Healthcare Bill -- YES or NO?

[roseglass6370]

The government is deciding that health insurance is a right. Now the government is deciding our rights and can take them away. Obama is officially playing God.

I'm pretty sure that the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" is in the Constitution somewhere. I think the inability to pay for surgery to remove a fatal tumor is considered an infringement of rights under that.

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[fitz0809]

i'm sorry. i pay taxes and i don't want them going to them. call me mean....sure. i would prefer uninsured americans get the coverage instead....the whole medical care debate about it being a right or a privilege is for americans......not for illegals. but then that takes me off on a tangent as to why everyone is so ready to help other countries (like Haiti for the earthquake, which was indeed tragic) and people donate collectively millions and millions of dollars to these foreign countries, but we cant help those domestically....i'll save that for another tread.

Yes... I agree that we should focus on ourselves first.

I also understand that we can't help everybody, just highlighting the fact that such a little thing like a 50 mile difference can make such big difference.

 

[fitz0809]

I'm pretty sure that the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" is in the Constitution somewhere. I think the inability to pay for surgery to remove a fatal tumor is considered an infringement of rights under that.

 

[anfleisch]

The bill could create a huge shortage of doctors especially in some of the higher paid specialties who take on a big paycut. This could be beneficial in the 15 year span until we actually are there.

 

[roseglass6370]

The drama of all this is just...so amusing. I can be fair here and say this is probably how progressives looked when they would moan about the Bush administration. I hated Bush, but I was never one of those people who thought he was going to declare some sort of national emergency to prevent the 2008 elections (and those people were numerous.) I guess it's my turn to just stare and laugh at the people who seem to think this is literally THE END OF AMERICA OMG HOLY CRAP SOCIALISM COMMUNISM FASCISM NAZISM BROWNSHIRTS!

Things this is: A rather pathetic excuse for an entitlement program, one of MANY that have been implemented in the past century. You use government services every. Single. Day.

Things this is not: Obama playing God. The end of America. The antichrist's fetid, putrescent hands working behind the scenes. A communist takeover.

 

[oaklandguy]

I'm pretty sure that the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" is in the Constitution somewhere. I think the inability to pay for surgery to remove a fatal tumor is considered an infringement of rights under that.

right to life = no one can kill you. If I kill myself am I breaking the law because I have the right to live? If that is the case then someone should be sued every single time someone dies.

Pursuit of happiness. I think not being able to pay for something is part of why you are pursuing happiness, but not straight up being handed happiness.

 

[fitz0809]

The bill could create a huge shortage of doctors especially in some of the higher paid specialties who take on a big paycut. This could be beneficial in the 15 year span until we actually are there.

It won't create a shortage...

The shortage is there, it will just show it.

 

[mechanictodr]

I'm pretty sure that the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" is in the Constitution somewhere. I think the inability to pay for surgery to remove a fatal tumor is considered an infringement of rights under that.

Pusuit... that damn word is there for a reason. It's no guarantee.

Also, inability to pay doesn't mean that it won't get done or that it won't be paid by someone else.

 

[jkhanh]

Yeah, they deserve health insurance and I deserve my ferrari.

In all reality there's a lot of sad things that go on in our country. Realistically it would be impossible for a perfect world. I don't think it's fair that dorks don't get laid enough. Should the dems start a government provided prostitution ring that gets dorks who cannot get laid a hooker once a month for sex?

I giggled lolz.

 

[oaklandguy]

Again, Porsches cost a lot of money. I need a porsche to be happy. The government needs to restrict the cost of porsches or find a way for me to get a free porsche.

 

[minicow]

can we opt out of the ferrari and into a lambo?

 

[WhizoMD]

YES......Hopefully this will get us closer to not treating human lives as market commodities

 

[oaklandguy]

can we opt out of the ferrari and into a lambo?

It depends on what the bureaucrats decide. If you are old and about to die you stick in the ferrari. If you're young and contributing a lot to taxes then you can change.

 

[mechanictodr]

can we opt out of the ferrari and into a lambo?

