Liatrus

Junior Member
10+ Year Member
Feb 11, 2005
5
0
Status
I cannot decide at all between ranking hopkins vs U penn first. I live in baltimore, which is a big plus for hopkins. I liked the residents/environment/program director better at penn--I definitely like being around warmer people. I am definitely scared of the first year at hopkins, which is a negative. Finally, I think Hopkins still has a better name--to the general public (don't know if it really makes that much difference in applying for a competitive fellowship over Penn, though). Any insight would be greatly appreciated, because my negatives and positives equal out.
 

doc05

2K Member
15+ Year Member
May 24, 2003
3,517
1,435
U.S.A.
Visit site
Status
sounds like you should rank Penn #1. Who the f-- cares what the public thinks?? Have you seen any physicians advertise where they did residency?? and more importantly, do you think it makes any difference?? Do you really think there is a single patient out there who would choose another physician over you because you "only" trained at Penn and not Hopkins??

and let's be realistic: there won't be any difference for fellowship placement.
 

Jamezuva

Have Faith
10+ Year Member
Aug 7, 2004
2,461
0
Never static
Status
Non-Student
I disagree. While Penn is close to Hopkins in terms of reputation, it does not equal it and it will affect your fellowship application at the most competitive fellowships. Fellowship directors obviously know more about the differences of reputation compared to the lay public, but especially outside of the east coast, it will help you more to have the Hopkins name over Penn. If you compare two candidates who are equal in all regards except for where they trained, who do you think the fellowship director is gonna pick?
 

Art Vandelay

Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Mar 22, 2001
75
0
Visit site
Status
Don't think it matters much in this case, but I met a resident at MGH who made an interesting point. They apply for fellowships soon after their intern year. He said, what is the difference between you and me? Exactly one year. Do you think I have been able to add much to my application for fellowship in that year? Other than the MGH name, I have added very little to what I did before residency.
Makes some sense.
 

Jamezuva

Have Faith
10+ Year Member
Aug 7, 2004
2,461
0
Never static
Status
Non-Student
Art Vandelay said:
Don't think it matters much in this case, but I met a resident at MGH who made an interesting point. They apply for fellowships soon after their intern year. He said, what is the difference between you and me? Exactly one year. Do you think I have been able to add much to my application for fellowship in that year? Other than the MGH name, I have added very little to what I did before residency.
Makes some sense.
contradictory much? ;) :smuggrin:
 

Art Vandelay

Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Mar 22, 2001
75
0
Visit site
Status
What do you mean by contradictory? Penn and Hopkins are both incredible training programs, so I don't think you can go wrong either way.
 

Cardsman

Junior Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Feb 9, 2005
19
0
Status
Art Vandelay said:
What do you mean by contradictory? Penn and Hopkins are both incredible training programs, so I don't think you can go wrong either way.
I'd go with your subjective feeling
 

Cardsman

Junior Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Feb 9, 2005
19
0
Status
Art Vandelay said:
What do you mean by contradictory? Penn and Hopkins are both incredible training programs, so I don't think you can go wrong either way.
I'd go with your subjective feeling - you'll be there for 3+ years & everything evens out in the wash
 

Jamezuva

Have Faith
10+ Year Member
Aug 7, 2004
2,461
0
Never static
Status
Non-Student
Art Vandelay said:
What do you mean by contradictory? Penn and Hopkins are both incredible training programs, so I don't think you can go wrong either way.
Well :laugh: ....you say there wouldn't be much of a difference but then go on to give an example of an MGH intern who says the name behind them will have been the only significant difference between him and other fellowship applicants. Now, it would be much less of an issue if we were comparing MGH vs. Hopkins, but are you implying that Penn's reputation equals that of Hopkins in the national reputation arena?
 

Art Vandelay

Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Mar 22, 2001
75
0
Visit site
Status
"but are you implying that Penn's reputation equals that of Hopkins in the national reputation arena?" .......well....yes, I think that's why I initially stated that it doesn't matter MUCH in this case. Key word being MUCH. Where would going to Hopkins get you that going to Penn couldn't?
 

