Feb 28, 2010
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I am well aware that watching C-SPAN is at times more painful than a root canal, but considering that the bill just passed minutes ago I was curious what many of my colleagues may feel on this issue.

I will keep my opinion short........but I believe that some of the basic foundations of this country were again weakened tonight. Another entitlement functions to only kill the incentives that our citizens are granted by being promised the opportunity to work hard and reap the benefits. Our best and brightest will soon no longer consider this country to offer that promise but rather to promise mediocrity, resulting in an exodus that will ultimately result in our downfall.

Sorry for the doom and gloom but as I see the country to our south, from which my mother fled, break free from the chains that have held it back I feel that they are being placed now on us.
 
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Feb 28, 2010
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I wonder exactly how does it affect dentistry?
If you ask in regard to why I posted.......it was merely to present a thread where we could exchange our opinions. (I am interested to hear from pre-dents, dental students, and dentists)

If your question was sincere, I assume that the bill will have little effect on how we practice and treat our patients.........but I guarantee you that you will be sending the IRS a little more of your hard earned money.
 
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Feb 28, 2010
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and clearly xenophobia is the answer.
I take from your pic that this is something you "believe in"......but in my opinion it is not something this nation was built on. We are promised the right to freedoms from intrusion rather than the right to other individuals earnings.

To those that blindly follow what they believe to be something new....I hope you understand that something promised to one individual does not comes from thin air but rather from someone else. If you approve of government reaching into ones pocket and putting it into someone else's, than this bill is for you. This may be new for our country but many have run this gauntlet before and failed.
 
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FutureDent020

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Relax and let it play out. If voicing your opinion makes you feel better, then so be it. But at this point there is nothing we can do about it, so let's sit back and see what happens.
 

Simple Jack

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very sad state of affairs indeed.
makes Simple Jack want to go back to the farm
 

pogue

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Considering how much of my own dental care has been paid out of pocket I think this is a bigger problem for our friends on the MD side. However, in the long term this will have an impact on everyone- not just those in healthcare. We all have to see doctors, and we all have to pay taxes (well, some of us at least).
 
Jul 2, 2009
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I just want to know how this will have an influence on me practicing dentistry within the next 10 yrs...
 

The Anhedonia

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I take from your pic that this is something you "believe in"
that's a picture of Darwin. the joke is "very gradual change we can believe in". extrapolating my politcal beliefs based on a spoof is, well....ridiculous.


To those that blindly follow what they believe to be something new....I hope you understand that something promised to one individual does not comes from thin air but rather from someone else.
yes, please enlighten us who are blind. while your at it, let's call Glenn Beck over and teach us a little something about independent thinking ;)
 
Feb 28, 2010
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I just want to know how this will have an influence on me practicing dentistry within the next 10 yrs...
I would not worry about this bill in the realm of dentistry and practicing, although I am sure we will feel some of the effects, but more so in how we will soon be married to our government.
 

tncekm

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I would not worry about this bill in the realm of dentistry and practicing, although I am sure we will feel some of the effects, but more so in how we will soon be married to our government.
Don't be a fool. The government WILL impose itself onto dentistry. Maybe not right now, but the door is open and EVERYONE that can be considered a healthcare provider will be impacted by this precedent.
 
Feb 28, 2010
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that's a picture of Darwin. the joke is "very gradual change we can believe in". extrapolating my politcal beliefs based on a spoof is, well....ridiculous.




yes, please enlighten us who are blind. while your at it, let's call Glenn Beck over and teach us a little something about independent thinking ;)

Sorry about that....I really couldn't see what it said. I will defend the rest of my post because the opinions I express are most certainly my own and based in basic principles rather than what some fanatic preaches. History can teach us a lot and I've followed the history of governments run a muck....I just hope we don't go down that path
 

txlonghorn

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I think the bill has some positives and negatives. Like other laws, it will be modified over time to meet the needs of Americans. At least the CBO predicts that it will decrease the deficit over time. I just wished the house version of the bill was passed instead of the senate version. The house version would have increased taxes on people making more than a million and there were no pilot programs in place for dental mid level providers like in the bill that just passed.

The one big positive about this bill passing is that this topic will fade away from the news in a few weeks. God, I really got tired of those tea baggers...
 
Feb 28, 2010
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I think the bill has some positives and negatives. Like other laws, it will be modified over time to meet the needs of Americans. At least the CBO predicts that it will decrease the deficit over time.

I am going to try to no longer comment as I want everyone to just express their opinions.....but I can't get away from this one. Those proposed savings fly out the window once they implement the "doctor fix", because there is no way they will cut medicare reimbursement 22 percent. The problem with the CBO is that they score a bill however you present it to them. It is like giving them the variables and the very equation they want them to use
 
Jul 2, 2009
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Don't be a fool. The government WILL impose itself onto dentistry. Maybe not right now, but the door is open and EVERYONE that can be considered a healthcare provider will be impacted by this precedent.

