Health Care Law Stands

[StevePerry]

Actually, the only thing you can really get out of Europe right now is that the entire concept of having a single currency for several states who have the independent ability to issue bonds is one of the dumbest ideas in the history of international macroeconomics.

Some of those "socialist" states (I must have missed the news article where all of Europe seized the means of all production and became Marxist utopias) like Iceland, all of Scandanavia, and Canada are doing just honky-dory with their rational, mixed economies and socialized healthcare systems.

The states who can't seem to understand how idiotic of an idea the Euro was and don't want to deal with the pain of correcting for it are the ones that will suffer. (This goes for those in the Eurozone that are "Greeks" and "Germans"...idiots, both of them...)

The Euro bought Germany around 10 more years of attractive exports... and you gotta remember though not everything worked out that well for the Eurozone (all attempts at seriously establishing the PetroEuro over the PetroDollar got shut down ).

As for socialism I was using it with a lowercase "s" as in more the connotation of lacking austerity... those countries you list may do alright economically, but I would hardly tout a system like the Canadian Healthcare system as the model of excellence or anything the US should seek to emulate -- I highly doubt the "money" in their country would have ever supported it without the reassurance that a high quality safety valve system like the US existed where paying patients don't die while waiting in line for access to specialties.

BTW, you still shorting the Euro to parity?

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[PharmDstudent]

Yeah dude. I'm just WANTING to see a Medicaid recipient drive away in a Lexus... then over to the nail salon that they own down the street. I'm sure I just don't know their story though and that somehow their designer handbags were gifts from relatives.

Anyone who spends that much time at a nail salon needs Medicaid. Lung cancer is expensive!

Oh, and anyone who doesn't think that we already have socialized health care is living under a rock. It's called M-E-D-I-C-A-I-D and M-E-D-I-C-A-R-E.

 

[Its Z]

The Euro bought Germany around 10 more years of attractive exports... and you gotta remember though not everything worked out that well for the Eurozone (all attempts at seriously establishing the PetroEuro over the PetroDollar got shut down ).

Topic dear to my heart. It all started with Saddam and his Oil for Food program selling oil for Euros in the late 90's. Wow... direct challenge against the Dollar Hegemony. It got Saddam hung.. a clear message to the rest of the OPEC leaders to not mess with the Petro-Dollar.

That's what Iraq war was about...not the WMD. We all know that.

Imagine the world littered with Petro-Euro..Petro-Yuan... Petro-Won... Petro-Rubles.. Petro-Yen.. the world where the almighty dollar is worth less than the paper it's printed on.

In essence, Bush/Cheney duo protected Petro-Dollar.

Actually, I thank them for it. We got to preserve and somewhat maintain our American way of life.. which should be the foremost priority of the office of the US president.

I'm surprised you speak of Petro-dollar and euros, Steve Perry. I though all you ever did was belt out "Open Arms" and "Faithfully.." and "Loving, touching...and squeezing."

 

[pinipig523]

I agree, tobacco should be completely banned but you really lose me (and most rational people) when you start talking about welfare queens in escalades. And who's to say those are still not legitimate users of public assistance? You don't know their story, you just see what you want to

Of course fraud happens but you should really look at shady doctors, not the end user. For every 1 end user committing fraud there are 10 doctors billing inappropriately and this is the real source of the majority of insurance/gov't assistance fraud.

I work at a county hospital and I see things that should not be happening. And my wife works for walgreens. It is a well known fact that there is an owner of a auto dealership (big one with commercials on tv) who is on public aid... along with many others. Just the tip of the ice berg.

My favorite patient encounters are those who come in the Er with brand new jeans with tags on and they're in heart failure exacerbation because they couldn't afford the copay on their lasix and htn meds - $3 at the County. Or when the patient in the ER notices a resident's Nike shoes and says "I'm going to buy those tomorrow when you guys send me home..." but then comes back in 2 hours post-discharge.

Patient: "Hey doc, I can't afford the scripts... I don't have $3. Can you give me a voucher for free prescription drugs?"
Me: "Weren't you the guy who said you were going to buy pair of $100 sneakers once you left the ER?"
Patient: "Yeah but doc, I won't have money after I buy those shoes."
Me: "???"