I don't need the car... just some hot twins.

 

[morning]

I don't need the car... just some hot twins.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE1xeKzgR-k[/YOUTUBE]

 

[fitz0809]

YES......Hopefully this will get us closer to not treating human lives as market commodities

 

[FlowRate]

It's also the only way those people could get care...

They were born 50 miles too far south and are thus doomed to a life of misery. That sucks more for them than someone that has to wait 6 hours to get stitches.

I don't mean to seem like I'm "picking on" you, but we definitely have very different views on rights/reality/politics. However, I really want to make this point anyway:

Why is it that so many people justify illegal immigration from Mexico that way? I have two major objections to it. Things that strike me as extremely unjust:

1. People from other countries, with arguably worse conditions, generally have to immigrate here legally (fewer illegals when they don't have a common border). I have friends, mostly my asian friends, whose parents worked for YEARS to immigrate here legally. I think it devalues all of the hard work they put in when there are people who can jump over a river to get into our country.

2. In other places, when a country turns to crap, the people revolt. Why have we lost sight of this ideal? If the government infringes upon the rights of its people and if the majority of the people in a country agree, it is the right (duty?) of the citizenry to usurp the illegitimate, oppressive government. Why does Mexico have to be an exception to this? People born 2000 miles away were born into a life much, much worse than the life of the average Mexican.

I would like to clarify that when you read Mexican in my writing, it means by Nationality and is not meant as an insult, as it is often pronounced. I've met many, many great Mexican people.

 

[minicow]

It depends on what the bureaucrats decide. If you are old and about to die you stick in the ferrari. If you're young and contributing a lot to taxes then you can change.

then i should be good for the next 40 years...unless they lower the useful age

my mom is screwed...maybe theyll give her a saturn....nope, probably a gm

 

[roseglass6370]

right to life = no one can kill you.

Lol, really? I thought it meant the right to live.

But really, I'm done arguing this because I feel like I'm starting to sound rude and I really don't want to.

 

[oaklandguy]

Higher taxes means me having less money to spend on food. No food = no life. Technically the government is taking away my right to live too, technically. (according to your interpretation of the constitution).

 

[fitz0809]

I don't mean to seem like I'm "picking on" you, but we definitely have very different views on rights/reality/politics. However, I really want to make this point anyway:

Why is it that so many people justify illegal immigration from Mexico that way? I have two major objections to it. Things that strike me as extremely unjust:

1. People from other countries, with arguably worse conditions, generally have to immigrate here legally (fewer illegals when they don't have a common border). I have friends, mostly my asian friends, whose parents worked for YEARS to immigrate here legally. I think it devalues all of the hard work they put in when there are people who can jump over a river to get into our country.

2. In other places, when a country turns to crap, the people revolt. Why have we lost sight of this ideal? If the government infringes upon the rights of its people and if the majority of the people in a country agree, it is the right (duty?) of the citizenry to usurp the illegitimate, oppressive government. Why does Mexico have to be an exception to this? People born 2000 miles away were born into a life much, much worse than the life of the average Mexican.

I would like to clarify that when you read Mexican in my writing, it means by Nationality and is not meant as an insult, as it is often pronounced. I've met many, many great Mexican people.

I agree that it devalues people who do it right. It just sucks to not do it or wait 6 years to do it right.

And I agree that people should revolt to make things better... the problem is that it is a difficult thing to get done and get done right. Almost always it creates worse conditions or war... neither of which is good.

 

[fitz0809]

Higher taxes means me having less money to spend on food. No food = no life. Technically the government is taking away my right to live too, technically. (according to your interpretation of the constitution).

Technically when the government takes your money to educate your children or the population then apparently they are starving you to death.

***This is by no means to say that the government efficiently educates people. Just that the idea of pooling resources is nice.

 

[MDTDO]

its ridiciulous. illegals are such a problem where i went to college, in Tucson, AZ....which is the most common point for illegals to cross the border in the country.....tucson is just filled with them...as are the hospitals, and they are destroying health care down there.....its sad. i volunteered in the ER down in Tucson at the main medical center (UMC) and all i can remember are the tons and tons of patients who were illegals and without insurance that we treated. the ER wait at times was like 6-8 hours and way out the door (and it was a huge triage area).......its sad.