****!!!! LOL:thumbdown:laugh:
 

The Anhedonia

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I am going to try to no longer comment as I want everyone to just express their opinions.....but I can't get away from this one. Those proposed savings fly out the window once they implement the "doctor fix", because there is no way they will cut medicare reimbursement 22 percent. The problem with the CBO is that they score a bill however you present it to them. It is like giving them the variables and the very equation they want them to use

dude, for this to be a productive thread (because we all know that's what SDN is for right?), you're going to have to back up your info. have you read both versions of the HCR? How do you know the intricacies of the CBO analysis process? where did you get this info?

i don't care one way or the other, but you are accusing the CBO of being bumbling idiots who don't have any insight to this complex situation. To state that the CBO (chaired by a Harvard Alum and Brooking's institute member) would "score a bill however you present it to them" is not only a gross oversimplification but an uniformed remark altogether.

i'm not accusing you of lying or anything (in fact, it could be quite true in some respects), but just saying 'this is how it is' does not make it so. :)
 

tncekm

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****!!!! LOL:thumbdown:laugh:
It's the truth, man. People like to think that "21st century humans" are sooooo much smarter than our "primitive predecessors". But, that's not true. Just more technologically advanced, which is a function of time and accumulated knowledge, NOT intelligence. But, despite our mass knowledge stores, we still manage to ignore certain important facts about history. Among those is that we have roughly 7,000 years of civilized humanity which have shown this repeated pattern:

1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage"

We're transitioning from 6 to 7. Somewhere between 6 and 8, you can be assured that DDS become another type of government employee.
 

chocchipcookie

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so now that this ridiculous bill has been passed, will dentists be better off than doctors?

trying to decide if i should pursue med school or dental school or give up both completely. and i'll be the first to admit that my main motivation is money, so don't tell me i should care more, etc. honest answers would be greatly appreciated, as i'm completely annoyed because i had my whole life planned out (undergrad, med school, residency, rolling in the big bucks, etc) and now nothing's set in stone. help please.
 
Jul 2, 2009
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so now that this ridiculous bill has been passed, will dentists be better off than doctors?

trying to decide if i should pursue med school or dental school or give up both completely. and i'll be the first to admit that my main motivation is money, so don't tell me i should care more, etc. honest answers would be greatly appreciated, as i'm completely annoyed because i had my whole life planned out (undergrad, med school, residency, rolling in the big bucks, etc) and now nothing's set in stone. help please.


I am totally with you! I love dentistry and i will still pursue it no matter what because it is the only field I feel that I will be happy in...but all I know is nobody better mess with my $$$$ lol:laugh:
 

SeattleRDH

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so now that this ridiculous bill has been passed, will dentists be better off than doctors?

trying to decide if i should pursue med school or dental school or give up both completely. and i'll be the first to admit that my main motivation is money, so don't tell me i should care more, etc. honest answers would be greatly appreciated, as i'm completely annoyed because i had my whole life planned out (undergrad, med school, residency, rolling in the big bucks, etc) and now nothing's set in stone. help please.
Specialize in a field that insurance doesn't usually cover. They'd be less likely to mess with your dreams of "rolling in the big bucks." Ideas: orthodontics, plastic surgery....

That's my honest answer. But why do you want to bother with healthcare anyway? Become an investment banker or a CEO of a company. They make alot of money and don't carry as much student loan debt as most doctors.
 

EndangeredPasta

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These threads just make me chuckle :D. I love how everyone always has these amazing insights into what is going on while at the same time providing no proof. I swear everyone must have some serious connections. With all of these amazing facts people have, might as well all switch from bio to political science.

I don't think people understand how everything just spreads like wildfire on this website. One person starts a thread "o noes...we are going to loose our moniesss...what shall I do. My daddies and mommies health insurance works perfect for me. Wait people don't have health care...since when?" Then another person believes that, then another and then another. One thread turns into two, which then turns into fifty. Fifty threads rambling on with nobody knowing what they are talking about.

Trust me, nobody knows how this is going to play out. Its going to take years to really see how it is going to work.
 
Jan 18, 2010
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That's my honest answer. But why do you want to bother with healthcare anyway? Become an investment banker or a CEO of a company. They make alot of money and don't carry as much student loan debt as most doctors.
:laugh: Yeah like those are the easiest jobs to get. I think ill go on monster and apply for one of those right now. There are so many grads of top mba schools right now either getting paid less than $60-100k or jobless. And competition is insane.
 

NonTradHopeful

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Relax and let it play out. If voicing your opinion makes you feel better, then so be it. But at this point there is nothing we can do about it, so let's sit back and see what happens.
I think this is the most reasonable comment so far. We truly do not know how it will affect dentists and dentistry. I've heard some say that it will hurt dentistry, and I've heard others say that it will benefit dentistry because it will allow those who previously had no insurance to now free up their disposable income for dental care.

Truth be told, I do not know what this health care bill means for dentists in practice, and honestly I don't think many other people on this forum can accurately predict that either.

If you want to challenge the health care bill on the merits of politics or other arguments (like whether these types of programs breed a society of dependence), then go ahead...but let's not jump to conclusions about what this means for dentistry.

...just calm down.
 

peerless218

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I think this is the most reasonable comment so far. We truly do not know how it will affect dentists and dentistry. I've heard some say that it will hurt dentistry, and I've heard others say that it will benefit dentistry because it will allow those who previously had no insurance to now free up their disposable income for dental care.

Truth be told, I do not know what this health care bill means for dentists in practice, and honestly I don't think many other people on this forum can accurately predict that either.

