HELP! Johns Hopkins or Harvard for Epi??

[sarajevo]

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I'm trying to decide between JHU's MSPH in Global Disease Epidemiology and Control program vs. Harvard's SM2 in Epidemiology.

I am yet undecided what field of epidemiology I would like to pursue, though I was initially leaning towards neuropsychiatric epidemiology. Could someone tell me the pros and cons of each program?

Also, for Hopkins, it seems that an additional 32 academic credits are required while doing the practicum. But if you're not on campus does that mean you have to take those courses online??

 

[KPZ]

You definitely have a tough choice that I would love to have as that is my intended field and both are leaders in that area. Honestly I'd almost say it comes down to cost (both tuition and cost of living) between those two as they are both top notch and really either will be a great choice. Also take a look at what the professors are doing to see if your research interests are similar, but I doubt you'll have much trouble finding someone with either of those schools. Harvard will let you specialize in neuropsych whereas it sounds like you chose the global specialization at JHU. Johns Hopkins did give me the perception that they were more focused on mental health/psych than Harvard in general as far as research funding. I'd take a look at the curriculum for each and decide which sounds better to you. Maybe also ask what types of practicums and jobs students in each program end up doing, and ask about global opportunities if that's important to you. I'd also recommend visiting as well if you have the opportunity. Sometimes getting a "feel" for the school in person is all it takes. Good luck!

 

[sarajevo]

You definitely have a tough choice that I would love to have as that is my intended field and both are leaders in that area. Honestly I'd almost say it comes down to cost (both tuition and cost of living) between those two as they are both top notch and really either will be a great choice. Also take a look at what the professors are doing to see if your research interests are similar, but I doubt you'll have much trouble finding someone with either of those schools. Harvard will let you specialize in neuropsych whereas it sounds like you chose the global specialization at JHU. Johns Hopkins did give me the perception that they were more focused on mental health/psych than Harvard in general as far as research funding. I'd take a look at the curriculum for each and decide which sounds better to you. Maybe also ask what types of practicums and jobs students in each program end up doing, and ask about global opportunities if that's important to you. I'd also recommend visiting as well if you have the opportunity. Sometimes getting a "feel" for the school in person is all it takes. Good luck!

Yes, I initially wanted to apply to the epidemiology department at Hopkins, but I didn't meet the eligibility criteria because I hadn't taken microbiology in college.

Some comments I got from others is that the Hopkins program offers more breadth, while the Harvard one more depth. As a person who only has a bachelor's in biology, I'm thinking it may be wiser to build up more specialized skillsets, but the global focus of the Hopkins program seems attractive as well. There isn't a secondary concentration option for global health at Harvard, but perhaps the requirements of my main concentration will already be rigorous enough.

Also, what are your thoughts on doing a practicum vs. doing a thesis for the second year? Hopkins requires a practicum, and Harvard requires a thesis.

And what specific aspects of neuropsychiatric epidemiology are you interested in? I was really drawn to this area and the topics covered in the field seemed interesting, but in truth I don't really know much about the specifics of how research / field work is conducted in the area. And I'm wondering how other fields of epidemiology are different in terms of methodology, and if it is hard to switch over to a different one if I decide it isn't for me in the future.

 

[Stories]

Consider location as well. I personally think that Boston is a nicer place to live than Baltimore (although I never loved Boston). But Boston is quite a bit more expensive than Baltimore. If you like DC, that's a perk for Baltimore since it's a short train, bus, or drive away. Baltimore gets hot and humid in summer. Boston gets cold and wet in winter.

 

[KPZ]

Yes, I initially wanted to apply to the epidemiology department at Hopkins, but I didn't meet the eligibility criteria because I hadn't taken microbiology in college.

Some comments I got from others is that the Hopkins program offers more breadth, while the Harvard one more depth. As a person who only has a bachelor's in biology, I'm thinking it may be wiser to build up more specialized skillsets, but the global focus of the Hopkins program seems attractive as well. There isn't a secondary concentration option for global health at Harvard, but perhaps the requirements of my main concentration will already be rigorous enough.

Also, what are your thoughts on doing a practicum vs. doing a thesis for the second year? Hopkins requires a practicum, and Harvard requires a thesis.