Regarding your allegation that quite a few docs commit fraud - that's a pretty heavy statement. I'd like you find me data on 10 docs per 1 end user abuse. In our ER, we don't overbill for anything because we are taught by our attendings and chairman NOT to and I can vouch for the 70 or so docs in our program. On the other hand - I can point you to at least 1-2 patients per shift of mine that abuse the system. Multiply that by 50 residents and 240 shifts a year and you have 12,000 to 24,000 separate encounters of public aid fraud or abuse per year. And we still have 70 docs who bill appropriately.

I need you to show me data that 120,000-240,000 doctors commit fraud and abuse for those number of patients I just quoted you.

 

[MountainPharmD]

I need you to show me data that 120,000-240,000 doctors commit fraud and abuse for those number of patients I just quoted you.

Anecdotal evidence doesn't trump anecdotal evidence. You can claim hundreds are abusing the system in the end you do not know you're just making assumptions.

The same as I am when I say doctors abusing the system by up charging, billing for unnecessary and/or borderline unnecessary procedures is a far greater problem then the handfull of patients abusing the system. Do a google search and read all the stories of Medicare abuse. 95 year old patients receiving mamograms and colonoscopys just because Medicare will pay not because they actually need it.

Why do you think changing the way healhcare providers are reimbursed is one of the core provisions of the new healthcare law. Pay doctors for outcomes rather than individual procedures to avoid the above mentioned abuses.

 

[Pharmavixen]

People who say they're moving to Canada because of ObamaCare

Though if our single-payor health care doesn't kill you, our stronger beer might.

 

[NaOH]

People who say they're moving to Canada because of ObamaCare

 

[pinipig523]

Anecdotal evidence doesn't trump anecdotal evidence. You can claim hundreds are abusing the system in the end you do not know you're just making assumptions.

The same as I am when I say doctors abusing the system by up charging, billing for unnecessary and/or borderline unnecessary procedures is a far greater problem then the handfull of patients abusing the system. Do a google search and read all the stories of Medicare abuse. 95 year old patients receiving mamograms and colonoscopys just because Medicare will pay not because they actually need it.

Why do you think changing the way healhcare providers are reimbursed is one of the core provisions of the new healthcare law. Pay doctors for outcomes rather than individual procedures to avoid the above mentioned abuses.

Anecdotal evidence can be compared to anecdotal evidence - at least purely for argument's sake. If the other guy wants to bust out some anecdotal numbers, let's bust them out. I want him to show me his anecdotal support his claim of 10:1.

I know what I saw and I know the abuse that goes on. I don't need a randomized controlled (not even sure how you would do that) or prospective study to tell me what I have experienced.

Do I honestly need a study to tell me that it is abuse to bring your grandma from mexico just to have free care at a County hospital for your stage 4 cancer? Do I need a study to tell me just what the patient's family told me?

"She came from Mexico last night and she has been complaining of this issue for 3 years. The doctors in Mexico told her she would need this treatment. Can you treat her?"

No problem - let's admit her for chemotx, radiation, possible surgical excision and let's consult medicine, ID, heme, onc, and the surgeons. Let's also get PT involved. Let's also find a rehab center that caters to undocumented aliens.

And let's charge it to the tax payers.

Meanwhile - you got everyone else like you and I, taxpayers and people with actual insurance - we have to play the waiting game. It's interesting how we end up having to wait for outpatient work up and referrals to specialists while those who end up finding loopholes in the system just bypass the line and move right to the front.

I can't tell you how many times people were upset that their "free" dermatology appointment is in 1 week and not tomorrow. While my wife with WAG Blue Cross PPO has to wait 2-3 weeks for her appointment.

And let's not start pointing fingers at abuse and corruption. It's pervasive in all walks of life. Pharmacy is not immune - I'm sure you all know.