If you want to challenge the health care bill on the merits of politics or other arguments (like whether these types of programs breed a society of dependence), then go ahead...but let's not jump to conclusions about what this means for dentistry.

...just calm down.
We can sit here and discuss about it all we want. We just need to wait and see what happens in the next 5 years first. I do strongly believe that once they have stablized the field of medicine with the new policy, they will move onto dentistry. Just a matter of time.
 
Mar 21, 2010
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so now that this ridiculous bill has been passed, will dentists be better off than doctors?

trying to decide if i should pursue med school or dental school or give up both completely. and i'll be the first to admit that my main motivation is money, so don't tell me i should care more, etc. honest answers would be greatly appreciated, as i'm completely annoyed because i had my whole life planned out (undergrad, med school, residency, rolling in the big bucks, etc) and now nothing's set in stone. help please.
How much dentists generally make now and how much would they make 10 years from now?
 
Feb 28, 2010
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dude, for this to be a productive thread (because we all know that's what SDN is for right?), you're going to have to back up your info. have you read both versions of the HCR? How do you know the intricacies of the CBO analysis process? where did you get this info?

i don't care one way or the other, but you are accusing the CBO of being bumbling idiots who don't have any insight to this complex situation. To state that the CBO (chaired by a Harvard Alum and Brooking's institute member) would "score a bill however you present it to them" is not only a gross oversimplification but an uniformed remark altogether.

i'm not accusing you of lying or anything (in fact, it could be quite true in some respects), but just saying 'this is how it is' does not make it so. :)

I spelled it out in my comment.....the bill includes a 22% cut to doctor's fess in regards to medicare. Our adored speaker of the house has already proposed that this measure will be removed once the bill is made law by a "doctor fix". Therefore those proposed savings that the CBO calculated based on that cut are now gone. It was a scoring gimmick which covered more than their proposed 140 billion in savings. Do I even have to mention that taxes and regulations kick in instantly but benefits do not for 4 years......that is definitely fiscally sound:confused:. Let me also point out that there will be about 50 billion in proposed savings that is just deficit shifting rather than actual savings. They are going to tax social security, a payment that many individuals will be receiving in lieu of health care benefits. It is like they are borrowing money from themselves because they will just have to pay out more later.

You can trust the CBO in how they score a bill......just recognize that what they are scoring has already been shaped for them to score. Also I am not writing a research paper and am most definitely not going to cite my sources. If you feel the need to question the truth of my comments feel free, and actually encouraged, to search for yourself and prove me wrong.
 
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yuppers

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If this reform is so great then why did congress refuse this new healthcare plan that they will now force (literally...either by taxes or fines) on the rest of us Americans?

How will this bill be sustainable in the long term if it takes 10 years of increased taxes and fines to get 6 years of benefits?
 

The Anhedonia

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I spelled it out in my comment.....the bill includes a 22% cut to doctor's fess in regards to medicare. Our adored speaker of the house has already proposed that this measure will be removed once the bill is made law by a "doctor fix". Therefore those proposed savings that the CBO calculated based on that cut are now gone. It was a scoring gimmick which covered more than their proposed 140 billion in savings. Do I even have to mention that taxes and regulations kick in instantly but benefits do not for 4 years......that is definitely fiscally sound:confused:. Let me also point out that there will be about 50 billion in proposed savings that is just deficit shifting rather than actual savings. They are going to tax social security, a payment that many individuals will be receiving in lieu of health care benefits. It is like they are borrowing money from themselves because they will just have to pay out more later.
actually the tax revenue is coming from other places (not SS):
Under current law, workers who earn a salary pay a flat tax of 1.45 percent of their wages to support the Medicare Hospital Insurance (HI) trust fund, but those who have substantial unearned income do not, raising issues of fairness. The Act will include an additional 0.9 percentage point Hospital Insurance tax for households with incomes exceeding $200,000 for singles and $250,000 for married couples filing jointly. In addition, it would add a 2.9 percent tax for such high-income households to unearned income including interest, dividends, annuities, royalties and rents (excluding income from active participation in S corporations).
<http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-care-meeting/proposal/titleix/targeted-healthcare-tax>

Health Industry Fees
The Act will impose fees on various sectors of the health industry, intended to recapture some of the benefits they get as more Americans purchase health insurance. These include: (i) a fee on branded prescription drug pharmaceutical companies in proportion to their federal sales; (ii) an excise tax on medical devices; (iii) an annual fee on health insurance companies; and (iv) an excise tax on indoor tanning services.

<http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-care-meeting/proposal/titleix/health-industry-fees>

Improved Enforcement and Closing Tax Loopholes
The Act will improve enforcement and close loopholes in the tax code. These measures include: (i) expanding corporate information reporting requirements; (ii) closing the loophole that allows certain byproducts of paper production to be eligible for the cellulosic biofuels producer credit; and (iii) helping prevent tax shelters by clarifying the definition of when activities have true “economic substance” beyond evading taxes.

<http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-care-meeting/proposal/titleix/tax-loopholes>

Also I am not writing a research paper and am most definitely not going to cite my sources.
then i will most definitely not give credit to what you say :cool:
 

punkin85

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I understand this bill isn't perfect but I'm also guessing everyone on here has insurance through their parents, employer, or school (or can afford a personal plan).

