Head to head: Iowa vs. Mayo

[scudrunner]

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Who do you like and why. Brief, lengthy, or other comments appreciated. Both similarly small family-oriented cities, which is what I'm looking for.

 

[scudrunner]

ANY opinions would be appreciated. Attendings, fellows, residents, and med students, I want to hear from you. I'm sure I'm not alone in this decision.

 

[BobBarker]

Iowa is one of the top two wrestling programs of all time. Of course they would win a head to head battle!

 

[imfrankie]

Show up, dominate, go home.

 

[txhorn]

You can't go wrong with either, both are solid programs. If I were ranking those two, I'd personally go with Mayo since it's an advanced program...I'd wanna spend as little time in the midwest as possible 🙂

 

[S@xplayer]

Well, I thought I should chime in....

I'm currently a CA-2 at Iowa...my thoughts...
-intern year is awesome. The dept takes great care to make sure the rotations are useful and not hour abusive. Overall hours are not bad..some easy months and some more busy ones.
-CA1-CA3 years you will have tons and tons of exposure. We are excellently trained clinically - when you leave here, you will be comfortable with every case you do. I've met my numbers already (minus some OB which I have next month) and I still have 6 months left in my CA2 year
- best part about the program are the residents themselves. Our classes all get along really well, hang out frequently, we have a great lounge. Without fellow residents with whom you will get along and have a good time with, residency will suck.
- regional is amazing here, our regional fellows come from programs where they do 10-20% of the blocks that we do, and most get to do thoracic epidurals. We get to do plenty of both. Most our graduates get around 200-250 blocks by the time they finish (if they log them at that point). Leaving here, you will be better than most practicing anesthesiologists at regional techniques.
- tons of research opportunity, not my bag of tricks, but there are plenty of projects to join in on, or to start.

-parts to improve,,,,lectures could use some touch ups. They are modifying the current CA1 lectures based on our feedback and I expect these to continue. As a resident, self study is expected, but I do feel our lectures could be better. However, our board pass rates are phenomenal, like 97-98% in the past 8 years...

- program pays well, has good benefits. Good anesthesia dept travel fund, book fund
-Iowa city is awesome. Great food, atmosphere, div 1 football and bball (yes they still aren't that good lol)
-cost of living is good.
-cold weather sucks, but mayo has to be worse lol

Feel free to pm me questions...

 

[Dejavu]

Everybody likes their own program, but I can tell you from personal experience (did the Mayo residency and now am on staff teaching the Mayo way), that you get one hell of an education in SE Minnesota.

Many cases above requirements in all catagories.

U/S blocks, regular blocks, 200-300 blocks of all kinds, at least. I am not the PD, so I don't know the exact number, I might be very low. I know that the senior "block" rotation alone gets you 200 blocks in 2 months.

Solid didactic, supported by CRNAs to get you out to attend.

Cardiac, Neuro, Peds, Pain, OB, all of it, in a very professional setting. Research opportunities, if you are so inclined.

Many, many places do much good work, so don't anybody read anything into this next and take offense, I am only going to tell the OP about one of the intangibles that make Mayo what it is.

OP, people come from all over the US and the world to let us take care of them. It is very rewarding when people place that much faith in you to travel half way across the country to get their infected hip (or heart or pancratic ca or whatever) taken care of because of our reputation. When you are about to put some one to sleep and you say, "Relax, we will take good care of you," and the pt looks up and says, "I know, that's why I came here," it doesn't put money in your pocket, but boy does it make you feel good for the rest of the day. It makes coming to work worth it, after 36 years of doing anesthesia. That sort of feedback happens everyday.

Sorry, I get carried away some times about this place.

Very user friendly staff, if I have to say so my self. Our residents are happy. Just ask them. No, seriously, they are.

And everybody disses our weather. We like it. It keeps the riff-raff out.

Anyway, Iowa has a great program. I interviewed there, years ago for a residency spot. Ended up here. Mayo has a great program. Please consider us. We always need good people.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Facts about Mayo:
-The Mayo Clinic is named after a father and his two sons, all physicians who practiced frontier medicine and developed a practice model to deliver the best care for every patient every day.
-The Mayo Clinic was "born out of a storm" after a deadly tornado ripped through the area with the Drs. Mayo leading in treating the injured and eventually staffing a permanent hospital.
-Mayo is the fifth month of the year if you live in a Spanish speaking country such as Mexico, Spain, Southern California, or Texas.
-Mayo is a primary ingredient in honey mustard.
-O.J. Mayo caused USC to vacate all 21 of their 2008 basketball wins after it was determined that he received improper gifts, thus forfeiting his amateur status.
-Used properly, mayo can be an effective treatment for lice.
-The Mayo Clinic has an outstanding anesthesiology residency program.

 

[scudrunner]

Facts about Mayo:
-The Mayo Clinic is named after a father and his two sons, all physicians who practiced frontier medicine and developed a practice model to deliver the best care for every patient every day.
-The Mayo Clinic was "born out of a storm" after a deadly tornado ripped through the area with the Drs. Mayo leading in treating the injured and eventually staffing a permanent hospital.
-Mayo is the fifth month of the year if you live in a Spanish speaking country such as Mexico, Spain, Southern California, or Texas.
-Mayo is a primary ingredient in honey mustard.
-O.J. Mayo caused USC to vacate all 21 of their 2008 basketball wins after it was determined that he received improper gifts, thus forfeiting his amateur status.
-Used properly, mayo can be an effective treatment for lice.
-The Mayo Clinic has an outstanding anesthesiology residency program.

Well, taking these facts into account, Mayo clearly has the edge.

 

[imfrankie]

Assuming the training and postgraduate opportunities are the same, Iowa City, of course, is home to a large multi-college university and is a much different flavor of city than Rochester.