And what specific aspects of neuropsychiatric epidemiology are you interested in? I was really drawn to this area and the topics covered in the field seemed interesting, but in truth I don't really know much about the specifics of how research / field work is conducted in the area. And I'm wondering how other fields of epidemiology are different in terms of methodology, and if it is hard to switch over to a different one if I decide it isn't for me in the future.

I think Hopkins offering breadth vs Harvard with depth is true to a point, but you'll receive excellent training at both.

It depends on what you want to do. The practicum gives you the opportunity to get work experience, the thesis research experience. The thesis is a pro if you plan on going onto a PhD, but you'll get research experience at both places.

I've gravitating towards biomarkers of severe mental illness, but the future is wide open right now. I think you can probably switch between "specialties" because it's generally the same skillset, but I'm really not an expert (yet).

 

[sarajevo]

I think Hopkins offering breadth vs Harvard with depth is true to a point, but you'll receive excellent training at both.

It depends on what you want to do. The practicum gives you the opportunity to get work experience, the thesis research experience. The thesis is a pro if you plan on going onto a PhD, but you'll get research experience at both places.

I've gravitating towards biomarkers of severe mental illness, but the future is wide open right now. I think you can probably switch between "specialties" because it's generally the same skillset, but I'm really not an expert (yet).

Awesome! I focused on neuroscience as a biology major in college so that was an interesting topic for me as well. I'm wondering how much wet lab work is involved in epi though. I developed allergies over time from wearing latex gloves too much. Hope that doesn't become a problem! 🙁

I'm also concerned about how far just a master's degree in epidemiology would take me. I don't have a medical degree, just a bachelor's in biology, and I don't know how much of an expert I will be able to become in just two years!

Epidemiology isn't a very developed field in my country, so I'm not very informed about the different types of careers I'll be able to pursue besides academia. I'm also kind of confused about the distinction between pursuing "fieldwork" and "research". Fieldwork just seems like a component of research to me. Would entering academia severely limit opportunities for fieldwork and vice versa?

Another question - would getting an academic-focused degree like an MS or PhD be a minus if trying to find employment compared to degrees like MPH and DrPH? Looking at the profiles of faculty they don't seem to matter much - they seem to have a mix of the four! I couldn't pinpoint big differences in their research projects either, so I'm confused if there even is a big difference between the degrees. Though in the case of 1-year MPH programs, they do seem too fast-paced for people who don't have work experience/post-bachelor degrees.

 

[KPZ]

Awesome! I focused on neuroscience as a biology major in college so that was an interesting topic for me as well. I'm wondering how much wet lab work is involved in epi though. I developed allergies over time from wearing latex gloves too much. Hope that doesn't become a problem! 🙁

I'm also concerned about how far just a master's degree in epidemiology would take me. I don't have a medical degree, just a bachelor's in biology, and I don't know how much of an expert I will be able to become in just two years!

Epidemiology isn't a very developed field in my country, so I'm not very informed about the different types of careers I'll be able to pursue besides academia. I'm also kind of confused about the distinction between pursuing "fieldwork" and "research". Fieldwork just seems like a component of research to me. Would entering academia severely limit opportunities for fieldwork and vice versa?

Another question - would getting an academic-focused degree like an MS or PhD be a minus if trying to find employment compared to degrees like MPH and DrPH? Looking at the profiles of faculty they don't seem to matter much - they seem to have a mix of the four! I couldn't pinpoint big differences in their research projects either, so I'm confused if there even is a big difference between the degrees. Though in the case of 1-year MPH programs, they do seem too fast-paced for people who don't have work experience/post-bachelor degrees.

There is pretty much 0 wet lab work in epi unless you actively seek it, which is what's so attractive about it to me me as well! I am considering medical school but thought I would try this out first because I'm a good thinker but extremely clumsy and just awful when it comes to lab work. I'm sure this is a skill I can develop but it's not something I really like doing. 😵

Where are you from? The terminology is definitely confusing, because epidemiology itself is research! But the difference between "fieldwork" and "academic research" is first off, obviously the employer. It's the difference between working somewhere like the CDC or WHO and studying population data to implement actual public health outcomes through political policy and doing very similar work at a university, but more along the lines of "research for research's sake," though obviously these studies are leveraged in a wide variety of situations. Another potential employer would be pharma companies, and you'd use data there to study the outcomes of the drugs they are developing. There are also a lot of different ways you can go with epidemiology depending on additional training and also just what you want to do, like clinical research. Going into one isn't going to limit your opportunities with the other beyond just the connections you develop, because the skill sets are similar. If you go into fieldwork you could apply to PhD programs and go into academia, but you would still need some academic research experience and that is why doing academic research at the masters level would give you more leverage for the PhD programs. If you go into academic research and do not do a practicum, you could probably almost always transition into fieldwork, but you'll probably have less contacts in that area and it might be more difficult to find an "in" at a place where you want to work.