I come from a family that over 50% don't have insurance right now and are struggling to find jobs or any work at all. My 55 year old uncle who once had a booming business now works part time at a fast food restaurant, has no insurance, and is currently going blind from a cataract that he cannot afford to get removed.

We do have to consider that for those less fortunate this is an amazing day of opportunity. Yes, it will change things drastically-but in the end those of us with insurance will still have insurance and those of us who don't...will. Doctors will be seeing a lot more patients now that they have the option to see a doctor.

I respect everyone's opinion and agree we must let it play out before we decide the entire country is doomed. Seriously.
 
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You guys are crazy and just propagating fear... Let me guess, republicans? Honestly, it makes me happy to see republicans angry because it means something proper is taking place.

First of all, something had to be done and hopefully you all do see that? The status quo is bankrupting both the country and hospitals. These attempts to fix insurance have been attempted for over 40 years and they were even attempted by your precious Reagan (if you're old enough to remember him). Policy change can only happen in select windows of opportunity and we just witnessed one that nearly shut. If it didn't pass now, who could say when it would. If you agree with my first premise, that healthcare right now is unsustainable, then you should be happy that something different finally passed because there was no other viable option presented.

Now, yes, the bill isn't perfect and IMHO, doesn't do enough. Insurance should not be run for profit but so be it. There was waaay too much fear mongering put forth on the ills of socialized medicine which I thought was a great hypocrisy but whatever... that's a different argument.

As for the fear that the government will attempt to fix healthcare for dentistry, this should be a moot point and you should probably calm down especially since you're trying to predict the future. Right now, most comprehensive dentistry is elective, meaning, people pay out of pocket for it. If you do not already know, dental insurance is crap and only pays for a limited amount of 'necessary' procedures in a year. Especially when you consider cosmetic dentistry, insurance currently isn't a factor in your paycheck.

Lastly, yes, we are all working extremely hard to get to where we'd like to be and the incentive of high earning potential is a major driving force for many of us. Luck has also been running high in our favor. Unless you want to inject divine will into this conversation, you should realize just how lucky you are. I mean, really think about it. Everything about who you are is premised on luck, all the way down to the genes you happened to receive. There is a good deal of hard work that got us to applying to dental school but there is also a ton of luck that will lead us to the top 5% of income earners in America and for more of a contrast, better off than 99.99% of the rest of the world.

So boohoo and so what if we pay a bit more in taxes? If I net $750K and pay 40% in tax, I still have $450K of discretionary money. On the flipside, if you make $33,950 and pay 15%, you net $28,858. Who would you rather be? Of course, taxation isn't fun but if those taxes are being used to prevent insurance companies from denying someone care for breast cancer after digging through their medical history to find something trivial to base a rejection off of, I say go for it and I'd hope you would too.
 

sarah_bellum

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STATEMENT OF SANDRA C. ANDRIEU, M.Ed., Ph.D.
President
American Dental Education Association
On the Passage of Health Care Reform Legislation

March 21, 2010

Two years ago, the American Dental Education Association (ADEA) entered the national debate on reforming the U.S. health care system. The cornerstone of ADEA‘s position, as approved by the ADEA House of Delegates in March 2009, was that any comprehensive health care reform proposal should provide universal coverage to all Americans and access to high-quality, cost effective oral health care services.

Tonight, the House of Representatives approved health care reform legislation (H.R. 3590 and H.R. 4872) that will affect significant and positive change in our health care system and shatter the status quo. It is not a perfect response to ADEA’s advocacy. It is, unquestionably, a critical step in the right direction. The legislation extends coverage to nearly all U.S. citizens, includes important provisions related to improving their oral health, addresses key issues of importance to academic dental institutions, and is entirely compatible with the Guiding Principles for Health Care Reform adopted by ADEA’s House of Delegates.

In our judgment, the benefits that our fellow citizens will accrue from this legislation certainly outweigh its imperfections. The age-old admonition not to allow the good to be the enemy of the perfect holds especially true today. The American Dental Education Association, therefore, is pleased with the outcome of the lengthy congressional debate. We applaud the efforts of the House of Representatives and the Obama Administration in passing this historic legislation. The U.S. Senate should quickly pass the reconciliation bill, H.R. 4872, to conclude the health care reform legislative process.

Containing significant provisions for which ADEA has been advocating, the health care reform legislation approved today by the House of Representatives will:

• Require insurance plans to include pediatric oral health services for children up to 21 years of age

• Require essential health benefits package to include: ambulatory patient services; emergency services; hospitalization; maternity and newborn care; mental health and substance use disorders; prescription drugs; rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices; laboratory services; prevention and wellness services and chronic disease management; pediatric services, including oral and vision care

• Expand Medicaid eligibility for adults and children

• Increase federal support to states to pay for expanded Medicaid coverage

• Extend the Children Health Insurance Program for five years

• Establish an oral health prevention program and fund states to develop oral health leadership

• Enhance oral health data systems

• Improve the delivery of oral health

• Implement dental sealants, water fluoridation and preventive programs

• Establish a five-year national, public education campaign focused on oral health care prevention and education and targeted to certain populations, including children, the elderly, and pregnant women

• Award demonstration grants in consultation with professional oral health organizations to eligible entities to demonstrate the effectiveness of research-based dental caries disease management activities

• Authorize the Medicaid and CHIP Payment and Access Commission (MACPAC) to review payments for dental services in Medicaid and CHIP

