more responsibility, but a lot of the scut work is left for someone lower on the totem pole.

I am sorry if anything I told the OP is misinterpreted as incorrect. I was just trying to make her feel better.

 

[Law2Doc]

I never said specifically that there are lifestyle friendly residencies. And there are other people besides me who said sometimes your specialty can determine how much "outside of the hospital" time you can have, so I'm not really sure why you just had to quote me.

I am fully aware of the hours I will have to go through, and I am fully aware that internship year is going to suck as far as the workload. However, I was merely trying to help the OP see a small light at the end of the tunnel, and I ended my sentence by saying this is not my experience, but some that I have read and seen. Obviously, if you're in a lighter specialty, as the years go by you're given more responsibility, but a lot of the scut work is left for someone lower on the totem pole.

I am sorry if anything I told the OP is misinterpreted as incorrect. I was just trying to make her feel better.

I just used your quote as a launching point, not to attack you. I think the problem with looking at it as a "light at the end of the tunnel" is that the tunnel is awfully long and hard to travel through and for someone worried about losing "the prime years" of their life, the tunnel itself is the problem, not what lies beyond.

 

[Neurocentric]

And from the premed vantage point, it should all look intense, if you want to be honest.

I agree with you; it is intense looking from my perspective.

Personally, I think that's what drives me the most, if that makes sense.

 

[Neurocentric]

I just used your quote as a launching point, not to attack you. I think the problem with looking at it as a "light at the end of the tunnel" is that the tunnel is awfully long and hard to travel through and for someone worried about losing "the prime years" of their life, the tunnel itself is the problem, not what lies beyond.

I misunderstood you, and I apologize.

 

[Infinitydrop]

I don't know, if you look at medicine as a life of sacriface, then i don't think you will be very happy. To me,working at a boring from from 9-5 for the rest of my life would be the real sacriface. Plenty of women have both a family and career, so its def doable. You will learn so much interesting things in med school, and residency is really a job like any other where you have to work hard. Right now, i am working from 9-6 and i actually expect to have more free time next year than now.

 

[drizzt3117]

First of all, most everyone I know who is doing a ROAD specialty is doing a "cushy" transitional year who wanted to. Yes there are some people who aren't, but a lot of the time that's by choice (rads or anesthesia people choosing to do prelim surgery) or other reasons. It's not THAT hard to match into a transitional year. My brother's gf is a derm resident in PGY-2, and she works a good ~50 hours a week or so. Their schedules are like night and day. Yes, it's going to be a lot harder than undergrad, but she says PGY-2 had a substantially lower time commitment than M3. Obviously there's a lot more responsibility.

Sort of. Honestly you are probably really talking about the difference between folks who average 60-70 hours per week versus folks who average 70-80 hours per week. And both are expected to do a certain amount of reading on top (with fields like rads probably being expected to do the most reading outside of work, as compared to some surgical folks where due to the time involved, are expected to do the least). And you can't dismiss the "prelim year" they have in most of the lifestyle fields. Most of the ROAD specialty folks (as well as neuro, PM&R) do IM prelim years where the average hours are in the 70s. A lucky handful get the cushier transitional years, but that's a pretty insignificant percentage of the upper echelon folks. Then in eg derm or rads you generally go into a 60+ hour a week residency, at least for the earlier years. Sure that's better than surgery where you are probably riding the 80 hour/week average line for all 5 years, but if you are doing 65 hours/week in rads and also having to read 3 hours per night for your physics and inservice exams is that really all that different than being in the hospital for 80 hours as a surgery resident? The answer is, probably not. A little of your time is more flexible, and that is huge, but in terms of whether you are able to have a life outside of work, the answer is in both cases you will be juggling. So yes there's better, but it's one of degree, not absolute. Expect to work hard during residency, regardless of what you go into. As a premed, I think you guys get a warped view of intense versus chill. You have to realize that when it's a difference of 65 hours per week (plus lots of reading) vs 80 hours per week, neither is really "easy" coming from the undergrad perspective, although folks living those two lives definitely regard the other as intense vs chill. It's an eye of the beholder thing. And from the premed vantage point, it should all look intense, if you want to be honest.

And it's "night float", not "night flow".

 

[klmnop]

do nursing or be a PA, its a good alternative... though hours can still be rough

 

[alibai3ah]

Let me preface this by saying, that I will be an M1 this fall so I don't have any "real" experience.

For me, I have to be happy at my job. And not just overall happy, but remember a job is 40-50 hours/week for upwards of 35 years. This is a ridiculous number of hours that you spend on your job (almost comparable to the hours you spend with your family). I felt like I don't want a dead-end desk job 40 hours a week diong data entry or working in some small lab hoping for something to happen. I need a job that is not monotonous, that has new things happen day to day, that is challenging, that deals with people, that in one way or another includes science/human-body, has a lot of opportunities for things like teaching, going abroad, doing some leadership/administration.

