PhD/PsyD Help! Can I get my MA in a PsyD program and then quit to pursue therapy? Read on for my reasoning.

[emeyec]

Okay I am a psychology major (Junior) with a research emphasis and I am not 100% sure what I want to do after I graduate. I go back and forth between a Masters in Marriage and Family Therapy or a PsyD, but my only reservation about the MFT is that I may change my mind and want to pursue my PsyD later on in life and if I did the MFT I would have to complete the entire PsyD program including another masters, the MA in Psychology.

So I wondered... could I start a PsyD program and if I realize I really do only want to do therapy I graduate with my MA in Psychology (stop the PsyD program at that point) and take the licensing exam for therapy to practice as a therapist... and then later if I wanted to get my PsyD I can go back and apply to schools that apply MA's to their program?

My thinking for doing the PsyD program and not a stand alone MA in Psych is because of the clinical experience I will gain during the PsyD program from year 1.

Is this a logical idea or is it too confusing and I am just complicating things when theres another option out there?

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[Ollie123]

I think there are only a handful of states that allow licensure at the master's level in psychology and even then it may or may not be possible to get licensed depending on the structure of the program. An MA from a PsyD is not necessarily equivalent to a terminal masters in terms of structure/content.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

Maybe someone who has recently graduated from a PsyD program could chime in with more specific information here but I'm not sure that there would be a tremendous (certainly not enough to prepare you for independent practice of professional psychotherapy) amount of 'clinical experience' that you would get by merely completing 'year 1' in a PsyD (or PhD) program and then dropping out. What is your model of professional therapy? What preparation do you think is necessary before you're able to offer something that people are/should be willing to pay for? I would think that if I or a family member were handing over significant funds to someone for professional services then I would expect them to have more than an undergrad psychology curriculum (which doesn't prepare you for professional practice in any way shape or form) and a single year of beginning instruction in a doctoral program. I don't mean to sound harsh but I believe we have enough of an issue already with people in the field who have actually jumped through all the hoops to earn a doctorate and get licensed being, essentially, 'professional dilettantes' and not taking their jobs seriously enough.

 

[Spydra]

If you want the option of being an MFT in case you decide not to finish a PsyD then you need to make sure the PsyD program you enter will prepare you for MFT licensing along the way. I have met a few people over the years that did this, but they remained and finished the PsyD. Getting the MFT license partway through gave them more employment options since PsyD programs are usually unfunded and quite expensive. You could also ask PsyD programs you're interested in if coming in with an MFT from elsewhere will allow you to waive some course work.

Now if the PsyD programs you're looking at don't provide an MFT option but have an MA option, then keep in mind not all MAs will prepare you to sit for the license exam. Quitting the program at that point could mean having a degree with very limited job options.

It seems like you should spend some time learning about the different employment options/limitations at the MA or MFT level and the PsyD level to help you figure out exactly what you want to do. Then look at what programs are available to help you get there.

 

[smalltownpsych]

If you want to be a clinical psychologist, then a fully funded PhD is the best option. If that can't happen then you fall back to a more expensive but solid PsyD program. If you get into either of these types of doctoral programs, why would you think about dropping out? If life happens and you do have to drop out of a program, then you ask the question. It just doesn't make sense to start something like a doctoral program with an escape plan. The fallback plans happen prior to acceptance to a good program.

 

[PsyDr]

It's a pretty awful idea. Here's why:

1) getting back into a program: your chances of getting into another psd program after dropping out would be extremely limited. You're competing against students who want to be there vs a student with a docunebted history of leaving. Who do you pick?

2). Typically, formal practicum starts in year 2 with assessment practicum first because you have to learn to do administer tests and were up reports before you actually do then. Year three is typically therapy practicum. By that time you could have already graduated from an mft program.

3). Iirc, the ma is awarded after year three. Universities are not stupid and don't award an ma after year one or two for exactly the reasons you are talking about. By that time you are just looking at another year of courses and an internship before getting your psyd. I also recall coursework/tuition is heavily front loaded, so it's a bad financial call.