• Establish a process for updating payments to dental health professionals

• Reaffirm that dentists will be members of the Commission

• Establish a separate dental section and funding line of $30 million for training in general, pediatric, and public health dentistry

• Increase eligibility for new grant programs in the Title VII Health Professions Programs to train dental and allied dental health professionals

• Make dental schools eligible for federal grants for pre-doctoral training, faculty development, dental faculty loan repayment, and academic administrative units, grants currently available only to medical schools

• Modify current law to allow hospitals to count dental and medical resident time spent in didactic (scholarly) activities toward Indirect Medical Education (IME) costs in hospital settings and toward Direct Graduate Medical Education (D-GME) in non-hospital settings (dental school clinics)

• Extend the National Health Service Corps (NHSC) and increase funding for its scholarship and loan repayment program by $2.7 billion over five years
• Reauthorize the Indian Health Service (HIS) and allow for the election by Indian tribes and tribal organizations in a State to employ dental health aide therapists when authorized under State law

• Authorize grants to establish training programs for alternative dental health care providers to increase access to dental health care services in rural, tribal, and underserved communities

• Reauthorize the Centers of Excellence (COE) program which develops a minority applicant pool to enhance recruitment, training, academic performance and other support for minorities interested in careers in health and fund it at $50 million

• Increase funding from $37 million to $51 million over five years for Health Professions Training for Diversity which provides scholarships for disadvantaged students who commit to work in medically underserved areas as primary care providers, and expands loan repayments for individuals who will serve as faculty in eligible institutions

• Exempt dental coverage from the premium amounts subject to excise tax on high cost insurance plans

For two years, the American Dental Education Association has raised its voice in the halls of Congress and at the White House in support of systemic health care reform that includes essential oral health benefits for all Americans. The reform that has been set into motion today is, ADEA believes, the beginning of creating such a system and fulfilling our vision.
 

sarah_bellum

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• Modify current law to allow hospitals to count dental and medical resident time spent in didactic (scholarly) activities toward Indirect Medical Education (IME) costs in hospital settings and toward Direct Graduate Medical Education (D-GME) in non-hospital settings (dental school clinics)
Does this mean dental school specialty training programs will suddenly qualify for GME funding?
 

The Anhedonia

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In case you all were interested exactly how dentistry is incorporated into the new HCR:

&#8216;&#8216;SEC. 749. TRAINING FOR GENERAL, PEDIATRIC, AND PUB6
LIC HEALTH DENTISTS AND DENTAL HYGIEN7
ISTS.
8 &#8216;&#8216;(a) PROGRAM.&#8212;The Secretary shall establish a
9 training program for oral health professionals consisting
10 of awarding grants and contracts under this section.
11 &#8216;&#8216;(b) SUPPORT AND DEVELOPMENT OF ORAL
12 HEALTH TRAINING PROGRAMS.&#8212;The Secretary shall
13 make grants to, or enter into contracts with, eligible enti14
ties&#8212;
15 &#8216;&#8216;(1) to plan, develop, operate, or participate in
16 an accredited professional training program for oral
17 health professionals;
18 &#8216;&#8216;(2) to provide financial assistance to oral
19 health professionals who are in need thereof, who
20 are participants in any such program, and who plan
21 to work in general, pediatric, or public health den22
tistry, or dental hygiene;
23 &#8216;&#8216;(3) to plan, develop, operate, or participate in
24 a program for the training of oral health profes-

1242
•HR 3962 IH
1 sionals who plan to teach in general, pediatric, or
2 public health dentistry, or dental hygiene;
3 &#8216;&#8216;(4) to provide financial assistance in the form
4 of traineeships and fellowships to oral health profes5
sionals who plan to teach in general, pediatric, or
6 public health dentistry or dental hygiene;
7 &#8216;&#8216;(5) to establish, maintain, or improve&#8212;
8 &#8216;&#8216;(A) academic administrative units (in9
cluding departments, divisions, or other appro10
priate units) in the specialties of general, pedi11
atric, or public health dentistry; or
12 &#8216;&#8216;(B) programs that improve clinical teach13
ing in such specialties;
14 &#8216;&#8216;(6) to plan, develop, operate, or participate in
15 predoctoral and postdoctoral training in general, pe16
diatric, or public health dentistry programs;
17 &#8216;&#8216;(7) to plan, develop, operate, or participate in
18 a loan repayment program for full-time faculty in a
19 program of general, pediatric, or public health den20
tistry; and
21 &#8216;&#8216;(8) to provide technical assistance to pediatric
22 dental training programs in developing and imple23
menting instruction regarding the oral health status,
24 dental care needs, and risk-based clinical disease

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•HR 3962 IH
1 management of all pediatric populations with an em2
phasis on underserved children.
3 &#8216;&#8216;(c) ELIGIBILITY.&#8212;To be eligible for a grant or con4
tract under this section, an entity shall be&#8212;
5 &#8216;&#8216;(1) an accredited school of dentistry, training
6 program in dental hygiene, or public or nonprofit
7 private hospital;
8 &#8216;&#8216;(2) a training program in dental hygiene at an
9 accredited institution of higher education;
10 &#8216;&#8216;(3) a public or private nonprofit entity; or
11 &#8216;&#8216;(4) a consortium of&#8212;
12 &#8216;&#8216;(A) 1 or more of the entities described in
13 paragraphs (1) through (3); and
14 &#8216;&#8216;(B) an accredited school of public health.
15 &#8216;&#8216;(d) PREFERENCE.&#8212;In awarding grants or contracts
16 under this section, the Secretary shall give preference to
17 entities that have a demonstrated record of at least one
18 of the following:
19 &#8216;&#8216;(1) Training a high or significantly improved
20 percentage of oral health professionals who practice
21 general, pediatric, or public health dentistry.
22 &#8216;&#8216;(2) Training individuals who are from dis23
advantaged backgrounds (including racial and ethnic
24 minorities underrepresented among oral health pro25
fessionals).