Once I came down to what I NEEDED in a career, medicine is what really fit my goals. I am a guy so for me this decision is easier. I admit, that girls have MUCH more to think about. However, I have talked to many of my friends (girls) who feel the same way as you. I tell them that if you really can't see yourself anything other than a doctor, just go for it.

In my opinion it is MUCH better to risk having a time-consuming job, then to have a guaranteed job that you hate and dread going to Monday to Friday. Hope that helps a bit!

 

[Law2Doc]

First of all, most everyone I know who is doing a ROAD specialty is doing a "cushy" transitional year who wanted to. Yes there are some people who aren't, but a lot of the time that's by choice (rads or anesthesia people choosing to do prelim surgery) or other reasons. It's not THAT hard to match into a transitional year.

Um no. There aren't enough cushy transitional year programs to go around, and they tend to get grabbed up by the tops of the ROAD folks. The MAJORITY (meaning most of the people, and I kid you not) are going to have to do prelim years. Sorry, but that's the way it works out. You will meet lots of derm and rads and gas folks doing prelim IM residencies. Not because they chose it over transitional, but because the cushy transitional program they wanted got better caliber applicants. That's just the way it pans out. Don't go with the whole "most everyone I know" argument (which happens to be dead wrong in this case -- you obviously know a very well credentialed crowd, but not a good cross section). You can check the numbers. The number of transitional seats is but a very small percentage of the number of first year ROAD seats. And of those transitionals, only about half are what you would call "cushy". The vast vast vast majority of folks going road are going to do a prelim year. The number of prelim seats far exceeds the number of ROAD, neuro and PM&R seats. Odds are that if you get into a ROAD specialty (which already means you beat the odds in med school), you are going to do a prelim year. If you excel past this to a transitional, kudos for you but that's not the norm. Sorry no.

 

[Law2Doc]

... and residency is really a job like any other where you have to work hard. ...

No it isn't, because your time is not your own, you lose all flexibility. Look at it this way, you are working at your residency vs a corporate job. Something comes up at home that needs to be attended to -- a minor emergency. At a corporate job (or something like my prior career), you tell them "I need to duck out for an hour" and that's fine. And if it ends up being 2 hours, that's still fine. At a residency, you won't even bother asking if you can leave. You can't. You are responsible for the patients on your watch, and depending on the size of the program, there probably isn't anyone to relieve you for an hour anyhow. There's no calling in sick. There's no ability to sit on calls because you aren't ready to talk to that person -- if the pager rings, you are expected to answer it immediately. You have no control. And that's the key difference that makes residency so unlike any other job where you have to work hard. It's far more like the military than a private sector job. Someone else dictates when you come and go, what you will be doing when you get there, what you are allowed to wear, and so on. You can pretty much put aside all non-residency matters during business hours. This loss of control makes it very different. And makes you have to juggle things around it, rather than a mix of juggling work and non-work. In residency, work comes first, whether you like it or not.

 

[luckyducky87]

Thank you all for the input. I'm sorta overwhelmed at the moment and I'm not sure that I can come up with a cohesive response, but I did read all of the comments, and thanks!

I'm just wondering - do all med students have no other serious hobbies? And I really don't mean that in a bad way, but for instance, I love playing the cello. I want to have at least an hour of me-time where I can practice the cello, watch youtube, etc where I can unwind (maybe not every single day, but a couple of hours every other day at least). If I don't have that hour or so of seriously music time, I get really grumpy and get in the mindset of how my job is making me "sacrifice" my life. But I'll make it clear right now that I don't want to pursue music. I've already shown myself many times that I don't have the kind of perseverance and personality to make it in the music business, and in the past, if I had to force myself to practice for hours, I just got unhappy actually. So I guess what I ultimately want is a job in the sciences/medicine, but where I can definitely have a balanced life with music and family life. And I cannot imagine losing either of these completely at any given time (even if for a mere "few" years of my entire life in the grand scheme of things). And I don't know if this is something that's *at all* possible in medicine if I tried to make it work.

As for related fields - I can tell you that I have no interest in dentistry whatsoever Others, I'm actually not even sure about.

 

[flip26]

Thank you all for the input. I'm sorta overwhelmed at the moment and I'm not sure that I can come up with a cohesive response, but I did read all of the comments, and thanks!

I'm just wondering - do all med students have no other serious hobbies? And I really don't mean that in a bad way, but for instance, I love playing the cello. I want to have at least an hour of me-time where I can practice the cello, watch youtube, etc where I can unwind (maybe not every single day, but a couple of hours every other day at least). If I don't have that hour or so of seriously music time, I get really grumpy and get in the mindset of how my job is making me "sacrifice" my life. But I'll make it clear right now that I don't want to pursue music. I've already shown myself many times that I don't have the kind of perseverance and personality to make it in the music business, and in the past, if I had to force myself to practice for hours, I just got unhappy actually. So I guess what I ultimately want is a job in the sciences/medicine, but where I can definitely have a balanced life with music and family life. And I cannot imagine losing either of these completely at any given time (even if for a mere "few" years of my entire life in the grand scheme of things). And I don't know if this is something that's *at all* possible in medicine if I tried to make it work.