Jamezuva

Have Faith
10+ Year Member
Aug 7, 2004
2,461
0
Never static
Status
Non-Student
Art Vandelay said:
"but are you implying that Penn's reputation equals that of Hopkins in the national reputation arena?" .......well....yes, I think that's why I initially stated that it doesn't matter MUCH in this case. Key word being MUCH. Where would going to Hopkins get you that going to Penn couldn't?
Ok...so let me just confirm this... Are you telling me that two interns who are applying to Sloan-Kettering for Heme/Onc or UCSF for GI or Cleveland Clinic for Cards, who are equivalent in all areas except that one is at Penn while one is at Hopkins have an EXACTLY EQUAL chance of landing that particular fellowship?
 

Art Vandelay

Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Mar 22, 2001
75
0
Visit site
Status
Not sure if your reading my posts correctly? I agree that Hopkins has a better rep. Maybe not as big of a difference as you seem to think. In your nice little scenario...I suppose the Hopkins resident wins. However, last I checked, CCF-Cards wasn't completely filled w/ Hopkins grads. I happen to think that you could get to the CCF or Sloan from Penn. Penn was one of the most impressive programs I visited. Clearly, you think I am way off on this....I GET IT!
 

cubby

Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Apr 29, 2004
79
1
Status
Just an observation, not to shift gears or anything...it seems Penn has been somewhat of a darling among this year's applicants, at least those who visit this forum. I don't recall reading any negative comments about Penn from anyone, which is a tribute to Dr. Bellini and the enthusiastic people that they attract to their program. I wonder how competitive of a match Penn will be this year?
 

April04

Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Nov 4, 2004
43
0
Status
cubby said:
Just an observation, not to shift gears or anything...it seems Penn has been somewhat of a darling among this year's applicants, at least those who visit this forum. I don't recall reading any negative comments about Penn from anyone, which is a tribute to Dr. Bellini and the enthusiastic people that they attract to their program. I wonder how competitive of a match Penn will be this year?
I think it will be as competitive as past years. someone who did her residency there told me that Penn is heavier on recruiting than other top programs because applicants seem to find Philadelphia less desirable than other cities. I thought that was kind of odd, but I do believe that location is a big deal for many applicants for many different reasons. I have gotten 2 encouraging post-interview correspondences from Penn, but places like MGH, Hopkins and so on have not contacted me. kind of interesting. Does that mean that Penn is not as good as JHU or MGH and so they need to recruit? I highly doubt it, like you said it is a testament to how great the PD is.

good luck to everyone.
 

Jamezuva

Have Faith
10+ Year Member
Aug 7, 2004
2,461
0
Never static
Status
Non-Student
Art Vandelay said:
Not sure if your reading my posts correctly? I agree that Hopkins has a better rep. Maybe not as big of a difference as you seem to think. In your nice little scenario...I suppose the Hopkins resident wins. However, last I checked, CCF-Cards wasn't completely filled w/ Hopkins grads. I happen to think that you could get to the CCF or Sloan from Penn. Penn was one of the most impressive programs I visited. Clearly, you think I am way off on this....I GET IT!
:laugh: I guess I was wrong for assuming you would pick out the implicits in my scenario. Obviously, people from Penn get into prestigious fellowships, what I'm saying is that if those two interns were vying for one spot, the Hopkins person would get it as you said.

As far as post-interview correspondence, I have read other people getting contact atleast by MGH. Plus, I think the Philly turn-off does exist because I doubt they would have gone to the trouble of showing that video of the city if it weren't atleast somewhat harder to attract the top candidates there.
 
OP
L

Liatrus

Junior Member
10+ Year Member
Feb 11, 2005
5
0
Status
Thanks for the input so far. Does anyone think it makes a difference that Penn has no golden weekends and Hopkins does? I'm not sure how much weight to give that, but I have definitely heard of people not ranking Penn first because of that. On the other hand, it is nice getting one day off every week. Also, has anyone heard of anyone being miserable at Hopkins? Lastly, is it strange that EVERYONE has gotten a very promising letter from Penn?
 

gwen

Senior Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
May 25, 2002
423
2
Visit site
Status
fyi - penn does have golden weekends and i have certainly heard of miserable hopkins residents. sounds like someone is trying really hard to make penn sound bad...newsflash - its not. do u really think penn is dying to get more candidates?