•HR 3962 IH
1 &#8216;&#8216;(3) A high rate of placing graduates in prac2
tice settings having the principal focus of serving in
3 underserved areas or populations experiencing health
4 disparities (including serving patients eligible for
5 medical assistance under title XIX of the Social Se6
curity Act or for child health assistance under title
7 XXI of such Act or those with special health care
8 needs).
9 &#8216;&#8216;(4) Supporting teaching programs that ad10
dress the oral health needs of vulnerable popu11
lations.
12 &#8216;&#8216;(5) Providing instruction regarding the oral
13 health status, oral health care needs, and risk-based
14 clinical disease management of all pediatric popu15
lations with an emphasis on underserved children.
16 &#8216;&#8216;(e) REPORT.&#8212;The Secretary shall submit to the
17 Congress an annual report on the program carried out
18 under this section.
19 &#8216;&#8216;(f) DEFINITIONS.&#8212;In this section:
20 &#8216;&#8216;(1) The term &#8216;health disparities' has the
21 meaning given the term in section 3171.
22 &#8216;&#8216;(2) The term &#8216;oral health professional' means
23 an individual training or practicing&#8212;


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•HR 3962 IH
1 &#8216;&#8216;(A) in general dentistry, pediatric den2
tistry, public health dentistry, or dental hy3
giene; or
4 &#8216;&#8216;(B) another oral health specialty, as
5 deemed appropriate by the Secretary.''.
6 SEC. 2216. AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS.
7 (a) IN GENERAL.&#8212;Part F of title VII (42 U.S.C.
8 295j et seq.) is amended by adding at the end the fol9
lowing:
10 &#8216;&#8216;SEC. 799C. FUNDING THROUGH PUBLIC HEALTH INVEST11
MENT FUND.
12 &#8216;&#8216;(a) PROMOTION OF PRIMARY CARE AND DEN13
TISTRY.&#8212;For the purpose of carrying out subpart XI of
14 part D of title III and sections 747, 748, and 749, in addi15
tion to any other amounts authorized to be appropriated
16 for such purpose, there are authorized to be appropriated,
17 out of any monies in the Public Health Investment Fund,
18 the following:
19 &#8216;&#8216;(1) $240,000,000 for fiscal year 2011.
20 &#8216;&#8216;(2) $253,000,000 for fiscal year 2012.
21 &#8216;&#8216;(3) $265,000,000 for fiscal year 2013.
22 &#8216;&#8216;(4) $278,000,000 for fiscal year 2014.
23 &#8216;&#8216;(5) $292,000,000 for fiscal year 2015.''.
24 (b) EXISTING AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIA25
TIONS.&#8212;Subsection (g)(1), as so redesignated, of section

1246
•HR 3962 IH
1 747 (42 U.S.C. 293k) is amended by striking &#8216;&#8216;2002'' and
2 inserting &#8216;&#8216;2015''.
3 SEC. 2217. STUDY ON EFFECTIVENESS OF SCHOLARSHIPS
4 AND LOAN REPAYMENTS.
5 (a) STUDY.&#8212;The Comptroller General of the United
6 States shall conduct a study to determine the effectiveness
7 of scholarship and loan repayment programs under sub8
parts III and XI of part D of title III of the Public Health
9 Service Act, as amended or added by sections 2201 and
10 2211, including whether scholarships or loan repayments
11 are more effective in&#8212;
12 (1) incentivizing physicians, and other pro13
viders, to pursue careers in primary care specialties;
14 (2) retaining such primary care providers; and
15 (3) encouraging such primary care providers to
16 practice in underserved areas.
17 (b) REPORT.&#8212;Not later than 12 months after the
18 date of the enactment of this Act, the Comptroller General
19 shall submit to the Congress a report on the results of
20 the study under subsection (a).
 

redchesus

10+ Year Member
Oct 13, 2007
472
3
241
Status
Dentist
This bill isn't as big as everyone thinks. It's just an expansion of Medicaid, which we all know is broke and is going to have to get further reformed down the road anyway (it's "historic" 'cause it's a step). It's not going to cost that much... comparatively... there's always going to be money, ALWAYS, proper allocation will take care of that ($94 billion/yr versus $685 billion/yr for the Dept of Defense?! uhh...)