Who better to comment on the american healthcare system than someone who hasn't even set foot into medical school and lives in a redneck state while using the term "illegals." let me guess, your parents are conservatives, love john mccain and hate everyone who doesn't? I went to UA so I know how it is.. thinking you know jack when you don't

 

[oaklandguy]

Technically when the government takes your money to educate your children or the population then apparently they are starving you to death.

***This is by no means to say that the government efficiently educates people. Just that the idea of pooling resources is nice.

Someone gets hurt either way. Either the people who are not bringing in the money to pay for health insurance, or those working hard to make money and will end up losing more in taxes.

I think that we live in the country of opportunity and that anyone can go out and get a job (barring criminal record and bad interviewing skills etc.) and pay for the things they want. Now I think health insurance should be cheaper, but I believe there are many things like tort reform which could help lower the costs.

 

[ApoK]

Who better to comment on the american healthcare system than someone who hasn't even set foot into medical school and lives in a redneck state while using the term "illegals." let me guess, your parents are conservatives, love john mccain and hate everyone who doesn't? I went to UA so I know how it is.. thinking you know jack when you don't

jturkel, before you get offended by this comment, you need to see how prejudiced your post really is. People outside of the red states do not think like this. We do not view people as "illegals" even if they don't have visas or citizenship. They're not some subclass beneath "real Americans." I'd just be careful with your language moving forward. Just some practical advice...

 

[bookfreak89]

I don't mean to seem like I'm "picking on" you, but we definitely have very different views on rights/reality/politics. However, I really want to make this point anyway:

Why is it that so many people justify illegal immigration from Mexico that way? I have two major objections to it. Things that strike me as extremely unjust:

1. People from other countries, with arguably worse conditions, generally have to immigrate here legally (fewer illegals when they don't have a common border). I have friends, mostly my asian friends, whose parents worked for YEARS to immigrate here legally. I think it devalues all of the hard work they put in when there are people who can jump over a river to get into our country.

2. In other places, when a country turns to crap, the people revolt. Why have we lost sight of this ideal? If the government infringes upon the rights of its people and if the majority of the people in a country agree, it is the right (duty?) of the citizenry to usurp the illegitimate, oppressive government. Why does Mexico have to be an exception to this? People born 2000 miles away were born into a life much, much worse than the life of the average Mexican.

I would like to clarify that when you read Mexican in my writing, it means by Nationality and is not meant as an insult, as it is often pronounced. I've met many, many great Mexican people.

I agree + Asians/Africans/Europeans (granted their countries aren't in worse conditions) all have to apply to obtain visas to come here. It takes people YEARS to be able to do so. Now with national security becoming more of an alarm, it is even harder for them to gain access to this country.

 

[oaklandguy]

jturkel, before you get offended by this comment, you need to see how prejudiced your post really is. People outside of the red states do not think like this. We do not view people as "illegals" even if they don't have visas or citizenship. They're not some subclass beneath "real Americans." I'd just be careful with your language moving forward. Just some practical advice...

Tell this to the State of Michigan kicking out arabs who have fled here due to asylum. Liberals can really be full of crap sometimes.

 

[StormingWynn]

Someone gets hurt either way. Either the people who are not bringing in the money to pay for health insurance, or those working hard to make money and will end up losing more in taxes.

I think that we live in the country of opportunity and that anyone can go out and get a job (barring criminal record and bad interviewing skills etc.) and pay for the things they want. Now I think health insurance should be cheaper, but I believe there are many things like tort reform which could help lower the costs.

Tell that to those who CANNOT and while NOT ever get health coverage with the current situation because of a pre-existing condition. Or how about the people who pay for years and years for health coverage with no health problems until they get cancer and the insurance company finds a yeast infection or what not that occurred when they were 16 and now they've been dropped. Get real! Also, you're posts are stupid. You think like a 12 year old. "Oh i have a right to a porsche!!!!" "OMG OMG" But they sure make me lulz.

