Help: do I need to drop a program because of potential accreditation issues?

[Linuspauling42]

I'm in need of some Hail Mary assistance with only 2 days left before rank lists are submitted. One program I applied to - Johns Hopkins Bayview, has a board pass rate of 76. This is the lowest pass rate of any of my programs and unfortunately, I just found this out. Stupidly I didn't notice it in time to ask the program about it on interview day. My concern is that I've heard on here that this can (though not always?) cause a program to lose accreditation. All I know is that loss of accreditation is bad.

I've checked on their accreditation status and as of now they aren't on probation, but I and my wife have zero understanding of the accreditation process. (We are couples matching) E.g. I am not sure if not they could still potentially lose their accreditation next year or during my tenure as a resident, were I to go there.

Tldr - can anyone explain accreditation to me? / If a program is not on probation when you apply to them, are you safe in the sense that they are unlikely to lose it while you're a resident there?

Edit- board pass rate is 77. Didn't want to mislead.

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[rd31]

just rank it last then, done. no reason not to rank it at all.

 

[Linuspauling42]

Sorry yes I meant drop it down my list. Not remove it. I don't know how to edit. Other problem is that we liked the program so I don't particularly want to move it down to the bottom if this is not a big deal.

 

[chessknt]

Rank it how you want and don't put too much stress on this metric. You are confusing accrededation issues with hospital closure. The acgme will put a program on probation and expect them to work on improving deficits but you would still be abim elligible when you finished. A hospital closure leaves residents scurrying for positions in other places since you have to finish our 3 years somewhere to become abim elligible.

 

[Linuspauling42]

I see. So attending a program that gets put on probation during your time there does not adversely impact you the resident unless the program closes? And can a program just close? Or are there years of warning signs that would lead up to that?

Sorry if these are things I should know. We tried to look them up but couldn't find anything about this except for anecdotes about residents having programs shut down. Thanks for making clear that probation does not mean closure.

 

[Linuspauling42]

Also this is an example of something that got us confused. http://www.ohio.com/news/local/summ...emergency-medicine-residency-program-1.746245

It sounded like that program lost it's accreditation and was telling it's residents they had to find new positions because of that alone.

 

[Crayola227]

paging @aProgDirector

they seem to know best on how programs keep/lose accreditation

 

[NotAProgDirector]

While it is true that a program can lose accreditation for a low board pass rate, the ACGME will work hard with that program to help them improve. Hence, you really don't need to worry about the program closing over this. In order for the ACGME to actually close a program, there have to be systemic problems that are unaddressed / not fixed for many years. Certainly a board pass rate of 76% should make you somewhat concerned, simply because you'll want to pass the boards once you graduate.

 

[Molossers]

If you still want to drop it down your list just click the edit list button when you view your ROL on the NRMP website. Move stuff around just like you did before you certified and then save and re-certify when you're happy with the list.

 

[gutonc]

Also this is an example of something that got us confused. http://www.ohio.com/news/local/summ...emergency-medicine-residency-program-1.746245

It sounded like that program lost it's accreditation and was telling it's residents they had to find new positions because of that alone.

It got you confused because it's completely irrelevant to the situation at hand. Go read the relevant thread in the EM forum to learn what an enormous clusterf*** that Summa thing is.

Bayview isn't going to lose their accreditation anytime soon. Relax and rank it how you liked it.

 

[Crayola227]

Especially since you are couples matching, you should just rank this without worrying about accreditation, since those in the know say it's OK. Worry more about your partner and where you want to train.

As far as the board pass issue, if you match there, it would be worth looking at what the trend was before the one year (I believe data for the last 3 years is available? not sure), to see if this is systemic or a fluke. I don't know how big the program is, that can make a program more or less likely to have outlier board pass years.

If you match there, once you land there, I don't think it would be out of place to ask a senior (not the PD or Chief, I have my own reasons for believing that any question that can be be answered by a senior without going above them is best) what they think are the best strategies for board prep, because - this will likely open the discussion up to what the program is doing, which sorta brings up why are they doing it, which sorta brings up what went wrong before.

I know one program where it was pretty clear that the program philosophy was pretty anti-obsessing over Step scores, and it hurt the board pass rate immensely. They believed that the issue was not selecting good test takers.
To prove that good test takers would be adequately poised to pass boards through this program, they put a strict minimum on Step scores.

Other programs have other strategies for board success: Some give you study time for the boards, some do questions every day all program long, others assign pages to read and follow this up.....

I hate to say that some programs have blamed poor pass rates on IMGs.... suggesting that the AMGs passed but the others didn't.....

Board pass rates is a complex topic. It's not one to be auto-freaked about.

TLDR:
Don't worry accreditation just rank how you want.
There are differing reasons for low board pass rates, and different program responses.
It's not always a sign of your impending failure.
The good news is that there is a lot YOU can do to try to be in the majority that pass their boards, no matter where you go.
Board success is ultimately on you.

 

[Animalcules]

Hopkins Bayview is not going to close as long as it carries the Hopkins name. Even if their board pass rate was 50%, I would not worry. It likely tells you more about the residents than the program itself. Also, probably better you didn't bring it up during your interviews, may have hurt some feelings. But it is a concerning number. That said, I would not have it impact my ranking.

Edited due to poor typing on the fly

Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[Linuspauling42]

Animalcules - were you trying to say you wouldN'T have it impact ranking? Got a little confused reading your post, esp since it seemed contrary to the other advice given.

Thanks for the help everyone.

 

[Animalcules]

Animalcules - were you trying to say you wouldN'T have it impact ranking? Got a little confused reading your post, esp since it seemed contrary to the other advice given.

Thanks for the help everyone.

Yes sorry, was typing on way to clinic

 

[Linuspauling42]

Wow. Thanks for taking the time to answer even while rushing to clinic!

 

[rokshana]

its hopkins bayview...they are not going to close anytime soon.