MS and PhD are "research" degrees and MPH and DrPH are "professional" degrees, so picking one of each is the way a lot of people go. You will have very pretty much the same job opportunities between an MSPH and an MPH, the only difference is that the MSPH is probably going to have a couple of more technical classes and the MPH is probably going to have more general of a base. I come from business so I look at it as the difference between an MBA (taking some of all of the disciplines so you can make holistic decisions and concentrating a bit more in one area) versus an MSBA (technical business/data analysis, not really making management decisions). That may or may not help the way you think about it. However, the MSPH and MPH are a LOT more similar than an MBA and an MSBA.

 

[sarajevo]

There is pretty much 0 wet lab work in epi unless you actively seek it, which is what's so attractive about it to me me as well! I am considering medical school but thought I would try this out first because I'm a good thinker but extremely clumsy and just awful when it comes to lab work. I'm sure this is a skill I can develop but it's not something I really like doing. 😵

Where are you from? The terminology is definitely confusing, because epidemiology itself is research! But the difference between "fieldwork" and "academic research" is first off, obviously the employer. It's the difference between working somewhere like the CDC or WHO and studying population data to implement actual public health outcomes through political policy and doing very similar work at a university, but more along the lines of "research for research's sake," though obviously these studies are leveraged in a wide variety of situations. Another potential employer would be pharma companies, and you'd use data there to study the outcomes of the drugs they are developing. There are also a lot of different ways you can go with epidemiology depending on additional training and also just what you want to do, like clinical research. Going into one isn't going to limit your opportunities with the other beyond just the connections you develop, because the skill sets are similar. If you go into fieldwork you could apply to PhD programs and go into academia, but you would still need some academic research experience and that is why doing academic research at the masters level would give you more leverage for the PhD programs. If you go into academic research and do not do a practicum, you could probably almost always transition into fieldwork, but you'll probably have less contacts in that area and it might be more difficult to find an "in" at a place where you want to work.

MS and PhD are "research" degrees and MPH and DrPH are "professional" degrees, so picking one of each is the way a lot of people go. You will have very pretty much the same job opportunities between an MSPH and an MPH, the only difference is that the MSPH is probably going to have a couple of more technical classes and the MPH is probably going to have more general of a base. I come from business so I look at it as the difference between an MBA (taking some of all of the disciplines so you can make holistic decisions and concentrating a bit more in one area) versus an MSBA (technical business/data analysis, not really making management decisions). That may or may not help the way you think about it. However, the MSPH and MPH are a LOT more similar than an MBA and an MSBA.

Wow thank you so much! That really answers a lot of questions I had.

I'm from Korea, and there seems to be a very small number of professors who are even doing epi at universities. Most of them seem to have MDs as well. Public health schools in general tend to be very small scale. I had to explain what epidemiology is to pretty much everyone around me who isn't a professor or a doctor haha...

 

[KPZ]

Wow thank you so much! That really answers a lot of questions I had.

I'm from Korea, and there seems to be a very small number of professors who are even doing epi at universities. Most of them seem to have MDs as well. Public health schools in general tend to be very small scale. I had to explain what epidemiology is to pretty much everyone around me who isn't a professor or a doctor haha...

You're welcome! It's a lot like that here, too, with the general population. Epidemiology is kind of a niche field. Good luck on your decision, you really can't go wrong!!

 

[Stories]

Wow thank you so much! That really answers a lot of questions I had.

I'm from Korea, and there seems to be a very small number of professors who are even doing epi at universities. Most of them seem to have MDs as well. Public health schools in general tend to be very small scale. I had to explain what epidemiology is to pretty much everyone around me who isn't a professor or a doctor haha...