As for related fields - I can tell you that I have no interest in dentistry whatsoever Others, I'm actually not even sure about.

Your life won't be balanced for the next 7 to 10 years or more depending on the length of your residency. But people make it through...my next door neighbors are a couple of married residents in hectic programs, and they had a big outdoor party Sat night...they do that about once a month or so...you will find time for the things you care about most, but you won't have oodles of time on your hands.

And you should have an avg of an hour a day to play the cello for almost every day of med school and most days of residency...but the goal of having a balanced family life, assuming you mean marriage and children, is probably a real long shot, although some of these super moms do it - more power to 'em, but I can't imagine it, and I am a guy...

 

[Law2Doc]

Thank you all for the input. I'm sorta overwhelmed at the moment and I'm not sure that I can come up with a cohesive response, but I did read all of the comments, and thanks!

I'm just wondering - do all med students have no other serious hobbies? And I really don't mean that in a bad way, but for instance, I love playing the cello. I want to have at least an hour of me-time where I can practice the cello, watch youtube, etc where I can unwind (maybe not every single day, but a couple of hours every other day at least). If I don't have that hour or so of seriously music time, I get really grumpy and get in the mindset of how my job is making me "sacrifice" my life. But I'll make it clear right now that I don't want to pursue music. I've already shown myself many times that I don't have the kind of perseverance and personality to make it in the music business, and in the past, if I had to force myself to practice for hours, I just got unhappy actually. So I guess what I ultimately want is a job in the sciences/medicine, but where I can definitely have a balanced life with music and family life. And I cannot imagine losing either of these completely at any given time (even if for a mere "few" years of my entire life in the grand scheme of things). And I don't know if this is something that's *at all* possible in medicine if I tried to make it work.

As for related fields - I can tell you that I have no interest in dentistry whatsoever Others, I'm actually not even sure about.

In the first two years of med school there should be time to play cello and watch you tube every single day although you may want to cut this back during exam weeks. During third year you will have some rotations (Surg, IM, OB) rotations where you are getting to the hospital at 5am and coming home late in the evening and probably will just eat, glance over whatever medical issue your patients have on UpToDate and go to sleep. But you will also have other rotations (psych, family med) where you ought to have some time to unwind. During 4th year you will have a decent amount of free time during months that you aren't doing a Sub-I, but your focus will be on the residency process (and maybe Step 2) until the match in March. Once march rolls around most people schedule themselves a rather light load and coast to the finish line. Then in June residency starts and you end up with no free time again. You may be working 70-80 hours/week with periodic 30 hour shifts, and so when you do have free time you usually will be too tired to do something productive other than sleep. And since you only have one day off a week and don't want to waste it all sleeping, you never feel caught up. But in a way it's not so bad, and time flies very very fast when you never come home.

Now don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying it sux or that people shouldn't go into medicine or that it's not worth it, etc. It was a good path for me and is for the right person. But if you haven't even started and are already prioritizing that it's not worth it to you unless (1) you get time to play cello, and (2) have the time to start a family, and (3) don't want to miss out on the prime of your life, and so on, then maybe you need to think about this a bit more. Med school will always be there. There is a way to balance some of what you want, but with the give and take involved, there's no way you get everything you want on this path. There will be sacrifices. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing -- you are giving up some of what you want to get most of what you want. But if it's an all or nothing kind of analysis -- I'd only do med school if I have time for X,Y and Z, then I'm not sure in good faith I could advise you to proceed down this road.

 

[klmnop]

In the first two years of med school there should be time to play cello and watch you tube every single day although you may want to cut this back during exam weeks. During third year you will have some rotations (Surg, IM, OB) rotations where you are getting to the hospital at 5am and coming home late in the evening and probably will just eat, glance over whatever medical issue your patients have on UpToDate and go to sleep. But you will also have other rotations (psych, family med) where you ought to have some time to unwind. During 4th year you will have a decent amount of free time during months that you aren't doing a Sub-I, but your focus will be on the residency process (and maybe Step 2) until the match in March. Once march rolls around most people schedule themselves a rather light load and coast to the finish line. Then in June residency starts and you end up with no free time again. You may be working 70-80 hours/week with periodic 30 hour shifts, and so when you do have free time you usually will be too tired to do something productive other than sleep. And since you only have one day off a week and don't want to waste it all sleeping, you never feel caught up. But in a way it's not so bad, and time flies very very fast when you never come home.

sounds terribly awesome
better start knocking people up now so i have someone to be with that will be forced to endure that schedule

 

[Law2Doc]

sounds terribly awesome
better start knocking people up now so i have someone to be with that will be forced to endure that schedule

It's not so bad, once you get used to it. So long as you focus on all the cool things you get to do and don't dwell on what things you aren't getting to do. As far as "knocking people up", having babies during this period leads to the balance issues mentioned above.