 

[npage148]

I don't need to get into a Medicaid fraud argument. Your mind is made up, the end user is the problem and I'm not going to change your mind. Keep thinking its the illegals And the slobs that may use $20k/lifetime that are the problem not the doctors over billing $100k's for inappropriate tests and procedures or the pharmacies billing for drugs never dispensed, or the transport services tacking on miles to the log.

Like I said before, If its such a lucrative and cushy lifestyle why not quit and start collecting benIfits

 

[pinipig523]

I don't need to get into a Medicaid fraud argument. Your mind is made up, the end user is the problem and I'm not going to change your mind. Keep thinking its the illegals And the slobs that may use $20k/lifetime that are the problem not the doctors over billing $100k's for inappropriate tests and procedures or the pharmacies billing for drugs never dispensed, or the transport services tacking on miles to the log.

Like I said before, If its such a lucrative and cushy lifestyle why not quit and start collecting benIfits

Exactly and yours is made up too.

Actually, lets make an even more general statement. The real fault lies in the American people for allowing such a fraudulent and abuse-prone system. The tax payers are at fault.

If we knew better, we'd know how to control physician abuse, pharmaceutical abuse, and end user abuse.

 

[SHC1984]

many people makes minimum wage... 100-150 might not be much for those locking in 30-40+ bucks an hour but for those guys it's a good 2 days of work after tax. that's nearly 10% a month going for "insurance", tag on the cost of rent, travel expense, food, those guys will be eating grass for lunch in no time.

How about everyone gets 1% of their paycheck or income deducted automatically for a national health insurance? That would work too. If $100 a month is truely too much than 1% of your income shouldn't be. Just 1% won't kill anyone,

My point is, sure everyone wants cheap healthcare thats fine. But please expect to work and pay for it. The amount of people in this country that want the BEST of everything yet don't want to lift a finger to get it themselves is crazy. You want the BEST of everything, then you should expect to work for it.

You want healthcare? well, expect to have some money deducted out of your paycheck for it.

You are on medicaid? It shouldn't be free, you should have to pay for it somehow. If everyone in this country paids 1% of their paycheck towards medicaid then that can be the national insurance and it would be cheap and if everyone pays for it then I am sure everyone's copay would be $3. The point is if everyone would just contribute to ONE insurance plan, then it would be cheap, affortable and provide good coverage. However, most people in this country just want to sit and recieve. It's hard to find someone that actually wants to work in this country.

 

[SHC1984]

Oh for god's sake. You've been around almost 30 years and what have you ever produced except a big credit card bill at Victoria's Secret?

I actually owe a even bigger bill at Bebe and BCBG.

Maybe I shouldn't say produce. I should say the world should select for people that can make MONEY and use the MONEY they make to stimulate the economy.

Paris Hilton helps stimulate the economy A LOT. She spends tons of money and paids TONS of taxes. She paids more taxes than anyone else on here! She spends lots of money and help stimulate this economy more so than most others. She is techinically producing. She has tons of money and is stimulating the economy OR "giving" to the economy. She is spending/giving her money away to help the economy. That is GIVING and it's beneficial.

I spend my share of money in this economy too! And I will be a pharmacist next year so I will be producing a six figure salary, paying my taxes and giving MORE to the economy. The point is if a person makes tons of money and is givng back to the economy than that person is what we should be selecting for.

A person that does NOTHING, but take money away from the economy (A medicaid person is a perfect example) they make no money, they don't work, they only spend money on illegal drugs that aren't taxed and knock off Louis Vuitton bags. Those people are only TAKING AWAY from the economy. That is my point here. If you are someone that works and GIVES MONEY to the economy than you are producing. If you are someone that only TAKES IN MONEY and do nothing than you are the cause of the 50 trillion dollar debt this country is already in. You are the reason why this country and economy is doing so poorly. And it would be best to get rid of those people.

 

[npage148]

It's cute that you think people on Medicaid are the principle cause of the national debt

 

[pinipig523]

It's cute that you think people on Medicaid are the principle cause of the national debt

I don't think that. Medicaid is a state affair, not a national one.

What I think is the root cause for healthcare waste is abuse in general. Just last night I saw a guy who's been to the ER for asthma exacerbations 10 times in the past 2 months. 10 times. That's insane.