4). There is typically an expiration date on how long your course hours are accepted from a program. So going back won't save you time. You might find a program to honor an ma, but I have seen programs say that and then honor only a small fraction of the ma because of curricular differences.

5). If you are not going to a psyd program with tuition reimbursement, you are looking at what, like 200k? So 75% of that to get an ma is like 150k? Since the average mft salary is around 45k, repayment is going to hurt either in payments, not being able to get a mortgage due to debt/income ratio, and/or the tax bomb that hits you with ibr.

Lets be honest: you either want to limit where you move, or are trying to cheat the system to get an ma quickly. Not going to work.

 

[deleted343839]

No, this won't work. As others have pointed out, the master's you earn on the way to a doctoral degree will not necessarily make you license-eligible, nor would it allow you to "pick up where you left off" later on. I received my MA after two years of graduate school and no way I was remotely ready to practice independently. Fortunately, you still have time to make a decision. Research your options, reach out to people in the different careers you are considering, and put your energy into making a wise decision that you can commit to.

 

[ClinicalABA]

Licensure at the masters level will have different educational requirements that licensure at the doctoral level (check your state standards for details- info should be readily available online, and differs from jurisdiction to jurisdiction). A doctoral clinical program is not just a "masters plus." While the the doctoral program may have all the same required coursework as the masters program, it will likely be spread out over 3-4 years. For example, a lot of time during the first years of my doctoral program were spent on those pesky stats, research design, and "sciency" courses (physiology), with some of the courses required for masters licensing (e.g., multicultural considerations; consultation skills) coming in years 3-4. There were some masters level requirements (e.g., management of community mental health programs) that were not part of formal coursework. So, while your plan isn't necessarily impossible, for it to work will take a lot of research and planning on your part, as well as some likely adaptation of the curriculum if it isn't a terminal masters. I'd encourage you to go online and look at the requirements for MA level licensing in any jurisdiction you are interested in working in, and then compare the educational requirements to the course sequence from any doctoral program you are looking at. That exercise should provide some ore objective evidence as to the legitimacy of your plan.

 

[DRMomma]

I second everyone's comments above. Look into a master's in mental health counseling, that may be of interest to you as well.

 

[emeyec]

Okay I am a psychology major (Junior) with a research emphasis and I am not 100% sure what I want to do after I graduate. I go back and forth between a Masters in Marriage and Family Therapy or a PsyD, but my only reservation about the MFT is that I may change my mind and want to pursue my PsyD later on in life and if I did the MFT I would have to complete the entire PsyD program including another masters, the MA in Psychology.

So I wondered... could I start a PsyD program and if I realize I really do only want to do therapy I graduate with my MA in Psychology (stop the PsyD program at that point) and take the licensing exam for therapy to practice as a therapist... and then later if I wanted to get my PsyD I can go back and apply to schools that apply MA's to their program?

My thinking for doing the PsyD program and not a stand alone MA in Psych is because of the clinical experience I will gain during the PsyD program from year 1.

Is this a logical idea or is it too confusing and I am just complicating things when theres another option out there?

Just to clarify a few things because I realized I used some odd wording which confused some, but by year 1 I meant gaining clinical experience from the "get go"... beginning(first year) not that I'd drop out after 1 year... I wouldn't have a masters by then. When I said "later in life" I meant I was in the MFT program and decided I actually wanted to switch immediately and was worried of wasted time and money...

The thing is I am active in Psi Chi and general things the psychology department has provided for us majors and I don't feel like I am as passionate about getting my doctorate as a lot of the people I am surrounded by. Everyone knows exactly what they want to do and specific things they want to research and they seem whole heartedly in love with it where, me, I just enjoy learning about psychology and have a desire to relieve/aide suffering... so I guess I am sort of answering a part of my question and it sounds like MFT is a better option for me and if I change my mind, I'll just have to wait some time after my masters, save money and apply to doctorate programs.

 

[emeyec]

It's a pretty awful idea. Here's why:

1) getting back into a program: your chances of getting into another psd program after dropping out would be extremely limited. You're competing against students who want to be there vs a student with a docunebted history of leaving. Who do you pick?