 

[luckyducky87]

... having babies during this period leads to the balance issues mentioned above.

This is one of the big things I'm worried about

 

[flip26]

This is one of the big things I'm worried about

Are you married now, or soon to be? When do you see yourself having these babies? If soon, I say defer med school until the kids are school aged, and assuming you have a super supportive spouse who can support the fam and you going through med school...

Or are you just having vague dreams about the idyllic married / family life? Cuz half of them end up in divorce...being married and having kids in your twenties is really tough to do, and med school would probably break most people.

 

[klmnop]

As far as "knocking people up", having babies during this period leads to the balance issues mentioned above.

yeah obviously, fortunately i'm currently not in a position where i am being pressured to provide my genetic syrup for a generation of future klmno's

 

[faw20]

I'm just wondering - do all med students have no other serious hobbies? And I really don't mean that in a bad way, but for instance, I love playing the cello. I want to have at least an hour of me-time where I can practice the cello, watch youtube, etc where I can unwind (maybe not every single day, but a couple of hours every other day at least). If I don't have that hour or so of seriously music time, I get really grumpy and get in the mindset of how my job is making me "sacrifice" my life. But I'll make it clear right now that I don't want to pursue music. I've already shown myself many times that I don't have the kind of perseverance and personality to make it in the music business, and in the past, if I had to force myself to practice for hours, I just got unhappy actually. So I guess what I ultimately want is a job in the sciences/medicine, but where I can definitely have a balanced life with music and family life. And I cannot imagine losing either of these completely at any given time (even if for a mere "few" years of my entire life in the grand scheme of things). And I don't know if this is something that's *at all* possible in medicine if I tried to make it work.

I am an active violinist, and have been gigging throughout medical school. I am contracted with one orchestra (6-7 concert series per academic year), and am on the sub list for several other orchestras (and often am able to accept these gigs) in addition to playing for weddings/receptions. It definitely can be done, with some creativity and compromise. My gigging schedule lightened during 3rd year, but I still was able to maintain my outside medicine life as an active musician (including on my OB and surgery rotations and during my surgery sub-i). Despite how busy it made me, it really helped me focus on school and do better academically. I cannot yet speak how to make it work in residency.... ask me again in a few months. I am not as good a violinist as I was when I started medical school. And it's frustrating. But that is a compromise I have made because I have chosen medicine as a career not music. If continuing to play the cello is something that is important to you, you will figure out a way to make it work. Law2Doc makes great points about the reality that medicine will consume the majority of your life, and lots of it you won't have control over. But you will also have some free time (at least as a student); how you choose to spend it is your choice.

The same thing goes with having a family life, getting married, popping out a couple of kids. Plenty of people (women too) make it work in medical school and in residency. Is it difficult? Absolutely. Can it be done? Yes. It's something you'll just have to work at.

I think the 2 bigger questions you need to answer for yourself is what combination of work and personal time will make you happiest, and what are you willing to sacrifice for a career in medicine? Only you can answer those questions.

 

[Kimaris]

You're 22 years old. You'll graduate medical school by age 26-27. Given your lifestyle preference you'll more than likely choose three to four year residency (no surgery...). You'll finish your residency when you're 29-30. It may be hard to foster a serious relationship during residency, however, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't give yourself a chance. You're probably going to be surrounded by the same people for HOURS some sort of relationship is bound to form. If you don't see yourself taking the adequate time to become a doctor then medical school may not be for you.

 

[klmnop]

Also, you're assuming that the relationship you are currently in, or will be in soon, will make it that far despite med school. meaning if you were a banker it would still work out... maybe, maybe not.

you can't make life decisions based on 'maybes' and 'what-ifs'. be a doctor and then figure out how to manage your life/relationships as you go. its true that no woman wants to end up like tina fey in baby mama, but you don't wanna end up like cheaper by the dozen either.

i'm young, but i do know that life is about the unexpected... and the only things that make it worth toughing it out are new experiences and new friends.. so that someday they can become old friends and fond memories. find a way to have both of these or you'll miss out.

 

[Neurocentric]

I also wanted to add something, since the prospect of having children has been weighing on your mind. This is something I CAN relate to.

I am not a traditional student. I am 24 and just starting my undergraduate freshman year this fall. I love kids and would also love a family. While I cannot pick a specialty or even think about picking one until I have been on the wards firsthand, I do tend to lean towards surgery - neurosurgery, actually. My reasoning is not relevant, nor is anyone saying that is one of the toughest specialties. I know it is.

Best scenario, I finish undergrad in four years (I might need an extra year, so says my pre-med advisor, but I honestly don't see that), and finish medical school right after. I will be 32 years old by the time I hit internship. Most people would have been finished with their residency by now. Children might not be a possibility for me, and while that makes me sad, I just can't give this up. I've said I was going to look for something that would enable me to have a family, and I have always come back to this. I can't let it go and I can't NOT be a physician. The long hours and shifts and stress will be something I will handle, because I want it so much.