The reason? I asked him.

The reason is because he doesn't want to stand in line at the pharmacy to pick up his prednisone. So instead of spending an hour in line and $3... he chooses to spend THOUSANDS of tax payers' money.

So not picking up his prednisone, he'd rather be shuttled to the front of the line at our ER every time he begins to wheeze.

Why? Because he doesn't have to pay and he has no common sense or social decency.

The worst part? I saw the same thing the day before. And the day before that. And the day before that. Different patients. It's sick how people are so inconsiderate of the general populous, the tax payers, us.

 

[Its Z]

FYI Breaking information.

None of your opinions matter and there's not a single thing anyone of us can do today to change the way our healthcare in the US will head.

If you simply enjoy bantering, then so carry on. Do know that no one here will convince the other of differing opinions and views.

 

[xiphoid2010]

While I'm not sure how big of a part abuse of the system plays, but I have seen plenty of it already. Here in Texas there is definitely a lot of money being spent on illegal immigrants.

 

[Its Z]

If it wasn't for those illegal migrant workers you'd pay 50% more for your house

 

[npage148]

Free health care is the least we can do while paying them 2$ an hour to pick our crops and slaughter our meat. They contribute more than their fair share to our economy.

 

[MountainPharmD]

If it wasn't for those illegal migrant workers you'd pay 50% more for your house

...and 50% more for the fruit and vegetables you eat. There is a good and a bad side to everything.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Are you sure? Houses in other Midwest states with much less immigration problem cost no more than here. Heck, a comparable house in the suburbs of Columbus, Ohio would be a little cheaper.

Ps. I thought food should be cheaper in Texas as well, but no. It's actually a bit more expensive than Ohio. Texas high property and sales tax were a bit of a shock to me, but I do love the fact that there is no state income tax, so I can also deduct my sales tax. In the end living cost all kinda evens out. Just don't think all the illegals make things cheaper here than other Midwest states.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Free health care is the least we can do while paying them 2$ an hour to pick our crops and slaughter our meat. They contribute more than their fair share to our economy.

Really? If illegals are so wonderful, I wonder why we haven't opened our boarders long time ago already.

 

[npage148]

Politics and the economy, plain and simple. Xenophobia (they took Our jobs!) wins elections and we refuse to pay a living wage for products. So our current situation is perfect. Look tough of immigration while giving them under the table jobs that no US citizen would be caught dead doing

 

[xiphoid2010]

Not saying there aren't silver lining somewhere. But my questions are (1) is this country trying to be a land ruled by law, if not then what other laws should be ignored and by whom.(2) what is the net cost to tax payers to have dirty jobs done by illegals vs. legally outsourcing to some other 3rd world country?

 

[MountainPharmD]

Really? If illegals are so wonderful, I wonder why we haven't opened our boarders long time ago already.

They aren't closed...

 

[pinipig523]

FYI Breaking information.

None of your opinions matter and there's not a single thing anyone of us can do today to change the way our healthcare in the US will head.

If you simply enjoy bantering, then so carry on. Do know that no one here will convince the other of differing opinions and views.

I'm not out to convince anybody, I'm just stating my POV. Yes, it's banter - but that's why you have this forum, yes?

While I'm not sure how big of a part abuse of the system plays, but I have seen plenty of it already. Here in Texas there is definitely a lot of money being spent on illegal immigrants.

Tough question regarding illegals.

Which part of TX are you located and what kind of abuse are you seeing?

 

[MountainPharmD]

FYI Breaking information.

None of your opinions matter and there's not a single thing anyone of us can do today to change the way our healthcare in the US will head.

If you simply enjoy bantering, then so carry on. Do know that no one here will convince the other of differing opinions and views.

Practice what you preach there bubba!

 

[xiphoid2010]

Which part of TX are you located and what kind of abuse are you seeing?

Where i'm at can leave in the morning, be across the border and back in time for dinner.