 

[ApoK]

Tell this to the State of Michigan kicking out arabs who have fled here due to asylum. Liberals can really be full of crap sometimes.

Michigan is an exception. I've seen Gran Torino.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXD8yOxIPB0[/YOUTUBE]

 

[morning]

Technically when the government takes your money to educate your children or the population then apparently they are starving you to death.

***This is by no means to say that the government efficiently educates people. Just that the idea of pooling resources is nice.

Everyone here thinks pooling resources is nice, they just aren't thinking beyond the drama. People thrive on drama.

A for instance: if you went to a public university, you took advantage of "pooling resources." If you live in Texas and are delighted at the low tuition and the residency requirements, well, that's SOCIALIZED EDUCATION.

If you complain about medical school debt, how do you think that's going to be resolved? The free market? HAH.

 

[NotAnMDOkay]

Very true. Not a perfect solution... but what about the five people that now receive care that didn't before?

Basically it depends on whether you think health should be a god given right or something that depends on your wealth or social status...

I believe I have a God given right to keep the property I work for and not have it forcefully taken from me and redistributed.

 

[oaklandguy]

Tell that to those who CANNOT and while NOT ever get health coverage with the current situation because of a pre-existing condition. Or how about the people who pay for years and years for health coverage with no health problems until they get cancer and the insurance company finds a yeast infection or what not that occurred when they were 16 and now they've been dropped. Get real! Also, you're posts are stupid. You think like a 12 year old. "Oh i have a right to a porsche!!!!" "OMG OMG" But they sure make me lulz.

Those posts are sarcastic and are just made to prove a point. At the same time, we need change that will ease access to insurance but not tank our country's debt. I don't think this bill will do that and the means they try to pay for it are by taxing the people...

I think a lot needs to change, but I think we also need to be realistic. I'm sick of arguing and I'm over it. I love the field of medicine and will be a doctor either way.

 

[rxlea]

1. The declaration of independence is not the same as the constitution.

2. Arizona is not a "hick" state. Phoenix is littered with liberal California transplants.

3. The term "illegals" is no different than saying the "negros".

4. What is it with liberals thinking that "illegal immigrants" deserve free healthcare just because they made it across the border?

EDIT:

5. To the poster above about socialized education: it doesn't work!

 

[oaklandguy]

You wouldn't think it's funny if you were being racially stereotyped and having your relatives sent back to countries where they will most likely be kidnapped, raped, and killed.

 

[StormingWynn]

1. The declaration of independence is not the same as the constitution.

2. Arizona is not a "hick" state. Phoenix is littered with liberal California transplants.

3. The term "illegals" is no different than saying the "negros".

4. What is it with liberals thinking that "illegal immigrants" deserve free healthcare just because they made it across the border?

Because they pay taxes, they'll never see again.

 

[ApoK]

1. The declaration of independence is not the same as the constitution.

2. Arizona is not a "hick" state. Phoenix is littered with liberal California transplants.

3. The term "illegals" is no different than saying the "negros".

4. What is it with liberals thinking that "illegal immigrants" deserve free healthcare just because they made it across the border?

Dear God almighty. I pray for you. Try saying this to a black man's face. Try going to downtown Oakland or Chicago and offer to buy a drink for the "negro." Say "I'd like to buy that negro over there a drink." I'd be completely shocked if you didn't get shot or at least punched.

 

[thamsenman]

Sheriff Joe booted out 78 more illegal immigrants the other day. 78 less people to cover on this bill.

Build the Fence!!

 

[StormingWynn]

Dear God almighty. I pray for you. Try saying this to a black man's face. Try going to downtown Oakland or Chicago and offer to buy a drink for the "negro." Say "I'd like to buy that negro over there a drink." I'd be completely shocked if you didn't get shot or at least punched.

 

[rxlea]

Because they pay taxes, they'll never see again.

are you serious??? you think every illegal immigrant pays taxes? Esp when they are using various SS numbers and stealing people's identities? Did you know Arizona has the highest incidence of identity theft? Do you know why?????