Look at what's in the bill... the people that will be negatively affected are the top income brackets (whatever, it's still chump change for them...) and young healthy people who don't want any insurance at all (bad idea in general)

the people who will be positively affected are poor people (particularly childless adults who didn't qualify for Medicaid), people with pre-existing conditions, and the insurance companies *groan*

health care providers will be either positively or negatively depending on how they view themselves - a practitioner or a rich person

I'm actually most concerned with the 10% tanning tax... WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO SNOOKI AND THE REST OF THE JERSEY SHORE?!!
 

yuppers

10+ Year Member
Feb 5, 2009
1,358
4
0
Status
Pre-Dental
The ADA doesn't support the bill stating that....
"Unfortunately, the value of the good provisions in the bill is outweighed by a crucial missing component, a commitment to improve the oral health for those citizens at the lowest end of the economic ladder."
and
"Failure to properly fund Medicaid is the primary reason for the ADA's decision not to support this legislation. However, the bill contains a number of other provisions that we have consistently opposed, including provisions to allow workforce pilot programs that may lead to non-dentists performing surgical dental procedures. Funding for these provisions would be better spent on increasing funding for Medicaid dental services.

http://www.ada.org/prof/resources/pubs/adanews/adanewsarticle.asp?articleid=3957

This means that the new healthcare reform bill results in a lack of medicaid funding and the opening of doors for mid-level providers.
 

punkin85

10+ Year Member
Jan 30, 2009
250
0
41
Status
Dental Student
You guys are crazy and just propagating fear... Let me guess, republicans? Honestly, it makes me happy to see republicans angry because it means something proper is taking place.

First of all, something had to be done and hopefully you all do see that? The status quo is bankrupting both the country and hospitals. These attempts to fix insurance have been attempted for over 40 years and they were even attempted by your precious Reagan (if you're old enough to remember him). Policy change can only happen in select windows of opportunity and we just witnessed one that nearly shut. If it didn't pass now, who could say when it would. If you agree with my first premise, that healthcare right now is unsustainable, then you should be happy that something different finally passed because there was no other viable option presented.

Now, yes, the bill isn't perfect and IMHO, doesn't do enough. Insurance should not be run for profit but so be it. There was waaay too much fear mongering put forth on the ills of socialized medicine which I thought was a great hypocrisy but whatever... that's a different argument.

As for the fear that the government will attempt to fix healthcare for dentistry, this should be a moot point and you should probably calm down especially since you're trying to predict the future. Right now, most comprehensive dentistry is elective, meaning, people pay out of pocket for it. If you do not already know, dental insurance is crap and only pays for a limited amount of 'necessary' procedures in a year. Especially when you consider cosmetic dentistry, insurance currently isn't a factor in your paycheck.

Lastly, yes, we are all working extremely hard to get to where we'd like to be and the incentive of high earning potential is a major driving force for many of us. Luck has also been running high in our favor. Unless you want to inject divine will into this conversation, you should realize just how lucky you are. I mean, really think about it. Everything about who you are is premised on luck, all the way down to the genes you happened to receive. There is a good deal of hard work that got us to applying to dental school but there is also a ton of luck that will lead us to the top 5% of income earners in America and for more of a contrast, better off than 99.99% of the rest of the world.

So boohoo and so what if we pay a bit more in taxes? If I net $750K and pay 40% in tax, I still have $450K of discretionary money. On the flipside, if you make $33,950 and pay 15%, you net $28,858. Who would you rather be? Of course, taxation isn't fun but if those taxes are being used to prevent insurance companies from denying someone care for breast cancer after digging through their medical history to find something trivial to base a rejection off of, I say go for it and I'd hope you would too.
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 

punkin85

10+ Year Member
Jan 30, 2009
250
0
41
Status
Dental Student
The ADA doesn't support the bill stating that....
"Unfortunately, the value of the good provisions in the bill is outweighed by a crucial missing component, a commitment to improve the oral health for those citizens at the lowest end of the economic ladder."
and
"Failure to properly fund Medicaid is the primary reason for the ADA's decision not to support this legislation. However, the bill contains a number of other provisions that we have consistently opposed, including provisions to allow workforce pilot programs that may lead to non-dentists performing surgical dental procedures. Funding for these provisions would be better spent on increasing funding for Medicaid dental services.

http://www.ada.org/prof/resources/pubs/adanews/adanewsarticle.asp?articleid=3957

This means that the new healthcare reform bill results in a lack of medicaid funding and the opening of doors for mid-levels provider.

I don't like the idea of the MLP but I would not be surprised if, in 10-15 years, they are a driving force in everyday dentists' practices (especially those who run their practice as multi-million $ businesses). Hire some MLPs, see 5x as many patients...make 5x as much $$.

NOT THAT I AGREE WITH IT
 

yuppers

10+ Year Member
Feb 5, 2009
1,358
4
0
Status
Pre-Dental
So boohoo and so what if we pay a bit more in taxes? If I net $750K and pay 40% in tax, I still have $450K of discretionary money.
750k .... where are you getting these numbers? :laugh:

Try paying for a mortgage, car payments, insurances, 250+ k of students loans, etc with the 90-120k (before taxes) that you will make on average in your first few years as a dentist.
 
Aug 30, 2009
61
0
0
Status
Pre-Dental
Well hey if you're only making 90-120K a year you won't have to pay those extra taxes you're so worried about. The threshold is $250k and investment income of $200k+. And who says you're meant to buy a house, a brand new car and a practice directly leaving dental school? That sounds like you're trying to bite off more than you can chew if you're only going to be making $90K-$120K but hey isn't that just arguing the status quo? And aren't you forgetting that if you are capable of making this endeavor that you are EXTREMELY BLESSED? For f's sakes, most people would die to live that sort of lifestyle. Additionally, I'm getting numbers from my father's practice. They're estimates.
 

