Help me build a curriculum comparison list:

[grasshopper]

I'm wondering if I can develop a thread listing a bunch of schools and their "degree of PBL" (as opposed to lecture)as well as their grading system. For "degree of PBL", let's say 5 is most PBL (Harvard I think? Cornell maybe?), 1 completely lectures (WashU, perhaps Columbia?) (I know this is very opinion based, but let's give it a shot). And grading systems vary, but I'm interested in ABC grade vs. HP/P/F vs. P/F, etc. and whether it changes through the years. Current med students could also be helpful in developing this list. I don't know much, but I'll list a few that I'm interested in and ya'll can (please) rank their PBLness and give insight about grading:

Columbia
Northwestern (PBL level: 4)
Stanford
Yale (P/F grading)
Harvard
Duke
Pitt
Penn
Washington (PBL level: 1)
UMich
Harvard
Cornell
Baylor

Please share your insight and add more schools!

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[Ai]

I like this topic, but unfortunately I don't have much to add. I do think that Hawaii is full PBL though. Not sure about grading there...

 

[Wahoo]

I like this thread idea... Adding my thoughts, a couple more schools, and some alphabetization.

Baylor
Berkeley (PBL 5)
Case Western (PBL 4) (HP/P/F)
Columbia
Cornell
Dartmouth (PBL 1)
Duke
Harvard
Northwestern (PBL 4)
Penn
Pitt (PBL 4) (HP/P/F)
Stanford (P/F)
UCSF (PBL 3)
UMich
UVA (PBL 1) (ABC)
Washington (PBL 1)
Yale (P/F)

 

[katiep]

Adding Columbia grading:

Baylor
Berkeley (PBL 5)
Case Western (PBL 4) (HP/P/F)
Columbia (HP/P/F)
Cornell
Dartmouth (PBL 1)
Duke
Harvard
Northwestern (PBL 4)
Penn
Pitt (PBL 4) (HP/P/F)
Stanford (P/F)
UCSF (PBL 3)
UMich
UVA (PBL 1) (ABC)
Washington (PBL 1)
Yale (P/F)

 

[AmateurChef]

Excellent idea for this thread!!! I have a little chart of this info for the schools I applied to, but it's at work. I'll find some time tomorrow to add it.

 

[grasshopper]

Thanks for liking my thread, guys. I feel like I could have done all these schools (filled out this info, I mean) right after I interviewed there (I haven't interviewed all those places I listed, but lots of them), but I've since gotten places all jumbled up in my mind. The moral: please return here right after interviews if you're yet to interview and fill out what you can. Thanks!

 

[reesie0726]

I also really like this thread. After visiting different schools, you can kind of forget. I know I did. Well, I will add Howard.

Originally posted by katiep:
•Adding Columbia grading:

Baylor
Berkeley (PBL 5)
Case Western (PBL 4) (HP/P/F)
Columbia (HP/P/F)
Cornell
Dartmouth (PBL 1)
Duke
Harvard
Howard (PBL 1 & A,B,C)
Northwestern (PBL 4)
Penn
Pitt (PBL 4) (HP/P/F)
Stanford (P/F)
UCSF (PBL 3)
UMich
UVA (PBL 1) (ABC)
Washington (PBL 1)
Yale (P/F)•••

 

[Weeble]

Baylor
Berkeley (PBL 5)
Case Western (PBL 4) (HP/P/F)
Columbia (HP/P/F)
Cornell
Dartmouth (PBL 1)
Duke
Harvard
Howard (PBL 1 & A,B,C)
Northwestern (PBL 4)
Penn
Pitt (PBL 4) (HP/P/F)
Stanford (P/F)
UCSD (PBL 2) (HP/P/F) (1st yr, 1st quarter, P/F)
UCSF (PBL 3)
UMich
UVA (PBL 1) (ABC)
Washington (PBL 1)
Yale (P/F)

 

[UCLA2000]

Adding Penn: If you don't know about curriculum 2000 at Penn you're missing out. Only 1.5 yrs book work. Early clinical exposure. Penn rules.