 

[Dejavu]

Assuming the training and postgraduate opportunities are the same, Iowa City, of course, is home to a large multi-college university and is a much different flavor of city than Rochester.

Being a long-married old guy I kinda like it that way, but I have to agree that Rochester is rather a married couples, family-oriented, type of town.

Which is surprising given the number of nurses here. Some of whom, theoretically, must be young and single. Not that I would know anything at all about that.

 

[Laryngophed]

What are the call schedules like between the two institutions? Are there any opportunities for moonlighting? And please, elaborate on critical care experience (rotations and fellowships) if you would be so kind.

 

[S@xplayer]

What are the call schedules like between the two institutions? Are there any opportunities for moonlighting? And please, elaborate on critical care experience (rotations and fellowships) if you would be so kind.

Call at Iowa is a night float system. Curious, did you interview here? If so, there really isn't a way you wouldn't know our call schedule unless you didn't read the website or ask questions.

Anyways, call is a night float system, two weeks at a time, twice a year (total of 4 weeks). There are 24hr Sat calls for main OR and OB and 12 hour Sun calls for OB and main OR. We average a 24 hr call every two months and a 12 hour call every 6 weeks or so, because of our night float system. Call is great here.

As far as moonlighting, when I was in your position interviewing, I asked the same question everywhere. I planned on getting my independent malpractice and doing some ER shifts at community hospitals. However, as a current CA2, I look back at that idea and think "that was stupid.". My free time I have now, I have no desire to moonlight, internally or externally.

To answer your question, we have no internal anesthesia moonlighting. You are allowed to do external moonlighting provided your PD and the GME ok it and you have proof of malpractice coverage. Only a few programs have internal anesthesia moonlighting that I remember. Alabama? Maybe Oklahoma?

And the finale...critical care, maybe one of our best aspects. We do 6 months of SICU in our four years here...4 more than the requirement. We have an excellent SICU fellowship and several of our graduates stay on to do it after they graduate. You really do learn how to care for the sickest patients in the OR from critical care rotations.

Edit - wanted to add, in addition to the 6 months of SICU we also do one month each of NICU and CVICu as interns...I wasn't counting that in the 6 month total above. Also, calls for main OR are run very similarly as below; as a senior you carry the code bag for the whole hospital and you manage airways, run codes, place lines for codes. You also run the main OR desk, manage CRNAs and junior residents, help start big cases, make the next days schedule etc. I haven't done my senior calls yet but I know from my co-residents that it really does prepare you to be on your own, be it in pp or academics.

 

[B-Bone]

What are the call schedules like between the two institutions? Are there any opportunities for moonlighting? And please, elaborate on critical care experience (rotations and fellowships) if you would be so kind.

I can only speak to Mayo:

OR call schedules:
-CA1 = ~ 3x/month (one weekend/month). you work regular day in the OR on call days, but get out early, usually around 1-3 pm. start call at 5 pm, go until 7 am. the junior resident is very well protected and is usually in bed by 10 pm (about 90% of the time) and usually sleeps all night. you only get woken up if you're actually needed (rarely, given multiple CRNAs in house) or for cool learning cases (i.e. AAA, cardiac, trauma, etc). I think I worked after midnight only a handful of times as a CA1. The dept thinks of CA1 call as "protected reading time". It's pretty dope.
-CA2 = about q4 on average (1-2 weekends/month). same schedule as CA 1 (start call at 5 pm until 7 am). you are either senior resident at Methodist hospital (supervising CRNAs or junior residents doing cases, carrying code pager for airways, handling pain service) or at St Mary's hospital (pain service, code pager, responsible for outfield cases like cath lab/IR/vascular lab/etc). you are frequently up most of the night.
-CA3 = about 3x/month (one weekend/month). you only take call at SMH. you start call at 5 pm. you help finish the day cases (in a supervisory capacity). for all call cases, you run the board, decide which cases go when and where, supervise all cases (start/finish/important parts), and basically act like an attending. you do have an inhouse attending, but there involvement in your life vary quite a bit. Most will want to know about each case, and often be there for each induction. some will say "call if you need me" and you see them in the morning. This was the very best training I had for private practice. you are almost uniformly up all night doing a bongload of cases big and small. major trauma, cardiac, ruptured AAAs as well as more mundane stuff. It's scary, but you learn a ton.

Other call schedules:
-critical care junior = q3-6 depending on how many residents are on the service. the unit is a SICU for vascular/thoracic primarily with ICU beds for all the specialties except cardiac and gen surg/trauma. you are the junior resident, do all the admissions, write all the notes and orders. you do lots of airways/lines/procedures. all your attendings are anesthesiologists. you learn a ton.
-critical care senior = q3-4. One month each in SICU (see above, although you also cover critical care issues for the neuro ICU as the senior) and a mixed med/surg ICU with lots of liver transplants. You generally run the service and don't write notes/orders. When covering the med/surg ICU, you also carry the code/RRT pager as the code team leader (not the airway/procedure guy) for the hospital.
-OB - q3. there is dedicated OB service with 3 residents on it. you cover L&D only and have no main OR responsibilities. this can be slow or maddeningly busy.
-liver transplant - dedicated elective month for senior residents. you are on call 24/7 for the whole month for liver transplants. I think the record was 23 when I was there (including 5 in a row over about 60 hours). the low was 3, I think. on weekdays, you come in and supervise kidney transplants, big liver cases, and other big cases, as well as help out with lines and other procedures unless there's a liver to do. good rotation.

critical care is one month as a junior resident during CA-1 and two months as a senior resident during CA2/3. As a medicine intern at Mayo, I had 4 months of ICU (MICU, CCU, PICU, NICU). I think they do less now.
anyway, that's all I remember. I hope it's helpful.