FutureDent020

Senior Member
7+ Year Member
Jun 3, 2009
1,517
29
161
Status
Dentist
Why don't we all worry about getting our degrees first before we get caught up in how the bill will affect a career we are years of hard work away from.
 

punkin85

10+ Year Member
Jan 30, 2009
250
0
41
Status
Dental Student
Well hey if you're only making 90-120K a year you won't have to pay those extra taxes you're so worried about. The threshold is $250k and investment income of $200k+. And who says you're meant to buy a house, a brand new car and a practice directly leaving dental school? That sounds like you're trying to bite off more than you can chew if you're only going to be making $90K-$120K but hey isn't that just arguing the status quo? And aren't you forgetting that if you are capable of making this endeavor that you are EXTREMELY BLESSED? For f's sakes, most people would die to live that sort of lifestyle. Additionally, I'm getting numbers from my father's practice. They're estimates.
:thumbup:

The perio I worked for was 2 years out of school, not making much $$ at all but had 3 kids, a RIDICULOUS house, and a brand new mercedes. IMO-these are things you earn after making $$, not just by graduating school.

And now he's in financial trouble. I wonder why.

(EDIT: you don't earn the kids...I just meant he has to worry about $ for them too!)
 
Last edited:
Sep 30, 2009
93
0
41
Status
Dental Student
Anybody expecting a surge in D-school applicants now that the future of medicine is uncertain?
 

DMD Trumps MD

5+ Year Member
Mar 2, 2010
30
0
91
Status
Pre-Dental
so now that this ridiculous bill has been passed, will dentists be better off than doctors?

trying to decide if i should pursue med school or dental school or give up both completely. and i'll be the first to admit that my main motivation is money, so don't tell me i should care more, etc. honest answers would be greatly appreciated, as i'm completely annoyed because i had my whole life planned out (undergrad, med school, residency, rolling in the big bucks, etc) and now nothing's set in stone. help please.
oh how I can't wait to take this girl's residency seat :cool:
 
Feb 28, 2010
68
0
0
Status
Pre-Dental
to darwin and others....the problem is that we have a fundamental difference in opinion. this bill along with the other measures that i am sure this administration is going to propose, attacks the individuals who "god forbid" makes money. even the CBO acknowledges that this will will raise premiums for those who make over 88K and lower it for those who make less since theirs will be subsidized.

I myself don't have health insurance and I don't expect some rich person to pay for it......I will buy it when i can afford it.

it is a slippery slope and you wonder where one draws the line of how much our upper class has to carry on their backs.
 
Last edited:
Dec 5, 2009
140
1
0
Status
Dental Student
I myself don't have health insurance and I don't expect some rich person to pay for it......I will buy it when i can afford it.
You see, this is what we need, more independent people that decide when NOT to have health care! Then the system would be fixed and we wouldn't be having this debate.

But that's cool. Let's say you are walking to school with the cross sign and some driver hits you with their car. You are thrown onto the road with a split skull. Bystanders call 911, you are rushed to the hospital, and receive care. When you wake up 2 days later, you are hit with a 22K+ hospital bill. The driver's insurance may pay for a bit, but they won't pay for the "optional" ambulance ride to the hospital. Out of pocket, you have to pay 12K. What do you do? Not pay it? Thank you for contributing to the system. Pay with your student loans and 8 dollar and hour job?

Better yet, let's say you wake up tomorrow and notice a huge bruise on your hip. Diagnosis: leukemia. What now?

Please understand that this bill is NOT a personal attack on YOU! God did not put Barack Obama on this Earth to haunt you for everyday of your life. I am not saying I am in support or against this bill; at the end of the day, its just trying to help those Americans who cannot get to health care.
 
Last edited:

Blarelli

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Mar 10, 2007
608
1
141
Status
Dentist
http://www.atr.org/breaking-comprehensive-list-taxesbr-house-democrat-a4113

Surtax on Individuals and Small Businesses (Page 336): Imposes an income surtax of 5.4 percent on MAGI over $500,000 ($1 million married filing jointly). MAGI adds back in the itemized deduction for margin loan interest. This would raise the top marginal tax rate in 2011 from 39.6 percent under current law to 45 percent—a new effective top rate.

I'm not an accountant, but it seems like this would affect a dental practice. Maybe not though.
 

iwantobeadent

Removed
Mar 14, 2010
13
0
0
Status
Pre-Dental
David nobody cares wut u think! You dont have any idea wut u are talkin about!!! Let me guess...u must be the type of liberal who likes pelosi lol!


well hey if you're only making 90-120k a year you won't have to pay those extra taxes you're so worried about. The threshold is $250k and investment income of $200k+. And who says you're meant to buy a house, a brand new car and a practice directly leaving dental school? That sounds like you're trying to bite off more than you can chew if you're only going to be making $90k-$120k but hey isn't that just arguing the status quo? And aren't you forgetting that if you are capable of making this endeavor that you are extremely blessed? For f's sakes, most people would die to live that sort of lifestyle. Additionally, i'm getting numbers from my father's practice. They're estimates.