I take that back...some actually file taxes and get cash back!

 

[ApoK]

You wouldn't think it's funny if you were being racially stereotyped and having your relatives sent back to countries where they will most likely be kidnapped, raped, and killed.

Uh, what? I definitely would still find Gran Torino funny. It's funny because it's making fun of racial stereotypes in several cultures.

 

[rxlea]

Dear God almighty. I pray for you. Try saying this to a black man's face. Try going to downtown Oakland or Chicago and offer to buy a drink for the "negro." Say "I'd like to buy that negro over there a drink." I'd be completely shocked if you didn't get shot or at least punched.

Don't be weird. I was pointing out the derogatory nature of the word.

 

[oaklandguy]

Dear God almighty. I pray for you. Try saying this to a black man's face. Try going to downtown Oakland or Chicago and offer to buy a drink for the "negro." Say "I'd like to buy that negro over there a drink." I'd be completely shocked if you didn't get shot or at least punched.

That statement could be taken as racist though. What makes an african american different in Oakland or Chicago than anywhere else? Your post was filled with subliminal racism.

 

[ApoK]

Don't be weird. I was pointing out the derogatory nature of the word.

Oh, my bad. I thought you were defending the use of "illegals." That would have been hilarious. Sorry.

 

[mechanictodr]

Uh, what? I definitely would still find Gran Torino funny. It's funny because it's making fun of racial stereotypes in several cultures.

I need to watch Gran Torino. Maybe this week when I finish Carnivale... it's a little slow so a movie could be a good change of pace.

 

[ApoK]

That statement could be taken as racist though. What makes an african american different in Oakland or Chicago than anywhere else? Your post was filled with subliminal racism.

It's not racist, if it's true. I've seen it happen firsthand. Actually, it might be a bit racist, and I concede that I am a little bit. Who isn't?

 

[thamsenman]

1. The declaration of independence is not the same as the constitution.

2. Arizona is not a "hick" state. Phoenix is littered with liberal California transplants.

3. The term "illegals" is no different than saying the "negros".

4. What is it with liberals thinking that "illegal immigrants" deserve free healthcare just because they made it across the border?

EDIT:

5. To the poster above about socialized education: it doesn't work!

I hear Arizona's governor is a radiology technician from a community college. Is that true?

 

[NotAnMDOkay]

It's sad to see read the posts of these advocates of collectivism who champion their own enslavement. Brainwashed into a system built to do nothing but perpetuate itself and maintain constant rule by the powers that be.

 

[mechanictodr]

That statement could be taken as racist though. What makes an african american different in Oakland or Chicago than anywhere else? Your post was filled with subliminal racism.

Ya, but that kind is ok... Just watch John Stewart.

 

[StormingWynn]

are you serious??? you think every illegal immigrant pays taxes? Esp when they are using various SS numbers and stealing people's identities? Did you know Arizona has the highest incidence of identity theft? Do you know why?????

I'm not saying that every single immigrant pays taxes, but does every single immigrant get health treatment? Also, why bring the second part in? That's not even part of the debate. But since you brought it in. The type of identity theft you associate with illegal immigrants are far different from the identity theft other Americans preform. They just take a SSN and use it to get a job and basically that's where it ends because they can do most everything with their real identity. To top it off, most of the time it's a random number that doesn't even belong to anyone.

 

[MDTDO]

1. The declaration of independence is not the same as the constitution.

2. Arizona is not a "hick" state. Phoenix is littered with liberal California transplants.

3. The term "illegals" is no different than saying the "negros".

4. What is it with liberals thinking that "illegal immigrants" deserve free healthcare just because they made it across the border?

I like most of what you said... but: Arizona is totally redneck.. just because .01% of the current Arizona population hang out in scottsdale and are ASU transplants from all over the country.. they're the minority.

"illegals"="negroes" :excellent analogy.

I don't think liberals believe in free health care for illegal immigrants. that's just dumb, typical conservative bs. believe it if you want.