Liatrus said:
Thanks for the input so far. Does anyone think it makes a difference that Penn has no golden weekends and Hopkins does? I'm not sure how much weight to give that, but I have definitely heard of people not ranking Penn first because of that. On the other hand, it is nice getting one day off every week. Also, has anyone heard of anyone being miserable at Hopkins? Lastly, is it strange that EVERYONE has gotten a very promising letter from Penn?
 

ak1978

7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Dec 24, 2003
72
0
Visit site
Status
Resident [Any Field]
gwen said:
fyi - penn does have golden weekends and i have certainly heard of miserable hopkins residents. sounds like someone is trying really hard to make penn sound bad...newsflash - its not. do u really think penn is dying to get more candidates?
Are you sure? The residents there & one of my interviewers mentioned this as a negative. But I agree, this is really a minor point of contention.
 

ak1978

7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Dec 24, 2003
72
0
Visit site
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Liatrus said:
Lastly, is it strange that EVERYONE has gotten a very promising letter from Penn?
Are you talking about the post-interview letter or the email that they sent out less than a week ago?
 

beekinator

Junior Member
15+ Year Member
May 30, 2003
8
0
Visit site
Status
There appears to be some controversy about golden weekends at Penn - are there golden weekends at Penn as an intern? It seemed fairly clear to me from interview day that interns do not have them (unless we are talking about the 2 ambulatory months).

Thanks!
 

Jamezuva

Have Faith
10+ Year Member
Aug 7, 2004
2,461
0
Never static
Status
Non-Student
ak1978 said:
Are you talking about the post-interview letter or the email that they sent out less than a week ago?
post-interview letter....as i know not everyone got the email
 

April04

Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Nov 4, 2004
43
0
Status
everyone got the letter, but it is unlikely that everyone got the email. the email was very specific regarding Penn's feelings toward the candidate. i can't imagine that everyone got it....there are about 300 interviewees. maybe a 100 people got it, but who knows. nothing would surprise me.
 
OP
L

Liatrus

Junior Member
10+ Year Member
Feb 11, 2005
5
0
Status
From my interview, it was very clear that (at least as an intern) at Penn you do not have golden weekends. The intern I spoke to said their only complaint was the golden weekend issue. And from many I spoke to on the interview trail, that was the only reason they would not rank it first. In terms of letter vs email from Penn, it seems that everyone at least received a letter implying that he/she was very liked at the interview. I think the program director is amazingly nice, but I just think it would be interesting if someone receives such promising letters and does not get in. Is that really any different than programs being upset when applicants say they are ranking them number one and don't match (when the program ranks them to match) ? Finally, in response to one person's thread, no, I do not think penn is at all dying for applicants, nor did I imply that. I think one who matches at Penn is extremely lucky. You just get to splitting hairs when you begin to rank some of these programs, and that is what I am doing.
 

jayjay1978

Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Aug 16, 2004
35
0
Status
It has been my own personal experience as well as many others' that, if you are happy at where you are (penn or hopkins), then your chances of doing well in residency is higher. That is to say if you are going to be happier at Penn and will perform better there, your chances of getting a fellowship will probably be better. Most people who are on top of the pack in terms of what they do are happy people who enjoy what they are doing and where they are doing it.
 

gwen

Senior Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
May 25, 2002
423
2
Visit site
Status
well, my boyfriend was an IM intern last year at Penn and i know that he had golden weekends.
 

April04

Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Nov 4, 2004
43
0
Status
gwen said:
well, my boyfriend was an IM intern last year at Penn and i know that he had golden weekends.
Penn was pretty clear about no "golden weekends" at least for the 2005-2006 intern class. maybe they have changed it since your boyfriend was an intern last year. I

Interview days are confusing but I am sure that Penn has no golden weekends. In fact, some interviewees were commenting on how having no golden weekends would stop them from ranking Penn #1.