Anyway, the nurses in labor and delivery talk about illegals coming over to give birth and get citizenship. The last one I talked to was saying it was 1 in 10. Not sure if she was exaggerating, but obviously it's not rare. We just had a patient who got a some court order or something about deportation during her admission. That's was interesting.

 

[Ackj]

It's cute that you think people on Medicaid are the principle cause of the national debt

Drop in the bucket. Kind of like how inhalers were the cause of a hole in the ozone layer, so we had to make HFA inhalers instead. Don't worry about the emissions from industry around the world. Or "big budget cuts" that reduce spending by a few million, while debt is in trillions. I agree that you have to start somewhere, and something is better than nothing. Medicare/caid fraud is definitely not the largest issue, but it's still one that needs fixing.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Drop in the bucket. Kind of like how inhalers were the cause of a hole in the ozone layer, so we had to make HFA inhalers instead. Don't worry about the emissions from industry around the world. Or "big budget cuts" that reduce spending by a few million, while debt is in trillions. I agree that you have to start somewhere, and something is better than nothing. Medicare/caid fraud is definitely not the largest issue, but it's still one that needs fixing.

Totally agree.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

It's cute that you think people on Medicaid are the principle cause of the national debt

Or that the majority of people in this country don't work...

Or that there are no employed individuals on Medicaid...

Or that people on Medicaid ONLY buy illegal drugs and nothing else...




Did anyone catch the last sentence of her post? Where she seems to have moved on from advocating letting all HIV patients and the mentally disabled die (which was bad enough) to advocating some sort of mass genocide of the poor??

 

[schamj01]

these threads get a little disturbing sometimes...

 

[pinipig523]

Where i'm at can leave in the morning, be across the border and back in time for dinner.

Anyway, the nurses in labor and delivery talk about illegals coming over to give birth and get citizenship. The last one I talked to was saying it was 1 in 10. Not sure if she was exaggerating, but obviously it's not rare. We just had a patient who got a some court order or something about deportation during her admission. That's was interesting.

Geez.

 

[xiphoid2010]

It was in the news just a bit back, one of the Texas politician demanded Mexico's president to pay the bill, stating that the illegals cost Texas health and public services something like $X billion per year. Of course it's all political showmanship to get votes, but the cost he pointed out was interesting.

Edit: googled it http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/04/texas-legislator-to-mexico-pay-us-back/

 

[Pharmavixen]

It was in the news just a bit back, one of the Texas politician demanded Mexico's president to pay the bill, stating that the illegals cost Texas health and public services something like $X billion per year. Of course it's all political showmanship to get votes, but the cost he pointed out was interesting.

Edit: googled it http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/04/texas-legislator-to-mexico-pay-us-back/

Aside from the benefit that illegals provide to the economy pointed out by previous posters, Mexico could fairly respond by asking the US to pay for the expenses of its ghastly drug war.

 

[MountainPharmD]

It was in the news just a bit back, one of the Texas politician demanded Mexico's president to pay the bill, stating that the illegals cost Texas health and public services something like $X billion per year. Of course it's all political showmanship to get votes, but the cost he pointed out was interesting.

Edit: googled it http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/04/texas-legislator-to-mexico-pay-us-back/

I had this idea years ago. Take all the money we give to Mexico in aid every year and subtract the costs of illegal immigration. Have every state submit a cost estimate and then reimburse them out of the aid we would have sent to Mexico.

The US is good at hiding the actual amounts but it is in the hundreds of millions.

 

[MountainPharmD]

Aside from the benefit that illegals provide to the economy pointed out by previous posters, Mexico could fairly respond by asking the US to pay for the expenses of its ghastly drug war.

Why? It is a drug war of thier own creation. Years of lax of no enforcement combined with wide spread government corruption. I say that is another expense we need to bill them for.

 

[124bbb]

Where i'm at can leave in the morning, be across the border and back in time for dinner.

Anyway, the nurses in labor and delivery talk about illegals coming over to give birth and get citizenship. The last one I talked to was saying it was 1 in 10. Not sure if she was exaggerating, but obviously it's not rare. We just had a patient who got a some court order or something about deportation during her admission. That's was interesting.