My point is, I understand where you are coming from with wanting a child, but I am choosing my career first, and will see what happens as far as family. If it does not happen, I won't regret the decision I made, despite how much I'd love a child (or two). But this is just me. Like others have said, you can always apply and matriculate at medical school a little later down the road if you want to have children, but that's only if you want to wait a bit before doing so. I'm certainly not saying this to discourage you, but it really sounds like maybe this might not be something that you really want to do, given your want/need for a family and free hours. Law2Doc gave some awesome information, and hit the nail right on the head as far as what you will see in the coming years. If you really don't believe this is what you want, I wouldn't pursue it any further.

 

[TheRadiologist]

Having graduated from medical school over two decades ago, I can share my experience of a career in medicine. For me the most difficult time was the pre-med years in college worrying about getting into med school. Once in medical school there was a lot of hard work but less stress. I only pulled one all-nighter to study in med school. I did not find the fist two years too difficult. It was just a lot of memorization. Nothing was difficult to understand. The third year was the most challenging. I had a 12 week surgery clerkship at Cook County Hospital with call every three days. Being on call in this clerkship required working non stop for 33 hours without sleep doing mostly scut. When you don’t sleep on some of the days the weeks seem to go by much faster. By comparison, fourth year was almost a vacation. Residency in Radiology had better hours than most other specialties, but required a massive amount of studying to learn vast amount of knowledge need learn this specialty. My spouse was an Internal Medicine resident and had a much harder life. Having a modest resident salary did improve the quality of life compared to medical school and I did not feel my prime years were wasted.

Life got much better after residency and fellowship. It was difficult to raise two children with a physician spouse, but I have more time to spend with my children then most people working in other professions. Many of my friends in the business world have to travel extensively and have very little time for their children and family. Doctors are not the only people working hard, look at any one who is reasonably successful and you will find that they are working much more than the 40 hours. I would say I average about 55 hours a week, which I do not think is that bad since I do not have to travel out of town.

Don’t forget that you can work part time when your children are young. My wife took six months off for each of the two children we had, but otherwise worked full time. We did have to use nannies and day care services, but had a reasonable amount of time to spend with the kids. Depending on the specialty you choose, medicine does give you a lot of flexibility to work part time.

We had our kids just after residency, but I do know people who have had kids in medical school and residency. This is not easy, but it can be done if you have some family support.

Bottom line:

I have absolutely no regrets about my choice of career. If I could do go back in time and start again, I would do the same thing.

Was it easy?
- No, but it was definitely worth the effort.

What do I like most about my job?
-I am actually doing real work that makes a real difference in people’s lives, unlike some of my friends in business who are not sure if they are doing any real work other than writing memos, attending meetings and giving presentations. I never have to justify the need for the service that I provide, because my services are essential. Many jobs in business can be eliminated and no one would notice the difference.

 

[LoganLC]

Great post. Thanks for your perspective. I know that I tend to worry excessively about the demands of residency, while losing sight of the later years. After all, they make up the majority of your career.

I am a non-trad who has worked in a couple of other fields before heading back to med school. The senior folks in both of these fields who are successful at what they do have extremely demanding lives. I completely agree with your point that medicine is not the only career path that will take you away from children, hobbies, and "having a life" - OP, this is definitely worth bearing in mind.

Having graduated from medical school over two decades ago, I can share my experience of a career in medicine. For me the most difficult time was the pre-med years in college worrying about getting into med school. Once in medical school there was a lot of hard work but less stress. I only pulled one all-nighter to study in med school. I did not find the fist two years too difficult. It was just a lot of memorization. Nothing was difficult to understand. The third year was the most challenging. I had a 12 week surgery clerkship at Cook County Hospital with call every three days. Being on call in this clerkship required working non stop for 33 hours without sleep doing mostly scut. When you don’t sleep on some of the days the weeks seem to go by much faster. By comparison, fourth year was almost a vacation. Residency in Radiology had better hours than most other specialties, but required a massive amount of studying to learn vast amount of knowledge need learn this specialty. My spouse was an Internal Medicine resident and had a much harder life. Having a modest resident salary did improve the quality of life compared to medical school and I did not feel my prime years were wasted.

Life got much better after residency and fellowship. It was difficult to raise two children with a physician spouse, but I have more time to spend with my children then most people working in other professions. Many of my friends in the business world have to travel extensively and have very little time for their children and family. Doctors are not the only people working hard, look at any one who is reasonably successful and you will find that they are working much more than the 40 hours. I would say I average about 55 hours a week, which I do not think is that bad since I do not have to travel out of town.

Don’t forget that you can work part time when your children are young. My wife took six months off for each of the two children we had, but otherwise worked full time. We did have to use nannies and day care services, but had a reasonable amount of time to spend with the kids. Depending on the specialty you choose, medicine does give you a lot of flexibility to work part time.

We had our kids just after residency, but I do know people who have had kids in medical school and residency. This is not easy, but it can be done if you have some family support.

Bottom line:

I have absolutely no regrets about my choice of career. If I could do go back in time and start again, I would do the same thing.

