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Having your PI call the dean of admissions?

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by PaperMaker, Jul 25, 2011.

  1. PaperMaker

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    Hi all just wanted to get some opinions.

    My PI has offered to call the dean of admissions and vouch for me and I was wondering how that would be perceived by the adcom.
     
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  3. macsta

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    Isn't that usually called a letter of recommendation?
     
  4. Web MD

    Web MD Doctor of the Internets
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    No, letters are written
     
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  5. It would be perceived extremely positively. 100X better than any letter. Take the opportunity and be grateful for it.
     
  6. orangeblue

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    Aren't PI's biased against clincials, since they spend their lives in research, they are more willing to vouch for someone / take person interest in someone's research career?

    Would love to hear details about your particular PI
     
  7. macsta

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    No ****. I meant a letter of rec is normally where a person would vouch for you.

    OP- It couldn't hurt. If your PI is buddy-buddy with the dean, then you are in.
     
  8. Web MD

    Web MD Doctor of the Internets
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    Congrats on your slam dunk OP
     
  9. SitraAchra

    SitraAchra Attending Anesthesiologist
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    Sarcasm?
     
  10. asrikrishnan

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    Am I the only one that thinks that this is maybe not a good idea? Maybe i'm just playing devil's advocate but I feel that whatever has been said in an LOR (I assume OP already has an LOR from PI) is enough for any kind of recommendation. Anything additional is unnecessary. But then again what do I know about admissions lol..
     
  11. IlDestriero

    IlDestriero Ether Man
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    Welcome to the old boys club my friend. This is how it's done in the real world. [pat, pat, wink]
    There are 2 caveats though. Your PI has to be a senior faculty member, and he has to have a strong personal relationship with the Dean of Admissions.
    The Adcom will have no opinion either way why the Dean has a special interest in your admission or waitlist offer.
    FYI, It would be very poor form to turn down the school if you're admitted. It makes your PI look like a fool.
     
  12. Brachyury

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    Their PI could be an MD or MD, PhD who does clinical work and research :idea:
     
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  13. crafty14

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    Yeah I tend to agree. It just seems a little desperate if he has already written a LOR (I guess the whole process is desperate, but better to not make it so obvious lol).

    I guess the only caveat might be if your PI has ties to an adcom or is an alum of the school or something like that. Also, like another poster said, I would only have him call if the school is your top choice and you would definitely go if accepted, otherwise it would make your PI (who is doing you a big favor) look pretty bad.
     
  14. sector9

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    OP's MDApps indicates that he is applying this cycle.

    The personal phone call to the dean of admissions is more of a desperation, waitlist type move IMHO. I don't think it's appropriate when no one has reviewed your app yet and is unlikely to influence much at this stage of the game
     
  15. startswithb

    startswithb Future Urologist
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    I got an interview after a call from my PI.
     
  16. nice, congrats on getting into med school
     
  17. iniquus

    iniquus game recognize game and you lookin' unfamiliar
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    Yeah you are. A letter of recommendation alone pales in comparison to someone who is willing to also take the time to call in for you, especially if they're well-networked. I've heard of this not only making a difference for medical school admissions, but residency placements.
     
  18. KLycos

    KLycos ASA Member
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    Don't do it, I want the spot that would be pretty much given to you.
     
  19. Dr Love

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    Phone Call >>> Letter
     
  20. EsseQuamVideri

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    I think you get the general idea of where the suggestions lie at this point. Welcome to the world of networking and don't forget to pay it forward (hint: send your withdrawals in early to every other school after you get into this one)
     
  21. Onres

    Onres SDN Bronze Donor
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  22. ponyo

    ponyo 人魚姫
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    Obviously I don't know too many people this has happened to, but I do know of one person who had an LOR writer speak to a dean of admissions (possibly other people on the adcom; the LOR writer was UNBELIEVABLY well-connected) and he got in, despite an astonishing lack of ECs, no research background, and a really, really sub-par MCAT score.

    Just my luck that the LOR writer in question has a personal vendetta against me and has gone out of his way to make my life miserable. That's one med school I'm definitely not wasting my money on.

    Edit: just wanted to mention that the person is now a really dedicated & competent doctor, so I guess it all worked out well.
     
  23. sha15

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    complete opposite situation for me; my PI is holding my letter ransom for publications at the moment, its not going to turn out well i'd assume
     
  24. PaperMaker

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    Wow. Thanks for the OP. I think that's a overwhelming "yes".
     
  25. Thoughtfulness

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    Is a PI a Private Investigator?
     
  26. Stumpyman

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    LORs are almost generic. A call from a well-linked person could get you in.
     
  27. LizzyM

    LizzyM the evil queen of numbers
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  28. Truzzi

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    LizzyM, what are your thoughts on this? How do you perceive phone calls?
     
  29. SisterDisco08

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    A professor I knew at a school I didn't have a chance at getting into (because they don't take oos...pretty much at all) took my app to the dean, put it on his desk, and said "you have to read this." I ended up getting an interview, that went really well, and was told that had the class not been full by the time I interviewed, I would have been their first northerner with no southeast connections ever. After it didn't end up working out, the dean called me, encouraged me to apply much earlier than last time, and did an hour long reapplication consultation with me (during which he told me the only thing he wanted me to do was spend more time in the state of the school--even on vacation), and we email back an forth every few weeks. Basically, he says I have a very good outlook for this cycle.