If you're that close, then you can't very well assume other parts of the country would be equally affected as the nurses you speak of in your location. Maybe some hospital in Burlington, Vermont or somewhere similar would have statistics that would nullify this one.

 

[Its Z]

If you're that close, then you can't very well assume other parts of the country would be equally affected as the nurses you speak of in your location. Maybe some hospital in Burlington, Vermont or somewhere similar would have statistics that would nullify this one.

That would be Fletcher Allen. I've done consulting work for them. Nice little college town. And since Canadians don't typically ferry on over through upstate NY to give birth in Burlington, your assumption may be correct.

 

[xiphoid2010]

If you're that close, then you can't very well assume other parts of the country would be equally affected as the nurses you speak of in your location. Maybe some hospital in Burlington, Vermont or somewhere similar would have statistics that would nullify this one.

I was speaking about Texas. Where did you get that I was trying to apply it to other parts of the country?

 

[Its Z]

Aside from the benefit that illegals provide to the economy pointed out by previous posters, Mexico could fairly respond by asking the US to pay for the expenses of its ghastly drug war.

Great idea. We should.. as soon as the US of Canada decides to join the states or start paying us for the economic benefits gained by being our neighbor.




Now now... Canada benefits also through NAFTA and getting those cheap produce from Mexico. Otherwise y'all be all walking around with scurvy.

 

[124bbb]

I thought your argument was that illegal immigration was a problem across the country, I didn't realize you were saying it was only a concern in Texas. Since this thread is about the health law, which would include the whole country, I thought you were making points about nationwide dilemmas. My bad.

I was speaking about Texas. Where did you get that I was trying to apply it to other parts of the country?

 

[124bbb]

That would be Fletcher Allen. I've done consulting work for them. Nice little college town. And since Canadians don't typically ferry on over through upstate NY to give birth in Burlington, your assumption may be correct.

It was a fortuitous example.

 

[PharmDstudent]

I don't think that. Medicaid is a state affair, not a national one.

What I think is the root cause for healthcare waste is abuse in general. Just last night I saw a guy who's been to the ER for asthma exacerbations 10 times in the past 2 months. 10 times. That's insane.

The reason? I asked him.

The reason is because he doesn't want to stand in line at the pharmacy to pick up his prednisone. So instead of spending an hour in line and $3... he chooses to spend THOUSANDS of tax payers' money.

So not picking up his prednisone, he'd rather be shuttled to the front of the line at our ER every time he begins to wheeze.

Why? Because he doesn't have to pay and he has no common sense or social decency.

The worst part? I saw the same thing the day before. And the day before that. And the day before that. Different patients. It's sick how people are so inconsiderate of the general populous, the tax payers, us.

I see many more problems with Medicaid recipients than I do with providers, because I work in retail, but Medicare was charged for a "birthing kit" on my grandfather's account several years ago, and he forced the billing department to take it off.

How about the Florida Medicare fraud?
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5111033n
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/30/2875863/case-highlights-money-laundering.html

It's a two-way street.

 

[BidingMyTime]

Paris Hilton helps stimulate the economy A LOT. She spends tons of money and paids TONS of taxes. She paids more taxes than anyone else on here! She spends lots of money and help stimulate this economy more so than most others. She is techinically producing. She has tons of money and is stimulating the economy OR "giving" to the economy. She is spending/giving her money away to help the economy. That is GIVING and it's beneficial.

A person that does NOTHING, but take money away from the economy (A medicaid person is a perfect example) they make no money, they don't work, they only spend money on illegal drugs that aren't taxed and knock off Louis Vuitton bags. Those people are only TAKING AWAY from the economy.

I don't follow your line of argument, if Paris Hilton spending tons of money that she got from someone else is good, then why do you think a medicaid recipient spending tons of money they got from someone else is bad? (PS, medicaid recipients don't get the medicaid money paid directly to them, to spend on illegal drugs or Louis Vuitton knock-off bags.....they get money paid directly to healthcare providers for their care.)