Baylor
Berkeley (PBL 5)
Case Western (PBL 4) (HP/P/F)
Columbia (HP/P/F)
Cornell
Dartmouth (PBL 1)
Duke
Harvard
Howard (PBL 1 & A,B,C)
Northwestern (PBL 4)
Penn (PBL 4-5) H/P/F (1st qtr P/F
Pitt (PBL 4) (HP/P/F)
Stanford (P/F)
UCSD (PBL 2) (HP/P/F) (1st yr, 1st quarter, P/F)
UCSF (PBL 3)
UMich
UVA (PBL 1) (ABC)
Washington (PBL 1)
Yale (P/F)

 

[gooseHC]

Okay I don't mean to seem completely ignorant..because I should know, but PBL stands for...???

 

[DJ W.R.]

Originally posted by gooseHC:
•Okay I don't mean to seem completely ignorant..because I should know, but PBL stands for...???•••

Problem-Based Learning

 

[gooseHC]

yeah I should have known that..thanks for the translation though!

 

[gobears]

I thought Case Western was strictly pass/fail. The list says it's HP/P/F. Anyone know for sure?

 

[mma]

Hey Folks,

Baylor has 1.5 years of bookwork and 2.5 clinical, like Penn...

Baylor (PBL 3?) (P/F first semester, H/HP/P/MP/F else)
Berkeley (PBL 5)
Case Western (PBL 4) (HP/P/F)
Columbia (HP/P/F)
Cornell
Dartmouth (PBL 1)
Duke
Harvard
Howard (PBL 1 & A,B,C)
Northwestern (PBL 4)
Penn (PBL 4-5) H/P/F (1st qtr P/F
Pitt (PBL 4) (HP/P/F)
Stanford (P/F)
UCSD (PBL 2) (HP/P/F) (1st yr, 1st quarter, P/F)
UCSF (PBL 3)
UMich
UVA (PBL 1) (ABC)
Washington (PBL 1)
Yale (P/F)

 

[Jalby]

CW is P/NP.

 

[Original]

Duke is 11 months bookwork, followed by 13 months on the wards, followed by 1 yr of your own design, and then 4th yr on the wards of some hospital in the US or elsewhere.

Baylor (PBL 3?) (P/F first semester, H/HP/P/MP/F else)
Berkeley (PBL 5)
Case Western (PBL 4) (HP/P/F)
Columbia (HP/P/F)
Cornell
Dartmouth (PBL 1)
Duke (PBL 2?; grading=H/P/F)
Harvard
Howard (PBL 1 & A,B,C)
Northwestern (PBL 4)
Penn (PBL 4-5) H/P/F (1st qtr P/F
Pitt (PBL 4) (HP/P/F)
Stanford (P/F)
UCSD (PBL 2) (HP/P/F) (1st yr, 1st quarter, P/F)
UCSF (PBL 3)
UMich
UVA (PBL 1) (ABC)
Washington (PBL 1)
Yale (P/F)[/QB][/QUOTE]

 

[Wahoo]

Oops, guess I was confused about Case Western's grading system. It's a good thing I've got this thread to straighten me out.

Baylor (PBL 3?) (P/F first semester, H/HP/P/MP/F else)
Berkeley (PBL 5)
Case Western (PBL 4) (P/F)
Columbia (HP/P/F)
Cornell
Dartmouth (PBL 1)
Duke (PBL 2?; grading=H/P/F)
Harvard
Howard (PBL 1 & A,B,C)
Northwestern (PBL 4)
Penn (PBL 4-5) H/P/F (1st qtr P/F
Pitt (PBL 4) (HP/P/F)
Stanford (P/F)
UCSD (PBL 2) (HP/P/F) (1st yr, 1st quarter, P/F)
UCSF (PBL 3)
UMich
UVA (PBL 1) (ABC)
Washington (PBL 1)
Yale (P/F)

 

[Scooby Doo]

Feel free to add on more schools...Is "Berkeley" meant to be the joint program??

Baylor (PBL 3?) (P/F first semester, H/HP/P/MP/F else)
Berkeley (PBL 5)
Case Western (PBL 4) (P/F)
Columbia (HP/P/F)
Cornell
Dartmouth (PBL 1)
Duke (PBL 2?; grading=H/P/F)
Harvard
Howard (PBL 1 & A,B,C)
Mount Sinai (PBL ?) (P/F); (H/P/F Rotations)
Northwestern (PBL 4)
NYU (P/F)
Penn (PBL 4-5) H/P/F (1st qtr P/F
Pitt (PBL 4) (HP/P/F)
Stanford (P/F)
UCSD (PBL 2) (HP/P/F) (1st yr, 1st quarter, P/F)
UCSF (PBL 3)
USC (P/F)
UMich
UVA (PBL 1) (ABC)
Vanderbilt (H/HP/P/MP/F (I believe))
WashU (PBL 1)
Yale (P/F); (H/P/F Rotations)

 

[CoffeeCat]

thank you! What exactly is "berkeley"?