Was it easy?
- No, but it was definitely worth the effort.

What do I like most about my job?
-I am actually doing real work that makes a real difference in people’s lives, unlike some of my friends in business who are not sure if they are doing any real work other than writing memos, attending meetings and giving presentations. I never have to justify the need for the service that I provide, because my services are essential. Many jobs in business can be eliminated and no one would notice the difference.

 

[Law2Doc]

You can atill have hobbies as a resident. In my internship year I was averaging 70-80 workweeks and still went figure ice skating on my freebee days which were 2 awesome days every 3 weeks and frequently watch japanese anime. A lot of my peers went to parties on their post call day. I sometimes did that, though I usually used the post call afternoon to sleep and woke up at 10 pm to watch tv or study. You simply get used to it.

I personally don't wish to live the med school student life ever again. Studying and studying and studying. Internship wears you down in a different way, but it's more interactive than just sitting in a library all day. You are also learning stuff that's really useful.

Maybe you should go try shadowing doctors a bit more and ask them questions. I'm female myself and wish to do a residency. I have no plans right now to have children, not really my cup of tea but I'm more of the exception than the rule.

Just to clarify (since vasca is in a non-US system) -- in the US the internship IS the first year of residency. Also in the US you will by the ACGME rules get 1 day off in 7 (effectively 4 days off per month) which are rarely together and usually on the weekend, and frequently post-call so you may spend a lot of the day off sleeping.

 

[Law2Doc]

...
-I am actually doing real work that makes a real difference in people's lives, unlike some of my friends in business who are not sure if they are doing any real work other than writing memos, attending meetings and giving presentations. I never have to justify the need for the service that I provide, because my services are essential. Many jobs in business can be eliminated and no one would notice the difference.

You were doing so well until you hit that last paragraph. Let's not kid ourselves that medicine is the only type of work that makes a real difference in people's lives though. When I was a lawyer some of my physician friends used to talk like your statement above, and I was quick to point out that without the bankers and lawyers like myself doing their (non "real work") jobs the hospital they worked in simply would not exist. Nor would anyone own an MRI or CT scanner, or other major hospital equipment. Apartment buildings, shopping malls, hospitals -- these are all the product of a lot of lawyering and banking and oodles of paperwork and pitches. You can't look at it microscopically (ie a single memo) and extrapolate that the person isn't doing something macroscopically. The infrastructure of this nation only exists because of the paper pushing of lawyers and businessmen. Don't kid yourself that medicine is the most important job. It might be a job where you are closest to seeing the results first hand but honestly the work a doctor does can only affect hundreds to thousands of people a year whereas the impact of a big business deal can affect millions. I'd say you are best off being happy at what you do and not try to pat yourself on the back that what you are doing is more important. It's all important and generally doctors do lose in this kind of pissing contest.

 

[flip26]

You were doing so well until you hit that last paragraph.

I know that I ring the "troll" bell more early and often than most posters, but this poster has a very short post history - I suggest you read it - and note the typos and malaprops - just take a gander at the "dangers in going to a new med school" thread at his bungled attempt to spell 'caribbean' that is not even close..."carribin?"...you have to be kidding me...

FWIW I think it is some kid who may have some actual knowledge of the physician life, possibly through his parents But his posts don't ring true for a middle aged physician. First, that he claims all the stress is in the pre-med years sounds exactly like what some pre-med or even a high schooler would write. And his comments about physicians vs businessmen in this most recent post that you have targeted sound very suspicious, if not trollish...

 

[TheRadiologist]

You were doing so well until you hit that last paragraph. Let's not kid ourselves that medicine is the only type of work that makes a real difference in people's lives though. ...

My intent was not to insult any profession. Of course we need lawyers and business men. I said "Many jobs in business can be eliminated and no one would notice the difference." Notice that I said "Many" not "all".
I apologize if the comment came across as arrogant.
The comment was based on my observations when my hospital eliminated about a third of top management and the hospital functioned as well or better than before. They could not have eliminated a third of the nurses, doctors or x-ray techs without having serious impact on patient care. I do appreciate the importance of good management for everything functioning smoothly and efficiently.

Note at edit time-Sorry abut the typos on the original.

 

[Law2Doc]

The comment was based on my observations when my hospital eliminated about a third of top management and the hospital functioned as well or better than before.

Ignorance is bliss I guess. In most cases of downsizing, a lot of things that used to occur no longer do, a lot of capacity no longer exists, and businesses find themselves ill prepared for future changes. You may have been insulated from and not appreciate the losses, and clearly have no clue what upper management does (which supports flip26's statement above, because a supposedly established practitioner should have more than a premed level's notion), but that doesn't mean they don't add value. In fact very few hospital management positions do nothing -- that might occur in Hollywood films but not in real life. There are always jobs related to acquisitions and planning, marketing, risk management, in house legal and consulting departments and the like that have a huge impact on a hospital's future but might be subject to cuts in tight economies if you wanted a short term improvement of the bottom line. In a tight economy there are "luxuries" some businesses cannot afford, but that doesn't mean they weren't productive, or that a business does not cripple itself for the future to save a bit today. If your hospital truly cut a third of management all at once I probably would get my resume in order -- this is not a signal of longterm success, and what you perceive of the hospital functioning "as well or better" is frequently the short term upturn before the crash.