    Take-away: IT CAN ONLY HELP. assuming your PI doesn't throw you under a bus :p
     
  30. Whyhello

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    +1. I'd use the call strategically. I think it would be more useful in the post-interview stage than the pre-interview stage.
     
  31. CodeBlu

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    I remember a while back, Catalystik had mentioned that it could be advantageous for someone to call and vouch for you. Honestly, it could be very beneficial.

    The adcom will hear "Yeah, so and so also mentioned this to me about this applicant. I like what I see"

    All the other adcom members "Yes, I agree, ACCEPT ACCEPT ACCEPT!":luck:
     
  32. CodeBlu

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    I agree with this! Post interview.
     
  33. LizzyM

    LizzyM the evil queen of numbers
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    I'm not the one who would get the phone call and I'm not sure how often the Dean takes calls like this. There are some situations where a pre-interview call can help push you over the hump to an interview invite. I think that the other time when it could help would be in the spring when the waitlist comes into play.

    I have seen a phone call make a difference in getting an interview when the caller is well known to the dean but, curiously, the dean did not make this information available to the adcom until just before the admission decision for that candidate was set in stone (in other words, it got the applicant the interview but getting the offer of admission was up to the applicant).
     
  34. CodeBlu

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    Good to know!
     
  35. PaperMaker

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    The Dean told my PI that unfortunately he does not have the power to select interviews (state school) as it is written into the bylaws of the school. However, he said that post interview decisions for acceptance are his call. So for my school, it only works post interview for my school at least.
     
  36. vibes

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    What do you think about my PI calling a school that he is not affiliated with? It seems like many replies here say having a PI call would be really beneficial, but mainly in situations where someone's PI knows the dean of admissions. While this would obviously be better, would it still be worth it for him to call regardless?
     
  37. IlDestriero

    IlDestriero Ether Man
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    A call from a private investigator to the Dean on your behalf could definitely work in your favor as well, if you know what I mean.:eek:
    Sometimes you have to play hardball.
     
  38. medbunny56

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    is there a way to politely ask for your PI's help for admissions? or just wait till he offers :/
     
  39. FutureOncologist

    FutureOncologist I support cancer... research
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    Necrobump bro. But FWIW: asking for a LOR is something you ask for, if you think s/he will give you a positive LOR. However, I assume you're already applying. However, read above. I'd never have thought that a personal call to the dean of the SOM admissions would actually work, but either a.) SDN pulled a mob-troll-mentality on OP or b.) it's actually something helpful. If the latter, then the PI should probably have a personal connection with the dean of admissions for it to work. That's my n=1 opinion.
     
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  40. medbunny56

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    I've already gotten an LOR from him and we have a great professional relationship, he is the director of a top-ranked program at my top choice med school so i feel like he could have some connections here and there

    i'm sure he will ask me during our meetings about how my app cycle is going so maybe i can bring how i would love to continue my research next year as a med student here so he can get a hint
     
  41. idontwatchgreysanatomy

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    There is an old saying that applies to things like this: "it's about who you know and who you blow." In other words, connections are everything. Anyone who thinks medicine isn't an old boy's club is delusional.
     
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  42. Catalystik

    Catalystik Platinum
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    How many med school Deans of Admission would your PI know well enough for his voice to be recognized on the phone? "Connections" aren't the same as a "personal connection."
     
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  43. Commer_Knocker

    Commer_Knocker Don't let the bastards grind you down.
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    It could help you. Ive seen lots of people get a leg up that way.

    But I would argue that it is HIGHLY immoral. People need to get in on their own merits and not connections.

    At the end of the day, there's nothing stopping you, and a lot of other people will do it without a second thought. But we need to ask ourselves what kind of culture/system we want to propagate/fortify in our field.
     
  44. idontwatchgreysanatomy

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    Lol oh to be young and naive again...
     
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  45. Commer_Knocker

    Commer_Knocker Don't let the bastards grind you down.
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    You're right.

    Go ahead and do it, OP. Make sure you trip the blind guy on your way in too.
     
  46. Goro

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    It won't help in the least. Admissions Deans have ignored governors, senators and Nobel laureates. Some random scientist (To the Admissions dean) isn't going to add anything.
     
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  47. gyngyn

    gyngyn Professor
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    Our admissions dean is always whining about these cold calls from "august" people he doesn't know.
    The only thing that irritates him more is when they call the Dean.
     
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  48. Commer_Knocker

    Commer_Knocker Don't let the bastards grind you down.
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    I know the schools all SAY that. But then again, I've heard a lot of stories... I guess it depends on the specific dean, connection, etc.

    Sure people will tell a random Senator or doctor to pound sand. But if it's a friend, former colleague, etc, it can be different.
     
  49. Goro

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    These types of things may yield polite interviews, which are invariably followed by polite spots on the wait list, to be followed later by polite rejections.
     
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  50. Commer_Knocker

    Commer_Knocker Don't let the bastards grind you down.
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    Except in cases where the polite interview becomes a polite acceptance... This process isn't above corrupting influences, as much as we all want it to be.

    If this kind of thing doesn't happen at your shool, then it's got my respect. But that can't be said for every med school and dean in the country.
     
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  51. JustAPhD

    JustAPhD Not a hummingbird expert
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    Dont be nïeve. Networking and having people vouch for you is the best way to get your foot in the door.
     

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