 

[pcl]

i think Vandy is A-E, not High pass, etc...
at least it was last year...

 

[EpiII]

Adding UCI and UCLA

Baylor (PBL 3?) (P/F first semester, H/HP/P/MP/F else)
Berkeley (PBL 5)
Case Western (PBL 4) (P/F)
Columbia (HP/P/F)
Cornell
Dartmouth (PBL 1)
Duke (PBL 2?; grading=H/P/F)
Harvard
Howard (PBL 1 & A,B,C)
Mount Sinai (PBL ?) (P/F); (H/P/F Rotations)
Northwestern (PBL 4)
NYU (P/F)
Penn (PBL 4-5) H/P/F (1st qtr P/F
Pitt (PBL 4) (HP/P/F)
Stanford (P/F)
UC Irvine (PBL 2) (HP/P/F)
UCLA (PBL 2)
UCSD (PBL 2) (HP/P/F) (1st yr, 1st quarter, P/F)
UCSF (PBL 3)
USC (P/F)
UMich
UVA (PBL 1) (ABC)
Vanderbilt (H/HP/P/MP/F (I believe))
WashU (PBL 1)
Yale (P/F); (H/P/F Rotations)

 

[UCLA2000]

adding ucla grading basis...wasn't there.Baylor (PBL 3?) (P/F first semester, H/HP/P/MP/F else)
Berkeley (PBL 5)
Case Western (PBL 4) (P/F)
Columbia (HP/P/F)
Cornell
Dartmouth (PBL 1)
Duke (PBL 2?; grading=H/P/F)
Harvard
Howard (PBL 1 & A,B,C)
Mount Sinai (PBL ?) (P/F); (H/P/F Rotations)
Northwestern (PBL 4)
NYU (P/F)
Penn (PBL 4-5) H/P/F (1st qtr P/F
Pitt (PBL 4) (HP/P/F)
Stanford (P/F)
UC Irvine (PBL 2) (HP/P/F)
UCLA (PBL 3) (P/F)
UCSD (PBL 2) (HP/P/F) (1st yr, 1st quarter, P/F)
UCSF (PBL 3)
USC (P/F)
UMich
UVA (PBL 1) (ABC)
Vanderbilt (H/HP/P/MP/F (I believe))
WashU (PBL 1)
Yale (P/F); (H/P/F Rotations)

 

[Wahoo]

Originally posted by CoffeeCat:
•thank you! What exactly is "berkeley"?•••

Yes, the Joint Medical Program. 3 years at UC Berkeley in an entirely problem based, 12 person program. Then 2 years of clinical rotations at UCSF. You graduate with an MD from UCSF and a master's from Berkeley.

 

[postbacchus]

To me, there seem to be roughly 3 types of programs: Traditional, PBL, and Organ system. Early (first 2 years) clinical experience is also important for me. From my experience, here is what I got from various interviews:

Tulane - mixed PBL and traditional. H/HP/P/Conditional Pass/F. Decent early patient experience.
Case Western - Organ system, some PBL. P/NP. Fantastic early pt experience (best I've seen)
UCSF - Organ sysem, some PBL. P/NP. Good early pt experience.
UCSD - Traditional. P/NP for first quarter, then P/NP. Some early pt experience.
Hopkins - Very Traditional. Grades. Limited early pt experience.

 

[pre-hawkdoc]

can anyone make a distinction between traditional grading (ABC...) and modified (H/HP/P...)? as far as i can tell, schools try to pass off modified grading as being less "competitive" than traditional grading schools, but doesn't:
A=honors
B=high pass
C=pass
D=low pass
F=fail
seem to make sense (ie. no different than what we're used to)? just wondering if i'm missing something...

 

[tonem]

Hate to quibble but Pitt isn't quite 4 its more like a 3 PBL. H/P/F 1st two years then H/HP/P/LP/F 3rd and 4th year

 

[Dylann FMD]

Yeah, I hate to quibble too, but Case is definitely not a 4 in PBL. Its very organ system based, but the PBL is more like a 2 or 3. They only really have PBL one or two days a week. It is pass/fail for the first two years, then honors/pass/fail.