I've met a few Koreans from 서울대 (Seoul National), 연대 (Yonsei), and 국립암센터 (National Cancer Center) in my conference travels. They always seem pretty enthusiastic about their work--although you're right, compared to the Japanese and Chinese, there's comparatively fewer Koreans involved in epi research. I had several colleagues at NIH that were all 서울대 graduates, though, so there is at least some sort of work that leads to fellowships elsewhere. Although I think the majority of students all get graduate degrees abroad (usually in US).

In my time studying, I meet many fellow Koreans. although it's mostly Korean Americans. A place like UCLA is also a good option for Koreans as culturally, it's very familiar in many areas and Koreans live everywhere all over LA. I love living in LA, and most of my friends here also seem to be Korean, as well. Go figure.

 

[sarajevo]

I've met a few Koreans from 서울대 (Seoul National), 연대 (Yonsei), and 국립암센터 (National Cancer Center) in my conference travels. They always seem pretty enthusiastic about their work--although you're right, compared to the Japanese and Chinese, there's comparatively fewer Koreans involved in epi research. I had several colleagues at NIH that were all 서울대 graduates, though, so there is at least some sort of work that leads to fellowships elsewhere. Although I think the majority of students all get graduate degrees abroad (usually in US).

In my time studying, I meet many fellow Koreans. although it's mostly Korean Americans. A place like UCLA is also a good option for Koreans as culturally, it's very familiar in many areas and Koreans live everywhere all over LA. I love living in LA, and most of my friends here also seem to be Korean, as well. Go figure.

Thank you for the info! I hope getting an epidemiology degree in the US will open up more opportunities for me as well.

I would love to live on the west coast, especially since I really hate cold weather, but it seems like UC schools give very strong preference to Cali residents and US citizens. I also couldn't understand why they would charge extra for the application fee if you weren't a US citizen (it was $110, plus I had to pay an additional $45 for SOPHAS processing).

I am also wondering about whether to get a PhD after my master's.... Most of my professors and everyone at the institute I'm interning at seem to think it's a must. I did enjoy research though handling and maintaining rats in biology experiments was quite stressful (fingers crossed I'll never have to work with them again!), so I'm open to the idea. Plus, I only have a bachelor's degree in biology atm. I don't know what opportunities there would be with just a master's degree, but I feel I might need a more advanced degree to launch a sucessful career.

Do you think it is better to pursue a PhD straight from earning a master's? I'm wondering if applying to a PhD program at the same school I earn my master's would make it easier to gain admission (relocation would be a hassle), and also if some work experience prior to pursuing a PhD would be a better decision as that would help define what kind of research I'd like to do over such an extended period.

 

[KPZ]

Thank you for the info! I hope getting an epidemiology degree in the US will open up more opportunities for me as well.

I would love to live on the west coast, especially since I really hate cold weather, but it seems like UC schools give very strong preference to Cali residents and US citizens. I also couldn't understand why they would charge extra for the application fee if you weren't a US citizen (it was $110, plus I had to pay an additional $45 for SOPHAS processing).

I am also wondering about whether to get a PhD after my master's.... Most of my professors and everyone at the institute I'm interning at seem to think it's a must. I did enjoy research though handling and maintaining rats in biology experiments was quite stressful (fingers crossed I'll never have to work with them again!), so I'm open to the idea. Plus, I only have a bachelor's degree in biology atm. I don't know what opportunities there would be with just a master's degree, but I feel I might need a more advanced degree to launch a sucessful career.

Do you think it is better to pursue a PhD straight from earning a master's? I'm wondering if applying to a PhD program at the same school I earn my master's would make it easier to gain admission (relocation would be a hassle), and also if some work experience prior to pursuing a PhD would be a better decision as that would help define what kind of research I'd like to do over such an extended period.

Depending on the school, a lot of them (like Emory comes to mind) want 2 years post-masters experience prior to the PhD. You can find jobs without a PhD. It depends on what the school lets you do (in terms of if you're at a school that will let you go straight into the PhD and possibly even knock out the 2nd yr masters tuition) and what your goals are. Being and international student, though, you have to keep your awareness up and keep assessing the situation if your goal is to stay in the US. For example, if you really want to be on the west coast, that's where you should try to do your practicum. If you think you can get a job on the west coast upon graduation based on your practicum experience, then you might want to go straight to work. If job prospects are looking iffy, then you might want to stick it out and go straight into the PhD.