2). Typically, formal practicum starts in year 2 with assessment practicum first because you have to learn to do administer tests and were up reports before you actually do then. Year three is typically therapy practicum. By that time you could have already graduated from an mft program.

3). Iirc, the ma is awarded after year three. Universities are not stupid and don't award an ma after year one or two for exactly the reasons you are talking about. By that time you are just looking at another year of courses and an internship before getting your psyd. I also recall coursework/tuition is heavily front loaded, so it's a bad financial call.

4). There is typically an expiration date on how long your course hours are accepted from a program. So going back won't save you time. You might find a program to honor an ma, but I have seen programs say that and then honor only a small fraction of the ma because of curricular differences.

5). If you are not going to a psyd program with tuition reimbursement, you are looking at what, like 200k? So 75% of that to get an ma is like 150k? Since the average mft salary is around 45k, repayment is going to hurt either in payments, not being able to get a mortgage due to debt/income ratio, and/or the tax bomb that hits you with ibr.

Lets be honest: you either want to limit where you move, or are trying to cheat the system to get an ma quickly. Not going to work.

Thank you for your response, I appreciate the honest answers!

 

[emeyec]

Licensure at the masters level will have different educational requirements that licensure at the doctoral level (check your state standards for details- info should be readily available online, and differs from jurisdiction to jurisdiction). A doctoral clinical program is not just a "masters plus." While the the doctoral program may have all the same required coursework as the masters program, it will likely be spread out over 3-4 years. For example, a lot of time during the first years of my doctoral program were spent on those pesky stats, research design, and "sciency" courses (physiology), with some of the courses required for masters licensing (e.g., multicultural considerations; consultation skills) coming in years 3-4. There were some masters level requirements (e.g., management of community mental health programs) that were not part of formal coursework. So, while your plan isn't necessarily impossible, for it to work will take a lot of research and planning on your part, as well as some likely adaptation of the curriculum if it isn't a terminal masters. I'd encourage you to go online and look at the requirements for MA level licensing in any jurisdiction you are interested in working in, and then compare the educational requirements to the course sequence from any doctoral program you are looking at. That exercise should provide some ore objective evidence as to the legitimacy of your plan.

Thanks for your response! I agree its not impossible, but its true it's not financially logical and such as you mentioned it would take more time (3-4 years instead of 2)... I'd basically be a year away from my PsyD.

 

[emeyec]

If you want the option of being an MFT in case you decide not to finish a PsyD then you need to make sure the PsyD program you enter will prepare you for MFT licensing along the way. I have met a few people over the years that did this, but they remained and finished the PsyD. Getting the MFT license partway through gave them more employment options since PsyD programs are usually unfunded and quite expensive. You could also ask PsyD programs you're interested in if coming in with an MFT from elsewhere will allow you to waive some course work.

Now if the PsyD programs you're looking at don't provide an MFT option but have an MA option, then keep in mind not all MAs will prepare you to sit for the license exam. Quitting the program at that point could mean having a degree with very limited job options.

It seems like you should spend some time learning about the different employment options/limitations at the MA or MFT level and the PsyD level to help you figure out exactly what you want to do. Then look at what programs are available to help you get there.

I didn't realize some PsyD. programs prepare one for MFT licensing. Do you happen to know of the schools the people you've met went to who did this?

 

[Spydra]

I didn't realize some PsyD. programs prepare one for MFT licensing. Do you happen to know of the schools the people you've met went to who did this?

Not at the moment, but it'd be a good idea for you to ask about this when researching programs if it interests you.

 

[erg923]

Everyone knows exactly what they want to do and specific things they want to research and they seem whole heartedly in love with it where, me, I just enjoy learning about psychology and have a desire to relieve/aide suffering... so I guess I am sort of answering a part of my question

The thing is, almost any job that I can think of "relieve suffering," right? The plumber did that for me this weekend when he fixed a leaky pipe.

He uses psychology in his business marketing strategies.