 

[flip26]

My intent was not to insult any profession. Of couse we need lawers and business men. I said “Many jobs in business can be eliminated and no one would notice the difference.” Notice that I said “Many” not “all”.
I apoligize if the comment came across as arogant.
The comment was based on my observations when my hospital eliminated about a third of top management and the hospital functioned as well or better than before. They could not have eliminited a third of the nurses, doctors or x-ray techs without having serious impact on patient care. I do appreciate the imporace of good management for everything functionaing smootly and efficinetly.

Ummm...I rest my case.

 

[IveyGirl]

My intent was not to insult any profession. Of couse we need lawers and business men. I said “Many jobs in business can be eliminated and no one would notice the difference.” Notice that I said “Many” not “all”.
I apoligize if the comment came across as arogant.
The comment was based on my observations when my hospital eliminated about a third of top management and the hospital functioned as well or better than before. They could not have eliminited a third of the nurses, doctors or x-ray techs without having serious impact on patient care. I do appreciate the imporace of good management for everything functionaing smootly and efficinetly.

I'm in combined business and medical science, and I just wanted to point out something. While medicine is focused on patient care and "saving lives" at the forefront, the issue you're mentioning here is not necessarily true. Many hospitals tend to function inefficiently, with staffing and scheduling problems through the roof + patient complaints. This ineffective utilization of tax/patient dollars is usually solved by having "business people" or people with a business background solve the problem by providing advice on how to best operate the organization. Such advice may be cutting 1/3 top management employees, but it could just as likely be cutting nurses, techs, or even doctors.

I'm not saying all people in business are angels helping others save lives, but with my business background it makes it easier to see how each industry and each occupation fits into the bigger picture of the economy as a whole. I wouldn't make that statement you made without a firm understanding of how organizations function as a whole, particularly hospitals.

 

[alibai3ah]

You were doing so well until you hit that last paragraph. Let's not kid ourselves that medicine is the only type of work that makes a real difference in people's lives though. When I was a lawyer some of my physician friends used to talk like your statement above, and I was quick to point out that without the bankers and lawyers like myself doing their (non "real work") jobs the hospital they worked in simply would not exist. Nor would anyone own an MRI or CT scanner, or other major hospital equipment. Apartment buildings, shopping malls, hospitals -- these are all the product of a lot of lawyering and banking and oodles of paperwork and pitches. You can't look at it microscopically (ie a single memo) and extrapolate that the person isn't doing something macroscopically. The infrastructure of this nation only exists because of the paper pushing of lawyers and businessmen. Don't kid yourself that medicine is the most important job. It might be a job where you are closest to seeing the results first hand but honestly the work a doctor does can only affect hundreds to thousands of people a year whereas the impact of a big business deal can affect millions. I'd say you are best off being happy at what you do and not try to pat yourself on the back that what you are doing is more important. It's all important and generally doctors do lose in this kind of pissing contest.

While you have substantially more experience than I do, I kinda understand where theRadiologist is coming from. It's not that those guys don't do anything, but I feel like the outcome of their work is less tangible. On a daily basis you don't see the output of what you are putting in (like you do in medicine). Again I'm not a doctor yet (and won't be for a while) so I have no idea. But that's how I interpreted his statement. Not so much that lawyers/businessmen don't do anything, but that their work doesn't seem to have that rewarding feeling/or the obvious "I made a difference" like a doctor. Probably one of the reasons doctors are considered to be one of the most respectable professions.

 

[Law2Doc]

While you have substantially more experience than I do, I kinda understand where theRadiologist is coming from. It's not that those guys don't do anything, but I feel like the outcome of their work is less tangible. On a daily basis you don't see the output of what you are putting in (like you do in medicine). Again I'm not a doctor yet (and won't be for a while) so I have no idea. But that's how I interpreted his statement. Not so much that lawyers/businessmen don't do anything, but that their work doesn't seem to have that rewarding feeling/or the obvious "I made a difference" like a doctor. Probably one of the reasons doctors are considered to be one of the most respectable professions.

When you get to be a doctor, you will find that the public doesn't respect the profession any more than any other -- that's a premed notion. They will be just as happy being seen by an NP or a med student, and will expect you to give some sort of magic drug to cure every ailment. So you do, in fact, see a lot of doctors patting themselves on the back about how they "make a difference", because you sure don't get the kudos from the public. Ignoring the fact that for them to make a difference for hundreds, somebody in another industry puts in the same hours on deals that make a difference to millions, to get that hospital built, or get that MRI paid for. The latter fields can't point to the specific people they have helped, but they can probably point to the specific buildings and assets their work made possible. (But I wouldn't read too much into TheRadiologist's posts for the reasons flip suggested above.)