As for my opinion on the OP....I think Obamacare has more negatives than positives, I think Obamacare is a bad hybrid that will maximize the worst of capitalistic & socialistic systems, instead of maximizing the best of capitalistic & socialist systems. On the other hand, Obamacare is not going to end society as we know, nor will the middle-class is not going to be decimated by this ruling. I don't think Obamacare is anything to celebrate, and I don't think it will have the great effect its support think it will have, but it's certainly nothing to be all gloom & doom about either.

 

[xiphoid2010]

I thought your argument was that illegal immigration was a problem across the country, I didn't realize you were saying it was only a concern in Texas. Since this thread is about the health law, which would include the whole country, I thought you were making points about nationwide dilemmas. My bad.

It was in response to another poster requesting what kind of abuse of healthcare system i have seen. I provided that we see frequently in Texas. Other states probably have their own unique set of problems.

 

[Pharmavixen]

Why? It is a drug war of their own creation. Years of lax or no enforcement combined with wide spread government corruption. I say that is another expense we need to bill them for.

That's cause you're not taking into account the root causes. Here in N. America, we are the biggest users of illicit drugs in the world. The huge profits generated by the desire for these drugs far outstrips even the most sophisticated law enforcement such as the US and Canada can afford - the US has an incarceration rate 5 to 6 times that of other western industrialized nations, and is still losing the drug war.

The Hidden Cost of the War on Drugs

Since Mexican President Felipe Calderon took office in September 2006, there have been well over an estimated 13,600 drug-related killings in the country. The killings are tied to Mexican drug cartels, which supply vast amounts of marijuana, methamphetamines, and cocaine primarily to U.S. markets. The deaths are only becoming more prevalent. The New York Times reports that “in 2008, there were more than 6,200 drug-related murders, more than double the figure from the year before….” There has been significant spillover into the U.S. as well, including the kidnapping of more than 60 Americans in the border town of Nuevo Laredo within the last few years.

All this violence comes subsequent to President Calderon's crackdown on the cartels. The real problem is America's dysfunctional attitude toward drugs of abuse: the irrational prohibition on marijuana, the funding of punitive measures rather than harm reduction-based treatment of addicts, and of course, why the heck so many of us in the north are addicts in the 1st place.

 

[xiphoid2010]

the combat methampetamine act was likely a mistake. It effectively shut down the backwoods chemistry set type of operation in Tennessee and Kentucky, so now instead of the Made in the USA meth, we got imported meth instead.

 

[rxlea]

That's cause you're not taking into account the root causes. Here in N. America, we are the biggest users of illicit drugs in the world. The huge profits generated by the desire for these drugs far outstrips even the most sophisticated law enforcement such as the US and Canada can afford - the US has an incarceration rate 5 to 6 times that of other western industrialized nations, and is still losing the drug war.

The Hidden Cost of the War on Drugs



All this violence comes subsequent to President Calderon's crackdown on the cartels. The real problem is America's dysfunctional attitude toward drugs of abuse: the irrational prohibition on marijuana, the funding of punitive measures rather than harm reduction-based treatment of addicts, and of course, why the heck so many of us in the north are addicts in the 1st place.

I heard that Canada has a serious special K problem. Latest stats show that most of the special k in the us is coming from there.

But I totally agree. The government doesn't get to the root of the problem. It's a waste of money. Decriminalizing marijuana would free up room in our jails and allow law enforcement to focus on other things. I sometimes think the medical marijuana argument is bogus, though. I think there are other ways to approach the issue.

 

[pharm B]

Decriminalizing marijuana would free up room in our jails and allow law enforcement to focus on other things. I sometimes think the medical marijuana argument is bogus, though. I think there are other ways to approach the issue.

Amen, sister.

 

[Indypharm]

I heard that Canada has a serious special K problem. Latest stats show that most of the special k in the us is coming from there.

But I totally agree. The government doesn't get to the root of the problem. It's a waste of money. Decriminalizing marijuana would free up room in our jails and allow law enforcement to focus on other things. I sometimes think the medical marijuana argument is bogus, though. I think there are other ways to approach the issue.

My husband and I used to joke that if they legalize marijuana you will end up seeing packs of Marlboro "Greens" at gas stations.