 

[aker321]

OP, I sympathize. I am also a non-trad student with a really important hobby that I would absolutely hate to abandon (along with the rest of my life) for medical school. Now that it's time to actually apply to medical school, I've been freaking out on a nearly-weekly basis that this is too big of a commitment, that I'm throwing away my twenties and my freedom, etc...

But when I shadowed for doctors working with dying people, it was really moving. Clinical volunteering sucked, let's not lie, and it did more to push me away from medicine than toward (medicine isn't just wheelchairing patients around the hospital without talking to them about their conditions!). The doctors I shadowed manage to balance full lives--families, marriages, hobbies--with clinical practice, sometimes part-time, sometimes part clinical and part non-clinical, etc.

My dad's also an MD and when I told him about my intense "second thoughts," he said that now (application season) is about the worst time to quit because it is stressful for *everyone* and it's really the darkest, most abysmal period. Like an earlier poster said, you don't know if you'll get in, where you'll be living, if you'll be able to foster a relationship, what specialty you'll practice, etc, etc, and you have to plan on working your ass off for years while taking out huge loans and never sleeping. Applying seems like a step towards doom and darkness. The truth is, you can apply and get in everywhere and NOT go. He basically told me that it's worth it to apply and take it seriously, but really evaluate schools where you have interviews and work to get a feel for the student culture there, because it will make a difference in the happiness of your years in school.

I'm still really stressed about this whole thing, but it is great to remind myself that even if I apply, even if I get in, it doesn't mean that I have to go if it still doesn't fit right in a year. I would REALLY be kicking myself October 16th if I decided not to apply and then changed my mind over the winter and had to wait another year to start. Then again...it is only a year, and perhaps this one isn't the right one, and waiting would be the right choice.

Whew. That was a lot. Best of luck, I hope you find a decision that makes you happy

 

[TheRadiologist]

I am a bad typist and should have proofread my posts before hitting the submit button, but that does not make me a troll.
I will admit that my impression of other professions may not be accurate because I am an outsider and do not have first hand experience in those other professions. My commets were made in the context of why I like my job. I respect the comments of those who have first hand experience in the other professions.
I can assure you that I am practicing physician and not a pre med or teenager. I was only trying to give my opinion based on my first hand experience to help the OP. I hope that my comments will be helpful to the OP and others in a similar position. I honestly love my job and have a lot of time for family life. This is based on first hand experience. I will admit that my situation may not be typical, but I want to let the OP know that at least some doctors are happy in the profession.

 

[Law2Doc]

...
My dad's also an MD and when I told him about my intense "second thoughts," he said that now (application season) is about the worst time to quit because it is stressful for *everyone* and it's really the darkest, most abysmal period. Like an earlier poster said, you don't know if you'll get in, where you'll be living, if you'll be able to foster a relationship, what specialty you'll practice, etc, etc, and you have to plan on working your ass off for years while taking out huge loans and never sleeping. Applying seems like a step towards doom and darkness. The truth is, you can apply and get in everywhere and NOT go. He basically told me that it's worth it to apply and take it seriously, but really evaluate schools where you have interviews and work to get a feel for the student culture there, because it will make a difference in the happiness of your years in school.

I'm still really stressed about this whole thing, but it is great to remind myself that even if I apply, even if I get in, it doesn't mean that I have to go if it still doesn't fit right in a year. I would REALLY be kicking myself October 16th if I decided not to apply and then changed my mind over the winter and had to wait another year to start. Then again...it is only a year, and perhaps this one isn't the right one, and waiting would be the right choice.

Whew. That was a lot. Best of luck, I hope you find a decision that makes you happy

From your post my read is that (1) your dad wants you to go to med school, and (2) you have some warped view of a set timetable for starting med school. Don't rush this kind of thing. If you need to spend a year, or 5 or 10 to decide if this career path is right for you, then do it. It isn't for everybody and because of high tuition and long residency paths, there really aren't as many off-ramps on the road to medicine as there might be for other fields. So you want to get this one right the first time. The biggest mistake folks make in the med school process is rushing things, out of some arbitrary concern that they will "lose a year". You don't lose the year. You age the same rate in med school or out (some would argue you're gonna feel like you age faster in med school, actually, and come out all withered, gray and sun deprived). The average age of starting med school is about 24. Lots of people are doing post-bacs or coming back to med school after some graduate school. A handful of folks come back after whole careers. So don't kid yourself into thinking you lose anything by taking the time you need. If you need a year off to figure out what you want to do with your life, that you can spend doing something that enhances your application and makes you a more interesting applicant, then by all means do so. Don't buy into the whole "apply and figure it out at a later point" logic. In fact if you apply, get in, bail, and years later decide you really wanted med school, then your having applied will seriously have damaged your chances down the road. This isn't a "just wing it" type process. You are either all in, or you should keep your chips in your pocket until you are actually sure you are ready to go all in.